Thai aviation safety overhaul to be completed by Aug 2016

[torpedo1970]

So funny! they are trying to put on a brave face, may pen rai Thai stopped flying to US

Smoke and mirrors.....

same goes for bangkok airways...

for example Thais partnership in * alliance gives them many code-share agreements.

As soon as EU downgrades them too.... most of these are null and void....

Oh European business is only one third of our business....

come on man that is actually 33.3 % and you don't care?

Thainess

We will never understand

[newnative]

Well, we now know what 'immediately' means in Thailand--about 9 months.

[trogers]

Thai attitude of today is just a carry on from their school days of the 'No-fail' policy...

[recycler]

Well, the aviation techies will need to learn English first in order to understand the bad bad farang reports!

They also have to learn English to read the maintenance manuals....

[Danjel]

Hi guys. I'm due to fly in a couple of hours, and have planned to return December 27, from Europe. What will it mean, if they get the red flag from Europe as well? No flight home? That my ticket is useless?

Hope someone can clear this up for me.

Cheers

Dan

[Jiggo]

What will they have to spend the 700 Bt Airport tax on the Airport safety and flight services.......dream on

[Jiggo]

Hi guys. I'm due to fly in a couple of hours, and have planned to return December 27, from Europe. What will it mean, if they get the red flag from Europe as well? No flight home? That my ticket is useless?

Hope someone can clear this up for me.

Cheers

Dan

I would not think so.....Thailand will get another timeline to put things right....

[fred Kubasa]

Do they think "qualified" jet engine mechanics are at every corner with signs, ( will repair

jet engines for food) ! It takes years to certify such a mechanic and even were a few available,

Thailand couldn't/wouldn't offer 1/2 the pay and benefits others can and do. August will come and go & another projection will be made.

[spidermike007]

Too much mai phen rai?

Also too many downgrades what with fishing bans, human trafficking, etc.

There was a time when Thailand was shooting forward and trying and achieving international standards. Now they seem to have degenerated. Maybe its arrogance, reverting back to old cultural habits or just plain I am going to do things my way?

There are so many reasons. First among them is the ongoing arrogance associated with the denial of the need to learn english, and to teach it effectively. When you have major members of the administration proposing a cutback in the number of foreign teachers who are teaching english, with a straight face, you have an indication of the vastness of the problem, and the level of ignorance of the associated parties to the problem. Next, the complete refusal of the past several administrations, in addressing traffic safety. Word is getting around, and people around the world know that Thailand is second only to Libya, in road deaths, and traffic accidents. Third, the complete lack of law enforcement, throughout the country, and the hazards associated with an inept, incapable, inefficient police department, lacking in expertise, smarts, training, budget, and more. Fourth, you have a youth that is not getting properly educated, due to a failed educational system. Where does that lead to? Fifth, you have ongoing human trafficking problems, that I doubt are being sufficiently addressed. Add to that the tourist scams, the increasing prices, the military junta, that does not want to give up power, the immigration challenges, neighbors that are serious about improving, and attracting more tourists and more investment, and doing the right things to do so (with the exception of Indonesia, the bad boy of the region) and you have quite a mix of issues, that nobody is serious about addressing, beyond the daily proclamations.

[waldroj]

The simple question that has to be answered is, why is the deadline five months late?

If those in charge can't answer this question satisfactorily then their services should be dispensed with.

Accountability at the upper levels of the civil service must become the norm (not the rare exception) if this country is to have any hope of being competitive with the rest of its ASEAN neighbours.

The junta-head needs to bang some heads in order to get this message across.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I think China will threaten the downgrade too, so they can have Thailand by the $$$$$

This is the next logical step. Even more so than Europe.

[Tatertot]

how does one retroactively trace what maintenance has or has not been done on a aircraft, with thousands of parts, without proper records?

One can't. Without proper records, the scope of inspection, repair and replacement, of parts with unknown histories, would be significant if not prohibitive in cost.

[stoffel45]

so those who fly Thai will have to pay even more for a seat (increase in leasing costs, and insurance premiums), the other carriers must be rubbing their hands together and enjoying this.

