Airport Taxi Scam?

[cwilliam]

That was a scam for sure. Anytime you enter a taxi and (1) the meter is off and (2) he doesn't quote a price, then you are in DEEP trouble because he will tell you the price when you get to the destination and it aint gonna be cheap and you'll have a tougher time backing out.

If you don't have enough sense to get the price of a taxi right before you move you deserve to be taken advantage of

I disagree in this case. All taxis from the taxi stand are required to use their meter. No need for any negotiations of any sort. You simply pay the meter, plus 50 Baht, plus any tollway charges. That's the way it's been for a long time in catching taxis from the airport taxi stand. There are signs (or at least there were at Don Muang) clearly stating the situation. If he didn't turn on the meter as required, no payment should be given to him and he should be reported for his illegal activities.

Well you got the price right before you got in who is talking about the meter? :lol:Or the taxi stand!

Edited October 31, 2006 by cwilliam

[opothai]

If you don't have enough sense to get the price of a taxi right before you move you deserve to be taken advantage of

come on man, what sort of introduction do you want from the country,

first experience a taxi and a rip off.

i know los is not perfect but it's a place i like and when i talk to other people i can not defend these sort of actions.

[Jeffery Stanthorpe]

And to those who say incoming passengers might think the touts are the only option, i say that it is easy to find out their alternative by being smart, savvy and self-interested consumers.

Bendix, your logic is sound.

Many people on this thread have whinged about limos touting for excessive prices. This is not true.

When I arrive at Bangkok airport after a long flight, I'm very happy to pay the extra money for a limousine to Pattaya. I end up travelling in much more comfort in a more spacious car...and hence it's worth the extra money to me.

I walk out of arrivals, hit the limo desk right outside the exit, pay the 2000 (June) and my luggage is promptly whisked away and I'm out of there in a few minutes while others are sweating in the tropical heat in a queue trying to negotiate a price for a taxi. Sometimes it's worth spending a little more...and it's not really much more.

All transport is not equal. You can't compare taxi prices to those of a limousine service anymore than you can compare a taxi to a bus.

i booked a limousine previously and got a toyota I was expecting a stetch limo like back in the states. Man ! it was a big let down for me, Driver said 'toyata no 1 )

I guess you could call that a scam

[pap]

information assymetry = scam.

one mans information assymetry is another mans scam.

[bendix]

Utter nonsense.

Information assymetry occurs when someone has more information, skills, expertise than another party in ANY economic transaction. If everyone in the world had the same knowledge and skills then the world of commerce would collapse - noone would need anyone else's skills, services or expertise.

The same principle applies in the employment market. If a (for example) web designer gets a job based on the fact that his employer needs a website designed and can't do it himself, is the web designer scamming the employer?

Of course not.

And as I pointed out before, information assymetry can easily be remedied by doing research, thus nullifying any potential advantage the seller has.

Edited November 2, 2006 by bendix

[TokyoT]

In most situations I would back you on the information asymmetry – but not on this one. AOT and more importantly the Thai Tourism Authorities should be tripping over themselves to eliminate the need for tourists to have to do research to avoid being ripped off upon arrival. The information asymmetry situation should be resolved by posting signs, and making the touts for “limousine” service wait in a different are. And any other possible steps of providing tourists with sufficient information to make their trip as hassle free as possible sould be taken. The Thai authorities should want to make people feel welcome and make their arrival as painless as possible. I think the burden in this situation should fall on the Thai authorities and not the consumer to relieve the information asymmetry.

The arrival area is small and crowded. These “limousine” touts should not be allowed to hang out in this area. They should be moved out of the arrival area and downstairs – if one has to find their own way to the metered taxies, there is no reason they should not have to find their own way to these “limousine” touts. I also think they should tear out the set of booths (rental car booths I think) that one has to walk around to get to the escalators to go down stairs to catch the taxies. One should not have to walk a gauntlet to simply go get a taxi. Welcome to Thailand.

[bendix]

Good points, well made TokyoT.

I concede that more could be done to make it clearer that a metered taxi service is available and easy to use. But - really - it doesnt take a rocket science to find them. As has been pointed out several times already, I walk around with my head up my arse most of the time, and I find them . . . . so it can't be that hard.

