Turkey 'shoots down' warplane near Syrian-Turkish border

[heina]

Russian jet hit inside Syria after incursion into Turkey: U.S. official

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/25/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-impact-idUSKBN0TE04M20151125

[derator01]

A few off topic posts have been removed from view. Apologies to the members with the appropriate replies.

[MobileContent]

Please get your facts straight. Notice the date? Well before Russia decided to bomb rebels opposed to Assad. Including the Turkmen.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/us-begins-bombing-isil-positions-syria-201492313622252650.html

US and allies strike ISIL targets in Syria US and Arab coalition attacks ISIL in northern Syria, as Washington conducts separate strikes on Al-Nusra Front ally.

23 Sep 2014

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

Who are the Turkmen in Syria?

The Turkmen are ethnic Turks who have lived in the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran since the 11th Century.

They are mainly concentrated in the north, in the Turkmen Mountain area in Latakia close to the Turkish border, as well as in Aleppo, Idlib, Homs, Tartus and the Damascus region.

There are no reliable population figures, but they are estimated to number between 1.5 and 3.5 million.

Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

Supported by Turkey, a staunch foe of Bashar al-Assad, they took up arms against the regime soon after the start of the uprising in 2011.

but they are still trained by the Turkish military:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades

I wonder what you would think if Cambodian troops start setting up a the Thai Khmer Brigades or Laos would setup the Thai Lao Brigades, or Malaysia the Thai Malaysian Brigade etc.

I guess the Syrian Turkmen Brigades will be hunted down as well and I would want to be a Turkmen now in Syria.

[nidieunimaitre]

According to Reuters the shooting down happened above Syria, not above Turkey.

Their source is part of an American investigation team.

Edit: I see that heina already posted the link.

Edited November 25, 2015 by nidieunimaitre

[NeverSure]

Putin loves to play the tough guy. Here he is riding with an "outlaw" Harley motorcycle gang. I can't figure out why a tough guy with no helmet rides a tricycle but - up to him. At least he has good taste in motorcycles.

I spent some time trying to decide what the highly altered Harley is, and concluded that it must be a Road King. I went between that and an Ultra Classic but landed on Road King due to the headlight alone.

Edited November 25, 2015 by NeverSure

[nontabury]

The Turks are going to have to go it alone against Russia. America with the Peace President is going to say relax And the EU and England will never fight for the Turks against Moscow.

Why are the Turks so stupid to think America EU and England will defend them?

Possible because England does not have a armed force. You should have said the UK force. "yes" I know your an American and don't know the difference.

[Chicog]

The Turks are going to have to go it alone against Russia. America with the Peace President is going to say relax And the EU and England will never fight for the Turks against Moscow.

Why are the Turks so stupid to think America EU and England will defend them?

Possible because England does not have a armed force. You should have said the UK force. "yes" I know your an American and don't know the difference.

The UK is a member of NATO.

No doubt NATO have already sent a fax to Vlad reminding him of their rules.

I don't expect it to happen again.

[Basil B]

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .

He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.

He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.

He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

It is of significance to mention a bit here about Nato and certain of its members as military powers of the world.

Of the world's top ten military forces and powers, five of 'em are in Nato. Here's how the five that are in Nato rank globally.....

USA - 1

UK - 5

France - 6

Germany - 8

Turkey - 10

Russia ranks number 2 of the world's military powers, the CCP China number 3. And the CCP Dictators in Beijing are definitely standing back from this one. Beijing is rather busy at the moment hollering about the US Navy having the CCP Boyz tied up in knots in the South China Sea.

Btw Israel globally is number 11.

Some of the other Nato members and their world's military strength rankings...

Canada - 14

Italy - 16

Poland - 19

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

(Yes Canada, 14th military power of the world. Most Canadians don't know it either.)

What would be more interesting would be how those rankings worked out in % of total world military strength???

[maykilceksin]

So lets start again.

