Farmers are banned from pumping water from irrigation canals

[Ulic]

Like speeding, drunk/high driving, littering etc....etc....it will be seen as a recommendation.

[waldroj]

robblok

There is no fairness in a drought, there is only losers! Thus, quoting statistics at this time is a pointless exercise.

Also, I don't think you get your water for the shower or toilet from a vending machine (THAT'S a stupid remark)!

There was never any question that farmers use a lot of water. But, then again, so does industry (and we are not hearing too much criticism of it).

I stand by my original post that water in Bangkok is too cheap (by world standards), and users should be made to pay more for it. As a customer of the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority, I know my monthly bill does not reflect the true price of this precious resource. Adding to this is the high demand that tourists place on water (you should do some research on this).

Rather than being critical of those farmers in the drought-affected areas (and their need for water), you should show some compassion for them.

[robblok]

robblok

There is no fairness in a drought, there is only losers! Thus, quoting statistics at this time is a pointless exercise.

Also, I don't think you get your water for the shower or toilet from a vending machine (THAT'S a stupid remark)!

There was never any question that farmers use a lot of water. But, then again, so does industry (and we are not hearing too much criticism of it).

I stand by my original post that water in Bangkok is too cheap (by world standards), and users should be made to pay more for it. As a customer of the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority, I know my monthly bill does not reflect the true price of this precious resource. Adding to this is the high demand that tourists place on water (you should do some research on this).

Rather than being critical of those farmers in the drought-affected areas (and their need for water), you should show some compassion for them.

No those statistics show that the farmers use 40 times more water as the average person living in BKK. So its the farmers who are hogging water. Water is a resource that should be shared and we all got equal rights, not that a farmer or industry gets loads more. But you keep making it out that the Bangkok people are the ones who use most water and that is just not right its the farmers who use loads of it and the people in BKK should not suffer because of that.

How much water costs is not interesting even if it was two times the price the farmers who use 40x more is where the problem lies not with the average person in BKK that is not where saving can be made. You make savings there where it is used most. Rice farming is just not feasible when there is a water shortage.

Yes I am critical of the farmers as they have been told countless times not to plant the rice but they don't listen. I have also said countless times that the government should pay the farmers compensation (normally id say their own risk but as they are already in debt i feel its better to pay them some compensation).

I would not use more or less water if they doubled or even tripled the bill its the same for most other users. Its not the home users that use too much water, its the farmers and industry.

[diehard60]

They can say what they want but the farmers will pump all the water they want and they do not care what the government says. In Nakhon Phanom alone they are growing a second crop and maybe even a third and pumping all the water they want to pump.

[robblok]

They can say what they want but the farmers will pump all the water they want and they do not care what the government says. In Nakhon Phanom alone they are growing a second crop and maybe even a third and pumping all the water they want to pump.

Probably because this is not the Chao Praya river but the Tha Cin river and they are the end user of that water. The restrictions are for the Chao Praya river as that is where Bangkok water comes from.

As far as I know the ban was not nation wide some area's like the ones on the Tha Cin river were not included.

[waldroj]

robblok

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying BKK people use the most water. But, I am saying, that because the price of water here is so cheap, there is no incentive to try to conserve it. The tourist industry only exacerbates the problem (as they use far more water than locals).

As we move into what is promising to be a very serious drought, the government should be placing a "drought levy" on residents in the major cities. This should make the price of water more realistic, and hopefully dissuade many consumers from its careless use (or pay for their excesses).

The extra money raised through the levy could then be made available as part of the drought relief measure that will be required.

As for the rice farmers, I doubt that any of them in drought-affected areas will be getting access to sufficient water for quite a few months to come (hence, for many this will mean no income) - thus my concern for their plight.

[Rorri]

robblok

There is no fairness in a drought, there is only losers! Thus, quoting statistics at this time is a pointless exercise.

Also, I don't think you get your water for the shower or toilet from a vending machine (THAT'S a stupid remark)!

There was never any question that farmers use a lot of water. But, then again, so does industry (and we are not hearing too much criticism of it).

