Which supermarket?

[searcher22]

I used to shop a lot at local markets the first 3 years I lived here. I also got food poisoning 2-3 times a year back then (throwing up every 2 hours all the night, sometimes with diarrhea "thrown in" as a bonus). For the next 5 years I shopped only at Rimping and Makro - and had food poisoning only once, not a year, but in the whole 5 year period. Of course you have to take into account my body getting used to the local germs, but I still choose to stay clear of the local markets. Maybe I am unique in this experience, but I don't think so.

Same here. Used to get food poisoning about 4-5 times a year after eating at shopping mall food courts or buying at local markets. I've since been buying from Rimping and/or cooking my own food, and I rarely have any problems anymore. Also a concern for me...foods with too much sugar/salt, pesticide-laden veggies, reused and unhealthy oils, the lack of hygiene, no government oversight....all these factors have prompted me to cook more of my own food.

[Kathiejs]

When I was in Bangkok earlier this year I bought some split mung from Big C, to make dhal. When I rinsed it, the water turned bright toxic yellow - why the **** anybody would think it necesary to dye lentils is beyond me. It took several changes of water to get rid of the colour, but I dread to think what was still in there. I'm not normally into all that organic business, but maybe here I should be.

[Konini]

Most things like this you can get imported, but they cost a lot more. I haven't come across this myself, so obviously not all brands do it. Have you found Bombay stall on Wararrot market yet? I tend to get a lot of my beans/peas and wholemeal flour from him. Turnover is high enough for it never to have been a problem even for the most exotic of spices.

I meant to put in an earlier message but forgot and it's really important if you don't like waste. Make sure that any plastic containers for things other than salt and the like to get click clack type boxes. The ants and wheat flys (not sure what they are but they get into flour, pasta and I once found them in a still sealed pack of chick peas, meaning I went straight out, bought a load and transferred all of the dried bean and lentils over to them). They cost more but are worth it in the long run. Tesco very often has them buy one get one free, which obviously makes a big difference.

For the lots of smaller packs of dry groceries that I only use for baking, I have a big one that they all fit into, and an even bigger one for all the different types of flours - I bake all my own bread and use a lot of everything. I also use a mini-large one, probably unnecessarily for rice - the only basmiti I've seen (although I have to admit I haven't looked very hard as I found this one more or less as soon as we arrived) is in 10kg (?15kg?) sacks from Makro - having said that this was before I knew about the Bombay stall, he would almost certainly sell it but I haven't seen it anywhere else.

Another hint - and I've seen it several times here - even if your dry pasta is going to go into a click clack (and from a particularly horrible experience it should) put the packet into the freezer. I usually leave it for 24 hours, one per day if I'm running short on space in there. Make sure it's defrosted and completely dry before putting into the box. I used to wonder what people were talking about, I'd never heard of freezing pasta, until trying to trace a smell in the kitchen. It turned out to be a factory (Australian) sealed pack of wholemeal pasta, with a tiny hole - pinprick sized, but enough to expel a bit of dust when I lifted it and obviously enough for the rotten buggers to get in. Since then I've had an horrible phobia of them and don't like the thought of eating their eggs (I'm presuming that freezing them would kill anything on them before sealing in a click clack. My husband worked at a big bakery for years and said that the flour silo's were full of them. {Shudder}

(I'm quite sure that click clack isn't the proper word to use, but I don't know the right one and click clack makes a lot of sense to me).

[NancyL]

Konini -- so right! Friends are amazed with some of what I have in our refrigerator/freezer. Some of it is just to keep the cats out of it. (They actually try to get into the "click-clacks" of dry cat food and probably would succeed if given enough time.)

"Click-clack" I like that! You aren't Australian, are you? That sounds like something an Aussie would come up with.

So much better than "plastic food storage container" which is the term used in our household. As in, "when you do the dishes, honey, can you please put the leftovers into a plastic food storage container and into the freezer?"

And speaking of "click-clacks" why is it that you can never find the lid that goes with the container after you've put the food into it? I have an entire bin of lids and about 15 food storage containers, yet I can never get the right combo during the "heat of the moment". There doesn't seem to be standard sizes here in Thailand.

Perhaps it's because I've bought them at Chiang Mai Plastic where they never seem to have a complete set of one brand, but a mixture of different brands and sizes. But they're much cheaper than what's available at Central Dept. store.