Russia got a big and deserved slap into his face.

Russia infringed turkish border five times last couple of months including 4 minute radar lockdown by mig 29 to a turkish f 16.

Check it out:

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-warns-retaliate-air-space-violated-103607889.html

This is from october.

And many meetings are done with russian officials about these and russia is warned many times. This includes downing of an unmanned russian aircraft on turkish soil.

Russia was thinking like 'I can do whatever I want and can violate and disrespect others' borders when I want' but this clearly failed and russia got a reply. Nose is cut.

This is not ukraine.

Turkey has every right to defend its border from intrusions through international and domestic laws for regular border violations.

Every country does the same.

And russia claims they fight witb isis but in reality what they are doing ia just offering protection to assad regime and at this incident, they were bombing forces against assad not isis.

It is easy for people to speak frim thousands of kms but turkey lives in that middle east s...t and suffering for long decades wherw russia or others living in their secure homelands.

Just tell me. What is russia doing in syria?

They are just protecting Assad regime bc Assad gave them bases and land and now rusaia scares like if Assad is down, syrian people will kick russia out of syria.

Keep in mind, I never support the foreign policy of turkey. They supported isis before and uighurs by giving them passport but same as americans.

Hope russian pilots are safe though

Edited November 25, 2015 by maykilceksin

[humqdpf]

Putin describes downing a plane in what he sees as disputed airspace as "a stab in the back."

But what does he call the invasion of a sovereign territory by militias with arms supplied by your neighbour?

[SOTIRIOS]

........did not see this in the news anywhere.....

[Thorgal]

Wasn't it obvious clear that Russian planes were striking on Syrian territories only.

Turkish territories were never subjected to any form of Russian aggression.

Shooting down the Russian plane was provocative. As did the Turkish and Israeli airforce with Syrian fighter jets on Syrian soil.

Makes Turkey now more suspect in collaboration with Syrian opposition.

[Mosha]

BBC Unofficial Russian reports, the Syrian Army have rescued the other pilot.

[Tywais]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

Maybe because the Russian bomber happens to be a 40 year old one.

This was probably more about a modern missile than an airplane. Any modern purpose built missile belonging to NATO, be it a UK or a US design isn't likely to miss. It's more likely to go right up the tailpipe.

Cheers.

Also would seem Russia doesn't have very good ECM (electronic counter measures) fitted.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.

[ourmanflint]

Seems to me that Putin has a lot of intel about what has been happening on the ground in and around Syria over past few years. Isn't it funny that not less than 24 hours after him telling the world the west has done nothing to stop the flow of ISIS oil to Turkey, that the west all of a sudden decide to bomb the convoys of oil tankers?

Putin is a very good tactician, and if he wants to pull Turkey into the spotlight, he knows how to do it. Putin wants a conflict with Turkey and he wants Turkey to be in the spotlight, why is as yet unclear, but you can bet that over the next few days or weeks, intel will be found about Turkeys involvement with ISIS and it will soon lose friends and allies.

[Chicog]

Putin describes downing a plane in what he sees as disputed airspace as "a stab in the back."

But what does he call the invasion of a sovereign territory by militias with arms supplied by your neighbour?

They were on holiday, remember.

[craigt3365]

Putin describes downing a plane in what he sees as disputed airspace as "a stab in the back."

But what does he call the invasion of a sovereign territory by militias with arms supplied by your neighbour?

They were on holiday, remember.

LOL Didn't seem like much of a holiday to some:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/05/russia-tv-funeral-soldier-killed-ukraine-on-leave

[kiwikeith]

Their fighters also gunned the pilots who had ejected, that's murder.

The plane crashed in Syrian territory.

No one knows who shot down the malaysian plane in ukraine but my moneys on the ukraine.

Why say the Russian airliner downed by a bomb was russian incompetence, it was an ISIS act of terror.

