Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

[rooster59]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

SUZAN FRASER, Associated Press


ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Saturday voiced regret over Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane, saying his country was "truly saddened" by the incident and wished it hadn't occurred.

It was the first expression of regret by the strongman leader since Tuesday's incident in which Turkish F-16 jets shot down the Russian jet on grounds that it had violated Turkey's airspace despite repeated warnings to change course. It was the first time in half a century that a NATO member shot down a Russian plane and drew a harsh response from Moscow.

"We are truly saddened by this incident," Erdogan said. "We wish it hadn't happened as such, but unfortunately such a thing has happened. I hope that something like this doesn't occur again."

Addressing supporters in the western city of Balikesir, Erdogan said neither country should allow the incident to escalate and take a destructive form that would lead to "saddening consequences."

He renewed a call for a meeting with President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of a climate conference in Paris next week, saying it would be an opportunity to overcome tensions.

Erdogan's friendly overture however, came after he again vigorously defended Turkey's action and criticized Russia for its operations in Syria.

"If we allow our sovereign rights to be violated ... then the territory would no longer be our territory," Erdogan said.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu also said he hoped a meeting between Erdogan and Putin would take place in Paris.

"In such situations it is important to keep the channels of communication open," he said.

Putin has denounced the Turkish action as a "treacherous stab in the back," and has insisted that the plane was downed over Syrian territory in violation of international law. He has also refused to take telephone calls from Erdogan. Putin's foreign affairs adviser, Yuri Ushakov, said Friday that the Kremlin had received Erdogan's request for a meeting, but wouldn't say whether such a meeting is possible.

Asked why Putin hasn't picked up the phone to respond to Erdogan's two phone calls, he said that "we have seen that the Turkish side hasn't been ready to offer an elementary apology over the plane incident."

After the incident, Russia deployed long-range S-400 air defense missile systems to a Russian air base in Syria just 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey to help protect Russian warplanes, and the Russian military warned it would shoot down any aerial target that would pose a potential threat to its planes.

Russia has since also restricted tourist travel to Turkey, left Turkish trucks stranded at the border, confiscated large quantities of Turkish food imports and started preparing a raft of broader economic sanctions.

On Saturday Turkey issued a travel warning urging its nationals to delay non-urgent and unnecessary travel to Russia, saying Turkish travelers were facing "problems" in the country. It said Turks should delay travel plans until "the situation becomes clear."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-28

[Nerone]

That's when you <deleted> with the wrong guy...

[Harsh Jones]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

[manarak]

aah.. the old chestnut of regrets over the other party giving them a 15 second border incursion excuse for shooting down a plane, and hoping it doesn't happen again, because even if we regret it, we will do it again !

hollow talk, Mr. Islamofascist Erdogan !

[donnybay]

We all did things we later regret, but not on this scale

Secretly all the holiday resort and hotel workers are celebrating not having to put up with Russian tourists anymore

[heina]

We all did things we later regret, but not on this scale

Secretly all the holiday resort and hotel workers are celebrating not having to put up with Russian tourists anymore

And mister donnybay will be more then happy to pay their welfare checks when they come to Europe after loosing their jobs.

[Scott]

A post with a clip containing profanity has been removed.

[FritsSikkink]

he rolled over quickly

[craigt3365]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

[Familyaffairs]

Turkey shouldn't kow-tow to arrogant Russian agressors who have been violating Turkey's airspace umpteenth times, and been warned adequately, Russia had no qualms shooting down an American spyplane flying over its territory all these years ago, so now they get they got reciprocated by a NATO ally.

[Harsh Jones]

Turkey shouldn't kow-tow to arrogant Russian agressors who have been violating Turkey's airspace umpteenth times, and been warned adequately, Russia had no qualms shooting down an American spyplane flying over its territory all these years ago, so now they get they got reciprocated by a NATO ally.

That was a totally different federation. The USSR is not the same entity as Russia. The current federation put hand cuffs on Michail Gorbechov , the leader of the USSR

Edited November 29, 2015 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

The US and NATO's involvement in the middle east is what led to Russia's involvement.

Russia's involvement is legal under intl law.

[Krataiboy]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

I'll bet he does, now his cunning little scheme to throw a spanner in the works of Russian-American cooperation has backfired. The Turkish leadership has been exposed as a duplicitous weak link in the NATO alliance and should be summoned to account for their actions before the UN..