I stand by my original post that water in Bangkok is too cheap (by world standards), and users should be made to pay more for it. As a customer of the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority, I know my monthly bill does not reflect the true price of this precious resource. Adding to this is the high demand that tourists place on water (you should do some research on this).

Rather than being critical of those farmers in the drought-affected areas (and their need for water), you should show some compassion for them.

No those statistics show that the farmers use 40 times more water as the average person living in BKK. So its the farmers who are hogging water. Water is a resource that should be shared and we all got equal rights, not that a farmer or industry gets loads more. But you keep making it out that the Bangkok people are the ones who use most water and that is just not right its the farmers who use loads of it and the people in BKK should not suffer because of that.

How much water costs is not interesting even if it was two times the price the farmers who use 40x more is where the problem lies not with the average person in BKK that is not where saving can be made. You make savings there where it is used most. Rice farming is just not feasible when there is a water shortage.

Yes I am critical of the farmers as they have been told countless times not to plant the rice but they don't listen. I have also said countless times that the government should pay the farmers compensation (normally id say their own risk but as they are already in debt i feel its better to pay them some compensation).

I would not use more or less water if they doubled or even tripled the bill its the same for most other users. Its not the home users that use too much water, its the farmers and industry.

Granted, farmers use more water than city folk, the problem is, and you seem to have missed it, farmers grow rice, as well as other produce,if they didn't then city folk would not have any food to eat, unless, horror of horrors, Thailand imports rice (huge loss of face), and other produce. Civil unrest is on its way.

[robblok]

robblok

There is no fairness in a drought, there is only losers! Thus, quoting statistics at this time is a pointless exercise.

Also, I don't think you get your water for the shower or toilet from a vending machine (THAT'S a stupid remark)!

There was never any question that farmers use a lot of water. But, then again, so does industry (and we are not hearing too much criticism of it).

I stand by my original post that water in Bangkok is too cheap (by world standards), and users should be made to pay more for it. As a customer of the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority, I know my monthly bill does not reflect the true price of this precious resource. Adding to this is the high demand that tourists place on water (you should do some research on this).

Rather than being critical of those farmers in the drought-affected areas (and their need for water), you should show some compassion for them.

No those statistics show that the farmers use 40 times more water as the average person living in BKK. So its the farmers who are hogging water. Water is a resource that should be shared and we all got equal rights, not that a farmer or industry gets loads more. But you keep making it out that the Bangkok people are the ones who use most water and that is just not right its the farmers who use loads of it and the people in BKK should not suffer because of that.

How much water costs is not interesting even if it was two times the price the farmers who use 40x more is where the problem lies not with the average person in BKK that is not where saving can be made. You make savings there where it is used most. Rice farming is just not feasible when there is a water shortage.

Yes I am critical of the farmers as they have been told countless times not to plant the rice but they don't listen. I have also said countless times that the government should pay the farmers compensation (normally id say their own risk but as they are already in debt i feel its better to pay them some compensation).

I would not use more or less water if they doubled or even tripled the bill its the same for most other users. Its not the home users that use too much water, its the farmers and industry.

Granted, farmers use more water than city folk, the problem is, and you seem to have missed it, farmers grow rice, as well as other produce,if they didn't then city folk would not have any food to eat, unless, horror of horrors, Thailand imports rice (huge loss of face), and other produce. Civil unrest is on its way.

Actually no drinking water in cities is far more damaging as the loss of face of having to import rice. But there is still an surplus of rice even with the drought so it does not really matter for the city dwellers that the farmers don't produce rice right now.

People can go quite some time without food, but only a few days without water. Get the point ! water should not be wasted on farming now that drinking water could be a problem. Food can be imported (not needed as there is still sufficient rice) but water.. that is a big problem.

[robblok]

robblok

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying BKK people use the most water. But, I am saying, that because the price of water here is so cheap, there is no incentive to try to conserve it. The tourist industry only exacerbates the problem (as they use far more water than locals).

As we move into what is promising to be a very serious drought, the government should be placing a "drought levy" on residents in the major cities. This should make the price of water more realistic, and hopefully dissuade many consumers from its careless use (or pay for their excesses).

