Smoke, Smog, Dust 2016-2017 Chiang Mai

[blueyeshk]

FWIW I live in rural Mae Rim and everyone around here seems very very aware of 16th February being the last legal burning date and nobody has dared burn since, I think attitudes are slowly changing.

Must be regional attitude adjustment. In our valley in Lamphun province, the locals obviously haven't heard about the government edict based on our casual observation of the number of fires burning throughout the village and regional forest. Actually, they know, but everyone is just playing dumb.

They dont play.

[vivid]

Ratchaburi and Samut Sakhon getting smoked.

[sup3r1or]

Everything is as white as a sheet of paper here in Phayao today. Very smoky almost on level or last year, everything around Phayao University if burning.

[vivid]

[CNXBKKMAN]

Just put some washing out to dry at 01:30 and I could smell smoke blowing in from the north of the city.

Its amazing this year how the temps are quite low and the smoke pollution hasn't been bad yet. Will it last?

[Sparkles]

FWIW I live in rural Mae Rim and everyone around here seems very very aware of 16th February being the last legal burning date and nobody has dared burn since, I think attitudes are slowly changing.

Must be regional attitude adjustment. In our valley in Lamphun province, the locals obviously haven't heard about the government edict based on our casual observation of the number of fires burning throughout the village and regional forest. Actually, they know, but everyone is just playing dumb.

We have just completed a 1,400 km round trip visiting the wife's family which took us down Highway 1 through Lampang o/n in Tak, Pichit.Petchabun and back through Phitsanulok,Sukhothai,Tak and back up highway 1.Smoke shrouded every part of the journey .There were road side fires actively burning and evidence ofprevious fires the whole way.Getting back into CM was somewhat of a relief.

So the messsage might be geting through, to some extent here, but its sure not in other provinces Tak was probably the worst.

I don't believe these were farmers we saw burning, it was open country.Why ? whats the point and here in lies the problem its part of the yearly ritual

they probably have no idea themselves

[CNXBKKMAN]

FWIW I live in rural Mae Rim and everyone around here seems very very aware of 16th February being the last legal burning date and nobody has dared burn since, I think attitudes are slowly changing.

Must be regional attitude adjustment. In our valley in Lamphun province, the locals obviously haven't heard about the government edict based on our casual observation of the number of fires burning throughout the village and regional forest. Actually, they know, but everyone is just playing dumb.

We have just completed a 1,400 km round trip visiting the wife's family which took us down Highway 1 through Lampang o/n in Tak, Pichit.Petchabun and back through Phitsanulok,Sukhothai,Tak and back up highway 1.Smoke shrouded every part of the journey .There were road side fires actively burning and evidence ofprevious fires the whole way.Getting back into CM was somewhat of a relief.

So the messsage might be geting through, to some extent here, but its sure not in other provinces Tak was probably the worst.

I don't believe these were farmers we saw burning, it was open country.Why ? whats the point and here in lies the problem its part of the yearly ritual

they probably have no idea themselves

I agree totally a lot of the burning is pointless and nothing to do with picking mushrooms later. I cycle to Huay Tung Tau a couple of times a week. There is a large jogging track that starts very near the canal road. I enter HTT on that track not on the road. A few weeks ago the grasses and plants were burnt off making the pleasant parkland track look like a disaster zone. Very ugly. Its not farm land no crops are being planted and what was natural and pleasant to the eye becomes an eyesore never mind the smoke it created. Inside HTT the same park employees(most probable culprits?) have set fire to land around the lake in places. It looks ugly, its not farm land. I can't see any benefit? Its just created smoke and scorched the trees. Piles of leaves accumulate under the trees where the lower branches have been burnt.

[chiang mai]

FWIW I live in rural Mae Rim and everyone around here seems very very aware of 16th February being the last legal burning date and nobody has dared burn since, I think attitudes are slowly changing.

Must be regional attitude adjustment. In our valley in Lamphun province, the locals obviously haven't heard about the government edict based on our casual observation of the number of fires burning throughout the village and regional forest. Actually, they know, but everyone is just playing dumb.

We have just completed a 1,400 km round trip visiting the wife's family which took us down Highway 1 through Lampang o/n in Tak, Pichit.Petchabun and back through Phitsanulok,Sukhothai,Tak and back up highway 1.Smoke shrouded every part of the journey .There were road side fires actively burning and evidence ofprevious fires the whole way.Getting back into CM was somewhat of a relief.

So the messsage might be geting through, to some extent here, but its sure not in other provinces Tak was probably the worst.

