PM's ID card idea draws public outcry

[webfact]

PM’s ID idea draws public outcry

BANGKOK: -- An idea of Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha to include incomes and occupations of Thai citizens in the new identification cards is drawing outcry in the social media with many people voicing opposition reasoning that such movement is a violation of individual privacy.

Gen Prayut came out with the idea as he addressed the nation during the “Returning Happiness to the People” programme at the weekend.

He talked about tax evasion and efficient tax collection and suggested the Finance Ministry to come out with practical solutions to plug tax loopholes.

He then came out with the idea of linking tax collection data base of the Finance Ministry with the household registration data base of the Interior Ministry and the government’s public services.

He cited farmer’s income that could be linked to public services.

Gen Prayut said information in the ID card issued by the Interior Ministry might include occupation and earning of the holder.

Such information would be vital to government to keep as data base for making accurate budget allocation to assist low income earners, as well as farmers.

He cited the government’s free train and bus services that was aimed at helping the poor, but also was shared by high income earners, or other assistance projects that did not reach the target groups, such as farmers.

But with new ID cards which show earnings and occupations of holders, it would enable the government to differentiate the people who needed government assistance so that all assistance would reach them, the prime minister explained.

However such idea drew strong opposition in the social networking.

Many people said medical information is more essential as this could save life in case of emergency, while some said displaying personal income in ID card is against good governance rule which treats customers income as confidential.

Besides it would breach individual privacy, they said.

But government spokesman Maj Gen Sansern Kaewkamnerd defended the idea saying it would help the government aids to reach exactly the target groups.

Besides it would help to promote the people to enter the tax system correctly in respective to their incomes, and not a violation of individual privacy, he said.

Meanwhile permanent secretary to the Interior Ministry Mr Krisada Boonratch said there was no conclusion yet on the issue, but assured that these information would be written in micro chip embedded in the ID card, not to be displayed on the card as many speculated,

Presently such information is not written in the ID card, he said and added that there was no conclusion yet.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pms-id-idea-draws-public-outcry


-- Thai PBS 2015-12-14

[CanInBKK]

I'd like to see more effective tax collection measures implemented (i.e. Taxing those who sell online through bank transfers only), but I'm not entirely sure how the ID card scheme would help in this process?

[jaywalker]

List it on Thai cop's ID cards...

Bribery, extortion, intimidation, bribery......"Wait! You said bribery twice!"

Thai cop: "Huh-huh, Yeah, I like bribery"

Fat cop in the background: "Haw-haw! He'll do!"

[beano2274]

so lose your ID card and someone can tell how much you earn and get all the information about you, and sell it on. Could even happen when someone swipes your card at a Bank for example when opening an account.

[jaywalker]

I'd like to see more effective tax collection measures implemented (i.e. Taxing those who sell online through bank transfers only), but I'm not entirely sure how the ID card scheme would help in this process?

I'd like to see 1,000 times more efficient management of public funds before they ever get within 1,000 MILES of effective tax collection.

There are, like, 99 other things wrong with what you wrote too.

Edited December 14, 2015 by jaywalker

[jaywalker]

There are just SO MANY things wrong with this concept it is mind boggling!

I cannot believe anybody except an Orwellian government or an utter and total knave (being sheeple'd into being a good Orwellian citizen of the STATE) could see anything good about it.

[webfact]

Big Tu’s big idea: Prayuth mulls putting salary, occupation on ID card
By Coconuts Bangkok


A screenshot of Prayuth Chan-ocha on the "Return Happiness to the People" show

BANGKOK: -- Junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has come up with the bright idea of displaying monthly salary and occupation on citizens’ ID cards.

To prepare the nation for the upcoming ASEAN economy, PM Prayuth said during his televised address on Saturday morning that national ID cards should provide this information so the government can update labor statistics of the country.

