Rubber Trees

[udon]

Welcome Sooboo.

Pardon my ignorance..... what does Sooboo mean?

[buriramboy]

does anyone out there personally have a plantation that is currently being tapped, so we can get to the bottom of this revenue business once and for all?

maize farmer which crops will produce a better yield than rubber and can be grown in isan??

[RamdomChances]

does anyone out there personally have a plantation that is currently being tapped, so we can get to the bottom of this revenue business once and for all?

maize farmer which crops will produce a better yield than rubber and can be grown in isan??

The thing is mate, you will probaly never "get to the bottom" of it. Unless you have two identical farms in identical stuations. For instance the national ave milk probuction is about 10kg/cow/day, I get about 13 kg but from previous conversations I know MF gets more like 19 kg, so whats the correct figure ?

There is no hard and fast figures in farming, there are just too many variables. Looking at the gov fig's at 285 kg, I'd go with anything from 200-300kg, obviously it's best to base your figures at the low end then anything else is a bonus.

maize farmer which crops will produce a better yield than rubber and can be grown in isan??

Again Issan is a big place, you have to look at your particular needs and the type of land you have, going from MF's 1200 bhat/rai (which sounds perfectly reasonable to me) then yes there would probaly be few crops that would give you that sort of return. Then again what are the start up costs? Other crops you dont have to wait 5-7 years for a return on your investment, which for me would be the deciding factor.

Another factor is whats your long term stratergy, what is the life span of a rubber tree, I'm sure I've read a figure of something like 15 years productive life span. Now do you start again then or stagger the planting, if you dont stagger the planting it means every 15 years or so you have to wait another 7 years for your return, if you do stagger it then you wont be making money off your full 20 rai. Either way you can knock a third off your figures in the long term although this will be offset by the selling of the timber

For me personaly there are just too many variables in waiting 7 years to get a return on a crop ( not that I could afford to anyway ) Who knows what the state of the market will be when you actually come to sell it.

[Maizefarmer]

CHOWNAH – neg I am not out of touch with the cost of living in Thailand. Granted, you are correct that 80K is a fair whack by Thai standards.

But it is not much if you have a mortgage to pay, if you have a car to pay, if you have a family to support, school fees to pay and your retirement to think of. I would then suggest that for a farang – well, if one is happy with 80K a month and can cover all their living costs plus save for retirement, that’s fine. I certainly would want to be in that position, but I am speaking for myself and I am thinking 20 -30 years down the road. I’ll leave it that.

BURIRAM BOY – you will never “get to the bottom of it” as RDC points out, and as I pointed out as well. The closest you can get to the bottom of it is to start of with a set of average figures – average because that is just what they are i.e. fairly representative for what actually occurs in Thailand.

I think RDC takes the wind out my sail in the sense that had I been “on air” at the time my reply would have been almost the same as his word for word.

So I’ll leave it that, but to answer your question what crop is better than rubber? – well given the circumstances under which Rubber is normally grown and the intial capital outlay and input, government figures indicate that the average Thai farmer would be better off if he grew Palm Oil – in fact the figure given is that he would be better off to the tune of around Baht6 000 per year p/rai.

On the basis of a 20rai plot using the average figures as compiled by KK Uni for 2005, that is a 50% increase in income over rubber caltivation!

Now the key to the argument is that the land on which the rubber is grown and the capital input to sustain labour, fertiliser and general maintanence of the respective crops is roughly the same i.e. Rubber and Palm Oil are comparable crops that can be cultivated for more or less the same capital input and land area – just that the return from Palm Oil is about 50% higher.

And yes, the earlier production of palm Oil versus the later value of the Para Rubber tree timber is included in the overall figures i.e. in the time that Palm Oil starts to generate income and the extra income it generates of the lifetime of the crop is more or less offset by the value of the rubber tree timber when it is harvested.

And there are other crops that will generate a better return than both of the above – maize is one.

The problem with it is that it is not a comparable crop to Rubber your Palm Oil because although the earnings for a given area of land are potentially significantly higher, so to are the capital inputs and the maintenance costs. It’s a different scale of economies which require a rather large capital outlay for water/irrigation to be implemented before it can be realised.

But talking of crops that are non comparable but which will generate a lot more income than rubber: vegetables in greenhouses.

1 rai of carefully managed vegetables in greenhouses (which can be supported with a 3- 6” well), will earn you more per year than 4 rai of rubber per year….. and I say greenhouses because that really is the only way you can intensively cultivate them for any given area while been able to maintain an environment that is condusive to good growth (i.e. control insect damage, control water requirements, control temperature, control exposure to storm damage ect ect…….)

If I was making a choice for 4 rai of land, I personally would chose to put some greenhouses on 1 or 2 rai of that 4 rai, and grow vegetables.

I would start to generate an income within a few months and that income would be substantially more than the equivilant area in Para rubber.

Tim

[RamdomChances]

I think RDC takes the wind out my sail in the sense that had I been “on air” at the time my reply would have been almost the same as his word for word.

Don't worry you do the same to me all the time

And there are other crops that will generate a better return than both of the above – maize is one.

That really suprises me, even if you knock my 1/3 off for staggering growth that would still leave rubber with 800/bhat/rai/month (your figures) thats nearly 10,000/rai/year!! We live in a predominantly Maize growing area and I've never heard of anyone even getting even close to those figures. Are you able to double crop it ? if so with or without irrigation ?

I fully agree with the samll intensive 'market garden" type thing if you only have a few rai

[svenivan]

Hi guys,

Interesting topic. I like to read about farming and now we go from rubbertrees to Makua. I might try that too.