Clearly the Turks see ISIS as more likely than the US to unseat Assad and are acting as their NATO-insider "minders", while at the same time trying to drive a wedge between Putin and Obama, who were coming close to joining forces to defeat the jihadists and find a mutually acceptable solution to the Syrian problem.

Widespread allegations that the slippery Turkish leader's son has been making a killing by supplying ISIS with oil for their war machine also need to be investigated and the 60 mile wide convoy corridor being used for this covert stab-in-the-back operation closed immediately.

With friends like Turkey, who needs enemies?

Edited November 29, 2015 by Krataiboy

[Mbaki]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

Russia has done more to eliminate the ISIS threat in the short time since it entered the campaign than the whole time the coalition has.

[craigt3365]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

Russia has done more to eliminate the ISIS threat in the short time since it entered the campaign than the whole time the coalition has.

Perhaps. No good intelligence to prove this yet. But they're not just bombing ISIS. They're bombing everybody, including Syrian rebels opposed to ISIS. Great job Russia.

[Mbaki]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

Russia has done more to eliminate the ISIS threat in the short time since it entered the campaign than the whole time the coalition has.

Perhaps. No good intelligence to prove this yet. But they're not just bombing ISIS. They're bombing everybody, including Syrian rebels opposed to ISIS. Great job Russia.

Syrian rebels, or terroristis looking after their own agendas.

[geriatrickid]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

If the Russians do that, then they are breaking the agreements made with the coalition forces.

We all did things we later regret, but not on this scale

Secretly all the holiday resort and hotel workers are celebrating not having to put up with Russian tourists anymore

No they are not. They need the money. Do you think the lager louts from or the barely legal male chasers from the EU are that much better?

Turkey shouldn't kow-tow to arrogant Russian agressors who have been violating Turkey's airspace umpteenth times, and been warned adequately, Russia had no qualms shooting down an American spyplane flying over its territory all these years ago, so now they get they got reciprocated by a NATO ally.

You are right. The Russians have intentionally violated other countries airspace on a regular basis. Estonia, Finland, and Canada put up with it. What do the Russians need to send bombers to the coast of Canada? Why do the Russians send submarines into Swedish waters?

That was a totally different federation. The USSR is not the same entity as Russia. The current federation put hand cuffs on Michail Gorbechov , the leader of the USSR

What? Putin is as bad as the old USSR leadership. He has harassed and killed dissidents, aided and abetted the installation of a criminal oligarchy, and supported rogue regimes. The Soviets shot down the Korean civilian airliner murdering all the passengers. The Russians hands are bloodied with their involvement with the shooting down of the Malaysian B777.

[SgtRock]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

[geriatrickid]

The US and NATO's involvement in the middle east is what led to Russia's involvement.

Russia's involvement is legal under intl law.

Not one for recognizing facts are you?

Russia's involvement is to support the Assad regime.

Your claim that Russia's involvement under international law is at best, quite questionable. You certainly ignored a few facts didn't you? In order for the Russian presence to be "legal" it would have needed the benefit of a UN resolution or a "legal" request for assistance from the legitimate government of Syria. Here's where your claim falls apart;

- Multiple attempts to impose a cooling off period and an arms embargo were subject to a Russian Security Council veto.

- An effort was made to restrict the presence of foreign ground forces. This would have stopped Hizbollah and Iran from sending thousands of troops. Again, Russia threatened to use its veto.

- There are approx. 7 million refugees and displaced persons due to the Syrian conflict with 2 million+ in Turkey. This certainly would give rise to the legal basis to sponsor a UN resolution allowing intervention. Again Russia has blocked international agreement because it insists that its proxy armies from Iran and the Palestinian occupational militia of Hizbollah based in Lebanon who support Assad, be allowed to participate.

- The Assad government is no longer the legitimate government of Syria. Assad refuses to allow an election and his country is gripped by civil war. The majority of the population opposes him and he clings to power only because Hizbollah and Iran now have thousands of their personnel in Iran and because Russia is propping him up.

