Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[Seastallion]

yes your wife is perfect... happy now? let's back away from your perfect life and back on topic?

Thank you. She's beautiful, too.

If I had not said she was my wife, but "a friend I know", you may actually have appreciated her for what she is.

Try not to show too much resentment. I guess bar girls or English student gold-diggers don't quite measure up. Not my fault. Try and mix in better company.

My point, is that there are indeed some intelligent, dedicated, hard-working Thai English teachers. "My friend" that I mentioned exemplifies that.

The other point is the problem with the rest of the teachers is that they have no desire to improve or change. They have their certificate, they get their salary, so why should they bother to try harder or to learn more to be able to be better teachers?

What is needed is incentive. What the government saves in high foreign worker's salaries should not be "saved" but diverted to qualified Thais. And I mean qualified in every sense of the word, including having the right attitude.

[Seastallion]

The problems facing the Thai education system apply to all subjects taught, not just English. Thai students generally are appalling at Maths, Science, History, Chinese, Japanese, Management, Engineering, Economics, Politics... even literacy levels for Thai language are poor.

Thai culture does not value knowledge, critical thinking and hard work, nor does it operate as a meritocracy. Without drastic reform of Thai society and its values as a whole, then any meaningful educational reform is almost impossible.

With this in mind, I don't think it makes much difference whether there are a million native speakers teaching English or zero.

I don't know about that. I teach M4 maths in the SME program. These kids are doing well, and their grasp of this level of maths keeps me on my toes all the time.

My first lesson, I tried a mental excercise with them; Picture in your mind a circle with it's centre at (-3, -2) and cuts the y axis at (0, -6) and the x axis at (a, 0). What is the value of a? One guy almost immediately saw the 3-4-5 triangle in his head and worked out the radius was 5, but was slow to get the rest. Others didn't do it in their heads, but came up with the right answer from their quick sketches alone. Impressive.

[harness]

Most Thai teachers resent the fact that foreign teachers get a lot better salary than they do and that the foreigners' presence shows up their low English skills.

This situation will soon be a thing of the past and will be popular with most Thai teachers.

Parents with money will still be able to send their kids to private language centres.

The govt will save a lot of money this way and might even be able to afford another submarine or missile system.

Another sign in my opinion that Thailand is headed in a new direction......away from the West and its inappropriate value systems.

[scorecard]

Back to the OP.

I wonder what levels of students the 'new' Thai teachers will teach?

(Not the main point here, but I also wonder:

- How much Thai language will be used by the new Thai English teachers to teach English, and my guess is quite a lot, therefore the time spent to 'force' immersion into English conversation will be low.

- Whether other teachers will try to derail the English teaching. Don't laugh, I've seen it, especially at one university, where many of the Thai professors (mostly older female teachers) got angry in the teachers room when those who spoke English / some English tried to converse with the foreign professors in English. One comment heard regularly (in Thai): 'This is Thailand, speak Thai! On one occasion a notice about a teachers meeting posted in the teachers lunch room, typed in Thai and English, was publicly taken down by a very loud obnoxious Thai professor, she tore off the English paragraphs then put the notice back on the wall.)

Back to levels;

I sincerely hope this new approach includes two groups of students and includes the new teachers having the specific skills for:

1. Kindergarten and early primary kids, with teaching pedagogy which is suitable for this age group and has a specific objective (perhaps similar to the Philippines where the aim is to get kids speaking advanced English by the end of P3, so that they can study most subjects in English.) And with an aim for Thailand that this is compulsory for every school / every student. And with organized extra curriculum activities to gain more practice.

2. Older students, again with teachers having the specific skills for teenagers, etc. Again with well structured practice sessions.

Edited November 14, 2015 by scorecard

[jerojero]

Un<deleted>Believable

[z42]

But the real problems what THAT I can see ...

So much for your CELTA, DELTA and other bum-wipe qualifications ...

Ok Mr Fixit, great name by the way, why only pick out one of my mistakes mate? You will see at the bottom that I wrote "withing" instead of "wishing". How about add something of note to the topic instead of penning such a dross attempt at humour. This is a public forum, not a writing competition. I don't care if I make 1 or 2 mistakes on here.

So a UK PGCE and first class honours degree are arse wipe qualifications are they? Also CELTA and DELTA carry some weight worldwide for those wanting jobs as English teachers. I'll give a toss what prospective employers think about my job suitability. Not what some clown on Thaivisa thinks. Cheers

[scorecard]

For my kids I would prefer a near fluent English speaking Thai teacher than a native English speaker.

