Selling non Chanote Land / Home

[samsingsong]

There is no problem with owning land without a chanote. I bought 3/4 rai in our village and put a house on it then bought the 1/2 rai next to us , all from the old guy who lives down behind us.

The paperwork to obtain the chanote will happen as government goes from village to village and does the necessary steps as needed to verify the owner. Ours is in the process and will be complete within the next 6 months.

Steven, you say " There is no problem with owning land.... I bought 3/4 rai....".

Forgive me if I'm wrong (and I haven't read all the posts on this subject) but it is my understanding, that unless you are a 'Thai National' (Steven?), you have not bought any land and you can't own any land. You may have paid for it, but you can't own it. The only way a non-Thai can buy property, is a condo of the 49% allocation in a condominium building, that is allowed for foreigners to have in their own name. I'm really not trying to be a smart &rse. I have previously met a foreigner who genuinely believed he had bought a house (in the sense we do elsewhere).

[DonaldBattles]

This discussion has lost some of it's meaning by miss or partial information. The business of having the pui yai baan certify that you have purchased something from someone is no more than his desire for free money and no validity other than you paid money for something that you did not own.

The land offices and owners are always telling people it won't be long before they issue chanotes. First they have to issue Nor Sor 3. Exception to these arel always where you have bribed someone in the land office. You have to ask the question why would the government want to give up it's land and give it to you and your wife. First it is against the law as noted in the past year with many scams and land being taken back. If you don't have the money to buy land with a legal title wait and save your money until you do. Once you do make sure that your name is on the bottom of the chanote as the usufruct. This protects you for life and no one can take it away from you. You can also sub let the property. The land office will charge you about 75 Baht for this service and you are protected. If you don't then you are not protected.

there is no question that a lot of land has houses built on them where there is no chanote. When you b uy non chanote land you are simply paying others to vacate the land. I know 2 cases where 3rd parties came along and told people to get off their land as it was theirs. This was done after they built a house on the property and they had to pay big money to get these people to go away. The pui yai baan helped and got his share.

Rather than listen to people like me go to a competent lawyer or the head of the land office with your questions and issues.

[Kenny202]

This discussion has lost some of it's meaning by miss or partial information. The business of having the pui yai baan certify that you have purchased something from someone is no more than his desire for free money and no validity other than you paid money for something that you did not own.

The land offices and owners are always telling people it won't be long before they issue chanotes. First they have to issue Nor Sor 3. Exception to these arel always where you have bribed someone in the land office. You have to ask the question why would the government want to give up it's land and give it to you and your wife. First it is against the law as noted in the past year with many scams and land being taken back. If you don't have the money to buy land with a legal title wait and save your money until you do. Once you do make sure that your name is on the bottom of the chanote as the usufruct. This protects you for life and no one can take it away from you. You can also sub let the property. The land office will charge you about 75 Baht for this service and you are protected. If you don't then you are not protected.

there is no question that a lot of land has houses built on them where there is no chanote. When you b uy non chanote land you are simply paying others to vacate the land. I know 2 cases where 3rd parties came along and told people to get off their land as it was theirs. This was done after they built a house on the property and they had to pay big money to get these people to go away. The pui yai baan helped and got his share.

Rather than listen to people like me go to a competent lawyer or the head of the land office with your questions and issues.

We saw a lawyer before and he said yes and no. It appears to me that this issue is like so many in Thailand. There's no clarity, and up to the official or office you get. Lucky or unlucky. Like I said I would never buy non chanote land (we're selling) but it does happen in rural Thailand all the time. Most of the time with no issues. I looked into buying a chanote property some time ago...of course in my missus name. I had 2 options to protect myself. One was a usufruct which in theory is ok if you want to live their forever with or without your missus. But what if things go guts up and you want to go back to your home country? No way to recoup Ur investment. Second option make Ur wife take out a mortgage against the chanote which I believe gives you the right to force the sale of the house to recoup Ur money and call in the loan. Probably a better option but say you quit together after 10 years. The home has appreciated 175%. You only get Ur original investment back. That's my understanding anyway.

[khunPer]

I agree with some of the other posters. Lots of lands with low title deeds are transferred (sold) every day witnessed by Head-of-village. It’s legal to transfer to family and relatives – i.e. most of a village and often also neighboring village(s) – that is written on the deed, whilst selling to out-standers can become a problem. However, it’s said that at some point most of the rural village land shall be upgraded to Nor Sor 3 or Chanute.

You may have restrictions written on the deed (usually in red print) saying that the land cannot be sold, but that it may be transferred to direct heirs of the person who hold it. Only a long-term holder can apply for upgrade. Some farmland is for farming only and with no rights, i.e. permission to build a house or like.

Also the low title deeds cannot be used a guarantee for loans, except some special government approved farmer support; however widely used as security for (fairly high interest) loans between villagers, in the rural Isaan village area I’m familiar with. Also pure farmlands with only tax receipts as proof of “ownership” are traded for as much as 30k to 40k baht a rai. Normally all transactions, including loan agreements, takes place in front of Head-of-Village, who sign as witness – seem to be considered as legal proof.

Number of villagers seem to have quite some fund available today to buy land and build houses; and buy cars and tractors – don’t think it’s all “farang-money” – so 600-700k as OP mention, may not be an impossible cash-transaction; or split on two transaction, where the paperwork is finalized with last payment, sellers security is “ownership” and first payment as compensation.

So to answers OP’s questions from my point of view:

1) Yes, it’s Okay to transfer (sell) land to other villagers, which may include neighboring villagers.

2) Probably not legally, out-standers may have a risk, but local Head-of-Village should know more about the usual local procedure.

3) Your risk may be, that an out-stander buyer, in case of problems, may claim compensation from seller; no matter how many signed statements you may have with buyer, it can end up being a court decision.

Edited November 23, 2015 by khunPer