[FolkGuitar]

. Have you found Bombay stall on Wararrot market yet? I tend to get a lot of my beans/peas and wholemeal flour from him.

Would you please give directions to this stall? Perhaps starting at the corner 7-Eleven?

Thanks.

[Konini]

My directions are shocking but here goes

From outside 7/11 walk down the street (towards Taipae Road? -parallel to the river) for maybe 50 meters. Over the road on you right side will be an opening into the dry food market - there is a Kasikorn ATM on the right side of the opening and (I think) a gold shop. Go past the women on your left selling veggies and towels if they are there and past the stall with cane baskets, which I will describe as the first 'block' as the cane stall is on a corner of aisles. Keep going to the next 'block' and you will be on the corner of the the next 'block' which is actually the first 'block' or aisle of the main drygoods market. Turn left at that corner and follow your nose - three or four stalls down but you'll smell it a long time before you see it. I've over-simplified that, but some people are even worse than me with directions (or so I'm told). I once spent almost an hour walking around looking for it, being able to catch a whiff of those spices every now and again but not quite finding it. I asked stallholders, they didn't understand Indian spices, so desperately I slowly and clearly said to a kindly looking one Mumbai, Calcutta, Delhi, then Bombay and that did it. "Ah, Bombay, Bombay' and they tried to get me on track, but I managed to stuff it up and and 2 others. As soon as I said Bombay they pointed. The odd thing is that at the time, I only knew it as the stall on the market that sells Indian stuff. I had no idea that it was called Bombay.

Don't ever buy nuts in that market - they are ridiculously priced (probably only for farangs and Chinese tourists), and the almonds have sugar on them even though they denied it, and kept on denying it after they had opened a packet and given me one to try. If they put sugar on their almonds, they could well be putting MSG in it (I know with shakes they put more sugar in to mask the saltiness of the MSG). Muang Mai for cashews and peanuts, Makro for others (Makro on the superhighway only has almonds, macadamias and walnuts, the Makro on Hang Dong road has hazelnuts, peacans and some other nut I can't remember the name of).

I'm not against MSG - I use it myself and have read studies where blind tests of subjects claiming an allergy to it have proved conclusively that it doesn't create a allergic reaction in anyone. It was an interesting read, can't remember which universities, I think a Canadian and a UK one did it jointly, telling the volunteer subjects that they were testing sensitivities and that the food may or may not contain MSG, on a random selection. Several groups, I forget how many people but enough to make it conclusive; each group was split into two, and one group was given random maybe, maybe not and the other group was the control. One week they didn't put MSG into any of the food, but several had reactions. The same groups of people the following were fed food with MSG, and a fewer number had reactions, then on the third week they again had no MSG at all and again got a few reactions. Not the same people having the reactions I wish I could find it, it was so interesting, but I want to control how much of it is going into the food, and I want my fresh ingredients fresh.

[Konini]

Konini -- so right! Friends are amazed with some of what I have in our refrigerator/freezer. Some of it is just to keep the cats out of it. (They actually try to get into the "click-clacks" of dry cat food and probably would succeed if given enough time.)

"Click-clack" I like that! You aren't Australian, are you? That sounds like something an Aussie would come up with.

So much better than "plastic food storage container" which is the term used in our household. As in, "when you do the dishes, honey, can you please put the leftovers into a plastic food storage container and into the freezer?"

And speaking of "click-clacks" why is it that you can never find the lid that goes with the container after you've put the food into it? I have an entire bin of lids and about 15 food storage containers, yet I can never get the right combo during the "heat of the moment". There doesn't seem to be standard sizes here in Thailand.

Perhaps it's because I've bought them at Chiang Mai Plastic where they never seem to have a complete set of one brand, but a mixture of different brands and sizes. But they're much cheaper than what's available at Central Dept. store.

I'm a Brit but lived in Melbourne for 20 years before coming to Asia. Where I come from all plastic storage is called Tupperware, I found I have to store them stacked with the lids on rather than inside each other because I lost so many lids. I got almost all of my click clacks from Tesco when they were on buy one get one free, starting with a few and topping them up every time we went and they were on special, but there are 2 separate brands and I don't think one will fit the other. The best way, rather than trailing around every week to see if they are on special, look it up on their website under promotions. Big C and Tops sites have a clickable buy one get one link.