The problem is going to be that those who go to other carriers will find it hard to go back to Thai once they have tried airlines like Qatar, Oman, Eva, Emirates, Etihad just to name a few.

Three of us in Business Class were due to fly THAI later this month. My wife canceled it this morning and we are all a bit sad, "It's like starting our Thai holiday from the moment we board the THAI flight" says my wife.

A few months ago we flew Austrian - only because, in business class it was a saving of 2,800 euro compared to THAI.

The lounges in Brussels and Vienna were like work cafeterias, the service on board Austrian was appalling, though the food was good. Their lie flat beds are not as good as THAI.

I agree with you that Etihad and Emirates offer a far superior product.

Baggage allowance with THAI in Business Class is 40 kg. British Airways offer 96kg and even Austrian 64 kg.

But the ultimate NO NO - is when we are faced with a decision to fly THAI based on SAFETY in accordance with International standards.

Now come on THAI - sack your whole Board - the LOT of them.

Replace them with people who KNOW how to run an Airline - even import some farang with experience.

Copy the Mid East airlines - they have the BEST product in the World and they are flying full. (ISIS permitting)

It is a huge DISGRACE to be downgraded to Cat 2.

Those who are saying, "Well it's no big deal really - we don't have flights to the USA any more" - Fire them first!

[MaxLee]

Deadlines that keep moving aren't deadlines. They are confirmation of incompetence.

or an implication of FACE-TY first

[Tatertot]

Enough of this, will some agency please publish a specific list of the problems with the DCA (Department of Civil Aviation) and/or airlines. In my Consulting Business I have Audited/Inspected most of the major airlines in the world and Thai Airways International is as good or better than most .

So how about some specifics instead of, "Oh, the Elephant has a problem" !!

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/eturbonews1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eturbonews.com%2F58371%2Fthai-airways-safety-log-may-destroy-airline-and-tourism-industry&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.th%2F#2670

Even more important, in the beginning of the negotiations, AvCon had its engineers look at the aircraft using video borescopes it was to make offers on. Two of the aircrafts engines required an overhaul, and C4 checks had not been done although the airlines specifications not only did not reveal that information, but went even further indicating the C4 checks had been completed.

Secondly AVCON's engineer complied missing log files, missing component tags, mismatches of serial numbers in the records and actual serial numbers of components installed in HS-TLD.

The list contained over 200 items of such cases and was growing untill the date AVCON stopped working because HS-TLD's C4 check was stopped at 80% completion and parked outside hanger.

The letter stated AVCON can't imagine the true level of such cases on 3 other A340-SOO's as well as the entire THAI fleet. A huge safety issue could be the result.

[silent]

Well, the aviation techies will need to learn English first in order to understand the bad bad farang reports!

No the problem is the rest of the world needs to learn Thai

[Tatertot]

Us old airkraft mechanics who can read write and understand Engrish, and have some idea about what's behind those nice interior walls, are afraid,,,, very afraid.

Be sure to fasten and wear your seat belts and know where the emergency exits are.

Safe travels.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/airlines-do-fixes-cheap-sending-planes-abroad-unlicensed-mechanics

n NPR investigation found that in airplane fix-it shops across Costa Rica, China, Ethiopia, Argentina, Kenya, El Salvador and Indonesia, among other countries, the mechanics who deconstruct and reassemble planes are, overwhelmingly, not certified by the FAA. The majority also dont speak fluent English, despite having to rely on technical manuals written in English, as nearly all flight materials are.

And Thailand?

[swerver]

The word PM (Preventative Maintenaance) has never been translated and placed in Thai Dictionaries.

Having been involved in maintenance engineering training not for days or weeks but for decades I'm talking from personal work experience.

You can do all the training you want with Thais they will never pass it on to the ones that come after them, I can write you a list as long as your arm of cases I have experienced in Thailand.

