Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[phuketandsee]

Interesting comment posted by a Burmese on Andy Hall's FB page regarding the involvement and fate of the wearer of the No9 football jersey. Maybe this is going to unravel after all as the Burmese start to talk.

[DiscoDan]

He said that British police who were previously involved in examining the case were satisfied with the performance of the Thai police and had informed the victims’ relatives who have expressed their recognition and satisfaction with the Thai justice system

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/media-told-not-to-revive-doubtful-issues-regarding-the-murder-of-british-backpackers-in-koh-tao

[stickylies]

Meanwhile in Burma there's social media campaign to boycott Thai goods/products.

[IslandLover]

I think many of us expected, and dreaded, this verdict. But what has surprised and upset and confounded me is Michael Miller's statement. I have no wish to criticize the Miller family who must have been, and are continuing to go through hell, but I find the statement very strange and sad not least because of the way it is being used by the Thai media, and some here, to justify the appalling miscarriage of justice in this case. I have no doubt it will be often trotted out by the authorities in the weeks to come.

When he says that the RTP investigation has been "methodical and thorough" when it has so clearly has not and that they "raped to satisfy their selfish desires" he seems to be reading from the prosecution's playbook. As as been often noted on previous threads rape is not a crime of "desire" it is an act of violent power and control. Something is not right here.

Well, I will criticize the Miller family. The statement is complete B/S and probably engineered by others. They clearly have no remorse or sensitivity for the Burmese mothers witnessing their rhetoric. I know I'll be open to abuse but like them it's my opinion.

@Stephenterry - I couldn't agree with you (and phuketandsee) more. I presume you have seen the photo from the Daily Mail which I posted elsewhere yesterday? Absolutely heartbreaking for the mothers of the B2. I had expected better of the Millers. On the other hand, the Witheridge family has handled the verdict with dignity (so far). Let us not forget there are 4 families affected by this tragedy. No matter what happens to you in this life, there are times when you should show restraint and keep your feelings to yourself. I guess I was brought up differently than the young hotheads of today.

[MrTee]

Interesting comment posted by a Burmese on Andy Hall's FB page regarding the involvement and fate of the wearer of the No9 football jersey. Maybe this is going to unravel after all as the Burmese start to talk.

Can you elaborate or supply a link please?

I can see Andy's FB page, but I cannot find the post you mention

[phuketandsee]

A couple of months ago I happened to meet someone who works with Hanah's cousin and she said the family definitely does not believe what they have been told by the FCO and the British police. If true that would go a long way to explaining their much more dignified response.

[seedy]

One Post with many news quotes hidden - previously posted

[glenmohr]

Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world.

Millers Brother obviously knows nothing about Thailand or the mafia that control Koh Samui.

I was disgusted thast the prune stood up and read out loud his arogant statement.

I do not wish to criticise them but they uinfortunately deserve it.

I t is blatently obvious to those with only half a brain that this case is a massive shame on the Thai Justice system and them.

They have been mandy pandied by Thai authorities and possibly Brittish diplomats to not rock the boat.

I would like to thank them for helping handing out a Xmas death sentence to two innocent boys and their families.

How could the B2 show remorse if they are innocent, it is beyond belief that greaveing and blind single minded thinking seems to have blinded them into making this statement.

I am disgusted and shocked and hope that these two boys can get a decent defense for an appeal.

Shame on you Mr Miller.

I was somewhat bewildered by Miller's statement.

David Miller was a hero and died a hero. I am certain he will be turning in his grave at the injustice brought about by this farce of a trial.

However on reflection and watching the statement being read twice, something does not fit.

Although the verdict had only just finished being delivered, Miller had copious notes to read from. The terminology suggests it was not drafted by a native speaker. I am convinced Miller did not compose that statement, it was pre arranged by a third party.

[phuketandsee]

Interesting comment posted by a Burmese on Andy Hall's FB page regarding the involvement and fate of the wearer of the No9 football jersey. Maybe this is going to unravel after all as the Burmese start to talk.

Can you elaborate or supply a link please?

