100 Thais die each day from drug-resistant diseases

[phycokiller]

stupid reactions....just change the law! Antibiotics prescriptions ONLY as we are used in Western countries...

personally I like being able to buy antibiotics without a prescription, only used them about 4 times in my life but no way will I ever go to a Thai doctor

well, I know there are many people in the world they are thinking they knew all about medicines....more than doctors. How would you call those? Morons, idiots, illiterate? maybe there are more drastic words. And you would be like one of those? Poor laddie...

yes i am one of those, thanks to the internet we have all the info on drugs and medicines that is available to doctors and some of us prefer to make our own decisions, but you maybe are one of those people that has to be told what to do by a so called authority figure. each to their own

[phycokiller]

I have met quite a few girls in Thailand that take antibiotics every day and from what they tell me most of their friends do the same

[farangmick]

Drugs and medicine given to patients in Thailand is of old generation, low quality and often fake

due to lack or proper supervision, there are many rough medicine manufactures of home made style

back yard production of drugs with either no medicinal properties or very weak one,

I just to see the Thai government dispensing first grade anti viral and anti body to a 30 baht patient...

Drugs and medicine given to patients in Thailand is of old generation ...

True, government hospitals where patients pay little themselves often distribute medicine of an older generation as this saves huge amounts of money. Generic medicine or an older generation often costs less than half the price while giving the same benefits to the patients and very similar side-effects.

... low quality ...

Incorrect, older generation drugs work very similarly but are of slightly lower quality which is often not even noticeable. Manufacturers upgrade their medicine all the time to be able to market it differently when their patent expires or to differentiate from competitors. Its like a pen manufacturer coming with a new model pen; both the old and new pen write similarly, only the new one feels a tiny bit better in your hand and costs double what the old one costs.

... and often fake ...

Incorrect. No idea where you got that idea from, but it is totally wrong. Maybe you bought some viagra on the streets in Pattaya that did not work, but medicine you get in a hospital is real.

... due to lack or proper supervision ...

Incorrect. Or do you think that Pfizer has 2 factories right next to each other. One producing good stuff for Europe/US, and the other one next door churning out shitty stuff in a rat infested environment because they will ship the things to Thailand? Even medicine produced in Thailand is being highly supervised, also by international agencies, although i can imagine the supervision being lower than in the US/EU.

... there are many rough medicine manufactures of home made style back yard production of drugs with either no medicinal properties or very weak one ...

No, there are not. There are some "underground labs" producing fake products for sell at Patpong and MBK, but those medicine do not find their way into hospitals.

... i just to see the Thai government dispensing first grade anti viral and anti body to a 30 baht patient ...

They do in case there are no alternatives. But as mentioned before it is normal practice around the world to go give close substitutes in case it leads to huge cost savings without negative side-effects.

The always cash strapped NHS in England could save billions if doctors prescribed generic drugs instead of brand names. Maybe I am too used to Thai ways, but the idea of mega rich drug companies and kickbacks comes to mind.

[farangmick]

stupid reactions....just change the law! Antibiotics prescriptions ONLY as we are used in Western countries...

Since most doctors include antibiotics in the lucky bag of pills and potions every Thai expects to take home with them, who will do the prescribing?

[farangmick]

stupid reactions....just change the law! Antibiotics prescriptions ONLY as we are used in Western countries...

Since most doctors include antibiotics in the lucky bag of pills and potions every Thai expects to take home with them, who will do the prescribing?

[from the home of CC]

stupid reactions....just change the law! Antibiotics prescriptions ONLY as we are used in Western countries...

Yes they've made 'prescription only' for many substances over the last 15 yrs., here's one truly dangerous med they give free reign to because it doesn't alter your conciousness.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[farangmick]

Clinics in my town are 50% corner shop. If a doctor charges more than 50 baht per consultation, he gets no patients.So most sell unnecessary, and largely useless, but harmless pills and potions to top up their income. Punters happily pay another 200 for a bag of rubbish. They never finish it, but they think they've got their monies worth.

Our present doctor opened a clinic a couple of years ago, and it was a godsend with two small children. Both he and his wife speak good English, explain what medicines are for, and only sell proper stuff.

Not really anything to do with the topic, but I asked the doctors father, why his son, who is a Lt. Col. in the army, why he needed to open a clinic. Apparently the army salary is only 20,000 baht per month, same as I give the wife!