We should really compile a list of things I wish people had told me when I first arrived in Chiang Mai - particularly for things like housekeeping and cooking. There are enough people on the forum to come up with real left of field things that we would never have thought of but that applies to others.

I would be willing to write the code for a mini site within a site and get pictures up (including photo's of some of the stranger exotic looking fruits and veggies and how to prepare or cook) if people think it's a good idea, could provide hosting if desperate but would rather not.

Good idea or not?

[FolkGuitar]

My directions are shocking but here goes

From outside 7/11 walk down the street (towards Taipae Road? -parallel to the river) for maybe 50 meters. Over the road on you right side will be an opening into the dry food market - there is a Kasikorn ATM on the right side of the opening and (I think) a gold shop. Go past the women on your left selling veggies and towels if they are there and past the stall with cane baskets, which I will describe as the first 'block' as the cane stall is on a corner of aisles. Keep going to the next 'block' and you will be on the corner of the the next 'block' which is actually the first 'block' or aisle of the main drygoods market. Turn left at that corner and follow your nose - three or four stalls down but you'll smell it a long time before you see it. I've over-simplified that, but some people are even worse than me with directions (or so I'm told). I once spent almost an hour walking around looking for it, being able to catch a whiff of those spices every now and again but not quite finding it. I asked stallholders, they didn't understand Indian spices, so desperately I slowly and clearly said to a kindly looking one Mumbai, Calcutta, Delhi, then Bombay and that did it. "Ah, Bombay, Bombay' and they tried to get me on track, but I managed to stuff it up and and 2 others. As soon as I said Bombay they pointed. The odd thing is that at the time, I only knew it as the stall on the market that sells Indian stuff. I had no idea that it was called Bombay.

Don't ever buy nuts in that market - they are ridiculously priced (probably only for farangs and Chinese tourists), and the almonds have sugar on them even though they denied it, and kept on denying it after they had opened a packet and given me one to try. If they put sugar on their almonds, they could well be putting MSG in it (I know with shakes they put more sugar in to mask the saltiness of the MSG). Muang Mai for cashews and peanuts, Makro for others (Makro on the superhighway only has almonds, macadamias and walnuts, the Makro on Hang Dong road has hazelnuts, peacans and some other nut I can't remember the name of).

I'm not against MSG - I use it myself and have read studies where blind tests of subjects claiming an allergy to it have proved conclusively that it doesn't create a allergic reaction in anyone. It was an interesting read, can't remember which universities, I think a Canadian and a UK one did it jointly, telling the volunteer subjects that they were testing sensitivities and that the food may or may not contain MSG, on a random selection. Several groups, I forget how many people but enough to make it conclusive; each group was split into two, and one group was given random maybe, maybe not and the other group was the control. One week they didn't put MSG into any of the food, but several had reactions. The same groups of people the following were fed food with MSG, and a fewer number had reactions, then on the third week they again had no MSG at all and again got a few reactions. Not the same people having the reactions I wish I could find it, it was so interesting, but I want to control how much of it is going into the food, and I want my fresh ingredients fresh.

Thanks, and perfectly understandable directions! I'll have no problem following them. I like to renew all my spices every few months as they lose their flavor quickly. I used to bring back lots when visiting S'pore frequently, but I don't get there so often these days.

As for the MSG, I too have read several well-conducted studies about it, and they all agree with the findings in your study. It's my opinion that often many of the people claiming allergy to MSG are simply playing 'Food Snob,' and haven't a clue when it has been added 'correctly' to a dish. Everyone can tell easily when it's been over-used. I met some visitors in Japan who said they were allergic to MSG and to fish, then watched them spend a week eating Japanese foods made with both... They just wouldn't order fish dishes but had no idea that the soups they were drinking with every meal were made with 'dashi.'

Thanks again for the directions. I'll go over there tomorrow.

[Kathiejs]

We should really compile a list of things I wish people had told me when I first arrived in Chiang Mai - particularly for things like housekeeping and cooking. There are enough people on the forum to come up with real left of field things that we would never have thought of but that applies to others.