;-)

Edited November 2, 2006 by bendix

[ovenman]

AOT and more importantly the Thai Tourism Authorities should be tripping over themselves to eliminate the need for tourists to have to do research to avoid being ripped off upon arrival. The information asymmetry situation should be resolved by posting signs, and making the touts for “limousine” service wait in a different are.

I was at Suvarnabhumi Airport yesterday. I did notice such a sign posted on the way to baggage claim. It was an AOT sign warning of the perils of unauthorized taxi operators. One could argue that with the AOT being aware of the problem, they should do something about clearing the actual touts out of the arrivals hall. The airport authority's refusal to do so lends credence to the theory that the taxi touts operate in the arrival hall with the palms up cooperation of the AOT.

[pap]

AOT and more importantly the Thai Tourism Authorities should be tripping over themselves to eliminate the need for tourists to have to do research to avoid being ripped off upon arrival. The information asymmetry situation should be resolved by posting signs, and making the touts for “limousine” service wait in a different are.

I was at Suvarnabhumi Airport yesterday. I did notice such a sign posted on the way to baggage claim. It was an AOT sign warning of the perils of unauthorized taxi operators. One could argue that with the AOT being aware of the problem, they should do something about clearing the actual touts out of the arrivals hall. The airport authority's refusal to do so lends credence to the theory that the taxi touts operate in the arrival hall with the palms up cooperation of the AOT.

Clearing the touts out a little would reduce the entry way congestion as well. They don't need to put them out of business...just organize it a little better. All in all my experiences at the new airport have been great. Much better than I expected after the shakey start I read about on this forum.

[pap]

Utter nonsense.

Information assymetry occurs when someone has more information, skills, expertise than another party in ANY economic transaction. If everyone in the world had the same knowledge and skills then the world of commerce would collapse - noone would need anyone else's skills, services or expertise.

The same principle applies in the employment market. If a (for example) web designer gets a job based on the fact that his employer needs a website designed and can't do it himself, is the web designer scamming the employer?

Of course not.

And as I pointed out before, information assymetry can easily be remedied by doing research, thus nullifying any potential advantage the seller has.

Your arguement and mine is only a matter of degrees and how you define something which was my point. Informed people are rarely scammed. Why? Because if they know about a scam they are much more difficult to scam. Information assymetry is what allows scams to occur in the first place.

Thus I stand by "One mans Information assymetry is another mans scam."

Cheers

[khunyae]

For taxi from Suvarnabhumi to Bangkok, go to lower level for a metered taxi from the taxi rank. You will wait in line for 5-15 mins. Tell the girl in booth where you want to go, and they give you a slip of paper. You will be directed to an air-conditioned taxi. Repeat your destination to the driver. He MUST switch on meter. You will be charged meter + 50 Baht airport fee. If I remember corrrectly, this totals around 250 Baht to Sukhmvit area.

Limo to BKK, no idea. Never done it as it is generally a rip-off - no such thing as a "limo" service in Thailand.

Airport Shuttle Bus to most hotels in central BKK, around 150 baht. Departures every 20-30 minutes from the end of the arrivals hall.

----------------------------

For taxi from Suvarnabhumi to Pattaya, ask someone on this board and they will provide you with one of hundreds of phone numbers. Call or SMS the day before your arrival with name, flight number, arrival time. Someone will meet you with your name on a sign-board at "meeting point" just outside arrivals gate. You will be taken to a normal air-con taxi without delay or hassle and driven to Pattaya. You will not have to share the ride. Meter will be off - this is a private hire. You will pay 1,000 Baht + tolls.

Limo to Pattaya:

Hustlers will put you in a standard car, call it a limo, and charge up to 3,000 Baht.

Airlines (Thai has a good service), Limo Booking Desks will put you in a Mercedes, Lexus, comparable car and charge 1,500-2,500 Baht depending on quality of car and how busy they are. If you can get this for 1,500 or less you have a good deal.

Bus to Pattaya:

Taxi from lower level to Ekkami Bus Station : approx 300 Baht.

Air-Con bus (full of girls) leaving every 30 mins to Pattaya : 124 Baht.

Total Cost: 424 Baht.

Edited November 2, 2006 by khunyae

[1Lucky]

Sorry Bendix - I thought from your earlier posting that you'd already 'got your coat' and left and didn't see that you had returned. An interesting reply but I hope you'll forgive me for pointing out the obvious - intellectually dishonest. I've seen some recent letters to the editors in the papers recently on this very subject so it seems that nothing has been done to change the situation though I haven't been to sue-wan-a-phoom myself recently.