Erdogan may be a slimy quasi despot, but his airforce had every legal right to protect Turkish airspace, particularly when Russia was bombing non ISIL ethnic Turkmen. Syrian artillery has shelled Turkish villages in the past and Turkey refrained from retaliating. The Russian presence was just pissing on the Turks. The Russians thought they could keep bullying and they found out the hard way that some people with balls push back

Edited November 29, 2015 by geriatrickid

[craigt3365]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

I think the 400 civilians killed by Russian airstrikes might argue with this. Along with probably a majority of the population who wants Assad gone. It's a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Blame normally lies at the top.

[geriatrickid]

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

Assad is no longer the legitimate leader of Syria. See above for explanation.

Russia was involved in Syria long before it deployed its bombers. For the past 4 years it has been the key arms supplier to Assad. It's financing has propped up Assad for years.

Do you take everyone to be idiots when you to assert that ISIL only came into the Russian sights following the downing of the Russian plane on October 31? It took 2 weeks to establish that it was a bombing and in case you forget, the Russians had insisted there was no bomb. Russia went so far as to retaliate against the USA for suggesting that a bomb was involved. Russia was bombing anti Assad forces in September. The Russians had 600+ military personnel at the Syrian Latakia airbase in September.

The issue the west has with Russia is not the air missions. It is the fact that Russia wasn't targeting only ISIL. Russia was laying waste to areas where the FSA was operating. Russia was also bombing anti Assad Turkman villages.

[SgtRock]

craigt3365, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:21, said:

SgtRock, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:04, said:

Quote

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

I think the 400 civilians killed by Russian airstrikes might argue with this. Along with probably a majority of the population who wants Assad gone. It's a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Blame normally lies at the top.

Truth is the first casualty of war.

Who gets to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist in civilian clothing ? Who's version of the truth is this ?

Along with probably a majority of the population who want Assad gone. Hardly a convincing argument. Even though I will concede that it COULD be true.

It is a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Was it a failed state for the first decade or so ? If not, why not and what has changed ? Assad is one of the reasons why Syria is now a failed State, he is certainly not the only reason.

[SgtRock]

geriatrickid, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:31, said:

SgtRock, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:04, said:

Quote

Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

Hindsight and reflection are two wonderful abilities.

There are also a few points that should also be taken into consideration.

1. Whether you agree or not Assad is the current ruler of Syria. He has invited Russia into Syria to assist him against a conglomerate of Islamic groups who are trying to depose him.

2. Russia, initially had no real interest in IS. They only came into Russian sights after the downing of the plane on the Sinai peninsula.

The West would do well to step back and let Russia deal with this.

Assad is no longer the legitimate leader of Syria. See above for explanation.

Russia was involved in Syria long before it deployed its bombers. For the past 4 years it has been the key arms supplier to Assad. It's financing has propped up Assad for years.

Do you take everyone to be idiots when you to assert that ISIL only came into the Russian sights following the downing of the Russian plane on October 31? It took 2 weeks to establish that it was a bombing and in case you forget, the Russians had insisted there was no bomb. Russia went so far as to retaliate against the USA for suggesting that a bomb was involved. Russia was bombing anti Assad forces in September. The Russians had 600+ military personnel at the Syrian Latakia airbase in September.

The issue the west has with Russia is not the air missions. It is the fact that Russia wasn't targeting only ISIL. Russia was laying waste to areas where the FSA was operating. Russia was also bombing anti Assad Turkman villages.

- The Assad government is no longer the legitimate government of Syria. Assad refuses to allow an election and his country is gripped by civil war.

Do you really think it would be possible to hold elections at this time in Syria ?

[craigt3365]

Truth is the first casualty of war.

Who gets to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist in civilian clothing ? Who's version of the truth is this ?

Along with probably a majority of the population who want Assad gone. Hardly a convincing argument. Even though I will concede that it COULD be true.

It is a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Was it a failed state for the first decade or so ? If not, why not and what has changed ? Assad is one of the reasons why Syria is now a failed State, he is certainly not the only reason.

I doubt many of these children were actively engaged in war:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/syria-monitoring-groups-russian-air-strikes-kill-400-civilians-151122063024984.html

Russian air strikes 'killed over 400 Syrian civilians'

At least 97 children among casualties of military operations which began in late September, two monitoring groups say.

Syria was a failed state before the Arab uprisings that started all this. Thus, the uprising by the citizens of Syria. They didn't start these protests because things were going great!