Thais buy things whatever it is, use it till it breakdown and buy another new one or as in the case of capital equipment they trade it in for a new one i.e. trucks, buses you see them breakdown along the AH-19 AH-23 Thailand's major international Hiway. Many of the breakdown are started by the Thais topping up the engine cooling system COOLANT put in at the factory and must never be diluted with water, but topped up with coolant and from there on out the problems keep multi[plying.. Truck and Bus manufacturers don't care they just keep trading, fix the problem and sale the used vehicle to Laos, Cambodia and other developing countries.

[waldroj]

Both Somtamnication and Tatertot have touched on something that is not restricted to Thai carriers, but is critical in an aircraft emergency! That is, will your cabin crew speak your language when your life may depend on understanding what is being said!

My guess is that the cabin crew will revert to their native tongue (if they have the fortitude to be capable of responding at all).

Justification for flying with your home country's airlines, and being confident they adhere to appropriate safety and maintenance standards.

[newnative]

They should all be fired and a top notch foreign company with foreign management and staff brought in to run things. Until the rating is raised, air passengers should vote with their pocketbooks and boycott Thai airlines. Money, and the loss of it, is the only thing that gets any attention here and if it starts to hurt maybe some action will actually be taken. Or not.

[sanukjim]

Ok.... funny that only few days ago they didn't know that they had to do any thing concerning the safety

of Thai aviation, but now already they announced completion by August...

You gotta give it ti the Thais, they either do nothing to fix the problem of finish fixing it in few months....

Step right up ladies and gentelmen it's the new rerun of the "Dog and Pony Show".2012/13/14/15/16/17/.Pick a year that suites you please.

[kannot]

Too much mai phen rai?

Also too many downgrades what with fishing bans, human trafficking, etc.

There was a time when Thailand was shooting forward and trying and achieving international standards. Now they seem to have degenerated. Maybe its arrogance, reverting back to old cultural habits or just plain I am going to do things my way?

its way more simple........they are bone idle and greedy

[kannot]

Since ages Thailand knows about the problem of the aviation system but just kept on going and not worry about the stupid comments from foreign countries.

But as we know, Thais only learn their lesson when it hurts!

So on my opinion it would be time to ban them from European airports as well and kick them out!

To overcome that situation it will take some more decades!

Mhhh yes all the foreigners and foreign countries don't understand!

We will never understand and not going to understand the stupid way of the Thai style they perform here in this country!

wait for the

"Thailand announces new routes to the third world Africa, Asia and umbongoland"

[kannot]

Well, the aviation techies will need to learn English first in order to understand the bad bad farang reports!

No the problem is the rest of the world needs to learn Thai

u cant learn "stupid" its inherited here

[tgeezer]

Addressing the points: they all boil down to the last one; sufficient numbers of 'aviation experts and trained officers'. I bet 'experts and trained officers' is key; I doubt that there is an insufficient 'number' of people in place, it is more likely that there are more than enough!

Providing experts and training might take some time unless it is bought-in, I wonder if the auditors know anybody who could help, maybe an early retiree from the FAA , that is who I would be looking for.

[geriatrickid]

Seems Thai aviation standards started downhill after the move from Don Muang. I wonder why...

Why cast aspersions when you haven't a pot to piss in? DMK was a congested airport that was unable to safely service its volume. The move to BKK provided electronic aids and data management systems that were modern and up to date. How can you claim that the worn and decrepit DMK was a hospitable and pleasant experience for travelers? It was hot, unsafe, unsecure, poorly ventilated and in need of a refurbishment. In case you missed it, DMK flooded several times. Has BKK ever flooded?

The aviation standards have deteriorated because investment in the infrastructure and training has not kept up with the growth of Thailand's industry. In case you missed it, much of Thailand's airline sector comes under direct or indirect control of the military.

[MaiChai]

I wonder if 10 or 15 years ago Thailand hired lots of foreign experts to assist with compliance to international standards, but in more recent times these people were dispensed with and replaced with locals, who should now have sufficient experience?

[Tatertot]

I wonder if 10 or 15 years ago Thailand hired lots of foreign experts to assist with compliance to international standards, but in more recent times these people were dispensed with and replaced with locals, who should now have sufficient experience?

That is one way that developing countries develop their economies, so it wouldn't be odd to find that that, had been the case.