Most foreign teachers in Thailand have absolutely zero idea what it takes to master a foreign language and the learning challenges that can occur.

Also, foreign teachers seem to go through a revolving door here. My daughter has had already 3 different teachers this year.

Good plan, though I fear not very realistic seen the lack of ambition levels of the average Thai teacher.

To some extent I agree, however here's one scenario that worries me:

My Thai granddaughter (P6) speaks Thai and English at native speaker level and there are 4 more kids in her class also speak Thai and English at native speaker level. Her school has 2 English classes:

- Native speaker with excellent qualifications and good experience, he's a good teacher, pleasant and easy to approach, he's dedicated to his work, always carefully corrects all mistakes. The kids love him.

- An old Thai teacher who knows her grammar but she speaks tinglish; noun / adjectives, verb / adverb groupings always wrong, never uses plurals (boy / boys etc.) and she never uses anything but simple perfect tense.

But worse, she regularly asks the kids what they learned this morning / yesterday from their foreign English teacher. She then tells the kids that the farang teacher is wrong. She also goes out of her way to tell the kids who speak English at native speaker level that they are wrong and demands that they repeat several times her corrections of their English.

Parents have complained to the headmistress many times about the Thai English teacher. The same response every time, ' never mind, she retires in a few years from now'. In fact the headmistress never fixes anything and totally avoids any serious discussions about everything.

Edited November 14, 2015 by scorecard

[Shawn0001]

Problem with that is it can't be done in six weeks.

Send the 500 Thai teachers to USA or England for a full year of immersion and retraining. Then I'd agree with the idea.

CELTA would take up the first month and this could be followed by a two week course in how to deliver the CELTA to other teachers. Why would it be enough time for a foreign teacher but not enough for a Thai teacher? I'm sorry but it just isn't that hard to teach someone how to teach TEFL.

Shawn I've done CELTA, and believe me even doing it effectively in my first language, English, it was a really difficult thing to do. The hard work, time management, and dedication required to analyze and crirtique the performance of not only one's self but also the other trainees in your group day on day for a solid month I can honestly say would be well beyond most Thai teachers of English i've seen.

We had 1 foreign student on our CELTA course from Myanmar, she had an unbelievable level of English, but even when talking to her she said she found it so so difficult to take in and process and then apply all the information in such a short space of time. And she was one of the smartest, most driven people I've ever met.

As for learning how to teach CELTA. The levels set by Cambridge for being CELTA trainers are incredibly high, and require years of frontline mentoring experience, teaching excellence and general life skills just to be in the frame for it. To become that in 2 weeks is simply impossible. Also the DELTA which i've also done is ridiculous, the attention to detail and levels required there alone take years to fully take in and then mould into something truly valuable in the workplace.

I'm not Thai bashing. But this is a bridge too far for Thailand in the current climate. Some short and medium term goal setting is needed. And the goals need to be realistic, and this realism seems to be sorely lacking in almost every move the Education ministries make.

CELTA was just an example of how 6 weeks is considered more than enough training when it is a native completely inexperienced new teacher. They are selecting 500 of the best, it doesn't matter that it is beyond most Thai teachers. So you think allowing the British Council to train Thai teachers is a bridge too far, and what would you suggest, perhaps a lesser qualified and experienced course provider?

[MiKT]

When I first saw the title of the topic, I was hopeful that they were going to start culling the native English speakers who were truly inept teachers and focus on upgrading the quality of the teaching pool. Silly me.

David

Would they use Thai English speakers to do the culling? Just asking.

[slappy]

I saw the Deputy Education Minister speak at the FCC in Bangkok a while back. He seemed like a really smart guy, who I thought could really do some good in transforming the Thai education system.

Then I read this....

Oh dear.

When I was 'teaching' English here 5 years, the school I was at ran 'Teach The Teacher'. Once a week one of the farang teachers had to 'teach' the Thai teachers English.

That lesson teaching the teachers was more problematic than even my lowest ranked pratom class.

The Thai teacher had absolutely no interest in learning and often just sat their talking among themselves, playing on their phones and would almost never participate for fear of losing face.

My wife is Thai, a qualified experienced teacher, with overseas teaching experience. She agrees with your comments!