I don't believe these were farmers we saw burning, it was open country.Why ? whats the point and here in lies the problem its part of the yearly ritual

they probably have no idea themselves

I agree totally a lot of the burning is pointless and nothing to do with picking mushrooms later. I cycle to Huay Tung Tau a couple of times a week. There is a large jogging track that starts very near the canal road. I enter HTT on that track not on the road. A few weeks ago the grasses and plants were burnt off making the pleasant parkland track look like a disaster zone. Very ugly. Its not farm land no crops are being planted and what was natural and pleasant to the eye becomes an eyesore never mind the smoke it created. Inside HTT the same park employees(most probable culprits?) have set fire to land around the lake in places. It looks ugly, its not farm land. I can't see any benefit? Its just created smoke and scorched the trees. Piles of leaves accumulate under the trees where the lower branches have been burnt.

Just looking at the fire maps and thinking that the number of fires in Thailand is dwarfed by those in Myanmar and Cambodia, it doesn't surprise that Tak was the worst of all. We frequently make a similar journey although not as extensive. What we see when driving from CM South through Lampang and beyond to Tak and Sukohthai is lots of burning along the road side and within a hundred metres thereof. I never thought however that what I saw as far as burning was concerned could be matched by the pollution levels, other factors come into play on that route, specifically Lampang power generation plant and inbound pollution from elsewhere - the wind maps are clear that wind direction around Tak Province is from the West:

http://www.windfinder.com/weather-maps/forecast/thailand#5/13.149/101.493

[MESmith]

Driving through Doi Saket, this morning, the air looked really bad. Same, coming back this afternoon. No doubt the balloonists thought it was early morning mist they were climbing through

[tyznd]

Anyone know exactly where they take the measurements at air4thai.pcd.go.th? I'm trying to determine which location is closest to where I live near the Mae Hia market on Canal Road.

[Cheesekraft]

worst I have ever seen it today, but the aqm sites say its good

[Mapguy]

Good ??!!

The PM<10 pollution has been particularly brutal in the past few days. Note, also, that according to the PM<2.5 measurements that one can find, it appears that the percentage of that nasty stuff of the PM<10 total is quite high even surpassing the generally-accepted 40-60% range. Research (one study found thus far) in Northern Thailand has shown that agricultural burning does tend to be higher than the average range.

Not surprisingly, LOCAL burning has been significant within the past 36 hours in the Doi Suthep-Pui area, a circular area with a 15km radius. Nevermind what's going on in neighboring countries!

Edited March 7, 2016 by Mapguy

[puukao]

100,000 posts on this subject and it's not getting better!!!!

Are they not reading this thread??

what more can we do????

[CNXBKKMAN]

worst I have ever seen it today, but the aqm sites say its good

It does get much worse than this. Just my opinion but we seem to be doing well so far and we have not had a really bad day yet. My N95 mask hasn't been used but I wore it quite bit last year. I keep hoping that we will sail through this years smokey season without it getting any worse than today.

[northernjohn]

I see in the Bangkok newspaper that Thailand is sponsoring a meeting where they will come up with a plan to make S E Asia smoke free by 2020.

[Atum]

Anyone know exactly where they take the measurements at air4thai.pcd.go.th? I'm trying to determine which location is closest to where I live near the Mae Hia market on Canal Road.

Just zoom in on the map on the air4thai website - on the main page.

[DaamNaam]

I see in the Bangkok newspaper that Thailand is sponsoring a meeting where they will come up with a plan to make S E Asia smoke free by 2020.

They could try and follow the "drug free" program of the mid 2000's and just shoot all the burners.

[Tywais]

From the US Consulate:

Today marks the 6th day in a row with daily average PM2.5 AQI in the "Unhealthy" range in Chiang Mai. Doctors recommend limiting outdoor activity and wearing N95 masks when outdoors to mitigate negative health effects (both short- and long-term).

[SundayAfternoon]

But I'm looking at : http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=en right now it's showing a reading for P. M 2.5 of 41... how can it be so different?

[Sparkles]

But I'm looking at : http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=en right now it's showing a reading for P. M 2.5 of 41... how can it be so different?

Bit like weather forecast web sites they all differ.Best to trust your own eyes and nose.

Going to RAM Hospital at 9am this morning along Hang Dong Rd Doi Suthep was barely visible and it wasn't "mist"

There are obviously fires burning somewhere.Be nice if the army got out of barracks and had a look see.

Can grass and stubble burning be that hard to find ?

[SundayAfternoon]

But a weather forecast is a prediction so must be some room for error and interpretation. But these numbers are readings. They should be the same, no?

I'm not disputing there's pollution or that it's not bad (I happen to think it's appalling!) But how can the American Consulate report is 162 while the aqmthai.com website say it's 41.