Until now Russia has done more damage to ISIS in a month than American airstrikes in one year, and now france is teamed up with them.

I really think that some people have been brainwashed by the drone OBAMA.

Putin is right Turkey assist ISIS they buy their stolen oil and feed reinforcements across their border, disgusting.

[Publicus]

 

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .

He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.

He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.

He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

It is of significance to mention a bit here about Nato and certain of its members as military powers of the world.

Of the world's top ten military forces and powers, five of 'em are in Nato. Here's how the five that are in Nato rank globally.....

USA - 1

UK - 5

France - 6

Germany - 8

Turkey - 10

Russia ranks number 2 of the world's military powers, the CCP China number 3. And the CCP Dictators in Beijing are definitely standing back from this one. Beijing is rather busy at the moment hollering about the US Navy having the CCP Boyz tied up in knots in the South China Sea.

Btw Israel globally is number 11.

Some of the other Nato members and their world's military strength rankings...

Canada - 14

Italy - 16

Poland - 19

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

(Yes Canada, 14th military power of the world. Most Canadians don't know it either.)

What would be more interesting would be how those rankings worked out in % of total world military strength???

Anyone interested in a particular measurement of military strength of Nato by nation would be welcome to visit the linked website and post his on-topic findings. Or from any website.

This poster researched and posted a particular military aspect of Nato vs Russia (and China) of interest to me and related to the topic/thread.

Rather than to presume to question this poster's individual interest and focus, you might just move on to your own interest to research and post thx. Good luck with that individual pursuit.

[smedly]

So what would you do if you were Putin right now ?

My prediction

IMO the most obvious step would be to provide fighter escorts for the bombers, so I think that Russia will now provide each SU 24/34 with a couple of Mig's to protect them, they may even cross into Turkey airspace to provoke a confrontation, it would be a bold step but I wouldn't put it beyong Putin to do such a thing, it would also be a very serious escalation

[smedly]

 

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

It is of significance to mention a bit here about Nato and certain of its members as military powers of the world.

Of the world's top ten military forces and powers, five of 'em are in Nato. Here's how the five that are in Nato rank globally.....

USA - 1

UK - 5

France - 6

Germany - 8

Turkey - 10

Russia ranks number 2 of the world's military powers, the CCP China number 3. And the CCP Dictators in Beijing are definitely standing back from this one. Beijing is rather busy at the moment hollering about the US Navy having the CCP Boyz tied up in knots in the South China Sea.

Btw Israel globally is number 11.

Some of the other Nato members and their world's military strength rankings...

Canada - 14

Italy - 16

Poland - 19

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

(Yes Canada, 14th military power of the world. Most Canadians don't know it either.)

What would be more interesting would be how those rankings worked out in % of total world military strength???

Anyone interested in a particular measurement of military strength of Nato by nation would be welcome to visit the linked website and post his on-topic findings. Or from any website.

This poster researched and posted a particular military aspect of Nato vs Russia (and China) of interest to me and related to the topic/thread.

Rather than to presume to question this poster's individual interest and focus, you might just move on to your own interest to research and post thx. Good luck with that individual pursuit.

numbers mean nothing, it's about the ability to deploy, training and the level of technology

We saw during desert storm how the Iraq air force (Russian kit) was disabled/destroyed by the USAF in a couple of days, some managed to flee to Iran

[Chicog]

So what would you do if you were Putin right now ?

My prediction

IMO the most obvious step would be to provide fighter escorts for the bombers, so I think that Russia will now provide each SU 24/34 with a couple of Mig's to protect them, they may even cross into Turkey airspace to provoke a confrontation, it would be a bold step but I wouldn't put it beyong Putin to do such a thing, it would also be a very serious escalation

As I said already, and with Syria's blessing, I think he's going to bomb the crap out of the Turkmen that Turkey were trying to protect.

It then becomes Turkey's problem. They can't exactly send F16's to fight Putin when they've just been bleating about how outrageous it is to invade other countries' airspace.

