Turkish president says wishes plane downing had not happened

[Harsh Jones]

Because he exposed a state secret. Turkey did not admit it was helping the turkmen rebels until that incident. After that it had to admit to the world.

Well after a quick lookup on Wikipedia that doesn't seem to be the case:

On March 15, 2015, the official Turkmen governor of Mosul, Iraq before the ISIL took over the city, Esil Nuceyfi, recently stated and confirmed that the Turkish Special Forces Command, especially Maroon Berets and military specialists are training Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria. He reported the location of the training camps in Iraq as the Iraqi Turkmen Front and other Iraqi officials have reached on an agreement which allows the training of Turkmens by Turkey and creation of an official Turkmen Brigade under the Iraqi army which will be commanded by an Iraqi Turkmen, under the right to guarantee by the Republic of Turkey, nevertheless he didn't give out the location of Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.^[10][11] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.

Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria

Emphasize mine.

You speak of the dangers of social media. Yet you totally disregard the dangers of fundamentalism, and the danger of supporting them for your end goals. Your ignorance is a spit in the face of all the dead people in Paris.

And you still haven't answered me about the ISIS oil trucks. Where do you figure their physical oil and subsequent oil revenue went to?

It wasnt the turkmens who carried out the paris attacks. Everyone in that area would be considered a fundamentalist by western standards , even assad supporters and the kurds.

BTW, a new Paris is happening every single week in the middle east. Just today a russian airstrake killed 40 civilians in Idlib.

Counting Paris and the Russian airliner bombing, we are up to 350+ civilians. Then the 120 killed in Mali.

[khunken]

The west is being a hypocrite by supporting dictators in the gulf and saudi arabia and trying to topple assad at the same time.

On that I agree.

However this doesn't change the fact that Assad is bombing his own people and commiting war crimes.

No more than Erdogan is bombing his (second-class) own people - the Kurds and has been doing it for far longer than Assad.

[Lukecan]

The west is being a hypocrite by supporting dictators in the gulf and saudi arabia and trying to topple assad at the same time.

On that I agree.

However this doesn't change the fact that Assad is bombing his own people and commiting war crimes.

No more than Erdogan is bombing his (second-class) own people - the Kurds and has been doing it for far longer than Assad.

You have no clue about Turkish politics. Over 50% of kurds vote for erdogan, he is in power because of them. If it weren't for the kurdish support he wouldn't of been the president.

So you're telling me Kurds are voting for a guy that bombs them? Don't worry, visa waiver agreement is about to be signed with the EU soon, you're gonna see a lot of those kurds in Europe very soon. I'm sure you're going to like them.

[Publicus]

Yep. I am sure all of the coalition aircraft that now get to hear the sound of Russian radar lock over Syria are non too happy with him.

Russian S-400 missiles turn most of Syria into no-fly zone, halt US air strikes

http://www.debka.com/article/25048/Russian-S-400-missiles-turn-most-of-Syria-into-no-fly-zone-halt-US-air-strikes-

November 1st US Marine forces and personnel totaling 2200 arrived in the Med from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit in the USA. Marine AV8-B Harrier fighter jets Thursday launched yet more attacks against Daesh from the amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge.

Aircraft carrier USS Harry S Truman and its six ship strike force left the United States today (after Thanksgiving Holiday Thursday) for the eastern Med. It will join with a flotilla of French Navy ships to include the French carrier Charles de Gaulle. The two forces will coordinate air strikes against ISIS.

U.S. and coalition airstrikes against the Islamic State group will continue despite Russia’s decision to send advanced S-400 surface-to-air missiles to Syria, said the commander of U.S. Air Forces Central Command.

“Yes, it does complicate things a little bit, and we’ll put some thought to it, but we still have a job to do here, and we’re going to continue to do that job – to defeat Daesh [the Islamic State group],” Lt. Gen. Charles Brown Jr. told Air Force Times on Wednesday.

While the U.S.-led coalition and Russia are both operating in Syrian airspace, they are not coordinating or cooperating, Brown said.

http://www.airforcet...enses/76365340/

[Publicus]

Yep this is precisely the photo I was talking about. Those two guys right there are the owners of the joint called Cigeristan(Liveristan in English)

Their names are ali kember and ismail kember.

Below are the same guys.

This proves how dangerous social media can get.

Ok, my bad. Point taken. Although it does not rule out the ties between Turkey and ISIS. Two days ago two journalists were arrested for treason for publishing an article that Turkey arms and funds ISIS.

Again that news is BS as well. That truck was indeed delivering arms, but not to ISIS. To the turkmen rebels. Turkmen rebels are a whole different story, they are openly supported by Turkey.

Turkmen rebels are just just trying to take something because its there. Fog of war. They are aggressing on the legit govt of Syria.

Hey Harsh, take a deep breath.

This discusses a central aspect of what happened and why.

It is why Erdogan will not apologise. Apologising is the same as allowing Putin run free to impose his demented will. Either one produces the same result, which is a severely diminished Turkey. The bottom line for the always up tight Erdogan is that there are more allies, security, stability, prosperity, global clout in Nato and with Nato countries then there is with Russia.

CCP China is not a player in this. Brics have no mortar.