[mommysboy]

<Snip>

Antibiotics have saved millions of lives. Even on a minor level they save people having to endure the misery of a nasal infection for instance. By all means rough it out if you want, but some of us lead a tiring lifestyle what with work and kids.

<Snip>

It’s a culture thing.

When my first daughter was about four, and she felt unwell, she would ask Mum for – a drink with a pill in it!

My wife would give junior aspirin dissolved in orange juice and my daughter had learned this.

My wife and I had a talk about this and we stopped the practice to try not to build a culture that “a drink with a pill in it solves all ills”!

Earlier this year my wife had a severe throat and chest infection - got during visits to a dentist in Bangkok.

It took ages to fix, loads of Dr, pharmacy, clinic and hospital visits.

To cut a long story short.....

In the end, I asked her to stop all the pills and then she started to get better.

She passed it on to me and I used a nasal spray made with medical grade hydrogen peroxide.

I did not suffer anything like as much as she did.

Too little is as bad as too much.

There are compelling reasons why medication should be taken for a severe throat and chest infection.

If everybody followed your advice, there would have been millions of deaths worldwide by now. Even good care and a strong immune system is not enough sometimes. To think otherwise just isn't right and could be dangerous.

Fooling around with chemicals is also not such a good idea.

[laislica]

<Snip>

Antibiotics have saved millions of lives. Even on a minor level they save people having to endure the misery of a nasal infection for instance. By all means rough it out if you want, but some of us lead a tiring lifestyle what with work and kids.

<Snip>

It’s a culture thing.

When my first daughter was about four, and she felt unwell, she would ask Mum for – a drink with a pill in it!

My wife would give junior aspirin dissolved in orange juice and my daughter had learned this.

My wife and I had a talk about this and we stopped the practice to try not to build a culture that “a drink with a pill in it solves all ills”!

Earlier this year my wife had a severe throat and chest infection - got during visits to a dentist in Bangkok.

It took ages to fix, loads of Dr, pharmacy, clinic and hospital visits.

To cut a long story short.....

In the end, I asked her to stop all the pills and then she started to get better.

She passed it on to me and I used a nasal spray made with medical grade hydrogen peroxide.

I did not suffer anything like as much as she did.

Too little is as bad as too much.

There are compelling reasons why medication should be taken for a severe throat and chest infection.

If everybody followed your advice, there would have been millions of deaths worldwide by now. Even good care and a strong immune system is not enough sometimes. To think otherwise just isn't right and could be dangerous.

Fooling around with chemicals is also not such a good idea.

I agree 100% or 200% (if that helps), chemical drugs are dangerous, an "extract" can do real harm.

As an example, take vitamin C.

We are told that mega doses of Ascorbic Acid (as vitamin C) and will cure - well - everything?

What they don't tell is that - if vitamin C was an egg, ascorbic Acid would be the shell, there would be lots more "stuff" needed to make up the complete vitamin.

However, and dangerously, once ascorbic acid enters your body, it binds with the receptors needing vitamin C and if you took a mega dose, it fills em all up.

Therefore actually blocking the absorption of more Vitamic C.

So, after the mega dose of the small component of vitamin C, should you eat fruit, like say an orange - full of the natural complex parts that make a complete vitamin C, none of it would be absorbed. Bugga!

Therefore, it is possible that continually taking large doses of ascorbic acid could actually lead to a defficiency in vitamin C.

BTW.I am not giving advice, just anecdotal info.

I could, for instance, post the whole story of my wife's illness and treatment earlier this year.

Just say if you would like it and I will PM you to save redirecting this thread.

However, I suspect that we are at least in the same book, possibly even the same chapter - if not the same page LOL

When my aged Mum, in her 80's became so ill we thought she was a gonner, she was shipped off to the hospital, pumped full of antibiotics and released a day later, full of beans and ready to go again.

So - yes - antibiotics, used properly are life savers.

Used irresponsibly may well render them usless for everyone.....

[BKKdreaming]

absolutele nonsense:

Medicine here in Thailand is produced under GMP guide lines and according international standards

and sold out of a storefront with no AC and 100F temps to store the medicine !

the storage has nothing to do with the quality of producing medicine. Are you buying your medicine on the street? Why do you think there are pharmacies? Or do you buy your steak in your country at the tailor's or fish monger's?

Stupid quote

it does matter what temp it is stored at , read the package

The Pharmacies are the ones not storing the medicine properly

sorry if I am stupid to you.......

[expatbrit]

Antibiotic resistance is a world wide problem, it does not just affect Thailand.