I've met many many Thai teachers - her friends, colleagues, subordinates and bosses. I estimate 5% are really good English speakers, understand the language and able to teach really well. 15% are very average, can just about teach it but make zero effort to improve (including avoiding having to speak English with me) and the rest are really not capable of teaching the subject apart from very basic.

There are many issued in the Thai teaching profession, and indeed many issued with the quality of some foreign teachers. But this decision is pure lunacy.

Baerboxer, i completely agree with what you have written

My wife is assistant director at an anubaan school and i teach conversation at a high school. I also have met many of her friends, colleagues, bosses. And part of her task was to co-ordinate with other schools mainly primary. This gave me the opportunity to visit these schools over the years. but it was very difficult to have a basic conversation with most of the Thai English teachers. Even today at my present school, out of the 6 Thai English teachers only 2 will speak with me, the others "if i don't speak first" will just ignore me. I have better conversations with the students and none Thai English teachers than i do with the Thai English teachers and the conversation tends to last longer as well.

I find that, once one becomes a government officer, that's it. They don't have to improve themselves as they have a job for life.

[DM07]

I must admit I didn't read ALL the replies, but from the few I did, I guess most respondents are English teachers....

I also admit I didn't do nor intend to do any research on the subject, but just my thoughts and observations:

1. Thailand is NOT the only country in the world that has its own language - I am not going to list all those countries

2. Thai people are NOT the only people who are not proficient in English - I had difficulties communicating in English in France and Germany, and I am not talking science talk - I am talking about asking driving direction in Germany or direction to the right train platform in France... In both places not in a small remote village, but in BIG cities, and not only elderly people, I was actually trying to ask young people who seemed to be students. BTW - the only person in the French train station who was able to answer my question was the toilets attendant!!! Even in the US of A - it's getting harder and harder to get around if you don't speak Spanish...

3. I am pretty sure that in MOST countries in the world, the foreign language teachers (be it English or any other) are locals, and not imported teachers.

4. I don't think that in the 10 or so years that foreign English have been widely employed all over the country, the level of English of the Thai students has improved to actually support the idea that foreign teachers are any better than the Thai teachers - now I can already imagine some of the TV members' responses to this like "the students are not listening to us" or "they are not interested" or "the school administrations / regulations / local teachers / janitors restrict our success"

Face it. This is Thailand. The official language is Thai. All documents are and will probably ALWAYS be in Thai. There are about 65 million Thais. Not all of them, not even most of them will ever NEED to interact in any other language. The ASEAN threat that Thais are going to lose their jobs if they can't master English? B******it. There have been import / export in Thailand for years. Who ever need to, find the way to communicate.

Well said! Maybe they are realizing here now that English is not as necessary as they thought back in the day when they thought it was. I think the computer craze and introduction of the net sent many countries on a paranoia trip believing that they all needed to learn English very well, because the net and computer language was all in English but as time went by and automatic translators made their appearance on the net and keyboards with Thai script were made, it became clear that English in Thailand is only needed around foreigners and only about 5% of Thais are engaged with foreigners in one way or another. 95% of Thais don't really need English, unless they want to listen to some quality Irish/English music of course or perhaps a Hollywood flick, but it seems that Lady Gaga and Deuce Bigalow don't need too much understanding of our language anyway, 55555.

I agree that 95% of Thais will never need to speak English.

But why limit students choices for the future?

More and more, the better English speakers will be getting the best jobs.

With that comes travel opportunities and an ability to connect to the outside world for both learning and entertainment.

That is not even the point!

With argumentation like that, you could erase 90% of the curriculum, because 95% will never need anything that will be taught in school!

I had hundreds of Math- lessons, I never understood what a "cosinus" actually is and I never ever needed it in my life!

I never neede even 1% of the Chemistry, Physics or Biology- classes I sat through.

But these things gave me a basic understanding of the world around me.

I do not -like my Thai wife- think that a blanket protects you from lightning...outside of the room...!

[Robbie Dye]

Here's an idea... Why not let us native English speaking oldies give some of our time free to small groups of Thai teachers to engage in conversation?? No reward required although they could buy us a beer! Why not use the potential u already have here in all the major urbanisations. We might even get accused of doing something useful for Thai people!

[fang37]

Here's an idea... Why not let us native English speaking oldies give some of our time free to small groups of Thai teachers to engage in conversation?? No reward required although they could buy us a beer! Why not use the potential u already have here in all the major urbanisations. We might even get accused of doing something useful for Thai people!