After Assad’s forces downed a Turkish RF-4 reconnaissance plane over the Mediterranean in June 2012, Ankara implemented new rules of engagement with dubious legal standing against Damascus. For the past three-and-a-half years, Turkey has brought down more than half a dozen Syrian fighter jets, helicopters and UAVs for allegedly violating its airspace.

The latest incident is a culmination of that tug-of-war and Turkey’s desire to help its clients in Syria. Following the arrival of the Russian air contingent on Syria’s Mediterranean coast in September 2015, one Russian aircraft briefly violated Turkish airspace, a Syrian MiG-29 locked on Turkish F-16s flying inside Turkey and the Turks shot down what is believed to be a Russian-made UAV within their territory on October 16.

During these episodes, Russian Air Force assets meant to show the Turks that their support for anti-Assad rebels was not welcome. For Turkey, putting pressure on Russian air operations in Syria was a way to reassure the rebel groups under its aegis to keep fighting the Assad regime.

http://nationalinter...ould-fear-14447

Edited November 29, 2015 by Publicus

[khunken]

The west is being a hypocrite by supporting dictators in the gulf and saudi arabia and trying to topple assad at the same time.

On that I agree.

However this doesn't change the fact that Assad is bombing his own people and commiting war crimes.

No more than Erdogan is bombing his (second-class) own people - the Kurds and has been doing it for far longer than Assad.

You have no clue about Turkish politics. Over 50% of kurds vote for erdogan, he is in power because of them. If it weren't for the kurdish support he wouldn't of been the president.

So you're telling me Kurds are voting for a guy that bombs them? Don't worry, visa waiver agreement is about to be signed with the EU soon, you're gonna see a lot of those kurds in Europe very soon. I'm sure you're going to like them.

You are actually denying that Turkey bombs the Kurds (PKK version) which is not the truth. Kurds are regularly being killed within Turkey too - only last week there was another murder.

All you are doing is touting propaganda (& lies) in support of Turkey and your credibility is zero. BTW I live in Thailand so I won't be seeing the faux Kurds that your crystal ball is foretelling.

[craigt3365]

I think the first lock on a coalition plane with a registered flight plan will result in a huge backlash. It was predicted Russia's involvement in Syria would lead to problems. And it sure has. Nothing good has come out of their involvement, other than bombing anti-ISIS groups and innocent civilians.

The whole problem started when U.S started meddling. Iraq and Syria were stable countries that did not have problems with fundamentalism. Now we have millions of Syrians and Iraqis displaced risking their lives trying to get to Europe, and the tax payers of Europe has to foot the bill for this insanity.

Nothing good has come of their involvement? Are you kidding? Numerous terrorists groups are on the run, and the Syrian government is retaking territory. In this month alone Russia has wiped out over a 1000 oil trucks that illegally sells oil to Turkey, effectively cutting out ISIS's main source of income. The Russians will see to it that this war ends so Syrian people can return, so that Europe won't be bogged down paying for these refugees.

And why did U.S start to target these oil shipments after the Russians? They've been bombing Syria illegally long before the Russians. Why didn't they reprimand Turkey and Saudi Arabia for arming and financing ISIS? I think the answer is obvious. For them ISIS is just a part of an end game, to get rid of Assad like they got rid of Saddam. You really ought to ask yourself, is the price worth it? I bet the relatives of the dead people in Paris or the passenger on the Russian passenger jet do not think so.

Not to mention the cesspool that Libya is right now.

The middle east has had problems with radical Islamists for many years. The US didn't create them, but did create an environment for them to grow. Assad's repression of his people also helped. Can't blame one entity for this mess. Though many would like to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_uprising_in_Syria

The Islamist uprising in Syria were a series of revolts and armed insurgency by Sunni Islamists, mainly members of the Muslim Brotherhood from 1976 until 1982. The uprising was aimed against the authority of the secular Ba'ath Party-controlled government of Syria, in what has been called a "long campaign of terror".^[4] During the violent events Islamists attacked both civilians and off-duty military personnel, and civilians were also killed in retaliatory strike by security forces. The uprising had reached its climax in the 1982 Hama Islamic uprising.^[5]

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic and abide by forum rules. NO public comments about moderation. Please use the PM function.

[Pakboong]

It is a given that ISIS, ISIL or Daesh operate in the field as a terrorist Army. Every army, theirs included, needs all the support features of any other army. Whichever state(s) is/are providing Medical, Training, Command, Control, Communication, Recruitment, Logistics, Food Service, etc.. Pretty much any force will need about 1.2 support elements per every 1 maneuver element.

We talk of ISIS as being a self contained organization which of course, they are not. They get all their support from somebody else which is expensive to say the least. But, that someone else has to maintain a cover story that can explain how ISIS is funded. I saw an amount the other day as to how much money ISIS has made from oil The $800 million was big but not likely. ISIS doesn't even feed themselves, how are they running a world class Oil operation which mysteriously pays all their bills.

Try and imagine their command and control structure. Some guy shows up and says he wants to join. They give him a weapon and tell him to jump into one of the Toyota pickups. Anybody who has ever been involved in something that big should be pretty sure that something about the story is just not right.