[maykilceksin]

Please get your facts straight. Notice the date? Well before Russia decided to bomb rebels opposed to Assad. Including the Turkmen.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/us-begins-bombing-isil-positions-syria-201492313622252650.html

US and allies strike ISIL targets in Syria US and Arab coalition attacks ISIL in northern Syria, as Washington conducts separate strikes on Al-Nusra Front ally.

23 Sep 2014

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

Who are the Turkmen in Syria?

The Turkmen are ethnic Turks who have lived in the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran since the 11th Century.

They are mainly concentrated in the north, in the Turkmen Mountain area in Latakia close to the Turkish border, as well as in Aleppo, Idlib, Homs, Tartus and the Damascus region.

There are no reliable population figures, but they are estimated to number between 1.5 and 3.5 million.

Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

Supported by Turkey, a staunch foe of Bashar al-Assad, they took up arms against the regime soon after the start of the uprising in 2011.

but they are still trained by the Turkish military:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades

I wonder what you would think if Cambodian troops start setting up a the Thai Khmer Brigades or Laos would setup the Thai Lao Brigades, or Malaysia the Thai Malaysian Brigade etc.

I guess the Syrian Turkmen Brigades will be hunted down as well and I would want to be a Turkmen now in Syria.

like russia trained and armed rebels around donetsk in ukraine resulted on malaysian airlines jet shot down by rebels created by russia?

turks have ethnic relationships on its area. of course turkey will support them.

russia has no right to be in syria first of all. what are they doing there? sure not reinstalling democracy in syria:) putin is a dictator anyway running russia with his iron fist as dictatorship?, no?

russia is just being a lapdog of bloody Assad, intrude to the borders of other countries living there for thousands of years to test their patience and result? a slap in the face to russia.

the biggest reason for isis to flourish is the support Putin provides to Assad in return for more bases and land in syria. this support created a space for isis to get bigger around there. if Assad was down long time ago which means a united powerful syria, sure isis will not be that powerful now.

russia is playing with fire and got its first serious burn. please accept that. turkey is a powerful country there and sure will shot down any jet violating its borders. it is their right. and sure russia does the same for any regular violation of air space and i support russia of course if that is the case.

hate erdogan and its policies but cannot tolerate another country violating others' sovereignty regularly like its their land and like they can do whatever they do.

Edited November 25, 2015 by maykilceksin

[simple1]

Seems to me that Putin has a lot of intel about what has been happening on the ground in and around Syria over past few years. Isn't it funny that not less than 24 hours after him telling the world the west has done nothing to stop the flow of ISIS oil to Turkey, that the west all of a sudden decide to bomb the convoys of oil tankers?

Putin is a very good tactician, and if he wants to pull Turkey into the spotlight, he knows how to do it. Putin wants a conflict with Turkey and he wants Turkey to be in the spotlight, why is as yet unclear, but you can bet that over the next few days or weeks, intel will be found about Turkeys involvement with ISIS and it will soon lose friends and allies.

Operation Tidal Wave II is a US-led coalition military operation commenced on or about 21 October 2015 against oil transport, refining and distribution facilities and infrastructure controlled by Daesh. In other words prior to the Russian announcements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tidal_Wave_II

[smedly]

So what would you do if you were Putin right now ?

My prediction

IMO the most obvious step would be to provide fighter escorts for the bombers, so I think that Russia will now provide each SU 24/34 with a couple of Mig's to protect them, they may even cross into Turkey airspace to provoke a confrontation, it would be a bold step but I wouldn't put it beyong Putin to do such a thing, it would also be a very serious escalation

As I said already, and with Syria's blessing, I think he's going to bomb the crap out of the Turkmen that Turkey were trying to protect.

It then becomes Turkey's problem. They can't exactly send F16's to fight Putin when they've just been bleating about how outrageous it is to invade other countries' airspace.