Even though it is voluntary, you will need a Work Permit.

[duanebigsby]

Not only that but the preposition "through" is something which many students can't handle.

I also had a lesson about sports day and I saw the word "palace" several times. The word "train" was commonly used for parade.

I suspect the Thai words they typed into their phones got translated poorly.

I have an awful time with kids and Google translate.

If you talk to them you can find out what they actually wanted to say and explain to them what the word means that they found before giving them the word that they were actually looking for, if you explain how the words are linked they can understand why they found this wrong word. If you do that then you may see that Google translate is actually a valuable asset to the language learner and teacher alike. You could even go as far as to encourage the student to use the 'make a suggestion' function on Google translate, helping to improve the service.

First, I let them try by themselves, when it doesn't come out quite right I do exactly what you suggested.

Google translate can be valuable but it can also be a bane. Thai doesn't translate well through the computer.

Yes, I do talk to my students of course!

Edited November 14, 2015 by duanebigsby

[anon444]

It is smart to slash down the number of foreign english teachers that is not educated teachers. To teach is after all a profession. Speaking english does not make you a teacher in english language!

[SuwadeeS]

On the way into the STONEAGE

[duanebigsby]

Problem with that is it can't be done in six weeks.

Send the 500 Thai teachers to USA or England for a full year of immersion and retraining. Then I'd agree with the idea.

CELTA would take up the first month and this could be followed by a two week course in how to deliver the CELTA to other teachers. Why would it be enough time for a foreign teacher but not enough for a Thai teacher? I'm sorry but it just isn't that hard to teach someone how to teach TEFL.

Shawn I've done CELTA, and believe me even doing it effectively in my first language, English, it was a really difficult thing to do. The hard work, time management, and dedication required to analyze and crirtique the performance of not only one's self but also the other trainees in your group day on day for a solid month I can honestly say would be well beyond most Thai teachers of English i've seen.

We had 1 foreign student on our CELTA course from Myanmar, she had an unbelievable level of English, but even when talking to her she said she found it so so difficult to take in and process and then apply all the information in such a short space of time. And she was one of the smartest, most driven people I've ever met.

As for learning how to teach CELTA. The levels set by Cambridge for being CELTA trainers are incredibly high, and require years of frontline mentoring experience, teaching excellence and general life skills just to be in the frame for it. To become that in 2 weeks is simply impossible. Also the DELTA which i've also done is ridiculous, the attention to detail and levels required there alone take years to fully take in and then mould into something truly valuable in the workplace.

I'm not Thai bashing. But this is a bridge too far for Thailand in the current climate. Some short and medium term goal setting is needed. And the goals need to be realistic, and this realism seems to be sorely lacking in almost every move the Education ministries make.

CELTA was just an example of how 6 weeks is considered more than enough training when it is a native completely inexperienced new teacher. They are selecting 500 of the best, it doesn't matter that it is beyond most Thai teachers. So you think allowing the British Council to train Thai teachers is a bridge too far, and what would you suggest, perhaps a lesser qualified and experienced course provider?

I'm sure z42 is just suggesting six weeks isn't enough for even the top 500 Thai English teachers to become CELTA ready.

I would also suggest the best English speakers won't be chosen, but rather relatives of staff of Ministry of Education.

[fang37]

Nepotism - NEVER in LOS!

[nursebob]

the report says they are trying to cut costs. I was working as an English teacher for 1 year, the school only paid me 18000 baht a month, they were claiming a lot more for my services, where did the extra money go? who knows.

[Thian]

and they will all say "good night i'm" "tried" like all of my college educated friends lol !!

Can i hell you sir?

[duanebigsby]

Can English be taught only by NES teachers?

Is it impossible to teach English by non-Foreign NES teachers?

LOL,

what is a "non foreign Native English Speaker"?

[duanebigsby]

the report says they are trying to cut costs. I was working as an English teacher for 1 year, the school only paid me 18000 baht a month, they were claiming a lot more for my services, where did the extra money go? who knows.

Why would you work for that? Simple google would have told you the going rate.

I take by the name bob you're not from Philippines or Cameroon?

[Bobobirdiebuddy]

This is Thailand. Always same-same. I'm boring and go to shopping and eat noodle.

[Nomyai]

english teachers are a fraud anyway. notice how most of them are single men.