If we can go back to rubbertrees, hope you don't mind, I like to discuss how to take care of them in best way.

Me and my lady found a nice bit of land, 20 rai, 8 km from our house but up in the mountains. There is a little house on it and it has a fantastic view. And there are 505 rubbertrees on a part of this land.

We did not buy it for the rubbertrees but I like to take care of them in best way and maybe they can give me some drinking money in the long run.

The rubbertres are partly on a hill and some of them on almost flat ground. The funny thing is that the highest trees are these that are on the steepest land. I can see that at least 50 trees has died and probably because of too much water (bad drainage). Some of the trees are 4 m high and some, mostly on the flatter land between 1 and 1.5 meter high. The former owner said he planted the trees more than 2 years ago but other sources insists it is only 18 months ago.

I can see 3 trees beside each other, one is 1 m, the next 1.5m and the third is 3 m high! I cannot see any difference in the soil. So why?

I have learned to dig up around the trees and get rid of weeds about 70 cm from each tree. Also to give fertilizer (only done one time, bought the place in July) and to take away branches.

The trees seem to be very happy now and growing almost so you can see it.

So I would like to focus the discussion about growing the rubbertrees, we can give good ideas to each other and try to optimize how the trees are growing.

One more question: How high up is recommended to take away branches?

Looking forward to see this topic alive for at least 5 more years (when we start tapping).

[Maizefarmer]

Your final comment emphasizes the point ............ you have lonh time to wait before you will be drinking any beer!

Proberly best to just keep the land clear so they dont catch alight, apply some fertilser once or twice a year - and if you say they otherwise appear healthy and growing, then thats it - dont through money at them. They are pretty resiliant trees in any event, and then sit back and wait for them to start generating that ever so badly desired beer money.

Tim

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer, thanks again for all your valuable help. I guess the thread did get hijacked from the original topic, so Svenivan getting back to rubber trees, I can’t help you on why some trees are growing better than others but here are two links below that give information on growing rubber trees. Issangeorge.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Cultivation http://www.dfsc.dk/extensionstudy/EXT-1112.htm

[jamescollister]

Maizefarmer, thanks again for all your valuable help. I guess the thread did get hijacked from the original topic, so Svenivan getting back to rubber trees, I can’t help you on why some trees are growing better than others but here are two links below that give information on growing rubber trees. Issangeorge.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Cultivation http://www.dfsc.dk/extensionstudy/EXT-1112.htm

svenivan There will be a government adviser,who should visit your area every 2 or 3 month ,or you can go and see them yourself. They will have loads of pamplets relating to best practise for rubber in your area and the type of trees you are growing. As most of the trees grown in the north are genetical modified for the different climate, rainfall and soil, any information from one area may not be the best way in your area . JIM

[RamdomChances]

Ok I've moved the Makua post to their own topic, so some of the post here may look a little disjointed

[svenivan]

Maizefarmer, thanks again for all your valuable help. I guess the thread did get hijacked from the original topic, so Svenivan getting back to rubber trees, I can’t help you on why some trees are growing better than others but here are two links below that give information on growing rubber trees. Issangeorge.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Cultivation http://www.dfsc.dk/extensionstudy/EXT-1112.htm

Thank you George,

The first link did not work for me but the second link was very good. There are a lot of very useful information about a rubbertree's whole life and how to take care of it.

Many thanks!

Svenivan

[69_68iou1]

Thai average rubber production 2003-2004

Yield per rai (kgs.) over the year period

2003 Whole Kingdom =286 KG

2004 Whole Kingdom =288 KG

2003 Northern = 182 KG

2004 Northen = 185 KG

2003 North - Eastern =236 KG

2004 North - Eastern =241 KG

2003 Central Plain =250 KG

2004 Central Plain =253 KG

2003 Southern = 292 KG

2003 Southern = 294 KG

It also depend on the time of year as to the amount of Yeild.

11.36

7.51

5.10

5.02

6.64

9.42

9.41

8.79

10.15

8.84

7.6810.08

[timber]

Issangeorge

On the second web page you posted there is some pretty good stuff on oil palm too. Thanks

[guyshown]

Great posts

I myself have 40 rai in rubber trees. I put them in the ground a little more than 6 months ago. this season will plant another 10 rai. as most people know that the rains came late last year so lost about 20 percent of the saplings right off the get go even after i did my best at getting them water. now have drip lines on all the trees. I soon remembered why I left the dry lands of North Dakota! Flash Back to the days of worry. I have learned to take any profit number a Thai tells me and cut it by 75 % that's right 75% I am not saying anything negative about Thais to be real honest most of them are talking about something they have not witnessed their self! Kind of like fishing stories! fish just keeps getting bigger and bigger

From the research that i have done between 200 kg and 250 kg and month per a rai is real close to the honest amount. Will i get rich off of 40 Rai not even close could i survive yep because i am bill free except for elec and water. I am also in the position that the wife is there and I am here(Kuwait).

I forsee in the year 2012 I might start tapping the trees.

I also plan on other projects -- Free range chickens- veggies or other cash crops already doing the fish thing-- even thought about an good old big screened having sports bar with smoking hotwings! and for the folks out there that understand Thai by my name on here they have already figured out my hobby and passion just might be spelled a little more like gai-chone or dee gai. Any how since i come from a wheat farming back ground(ran a few cows also) I know that sometimes the lottery is a little more sure than farming! Best luck to all and hope that all are successfull in their adventures