That has been happening already, exactly the reason there is existing friction and Turkey is so adamant that Russian aircraft stay out of their airspace, it is common knowledge that the Russians are not just bombing ISIS targets

[maykilceksin]

So what would you do if you were Putin right now ?

My prediction

IMO the most obvious step would be to provide fighter escorts for the bombers, so I think that Russia will now provide each SU 24/34 with a couple of Mig's to protect them, they may even cross into Turkey airspace to provoke a confrontation, it would be a bold step but I wouldn't put it beyong Putin to do such a thing, it would also be a very serious escalation

As I said already, and with Syria's blessing, I think he's going to bomb the crap out of the Turkmen that Turkey were trying to protect.

It then becomes Turkey's problem. They can't exactly send F16's to fight Putin when they've just been bleating about how outrageous it is to invade other countries' airspace.

c'mon, usa or russia or uk or france can send its jets all the way to afghanistan or iraq or many places on earth claiming their national security and turkey cannot fly their planes just across its borders over war stricken syria and iraq where isis and pkk terrorists infiltrate to turkish soil to bomb around?

keep in mind, last three months isis bombed two big gatherings in turkey and 170 people died. turks suffer from isis more than any other country. keep in mind.

Edited November 25, 2015 by maykilceksin

[Chicog]

Not when they've just shot down a Russian jet, no.

[Thorgal]

 

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .
He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.
He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.
He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

It is of significance to mention a bit here about Nato and certain of its members as military powers of the world.

Of the world's top ten military forces and powers, five of 'em are in Nato. Here's how the five that are in Nato rank globally.....

USA - 1
UK - 5
France - 6
Germany - 8
Turkey - 10

Russia ranks number 2 of the world's military powers, the CCP China number 3. And the CCP Dictators in Beijing are definitely standing back from this one. Beijing is rather busy at the moment hollering about the US Navy having the CCP Boyz tied up in knots in the South China Sea.


Btw Israel globally is number 11.


Some of the other Nato members and their world's military strength rankings...

Canada - 14
Italy - 16
Poland - 19

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

(Yes Canada, 14th military power of the world. Most Canadians don't know it either.)

What would be more interesting would be how those rankings worked out in % of total world military strength???

Anyone interested in a particular measurement of military strength of Nato by nation would be welcome to visit the linked website and post his on-topic findings. Or from any website.

This poster researched and posted a particular military aspect of Nato vs Russia (and China) of interest to me and related to the topic/thread.

Rather than to presume to question this poster's individual interest and focus, you might just move on to your own interest to research and post thx. Good luck with that individual pursuit.

Perhaps it's not matching your 'stars and stripes' rhetoric that you try to push ad nauseum...but it's not the first time a NATO force conducted strikes during the Syrian civil war.

In September 2013, 2 US ballistic missiles were fired from Spain and were heading to Damascus. The Russians intercepted one, and the other was guided and also neutralised above Mediterranean sea, just in front of Syrian coastline.

The Russians used 2 types of technologies in their missiles defensive system. NATO allies understood at that moment that Russian military technology was at least 15 years more advanced.

Defeating frontline of the Turkmen doesn't require high-tec weaponry. It's a question of time when the Syrian Army of Assad will join the Kurdish frontline.

Idem dito for the Golan heights, but this time it's the Hezbollah vs Al Nusra and what some people call 'the moderate' rebels. I expect some irritation from Israeli IDF.

Turkey will also be isolated and gets as per OP already irritated...

Edited November 25, 2015 by Scott

[LuckyNo4]

Wasn't it obvious clear that Russian planes were striking on Syrian territories only.

Turkish territories were never subjected to any form of Russian aggression.

Shooting down the Russian plane was provocative. As did the Turkish and Israeli airforce with Syrian fighter jets on Syrian soil.

Makes Turkey now more suspect in collaboration with Syrian opposition.

Suspect? lol Its a dead cert!