The "third world" is not only a risk to itself but to the rest of the world.

Some of the most dangerous antibiotic resistant organisms have originated in the third world because of poor antibiotic custody. The free sale of antibiotics to the general public and irresponsible use of antibiotics by medical professionals all contribute to the problem.

Urgent action is needed in the 3rd world to gain responsible control and use of antibiotics.

The World Health Organisation is working hard to achieve change.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

http://www.who.int/drugresistance/en/

http://www.who.int/drugresistance/documents/surveillancereport/en/

[xylophone]

There was a news item on BBC a few days ago regarding antibiotic resistant bacteria, with a particular new strain of bacteria being found in China which has resistance to every antibiotic known, and this has to be frightening for us all.

IMO the most frightening statistic is the fact that in the USA over 13,000,000 kg of antibiotics and antimicrobials are fed to livestock in one year alone and that constitutes about 80% of all of the antibiotics and antimicrobials being used/produced in the USA. And many experts have said that this is far below what is actually being used!!

What is more alarming is the fact that many of these drugs are given to the animals because it fattens them up, plus of course it helps protect them from disease because they are kept in horrendous conditions.

In the case of Thailand, I agree with many of the posters in as much as doctors, hospitals and pharmacies will regularly dole out antibiotics for even the simplest of coughs, and it has become almost expected by the patients.

Many of the bargirls will regularly take a generic tetracycline for anything that ails them, from urinary tract infections through to sore throats and because their condition seems to get better within a few days, they then stop taking the medication and of course we get the cycle happening again. In addition, many of them don't want to spend their hard earned cash on medicines, so they buy the smallest dose possible (3 to 4 days) and as we know, this may well result in an improvement in the symptoms early on, but will not cure the infection entirely.

In some cases we farangs are not much better and I know of a few who will regularly buy antibiotics as soon as they get an inkling of a sore throat or cough, and one friend in particular had been taking augmentin for over three weeks to "cure his cough" and was not seeing any improvement, and when I suggested that he stopped taking that antibiotic because it wasn't doing him any good, he seemed amazed at my suggestion.

[mommysboy]

"So - yes - antibiotics, used properly are life savers.

Used irresponsibly may well render them usless for everyone....".

Yes we are pretty much on the same page. I think it is casual use of medicine that is the problem. If you have a headache, most likely the cure is stop doing what it is that is causing it, drink a bottle of water, and go to bed for an hour or two,better than popping a pill which likely just masks the symptoms. We all have to endure a degree of pain and suffering. Medicine should really be reserved for the bigger stuff or ongoing conditions. And headache vs migraine, well that's a different matter.

The only thing I am a bit tetchy about is when people become overly sentimental about the supposed goodness of nature. Misguided that, nature kills as well as cures. There's a healthy balance to be struck.

We all know the real reason why drugs are overused, because the only way drug companies can make them profitable is to mass produce and charge low prices to encourage mass consumption.

[mommysboy]

There was a news item on BBC a few days ago regarding antibiotic resistant bacteria, with a particular new strain of bacteria being found in China which has resistance to every antibiotic known, and this has to be frightening for us all.

IMO the most frightening statistic is the fact that in the USA over 13,000,000 kg of antibiotics and antimicrobials are fed to livestock in one year alone and that constitutes about 80% of all of the antibiotics and antimicrobials being used/produced in the USA. And many experts have said that this is far below what is actually being used!!

What is more alarming is the fact that many of these drugs are given to the animals because it fattens them up, plus of course it helps protect them from disease because they are kept in horrendous conditions.

In the case of Thailand, I agree with many of the posters in as much as doctors, hospitals and pharmacies will regularly dole out antibiotics for even the simplest of coughs, and it has become almost expected by the patients.

Many of the bargirls will regularly take a generic tetracycline for anything that ails them, from urinary tract infections through to sore throats and because their condition seems to get better within a few days, they then stop taking the medication and of course we get the cycle happening again. In addition, many of them don't want to spend their hard earned cash on medicines, so they buy the smallest dose possible (3 to 4 days) and as we know, this may well result in an improvement in the symptoms early on, but will not cure the infection entirely.

In some cases we farangs are not much better and I know of a few who will regularly buy antibiotics as soon as they get an inkling of a sore throat or cough, and one friend in particular had been taking augmentin for over three weeks to "cure his cough" and was not seeing any improvement, and when I suggested that he stopped taking that antibiotic because it wasn't doing him any good, he seemed amazed at my suggestion.