I can see Andy's FB page, but I cannot find the post you mention

Links to FB are not allowed here. PM me

[iReason]

One Post with many news quotes hidden - previously posted

Edited December 25, 2015 by iReason

[glenmohr]

Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world.

Millers Brother obviously knows nothing about Thailand or the mafia that control Koh Samui.

I was disgusted thast the prune stood up and read out loud his arogant statement.

I do not wish to criticise them but they uinfortunately deserve it.

I t is blatently obvious to those with only half a brain that this case is a massive shame on the Thai Justice system and them.

They have been mandy pandied by Thai authorities and possibly Brittish diplomats to not rock the boat.

I would like to thank them for helping handing out a Xmas death sentence to two innocent boys and their families.

How could the B2 show remorse if they are innocent, it is beyond belief that greaveing and blind single minded thinking seems to have blinded them into making this statement.

I am disgusted and shocked and hope that these two boys can get a decent defense for an appeal.

Shame on you Mr Miller.

Get off your high horse and get real, shame on you for mocking Mr Miller! I hope you don't have a murdered relative, how was he suppose to react?

I am confused Tribal fusion. First you say it is old news and then you go on to make numerous posts on what you say is old news, does not that make it new news again?

By the way " How was he supposed to react ?" The same way the Witheridge's family have reacted. With dignity, with caution and with great restraint under the circumstances

[Luang]

Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world.

Millers Brother obviously knows nothing about Thailand or the mafia that control Koh Samui.

I was disgusted thast the prune stood up and read out loud his arogant statement.

I do not wish to criticise them but they uinfortunately deserve it.

I t is blatently obvious to those with only half a brain that this case is a massive shame on the Thai Justice system and them.

They have been mandy pandied by Thai authorities and possibly Brittish diplomats to not rock the boat.

I would like to thank them for helping handing out a Xmas death sentence to two innocent boys and their families.

How could the B2 show remorse if they are innocent, it is beyond belief that greaveing and blind single minded thinking seems to have blinded them into making this statement.

I am disgusted and shocked and hope that these two boys can get a decent defense for an appeal.

Shame on you Mr Miller.

I was somewhat bewildered by Miller's statement.

David Miller was a hero and died a hero. I am certain he will be turning in his grave at the injustice brought about by this farce of a trial.

However on reflection and watching the statement being read twice, something does not fit.

Although the verdict had only just finished being delivered, Miller had copious notes to read from. The terminology suggests it was not drafted by a native speaker. I am convinced Miller did not compose that statement, it was pre arranged by a third party.

It absolutely was and pre-meditated. FCO would be my guess.

[Motown239]

It's appalling and ludicrous. It's surreal. I don't allow others to void my inner peace, but the verdict fractured my love for Thailand.

[glenmohr]

Latest from Andy Hall is that the defence's case will be heard by Region 8 Appeals court (Surat Thani) and the outcome likely from October 2016. Koh Samui is in the Surat Thani province, and I have little doubt that they would agree with the verdict made by their legal colleagues.

In which case, the defence will present it to the Supreme court - and by then we could be looking at late 2017 for the outcome. By then, war in Syria would have taken precedence.

The other real possibility is that the incarcerated Burmese may not live long enough to be present for the appeal, suicides in jail are commonplace around this part of the world.I had heard that there are literally queues of people waiting to assist anyone who wants a final solution to their situation!

[Nigeone]

Having followed this case throughout It seems that there is a new turn of events with everyday..Like most on here I'm not convinced that the B2 had anything to do with this terrible crime and with certainty the RTP have never gone close to proving guilt. The incorrect procedures and downright incompetence has been shown through the trial and investigation. Now we have the almost bizarre statement from. The Miller family which I can't get my head around.. They as a family spent quite a few days observing in court and therefore I find it incomprehensible that they should issue this statement. However they have but I for one believe they could regret this. I'm convinced this case isn't over by a long stretch and someone I'm convinced are going to talk and there'll story will one day soon ! come out. And don't put it past the UK media to do some investigations to find out the truth...There's a very big story hidden in this story and they will find it for sure. Respect to Hannah's family for the dignified response to the verdict and to all the well meaning knowledgable people on here who I'm sure like some have said come from all walks of life and many very professional people in these fields I thank you for your fight for justice. As just a ordinary person seeing what seems a incredibly bad injustice being carried out and to spend so much time and efforts to debate and offer opinions and dig up so much hidden information restores my faith in mankind. To the defenders of the RTP you have come out of all this very badly despite the initial verdict but I respect everyone's opinions although I have found them at times despicable... To the B2 families the fight is surely not over but if evidence is produced that is indisputable and honestly obtained proving the B2 guilty I would for sure be happy to accept it. However it's quite clear that in this case this has no way happened. Sending you all best wishes from my country and to the new friends I have met through here I wish you every happiness.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Nigeone