I would be willing to write the code for a mini site within a site and get pictures up (including photo's of some of the stranger exotic looking fruits and veggies and how to prepare or cook) if people think it's a good idea, could provide hosting if desperate but would rather not.

Good idea or not?

A very good idea I think. I can't help with coding or hosting, but happy to give input or feed back on content from the new arrival's point of veiw.

Yes, it's tupperware for me too. My mother used to go to tupperware parties - the 1960s housewife really knew how to have a good time...

[cmsally]

If you want to test your allergic reaction to MSG, try the deep frozen gyoza in Makro. Just two of those laid me up for half the day.

I don't react well to MSG.

[Konini]

Buy seeds and grind or crush them if you can, they taste good for a lot longer. I use them often enough to justify a cheap coffee grinder that I use only for seeds, but a heavy bottomed glass bottle on a wooden chopping board does a fair job.

Even after showing a friend the MSG study I'd read, she still didn't believe me, and it's very easy to spot if it's over-used. You get incredibly thirsty and you can have that gnawing empty feeling in your stomach as well if enough is used. I don't tell people, it just goes in. I never used it when I lived in Aus or UK - access to the freshest of foods that you know are of the highest quality meant that it really wasn't necessary in my opinion, but here even a lot of the veggies can taste quite bland, and you can never be 100% certain of the meats - although you know that it is very, very fresh, you don't know if they were fed on scraps and rubbish and what they eat affects the flavour.

An earlier poster (or 2) mentioned having food poisoning - I've never had a problem and I wash meat, veggies and fish in tap water, including salad veggies that aren't going to be cooked. I've only ever had food poisoning once, hopefully never again, but it was a 4 star hotel in Bangkok. I know that for certain, because after breakfast I went to do last minute shopping and Mr K went for a wander and a massage, meaning the breakfast was the only meal we ate together before heading for home that night. Mine hit just after we arrived at the airport, I distinctly remember saying 'Thank God for priority check in because there's no way I can stand in that queue'. Thankfully we were very early and our flight was delayed a couple of hours I spent 4 hours throwing up and the other and trying to act normally because if you're ill they can stop you boarding. I was very, very sick and although I am a strong believer of get it out, let it all pass through your system, I had 2 packs of imodium in the final hour to make sure I was going to be OK to get on the plane. During this time, Mr K was helping himself to liberal amounts of Jim Bean, red wine and finger food. When you don't have to pay and I'm not there to say 'enough' he'll keep going. And he did. I told him to act sober as we got on. We were in the Qantas lounge but flying economy, and used our normal tactic - rear seat when in economy set in preferences, board last and sweep the aisles as you slowly walk down the cabin. I found a bank of 3 empty seats, we could see our bank of three was empty so I jumped into it. I took a sleeping tablet which knocks me out and turns me into a total zombie. 5 minutes after the seat belt sign was off, I was cold out. A few minutes later, a hostie is shaking me violently - these things really, really knock me out and I only ever use them for flying. When I woke up she looked relieved and said thank goodness, I thought something was wrong when you didn't wake up. Are you Mrs K? I'm sorry to bother you, and I don't want to alarm you but your husband is very, very ill. You need to come to the back of the plane. I know how ill I was. He had an extra 4 hours of munching and drinking after me - no wonder he was ill. It was the longest flight I've ever been on. They were on the radio or phone to a doctor, kept giving him things out of the medical box as instructed and all he wanted to do was sleep, but of course he couldn't. He had his own toilet reserved - they showed us how to move the vacant sign to occupied so nobody else could use it as when he had to go, he really had to go now. A few hours into the flight, a hostie came over and said that they had secured the permission to divert to Darwin and if he didn't improve in the next 30 minutes then they would. Thankfully, he started to get better, the medication - which wasn't working because he was vomiting straight away (exactly the same as I had been, and to be indelicate, the smell of both ends was distinctive and identical to how mine had been and after being violently ill for about 2 and a half hours, it started to get a little bit better, exactly the same as with me; further proof that whatever it was, it had to be something we'd both had and during the day we had both eaten and had water but in different places. He wanted to lie down all the time because of the stomach cramps and they kind of let him lie on the floor near the toilets while he was at his worst but when things had finally settled down they moved him to a flatbed in first class. We've had upgrades to business class before, but we've never been moved from business to first. So he was upgraded to first class and slept solidly for the remaining hours to Melbourne. All of this time, I was a walking zombie. I actually fell asleep standing up no less than three times, slumping into a wall each time thankfully. I had to keep moving, and it was very difficult particularly as I still felt poorly from the food poisoning.