Sorry to disagree but it's nothing like a weather forecast @Sparkles!

[Atum]

But a weather forecast is a prediction so must be some room for error and interpretation. But these numbers are readings. They should be the same, no?

I'm not disputing there's pollution or that it's not bad (I happen to think it's appalling!) But how can the American Consulate report is 162 while the aqmthai.com website say it's 41.

Sorry to disagree but it's nothing like a weather forecast @Sparkles!

Look closely at the US Consulate graphic: it has two numbers on it, the big one is the PM-2.5 at a specific time and the small one is the daily average (which is much lower). PM-2.5 is almost always much higher in the morning than the rest of the day.

You can see this on the http://aqmthai.com/index.php?lang=en website also, there is the RAW data and the DAILY AVERAGE data. The RAW data are measurements made every hour - and they really spike up at times.

[Atum]

But the measurement site is also important - maybe the US Consulate has it's own device at the consulate location.

The US Embassy in Beijing had this during the especially big smog crisis there some years back, and their measurements were way higher than the official Chinese measurements because the Chinese were doctoring the numbers to not cause a panic or adversely affect the economy of the city - in other words, they were lying. But I'm sure this isn't the case here in Thailand. Thai people wouldn't do that!

[Tywais]

But the measurement site is also important - maybe the US Consulate has it's own device at the consulate location.

No. This from the consulate FB site:

U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, Thailand AQI is calculated from the 24-hour average PM2.5 "raw" data posted at http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=eng at station 36t, 08:15am, March 8, and the AQI calculator at http://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=resources.conc_aqi_calc

[SundayAfternoon]

Thanks @Atum I always look at the aqmthai.com website with the RAW measurement thinking this was the most straightforward and real data. Averages aren't as useful for me when I'm deciding when it's safe to exercise/run as much as the hourly updates.

I read on the Consulate website that they don't have their own measuring equipment. They make their calculation by taking the aqmthai.com data and then applying some metric to it as @Tywas said ^ It's confusing though. Sure my senses tell me it's bad but the data should be the same across all of them if there's only one measuring station! (Whether it's raw or average). And it's very confusing to know which one is most accurate when there are vast differences in the numbers shown!

Edited March 8, 2016 by SundayAfternoon

[Atum]

But the measurement site is also important - maybe the US Consulate has it's own device at the consulate location.

No. This from the consulate FB site:

U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, Thailand AQI is calculated from the 24-hour average PM2.5 "raw" data posted at http://aqmthai.com/public_report.php?lang=eng at station 36t, 08:15am, March 8, and the AQI calculator at http://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=resources.conc_aqi_calc

Thank you, Tywais! I actually didn't notice that the US Consulate graphic said AQI also (duh!).

I tried the AQI calculator you linked to - and it worked great. I put in PM-2.5 and 60 (from the aqmthai "raw" data at 0800 on March 8) and it calculated an AQI of 153.

Apparently 'PM-2.5' and 'PM-2.5 AQI' are not the same thing - so I kind of flunked this one (before you helped me).

[Atum]

Actually I think there is no such thing as 'PM-2.5 AQI'. AQI is just AQI, but it can be calculated from different values such as CO, SO2, PM-10 or PM-2.5 or others. So the US Consulate graphic was kind of confusing/misleading, at least for average people like me...

Edited March 8, 2016 by Atum

[MESmith]

Seems quite clear, right now. Opened some windows to let the music out

[Mapguy]

This is not to demean what has been discussed here (for years!) before about the nittygritty of measuring pollution.

Seasonal air pollution is much more complicated than so far revealed (or analysed) here generally on this web site. It is wholly agreeable that the air is bad, but there's more to it than that. We could discuss HOW bad the pollution is and what the risk analysis is when it comes to pubic health and other socioeconomc concerns. That's a large step from bitchin' and moanin'. This, common irritation aside, the problem and potential solutions to it are difficult to analyse and quantify. But accepting that there is a large public health problem in the long run (and certainly seriously for too many people in the short run), the essential and very difficult challenge is how to fix the problem. And THAT is really complicated. I am in no way apologizing for the current absurd PR manouvers of government, but the real problems of understanding and consideration and potential solutions in dealing with the situation are not yet on the table for all to fully understand and evaluate.

[CNXBKKMAN]

CMprice and CM108 both had photos of the lower slopes of suthip/pui on fire yesterday. firefighters and a MNRE helicopter scooping water out of HTT(operating the helicopter can't be cheap). This was around 13:00 yesterday (tuesday). Below is my photo taken at about 19:00 from about 7km away. Not a good photo but hand held, in the dark and autofocus didn't want to work.