"Our problem is how we organize the information. In 2017, we should succeed at having ID cards that show the cardholder's profession and salary," Prayuth said in his “Returning Happiness to the People” show, which was moved from Friday night to Saturday morning last week.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/12/14/big-tus-big-idea-prayuth-mulls-putting-salary-occupation-id-card


-- Coconuts Bangkok 2015-12-14

[Greer]

I would have to say that I don't think it is a good idea to list a persons financial status (income and job) on an ID card, as for one thing that can change rapidly and could even change a number of times during a year - also as it would give the financial info to anyone who saw the card, it is likely to increase the criminal targeting of individuals based on their income.

Not good at all - the ID card is often photocopied and used in all kinds of applications or registrations by private organisations - and there is no guarantee of the security of the storage or dissemination of that essentially private information.

[h90]

so lose your ID card and someone can tell how much you earn and get all the information about you, and sell it on. Could even happen when someone swipes your card at a Bank for example when opening an account.

I think the idea behind is: You have no income at all or 20.000 Baht salary from government, but fly every week somewhere first class (not business class) than the question would be where the money comes from.

But printing it on the ID card is complete stupid. Other countries can collect taxes without that idea......Hire some retired German revenue department officials for consulting instead of coming with own silly ideas.

[sharecropper]

I'd like to see the PM's income on his ID card, and then look at his tax returns and calculate his assets, then check any disparity,.....

[zaphod reborn]

I think Thais would support it, if the card included their annual end-year bonus amount. It seems to be their main bragging right when it comes to their job, no matter how low the monthly salary is.

[phoenixdoglover]

This would streamline the calculation of traffic fines.

[Prbkk]

The VAT/GST is too low. Exempt food and some essentials to protect the poor and increase it to 15% so that those who consume, pay.

[dageurreotype]

I would have to say that I don't think it is a good idea to list a persons financial status (income and job) on an ID card, as for one thing that can change rapidly and could even change a number of times during a year - also as it would give the financial info to anyone who saw the card, it is likely to increase the criminal targeting of individuals based on their income.

Not good at all - the ID card is often photocopied and used in all kinds of applications or registrations by private organisations - and there is no guarantee of the security of the storage or dissemination of that essentially private information.

Whilst I agree with most posters here that revelation of financial status bit impractical, bearing in mind said status can change quite quickly, I really don't have any problem with it. After all, simply being White throws you right up there as one to be fleeced at any given opportunity. No need for any ID Card verifying your financial status. You White, You 'rich'

Edited December 14, 2015 by dageurreotype

[jaywalker]

I'd like to see the PM's income on his ID card, and then look at his tax returns and calculate his assets, then check any disparity,.....

He granted himself amnesty long ago.

I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BELIEVE this insanity.

Every day it's a bit further down the rabbit hole.

I'm still steaming over somebody agreeing it would 'increase tax collection efficiency' in a country where....arrrgh!

Somebody slap me!

Better yet slap him!

[condo bought]

They're not very good at thinking.

Are they?

[dageurreotype]

Anyway, let's be honest, any attempt to tax the huge 'grey' economy would draw 'huge public outcry'. The Thais believe we farang pick our respective countries' welfare/pensions from bloody trees. When I'd told my irritating plumber re this subject 'Ok, you want 600 baht for this job?' 'Yes' 'Right. I'm the government and I take 30% from you now so you can enjoy said welfare when you're sick/old'. You should see the look on his face However, agree dipstick dictator et al should lead by example. Same with corruption. The reason most Thais see no problem with it is that they are lead by example, same kids and their parents duh.

Edited December 14, 2015 by dageurreotype

[jaywalker]

They're not very good at thinking.

Are they?

Why not put it on your ID card how many kids you've had, where you bank, do you drink, do you smoke, if so how much, average bank balance, divorced, single, remarried, widowed, whether or not you use toilet paper or a bum gun (or both), how many times a day you brush your teeth etc, etc.????

Hell, just insert an RFID card with GPS into kids when they hit puberty to keep track of things.

[amerasianex]

Way out of line.