We all get the runs or a little bit ill occasionally - I have guts of steel and it is very rare but Mr K has a sensitive tum and is often seen running towards the toilet - I reckon it's a ploy to get him out of doing the washing up, but it's just the runs, it's not food poisoning. Keeping the food preparation and pans very, very clean and doing the sniff test on pretty much everything just before cooking should keep it from happening in all except very unlucky circumstances. I don't like Thai food and cook every day - I've always cooked every day because I like cooking and I like to know everything that we're eating and I've never had a problem.

[Konini]

Yes, it's tupperware for me too. My mother used to go to tupperware parties - the 1960s housewife really knew how to have a good time...

I don't think we head had any actual tupperware, it was expensive if I recall rightly. But regardless, that's still what every plastic storage container was and still is called. I think it was in Australia too, I can't remember but it definitely was in New Zealand, although most of the people we lived around were expat Brits so maybe the locals picked it up from the poms.

We got caught during our first week in Wellington with an old trick. We were invited over - barbie at the weekend, bring a plate. I thought it was a bit odd, but we'd just arrived and I'd only bought a couple of plates so far, BBQ, (they were mostly unheard of in England in the mid-late 1980's), lots of people expected, not enough plates to go around. I honestly had no inkling that bring a plate means bring a salad or dessert. Everyone (who had all been victims themselves when they first arrived) was falling around laughing when we walked into the gate and I was carrying 2 plates. It was a good time - the company Mr K was working for had a couple of dozen bungalows for employees, not all together, really nice ones spread about in different areas with only 3 or 4 near each other. He was employed as a toolmaker and he had to buy a sledgehammer to go in his toolbox to sit alongside his prized, very expensive digital callipers. He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes, but there was an old massive gear cutting machine that hadn't worked for years as the longest serving bloke had 20 years service and it was old and not working knew. Nobody knew anything about it, how to work it even if they figured out how to get it going. All they knew, from a nameplate, that it was pre-war (I forget the year) and was made in Poland - the workshop was huge and still had the all mechanisms, wheels and pulleys up high for belts to drive the machines, probably nobody had used it since they took the machines off the belts. It took him months and months, he had to make all of the parts he needed, but he got it going. Haven't heard from anyone working there for a long time now, but it was still in use last time we saw someone from there. Really good times. Then Ron Brierly bought the company, said you're an engineering company not a real estate agency and sold off all of the units. Once the very heavily discounted rent was gone - it was $30 a week when a comparable one would have been $200 - they lost almost all of the expat workers. Nissan did a roadshow in Aukland and flew any European trained toolmakers to an interview at the exact right time, so a lot of us ended up leaving NZ - 12 in total, we were the last ones to go,a couple of weeks after the rest because Mr K knocked back the job at Nissan saying he would still need his sledgehammer and got a proper toolmaking job in Melbourne practically without trying. It speaks volumes as to what companies think of their own apprenticeship schemes when they prefer European trained. Can't say that of course, especially big companies - that would be discrimination, but there are dozens of small tooling rooms and general engineering shops around the west of Melbourne where we lived where the tradies were English, German, Yugoslav, Polish, Romanian - you name it, but no Australians.

[MESmith]

Of course its an advert from Passion...they are sponsors after all. And me being a red blooded guy love the look of their meat, havent had a decent medium raw (Not med rare) beef steak for ages. Partially due to the cost of good beef.

I think the advert is beautiful!

Well they've over done their sponsors adverts for me. Putting them on my ignore list. No more spam

[elektrified]

I can't believe some of you people would buy meat or poultry from a Thai Market! No one in my wife's family would ever do that.

Here are rats (that directly carry more than 35 diseases) http://www.cdc.gov/rodents/diseases/direct.html chewing on pork at Kad Muang Mai Market http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/rats-in-market-video-goes-viral-forces-market-clean-up-project-in-chiang-mai/

Edited December 15, 2015 by elektrified

[NancyL]

The only "meat" I buy from a Thai market are live fish that they club on the head, gut and fillet on the spot for me. Did that one time with Hubby along as the pack mule and he was totally turned off after that from my great salsa fish stew that I'd been serving him once a week with the local talipia from Tanin Market. He watched in horror as I greeted the fish vendors as old friends, picked out a particularly lively specimen and watched as they did the deed. His comment "I didn't know you got to know our dinner personally."