The extra money raised through the levy could then be made available as part of the drought relief measure that will be required.

As for the rice farmers, I doubt that any of them in drought-affected areas will be getting access to sufficient water for quite a few months to come (hence, for many this will mean no income) - thus my concern for their plight.

The tourist industry brings in far more money as farmers pure economics alone dictates where priority should be. If you can make 1000bt from the water doing farming or 10.000 on tourists. What do you think is in the countries interest ?

I also like to know why you think tourists use more water as the locals, on what do you base that. I am a local here and when I was on a holiday with my parents in an other part of Thailand there was no difference in how we used the water. I can't say my parents showered longer as me or wasted water. I doubt other tourists are different.

Your drought levy might work, i got nothing against it but its a bit impractical unless they set a levy free amount per household. Unless the levy is really high like 10x the normal price the administration of it alone and getting it in place would cost far more. It is not something that is easily done. But once you ask for 10x the normal price people will revolt.

[farmerjo]

http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/1950/06/1558338/thailand-technical-report-chao-phya-irrigation-drainage-communications-project

See more

Edited December 22, 2015 by farmerjo

[MaiChai]

Reality is that rainfall was low this year. Thus no opportunity to fill up the dams. Thus there will be water shortages.

[Thian]

Reality is that rainfall was low this year. Thus no opportunity to fill up the dams. Thus there will be water shortages.

Reality is also that growing rice costs huge amounts of water. Without that there wouldn't be shortages.

[MaiChai]

Reality is that rainfall was low this year. Thus no opportunity to fill up the dams. Thus there will be water shortages.

Reality is also that growing rice costs huge amounts of water. Without that there wouldn't be shortages.

Spin it as you want. 2015 globally was the hottest year on record and Thailand did not get its usual rainfall. Thais have been growing rice for thousands of years; should they stop doing that because you say so?

[Thian]

Reality is that rainfall was low this year. Thus no opportunity to fill up the dams. Thus there will be water shortages.

Reality is also that growing rice costs huge amounts of water. Without that there wouldn't be shortages.

Spin it as you want. 2015 globally was the hottest year on record and Thailand did not get its usual rainfall. Thais have been growing rice for thousands of years; should they stop doing that because you say so?

Where did i say they should stop growing rice? YOU spin it the way you want!

Also they grow more rice then all Thai can eat, it's for export. And if tourism makes more money (and is easyier) then i know what the Thai want.

I eat everything, rice, potato, noodle, bread, fruit, vegy but my garden doesn't like salty water.

[FritsSikkink]

No smart ass comments from farangs here on this subject. You obviously know nothing about rural living in Thailand. There is more to Thailand than Phuket, Pattaya , Bangkok etc

i do know most of the farmers can't run a bussines

[waldroj]

robblok

Tourism is a very fickle industry! Whilst Thailand may get 30 million visitations this year, next year it could quite easily see the numbers evaporate as quickly as the water needed for the rice farmers.

Please see just three links I found about tourism and water use:

http://growingblue.com/case-studies/water-shortage-and-tourism/

http://www.cabi.org/leisuretourism/news/22368

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=0VMYU6NUHfQC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=tourists+use+more+water+than+locals&source=bl&ots=k59a81aXAB&sig=GdDqScTS7nwyuuo9Sox-m8pUWfM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjExPqFze_JAhXWj44KHSR7DGwQ6AEITzAJ#v=onepage&q=tourists%20use%20more%20water%20than%20locals&f=false

One of the big problems for Thailand is that many tourists come from countries where water shortages are not an issue, consequently these people have no concept of the need to be careful with water use.

As for the issue of the water levy, I maintain that (in BKK) this can be done quite easily through the existing Metropolitan Waterworks Authority billing system simply by adding a small amount on top of the normal water charges. The WMA already has the billing and collection facilities in place to allow this to happen quickly and seamlessly.

I’m not suggesting a big increase, but I continue to argue that an increase is necessary for the reasons cited previously.

Let’s all hope the drought-affected river catchment of Thailand get some good rainfall over the coming months.