Lucky

[samran]

Good points, well made TokyoT.

I concede that more could be done to make it clearer that a metered taxi service is available and easy to use. But - really - it doesnt take a rocket science to find them. As has been pointed out several times already, I walk around with my head up my arse most of the time, and I find them . . . . so it can't be that hard.

;-)

Agree with all points, however, if we were talking about Australia (say) here, AOT would most likely be in violition of the trades practice act - probably the most well known piece of law that encompasses all the economic principals you'd ever want. Thailand, as your staff will tell you Bendix, has competition legislation, but there still is no real agreement on the definitions of 'monopoly' and 'market' so it is in fact, a pretty useless piece of legislation.

But in my mind, using the equivalent Australian standard (and the original intent of the Thai legislation) AOT are abusing their market power to substantially lessen competition. In this case, they are using their power over signage in the airport facility to misdirect people into using facitilites (ie AOT limo's) and not giving people the full information to make a decision.

Not withstanding that many people seem to leave their brains on the plane when they arrive in Thailand (present company excluded of course...) the fact that AOT does use their monopoly ownership of the airport facitilties to skew the competitive market place of another market (ie the one for transport from the airport) would likely be illegal in a competition law context.

Further more, if we want to go on to talk about access regiemes, where the monopoly owner of the infrastructure facitlity is manadated to provide all operators equal and fair access to use those facitilties, then AOT should be allowing taxi's to use the airport on equal terms as their limo's.

So what does it boil down to? AOT placing a bloody big sign in front of the exit saying "Public Meter Taxi's available downstairs".

Edited December 11, 2006 by samran

[samran]

http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiry/airports/fina...rt/airports.pdf

page 162 for anyone who likes this stuff.

[swindonabroad]

Informed buyers of everything the world over tend to get better deals based on their research of various options, alternatives and knowledge of other suppliers.

Think that sort of proved the others ponts. The important word being INFORMED

[1Lucky]

Why on earth would a visitor to the Kingdom want to waste their time having to do research into how not to get ripped off at the airport by the airport authorities? Of course the authorities can choose to rip off people who first arrive. The point is the impression this makes on visitors - both tourists and business people. If that's the impression the authorities want to make then fine - go ahead as they are doing. If instead they wish to ensure that visitors get the true impression of the kindness of thai people and encourage tourism and investment in Thailand then my suggestion would be to apply at least a basic level of common sense to the taxi arrangements at the airport - its hardly rocket science. I thought making a good impression and looking modern and developed, etc. was all part of the reason for having the new airport in the first place.

[The Skipper]

For years at Don Muang I wondered why there was so frequently a shortage of metered taxis available at the airport (enormous queues, few taxis, etc.) but plenty of 'limosine services' for double the metered price into town.

Now at the new airport whilst I didn't have a problem queuing for the metered taxis and didn't have a problem getting them to put the meter on I did wonder why there were virtually no signs to the taxi area. There were plenty of people allowed to hang around offering 'limosine' serivces but no simple signs to the taxi area (other than a confusing piece of A4 paper celotaped to a stairway). Looking at the maps of the airport there also appears to be an enormous parking area dedicated to limosine taxis and a comparatively much smaller area for metered taxis.

Unless I have misunderstood I also understand that if you want to get a local bus into town you first have to get a shuttle bus from the airport to the local bus stand and then get the bus. Not very helpful if you have plenty of baggage and are new in town.

Is this really just inefficiency or is there some scam/vested interests behind all this trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of new arrivals?

Lucky

Somone in authority at the Airport is endorsing this activity in attempt to fleece new arrivals. That's all. Nothing new.

You're just a stupid foreigner with too much money is the attitude.

Most novice tourists are cheated from the moment they arrive till the moment they step onto the departing plane. Professional con artists posing as Taxi Drivers/Tuk Tuks/ Tour Guides, are posted in front of every hotel.

The parking adjacent to the hotels is reserved for the organized scammers. They pay the Police to be allowed to hang out.

Legit, honest Taxi drivers are not allowed to park there. Thai taxi drivers have told me the only reason the drivers learn English is so "they can lie to the Farang"....Yes, that is a quote from a taxi driver and a common attitude.

Locals all know to never ask a parked Taxi, near a Hotel for a ride. They are only trolling in the tourists area, screwing over novice travelers. I see the same drivers, year after year cheating the hotel guests.