[SgtRock]

craigt3365, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:42, said:

SgtRock, on 29 Nov 2015 - 12:35, said:

Truth is the first casualty of war.

Who gets to differentiate between a civilian and a terrorist in civilian clothing ? Who's version of the truth is this ?

Along with probably a majority of the population who want Assad gone. Hardly a convincing argument. Even though I will concede that it COULD be true.

It is a failed state and Assad is the reason why. Was it a failed state for the first decade or so ? If not, why not and what has changed ? Assad is one of the reasons why Syria is now a failed State, he is certainly not the only reason.

I doubt many of these children were actively engaged in war:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/syria-monitoring-groups-russian-air-strikes-kill-400-civilians-151122063024984.html

Quote

Russian air strikes 'killed over 400 Syrian civilians'

At least 97 children among casualties of military operations which began in late September, two monitoring groups say.

Syria was a failed state before the Arab uprisings that started all this. Thus, the uprising by the citizens of Syria. They didn't start these protests because things were going great!

Failed State on who's definition ? Was Egypt a failed State ? Look what happened with their Arab Spring. Disaster and further Military intervention. You are aware of that old saying '' The grass is not always greener ''

It is indeed tragic when children and innocents get caught up in wars that are nothing to do with them. It is not a phenomenon that is specific to Syria, it happens in every theatre of war. It is exacerbated by the tactics that are used, especially hiding amongst the civilian population.

The West have been guilty on too many occasions of trying to foist Western type democracy on other Nations. They do not seem to have the collective braincells to work out that this type of democracy are not suited to certain Countries.

If we wish to apportion blame, at least have the decency to apportion it correctly.

[connda]

" Erdogan calls on Moscow. Once, twice. No answer. The third time, the answering machine at the Kremlin answers:
- If you want to apologize, press 1. If you want to discuss details of the incident on the border with Syria aviation, press the 2 key.
Unwilling to apologize, Erdogan Press 2. After a few seconds of silence, the robot voice says:
- Decision imposing a trade embargo by Turkey has been activated. If you want to apologize, press 1. If you want to discuss details of the incident on the border with Syria aviation, press 3.
Unwilling (yet!) To apologize, Erdogan Press 3. After the necessary break, the robot says:
- The decision commissioning system S-400 air defense in Syria has been activated. If you want to apologize, press 1. If you want to discuss details of the incident on the border with Syria aviation, press 4.
While the two key undecided, Erdogan hears the voice telephone NATO commander in Europe, Gen. Philip Breedlove:
- "What the hell!? Press 1. The 4 key activates the thermonuclear intercontinental ballistic missiles and kills us all!"
Erdogan Presses 1 to hear Putin laughing
Putin:- See, buddy? NSA intercepts conversations just like I thought.

[Calach]

Well, if didn't wish it hadn't happened, Russia would have made him anyway.

[Baerboxer]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

The coalition bombs are "smarter" - they only kill and maim terrorists not innocent civilian then?

Syria - where the US wants to remove the democratically elected Assad. Just like it supported the removal of the elected Ukraine president and the elected Egyptian government.

Russian air crew, if the plane did enter Turkish air space, were blown out the sky for their mistake by a regime which supports ISIS, buys their oil, and regularly makes incursions into other countries air space.

American air crew bomb a hospital - oh well, mistakes happen, Sorry.

No doubt the Russians have their own agenda, as do Turkey. But so does the US and European countries. And it seems only Russia supports the idea the Syrian people should be allowed to vote for who they want.

There is a lot of hypocrisy and Russia isn't the only country that's doing it.

[Baerboxer]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

Russia has done more to eliminate the ISIS threat in the short time since it entered the campaign than the whole time the coalition has.

Perhaps. No good intelligence to prove this yet. But they're not just bombing ISIS. They're bombing everybody, including Syrian rebels opposed to ISIS. Great job Russia.

"No good intelligence" - but you know who the Russians are bombing. As opposed to the coalition who only bomb legitimate ISIS targets, er, well the the odd mistake, but hey, collateral damage happens.

We only know what is released on the media - unless you have separate sources of course.

[Lukecan]

I cant believe that Russia is seen as a force opposing terror. Not only that long ago, Russian insurgents brought down a civilian airline killing well over 200 people. They annexed Ukraine. Once ISIS is cleared out, Russia will use Syria as its puppet to strengthen its presence in Middle East.