[Kerryd]

Not only would that open up a whole range of people to extortion and blackmail, it would also pretty much screw everyone that ever tried to change occupation or jobs. Either that or they'd have to be changing ID cards every few months. It would also be misused almost immediately as most people wouldn't report their actual salary (especially if they knew they were going to be taxed on it) and would be subject to corruption as people would be expected to cough up some cash in order to have different salary amounts listed.

I agree that they need to do something as I see so much going on that isn't taxed (salaries, business dealings, etc) it's a wonder the government has any money at all. I come from a place where nearly a third of your salary is taken from your pay cheque before you ever see it, and almost everything you do/buy is taxed as well, and you still have to file individual (and/or corporate) taxes every year as well. Some smart people have calculated when our "tax free" day is each year and lately it's happening near mid-June. (Basically what they calculate is that every dollar you have earned from the start of the year until the "tax-free" day goes to paying various taxes. Everything you earn from that day until the end of the year is "profit", though you still have your normal expenses and debts to deal with. Tax Free Day 2015 in Canada was 10 June, meaning over 44.5% of everything earned this year went to taxes.)

But in exchange we have some great benefits. Cops that make great salaries (and next to no corruption), good infrastructure support, healthcare that is worthwhile, unemployment benefits, Old Age pensions, etc. etc. The worry of course is, what would Thailand do if they were able to collect (efficiently and effectively) taxes from (most) individuals and corporations as is done is other countries ? More aircraft carriers and submarines ? More gold braid on the uniforms ? Or just more of the same as we see now ?

[Mango Bob]

Very soon this country will become a police state if this self appointed PM stays in office.

[trogers]

A very good idea! We can then know which gardeners and maids are actually multimillionaires...

[h90]

The VAT/GST is too low. Exempt food and some essentials to protect the poor and increase it to 15% so that those who consume, pay.

VAT is a tax that punish mostly the poor one, not the rich one.

I think 7% is just right. Reduce corruption, reduce the many useless state employees and keep the state slim.

And not forget to check how many Generals and top officers the Thai army really needs.

Low taxes and slim efficient state helps to make the country and everyone wealthy.....high taxes and taking money from the middle class will make everyone (beside the rich) equal poor.

[skildpadden]

I agree on the idea to use the ID card chip for something useful. Storing salary is not one of them.

However since there is no digitally accessible medical records archive, storing medical info would be very useful. So any hospital (private or public), you may end up in, can check your allergies, underlying diseases etc. saving time and life. Further, name of relatives and emergency contacts is also very useful.

Next step could e.g. be indication of whether you accept to be an organ donor.

Now if they could (this is probably very much to ask) link it to e.g. the criminal records, police would be doing something useful if the card chip is checked, when they anyway are stopping people for donations.

[Thai at Heart]

Don't declare incomes, just declare tax payments online.

[Laughing Gravy]

What as stupid idea, impractical, almost impossible to monitor and would be just another badge for people to put themselves in a hierarchy.

[skildpadden]

I agree on the idea to use the ID card chip for something useful. Storing salary is not one of them.

However since there is no digitally accessible medical records archive, storing medical info would be very useful. So any hospital (private or public), you may end up in, can check your allergies, underlying diseases etc. saving time and life. Further, name of relatives and emergency contacts is also very useful.

Next step could e.g. be indication of whether you accept to be an organ donor.

Now if they could (this is probably very much to ask) link it to e.g. the criminal records, police would be doing something useful if the card chip is checked, when they anyway are stopping people for donations.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

They could also put in place the same thing they do in Switzerland if I remember correctly: Fines are proportionals to the incomes, so everybody would have to pay a dissuasive amount of money

[realenglish1]

This is the long and short of it If it is on a micro card then there is room for major abuse by anyone with a card reader. This is a given that that information will be for sale to the right bidders

Why do western societies not do this BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND no one else business. PERIOD

[AlphMichaels]

Will never happen. There will be half-hearted retractions on the idea before end of week.