Bummer. It was an easy, peasy meal to fix. Cook up brown rice in the rice cooker. Meanwhile, dump a bottle of local salsa into a glass covered glass microwave cooking dish and add a few goodies like fresh okra (there's a lady at Tanin who keeps the best stuff under her table) cook until after the okra is soft, and throw in pieces of the fish, cilantro, some water and hit the cook button again on the microwave for 3 minutes. Take out and stir. Repeat for a few cycles until the fish is nice and flaky. Serve over the rice and call it Mama's Home Cooking.

Now he won't touch anything with fish unless I can show him it's frozen fish I've bought from Rim Ping or Makro.

[stillbornagain]

I used to shop a lot at local markets the first 3 years I lived here. I also got food poisoning 2-3 times a year back then (throwing up every 2 hours all the night, sometimes with diarrhea "thrown in" as a bonus). For the next 5 years I shopped only at Rimping and Makro - and had food poisoning only once, not a year, but in the whole 5 year period. Of course you have to take into account my body getting used to the local germs, but I still choose to stay clear of the local markets. Maybe I am unique in this experience, but I don't think so.

I still use Tops or Rimping for things I can't get at Tannin Market, I don't usually buy prepared foods at the fresh market, except for Vietnamese-style Spring Rolls, BBQ'd chicken and sausage. But all fresh veggies, pork, chicken, shrimp, etc. that I cook with each night come from the fresh market, and have for the past three years. So far, so good... not even a single case of the Green-apple Two-step in this family.

The thing is that most of these market that don't use refrigeration to display their meat so they often (usually?) use formalin to help keep the meat and seafood fresh. The formaldehyde in formalin is a potent carcinogen. It's been written about in a fair number of articles.

[pgrahmm]

I used to shop a lot at local markets the first 3 years I lived here. I also got food poisoning 2-3 times a year back then (throwing up every 2 hours all the night, sometimes with diarrhea "thrown in" as a bonus). For the next 5 years I shopped only at Rimping and Makro - and had food poisoning only once, not a year, but in the whole 5 year period. Of course you have to take into account my body getting used to the local germs, but I still choose to stay clear of the local markets. Maybe I am unique in this experience, but I don't think so.

I still use Tops or Rimping for things I can't get at Tannin Market, I don't usually buy prepared foods at the fresh market, except for Vietnamese-style Spring Rolls, BBQ'd chicken and sausage. But all fresh veggies, pork, chicken, shrimp, etc. that I cook with each night come from the fresh market, and have for the past three years. So far, so good... not even a single case of the Green-apple Two-step in this family.

The thing is that most of these market that don't use refrigeration to display their meat so they often (usually?) use formalin to help keep the meat and seafood fresh. The formaldehyde in formalin is a potent carcinogen. It's been written about in a fair number of articles.

We get our meat at Rimping & drive to one that has a fresh meat/seafood counter....

Never found the Makro meats satisfactory.....Mrs likes the fruits/veggies/fish at Makro.....

Local markets for some misc veggie stuff.....

[elektrified]

I used to shop a lot at local markets the first 3 years I lived here. I also got food poisoning 2-3 times a year back then (throwing up every 2 hours all the night, sometimes with diarrhea "thrown in" as a bonus). For the next 5 years I shopped only at Rimping and Makro - and had food poisoning only once, not a year, but in the whole 5 year period. Of course you have to take into account my body getting used to the local germs, but I still choose to stay clear of the local markets. Maybe I am unique in this experience, but I don't think so.

I still use Tops or Rimping for things I can't get at Tannin Market, I don't usually buy prepared foods at the fresh market, except for Vietnamese-style Spring Rolls, BBQ'd chicken and sausage. But all fresh veggies, pork, chicken, shrimp, etc. that I cook with each night come from the fresh market, and have for the past three years. So far, so good... not even a single case of the Green-apple Two-step in this family.