[Nomyai]

Here's an idea... Why not let us native English speaking oldies give some of our time free to small groups of Thai teachers to engage in conversation?? No reward required although they could buy us a beer! Why not use the potential u already have here in all the major urbanisations. We might even get accused of doing something useful for Thai people!

You already do you part if you visit BARS...................hahahaha. I have to say someone is teaching them bar employees decent English.

Thier basic english is way better than my basic thai.

[DaveinAsia]

I must admit I didn't read ALL the replies, but from the few I did, I guess most respondents are English teachers....

I also admit I didn't do nor intend to do any research on the subject, but just my thoughts and observations:

1. Thailand is NOT the only country in the world that has its own language - I am not going to list all those countries

2. Thai people are NOT the only people who are not proficient in English - I had difficulties communicating in English in France and Germany, and I am not talking science talk - I am talking about asking driving direction in Germany or direction to the right train platform in France... In both places not in a small remote village, but in BIG cities, and not only elderly people, I was actually trying to ask young people who seemed to be students. BTW - the only person in the French train station who was able to answer my question was the toilets attendant!!! Even in the US of A - it's getting harder and harder to get around if you don't speak Spanish...

3. I am pretty sure that in MOST countries in the world, the foreign language teachers (be it English or any other) are locals, and not imported teachers.

4. I don't think that in the 10 or so years that foreign English have been widely employed all over the country, the level of English of the Thai students has improved to actually support the idea that foreign teachers are any better than the Thai teachers - now I can already imagine some of the TV members' responses to this like "the students are not listening to us" or "they are not interested" or "the school administrations / regulations / local teachers / janitors restrict our success"

Face it. This is Thailand. The official language is Thai. All documents are and will probably ALWAYS be in Thai. There are about 65 million Thais. Not all of them, not even most of them will ever NEED to interact in any other language. The ASEAN threat that Thais are going to lose their jobs if they can't master English? B******it. There have been import / export in Thailand for years. Who ever need to, find the way to communicate.

Well said! Maybe they are realizing here now that English is not as necessary as they thought back in the day when they thought it was. I think the computer craze and introduction of the net sent many countries on a paranoia trip believing that they all needed to learn English very well, because the net and computer language was all in English but as time went by and automatic translators made their appearance on the net and keyboards with Thai script were made, it became clear that English in Thailand is only needed around foreigners and only about 5% of Thais are engaged with foreigners in one way or another. 95% of Thais don't really need English, unless they want to listen to some quality Irish/English music of course or perhaps a Hollywood flick, but it seems that Lady Gaga and Deuce Bigalow don't need too much understanding of our language anyway, 55555.

I agree that 95% of Thais will never need to speak English.

But why limit students choices for the future?

More and more, the better English speakers will be getting the best jobs.

With that comes travel opportunities and an ability to connect to the outside world for both learning and entertainment.

That is not even the point!

With argumentation like that, you could erase 90% of the curriculum, because 95% will never need anything that will be taught in school!

I had hundreds of Math- lessons, I never understood what a "cosinus" actually is and I never ever needed it in my life!

I never neede even 1% of the Chemistry, Physics or Biology- classes I sat through.

But these things gave me a basic understanding of the world around me.

I do not -like my Thai wife- think that a blanket protects you from lightning...outside of the room...!

You are right! 90% of the curriculum should be cancelled and instead kids should be taught things that are useful for life, like meditation, gardening, creating, yoga, etc.

90% of what we are taught is useless data that we will never use in our lives and unlike you said will give us a clearer perception of the world around us.

Education now is based on spitting out kids to fill up jobs instead of focusing on their talents, that's why the world is such a messed up place. Of course I am just dreaming and it's utopia for the moment but honestly, the school system and education globally is based on Old World thinking. It's outdated. Time for a gigantic evolutionary jump in thinking, break away from that indoctrination

[fang37]

Don't forget macrame & knitting in a revised curriculum.

[ravip]

If all the smart foreigners leave Thailand, would Thais be an endangered species?

[sanukjim]

Would not Thailand be better off having Thai teachers trained in English then hiring back packers with out a degree in education. hired simply because they fit the appearance of a western educator and can somewhat utter English?They are many Thais here in Thailand with degrees from Australia,England and America.The "so called " International schools here won't hire them because the school couldn't rip off the students parents by claiming that their students are getting a western type of education.

[Nomyai]

Leave Thais alone. I really like that they arent the USA!