Yes for the first time even the acne bacteria seems to be becoming resistant to tetracyclines. This drug has been going 40 years or so and has never previously been a problem at all.

Coughs remain the most troublesome area. Most likely the biggest factors are fast lifestyle and air pollution. One can be changed, but the other is unrelenting.

[arunsakda]

If only they knew the benefits of "Colloidal Silver"!

[Jaggg88]

I rarely take antibiotics. I think twice in the past 5 years. That and sanitizing your hands every five minutes is the sure road to getting sick.

Dont understand sanitizing your hands bit! Can you explain ?

Keeping yourself too clean will not allow your own immune system to become experienced at fighting infections. When I was a young child my mother kept me scrupulously clean and did not let me play in the garden or get dirty, she was always washing my hands. Eventually I contracted Gastroenteritis and was 24 hrs from death as I couldn't keep any medicine down. The doctor told my mother she must allow me to play and get dirty so my immune system can become strong. Hope this explains.

Over use and incorrect use of antibiotics is a worldwide problem and will only be solved with education. My Thai wife takes antibiotics when she has a headache! I've tried to explain how bad this is but its just falls on deaf ears.

[MiKT]

I have met quite a few girls in Thailand that take antibiotics every day and from what they tell me most of their friends do the same

When you meet girls like that you need to be thinking "safe sex", "safe sex", "safe sex".

[BritTim]

I rarely take antibiotics. I think twice in the past 5 years. That and sanitizing your hands every five minutes is the sure road to getting sick.

On antibiotics, well done. On "sanitizing your hands", it depends what you mean. Thorough hand washing (using a non arnti-bacterial soap) at appropriate times is a very good idea.

[BritTim]

I have met quite a few girls in Thailand that take antibiotics every day and from what they tell me most of their friends do the same

When you meet girls like that you need to be thinking "safe sex", "safe sex", "safe sex".

With girls like that, I might be able to practice abstinence.

[BritTim]

Antibiotic resistance is a world wide problem, it does not just affect Thailand.

The "third world" is not only a risk to itself but to the rest of the world.

Some of the most dangerous antibiotic resistant organisms have originated in the third world because of poor antibiotic custody. The free sale of antibiotics to the general public and irresponsible use of antibiotics by medical professionals all contribute to the problem.

Urgent action is needed in the 3rd world to gain responsible control and use of antibiotics.

The World Health Organisation is working hard to achieve change.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

http://www.who.int/drugresistance/en/

http://www.who.int/drugresistance/documents/surveillancereport/en/

Yes, irresponsible use of antibiotics in the third world is a massive problem. What gets less attention (because it threatens the profits of farmers in the first world) is that irresponsible use of antibiotics in intensive animal farming causes probably even more development of resistant strains of bacteria.

[xylophone]

This from an article today in the NZ Herald and relates to my post #43.....

"Superbugs resistant to all antibiotics have spread to Europe for the first time - and they could already be in New Zealand, a senior Kiwi scientist warns.

The news comes the day after it was revealed a patient in Denmark has become infected with an untreatable form of salmonella.

Danish scientists also discovered untreatable bacteria in five samples of chicken imported from China via Germany.

Experts fear it is the start of a global epidemic of untreatable infections.

Dr Richard Doehring, a medical microbiologist in Christchurch, said he would be "very surprised" if the bacteria - found in a gene called MCR-1 - wasn't already here.

"It is only a matter of time before it shows up," he told the Herald on Sunday. "We import a lot of farmed meat and seafood and this is where superbugs would generally be found."

The announcement in Denmark comes three weeks after Chinese academics discovered superbugs had breached the last line of antibiotic defences for the first time, the Daily Mail reported.

Colistin - a drug classed as "critical" to human medicine - was until recently the only antibiotic to work after all others had failed. But the Chinese team identified the first germs to become resistant to the drugs and warned of the "inevitable" spread of superbugs.

Dr Doehring said Kiwi scientists had been expecting new strains of superbugs like MCR-1 to appear because Colistin is widely used in farming, particularly overseas. The more that antibiotics are used - in humans or animals - the greater the selection for bacteria resistant to them.

"The developments in China and now Europe means the genie is now well and truly out of the bottle," he said. "If you look for this bug in New Zealand, no doubt you will find it."

Dr Doehring said those most at risk of falling ill were people already on antibiotics, particularly the elderly.

He said an option would be to treat patients with a combination of powerful antibiotics at the same time but there was no guarantee it would work".