The thing is that most of these market that don't use refrigeration to display their meat so they often (usually?) use formalin to help keep the meat and seafood fresh. The formaldehyde in formalin is a potent carcinogen. It's been written about in a fair number of articles.

The Thai government recommends people not buy these meats and sea-foods as the Formalin is applied in such high doses and as said - is a carcinogen. The government was going around the markets a few weeks ago randomly testing the foods (like squid) for Formalin. In tow was a news camera crew. Almost all the tests were positive for Formalin.

We haven't had squid in Thailand in perhaps 7 years now. The Thai government recommends buying the squid imported from South America and not consuming the local variety.

[jobin]

Very few food 'poisonings' are due to heat stable toxins. And those usually found in prepared foods like potato salad, ham salad, etc. These food are made up and sit around in warm or cool temperatures and the bacteria grow and make the toxins.

Most food poisonings due to insufficient cooking of meats. So regardless of what the pork chop or steak looks like when you buy it (walked on by rats, infested with maggots, etc) , once fully cooked = all OK and safe to eat. Some food borne illnesses, raw foods, are linked to bad water used to irrigate the fields or wash the vegies. All such indicate exposure to animal waste (cow shit).

The claim of formalin additions to meat is more difficult to address. Natural levels of formaldehyde are found in most foods but in small amounts. To quote a report from the HongKong gov. "

The main health concern of formaldehyde is its cancer causing ability. The International Agency for Research on Cancer of the WHO classified formaldehyde as “carcinogenic to humans”, with consideration that there was sufficient evidence for causing nasopharyngeal cancer in humans, strong but not sufficient evidence between leukaemia and occupational exposure. The WHO, on the other hand, considered that the evidence indicated that formaldehyde was not carcinogenic upon ingestion. "

[FolkGuitar]

I used to shop a lot at local markets the first 3 years I lived here. I also got food poisoning 2-3 times a year back then (throwing up every 2 hours all the night, sometimes with diarrhea "thrown in" as a bonus). For the next 5 years I shopped only at Rimping and Makro - and had food poisoning only once, not a year, but in the whole 5 year period. Of course you have to take into account my body getting used to the local germs, but I still choose to stay clear of the local markets. Maybe I am unique in this experience, but I don't think so.

I still use Tops or Rimping for things I can't get at Tannin Market, I don't usually buy prepared foods at the fresh market, except for Vietnamese-style Spring Rolls, BBQ'd chicken and sausage. But all fresh veggies, pork, chicken, shrimp, etc. that I cook with each night come from the fresh market, and have for the past three years. So far, so good... not even a single case of the Green-apple Two-step in this family.

The thing is that most of these market that don't use refrigeration to display their meat so they often (usually?) use formalin to help keep the meat and seafood fresh. The formaldehyde in formalin is a potent carcinogen. It's been written about in a fair number of articles.

The Thai government recommends people not buy these meats and sea-foods as the Formalin is applied in such high doses and as said - is a carcinogen. The government was going around the markets a few weeks ago randomly testing the foods (like squid) for Formalin. In tow was a news camera crew. Almost all the tests were positive for Formalin.

We haven't had squid in Thailand in perhaps 7 years now. The Thai government recommends buying the squid imported from South America and not consuming the local variety.

I can't speak for other markets, but the Sri Wattana (Tannin Market) on Chang Puak Rd has all it's fresh meats and seafoods sitting on beds of ice. Usually colder when I buy them than what I find in the shelves at the supermarkets. The shrimp and squid are literally mixed in with cracked ice, and almost frozen! Formaldehyde has a very distinct odor, easily noticeable if present in any quantities. Rarely even see flies in the meat area of this market! However, I would be a bit leery of eating some of the prepared foods I see there... No telling how long they've been sitting around. But then, I don't often buy prepared foods, so it's not a problem. I imagine that at some time in the future either my wife or I (or both of us) may develop a case of the runs. That happens no matter where you shop, where you eat, or how careful you try to be. But it's going on three years that we've been eating meats, seafoods, and vegetables bought at Tannin Market, and so far, so good.

I have seen meats and seafoods for sale in various street markets that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole... Fly infested, smelly, generally looking pretty unhealthy. I'd like to think that the average shopper is intelligent enough to stay away from things like this, or from vendors who look as if they already have one foot in the grave. A little common sense goes a long way.