[Lampang2]

Two fish ponds went bust last week with a total loss of 3 million Baht near our village.

Bust =?

In this context.

[Ks45672]

Two fish ponds went bust last week with a total loss of 3 million Baht near our village.

Bust =?

In this context.

Bankrupt usually what's referred to when business goes "bust" ... But in Thailand, nothing would surprise me anymore...

[Lampang2]

Reality is that rainfall was low this year. Thus no opportunity to fill up the dams. Thus there will be water shortages.

Reality is also that growing rice costs huge amounts of water. Without that there wouldn't be shortages.

Spin it as you want. 2015 globally was the hottest year on record and Thailand did not get its usual rainfall. Thais have been growing rice for thousands of years; should they stop doing that because you say so?

Maybe because mother nature says so.

You can start the second crop, but can you finish it?

I guess farmers are well aware and gamble.

It's probably just normal procedure as the outcome rarely is guaranteed for farmers anyway.

Problem is that if it fails a lot of water was wasted for nothing.

Even if it succeed you end up with rice, but no water to drink and cook?

Exiting times ahead.

[Lampang2]

Two fish ponds went bust last week with a total loss of 3 million Baht near our village.

Bust =?

In this context.

Bankrupt usually what's referred to when business goes "bust" ... But in Thailand, nothing would surprise me anymore...

Due to lack of water?

Somehow relating to topic, or just random mismanagement.

[Rorri]

robblok

There is no fairness in a drought, there is only losers! Thus, quoting statistics at this time is a pointless exercise.

Also, I don't think you get your water for the shower or toilet from a vending machine (THAT'S a stupid remark)!

There was never any question that farmers use a lot of water. But, then again, so does industry (and we are not hearing too much criticism of it).

I stand by my original post that water in Bangkok is too cheap (by world standards), and users should be made to pay more for it. As a customer of the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority, I know my monthly bill does not reflect the true price of this precious resource. Adding to this is the high demand that tourists place on water (you should do some research on this).

Rather than being critical of those farmers in the drought-affected areas (and their need for water), you should show some compassion for them.

No those statistics show that the farmers use 40 times more water as the average person living in BKK. So its the farmers who are hogging water. Water is a resource that should be shared and we all got equal rights, not that a farmer or industry gets loads more. But you keep making it out that the Bangkok people are the ones who use most water and that is just not right its the farmers who use loads of it and the people in BKK should not suffer because of that.

How much water costs is not interesting even if it was two times the price the farmers who use 40x more is where the problem lies not with the average person in BKK that is not where saving can be made. You make savings there where it is used most. Rice farming is just not feasible when there is a water shortage.

Yes I am critical of the farmers as they have been told countless times not to plant the rice but they don't listen. I have also said countless times that the government should pay the farmers compensation (normally id say their own risk but as they are already in debt i feel its better to pay them some compensation).

I would not use more or less water if they doubled or even tripled the bill its the same for most other users. Its not the home users that use too much water, its the farmers and industry.

Granted, farmers use more water than city folk, the problem is, and you seem to have missed it, farmers grow rice, as well as other produce,if they didn't then city folk would not have any food to eat, unless, horror of horrors, Thailand imports rice (huge loss of face), and other produce. Civil unrest is on its way.

Actually no drinking water in cities is far more damaging as the loss of face of having to import rice. But there is still an surplus of rice even with the drought so it does not really matter for the city dwellers that the farmers don't produce rice right now.

People can go quite some time without food, but only a few days without water. Get the point ! water should not be wasted on farming now that drinking water could be a problem. Food can be imported (not needed as there is still sufficient rice) but water.. that is a big problem.

Stockpiles exist because as they are used they are topped up, by the next crop, no next crop, no stockpile/surplus. Also, for some rice, contracts are signed, if the government reneges then the buyer can sue them, do you think old cha cha wants that. Oh, and what a foolish comment, "People can go quite some time without food", do u really think they can go a whole season, until the next crop comes in, assuming the drought ends. A hungry nation does not bowed well for any government, even for a legitimately elected one, never mind one, in by force.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Rorri