Does the Hotel staff know about this? Of course. Do thet warn the guests? Of course not. They don't care.

Organized hoards of con artists are lined up at just about every tourist stop too, telling people the Temple, River, Hotel, etc. is closed, then lead unsuspecting tourists on a elaborate scam/overcharging episode.

Unless you are involved in the Tourism Industry (like me), it may not be apparent.

It really is at epidemic levels.

And where does a cheated tourist go for some help?

The Police?

[ThaiPauly]

On my first trip to LOS, I was confronted by what I now know to be a "Tout" and offered to transport me to BK for 600 Baht..tired and weary and seeing no other signs for taxis I agreed.

now 600 b aht is not a life altering amount to any of us, but it was still a sam in my book.

But they are presenting themsleves as taxis!...or what does "Taxi Sir" mean ?

How many people do you know that have had the same thing happen to them on their first trip here until they wised up. I know many.

I recently returned to LOS after a trip home and ran the gauntlet until I managed to find some security guards who directed me to the rank.

Not easy to get to when you have to wait 10 minutes for the lift to go up and down before you can get in it.

They sure don't make life easy for you if you just want a simple red& blue

Edited May 13, 2007 by ThaiPauly

[ovenman]

Locals all know to never ask a parked Taxi, near a Hotel for a ride. They are only trolling in the tourists area, screwing over novice travelers. I see the same drivers, year after year cheating the hotel guests.

Does the Hotel staff know about this? Of course. Do thet warn the guests? Of course not. They don't care.

The last statement is not entirely true. I've stayed in plenty of hotels where warnings are posted regarding the taxis/tuk-tuks that are parked in front of or adjacent to the hotel.

[lazeeboy]

Locals all know to never ask a parked Taxi, near a Hotel for a ride. They are only trolling in the tourists area, screwing over novice travelers. I see the same drivers, year after year cheating the hotel guests.

Does the Hotel staff know about this? Of course. Do thet warn the guests? Of course not. They don't care.

The last statement is not entirely true. I've stayed in plenty of hotels where warnings are posted regarding the taxis/tuk-tuks that are parked in front of or adjacent to the hotel.

i read some where ,maybe on tv that as of the 1st june metered taxi's will be moved up to the domestic arrivals floor and the limo's down to the ground floor ,if this happens then all passengers would come to the taxi meters before the limo's' if you join the queue then the meter will go on you pay 50b on top of the fare and any tolls you go thru

[sriracha john]

Clearer transport signs needed at airport

"Beware of illegal airport taxis. Look for our official yellow AoT limousines."

"For your safety and comfort, please use AoT limousines."

Incoming passengers waiting for their belongings unloaded from planes at each of the 22 baggage claim carousels at Suvarnabhumi airport will see either one of those big ads at their luggage collection points. The messages clearly target visitors who are about to leave the new, controversial airport for the capital or other cities. Limousine touts even approach passengers preparing to leave the baggage area for the arrival hall to try to persuade them to pick their service. Like most other ads, they only tell half the truth and carefully avoid mention of the negative side of their products. The other side of the information the Airports of Thailand Plc intentionally forgets to tell the ad readers is that convenience and comfort always come with extra charges. Using AoT vehicles mean the riders have to pay more. There are more than AoT's limousines on offer outside the world's largest single terminal airport. Public buses, express airport buses and public taxis are there too.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/16May2007_news19.php

[cwilliam]

Yes, I suppose you are right. I suppose my 4-week stint back in the US reinstated my gullibility, along with destroying my heat tolerance.

The scam is all the touts trying to get you into their bandit cabs so they can rip you off.Why are they allowed to stand around and try to rip people off.Who are they paying off?

Edited May 16, 2007 by cwilliam

[andyashley]

Yes, I suppose you are right. I suppose my 4-week stint back in the US reinstated my gullibility, along with destroying my heat tolerance.

The scam is all the touts trying to get you into their bandit cabs so they can rip you off.Why are they allowed to stand around and try to rip people off.Who are they paying off?

This is Thaialnd u forget. There are plenty of people to pay off.

[mmushr00m]

Head up to arrivals and grab a cab there.

The taxis have just dropped someone off and are technically not allowed pick anyone up.

And since they dont want an empty cab back to BKK, they'll just click on the meter, no arguments no hassles. And you save yourself the 50baht surcharge