[glenmohr]

Iam dugusted, with Britains stance on this case. But of course it is called diplomacy! So now we are lickspittles to the third world.

Millers Brother obviously knows nothing about Thailand or the mafia that control Koh Samui.

I was disgusted thast the prune stood up and read out loud his arogant statement.

I do not wish to criticise them but they uinfortunately deserve it.

I t is blatently obvious to those with only half a brain that this case is a massive shame on the Thai Justice system and them.

They have been mandy pandied by Thai authorities and possibly Brittish diplomats to not rock the boat.

I would like to thank them for helping handing out a Xmas death sentence to two innocent boys and their families.

How could the B2 show remorse if they are innocent, it is beyond belief that greaveing and blind single minded thinking seems to have blinded them into making this statement.

I am disgusted and shocked and hope that these two boys can get a decent defense for an appeal.

Shame on you Mr Miller.

Did Millers brother who claims to have sat through the trial, understand a word of Thai ? Has he lived here in Thailand long enough to be able to genuinely say that he has greatest respect for the Thai police and their methods, i doubt many long term residents would agree with him. DELETED

Interesting point there Clockman, it is a 99% chance that Mr Miller does not speak or understand Thai. Therefore any knowledge of the court proceedings have been relayed by an interpreter who we assume was a Thai national. Therefore he was only told what they wanted him to hear. Anyone with experience among interpreters knows that is the way it works. They have all the power. But many reports say he did not sit through the trial but flew in for the verdict which was clearly prearranged and delayed for timing reasons.

[berybert]

Maybe time to close the thread until then? All this misguided armchair speculation might be titillating for some, but is distasteful and doesn't help anyone.

I completely agree. Playing armchair detective is one thing, but now that people start to call the family of the victims ignorant and having their statement engineerd, and even looking forward for appeals to get another free holiday, is simply disgusting and if I was the Miller family reading those posts a defamation suit against Thaivisa would be on its way already.

Or even more perhaps, the family of the victims has access to information that is not available to CSI Thaivisa.

Amazing that people ask for this thread to be closed because they have something against free speech.

More amazing they accuse people of making things up then do the self same thing themselves.

[glenmohr]

the shame the legal system brings on itself is downright amazing .....this bought and paid for ruling has every employee of the so called legal system hanging their heads in shame . their next thought is , if the police can do this , am I safe ? can it happen to me or my family ? the answer is yes if the money is right . this ruling ascends beautiful Thailand on the scale of human rights violations . north Korea and Thailand are about in the same place as far as law , crime , punishment , slavery and corruption go . but I love this country , its people , and culture . the power's that be , ehhh..... not so much .

No Thai will hang their head in shame as they do not feel remorse or guilt. They do not feel remorse or guilt when they do something bad because they do not possess a conscience. They do not have a conscience, as most of us do in the West, because it is not naturally innate. It is a genetically inherited cultural 'meme' which in our evolution we have aquired mainly from Christianity but which is absent from Buddhism and Thai culture:

Common secular or scientific views regard the capacity for conscience as probably genetically determined, with its subject probably learned or imprinted (like language) as part of a culture.^{[4]........from Wikipedia.}

Probably the best post so far, in a nutshell explains all any one needs to know about this sad affair, congratulations SunsetT for being the light that shows us the way!

[glenmohr]

The b2 did not murder Hannah and David.

on a scale of 0 to 100, we give you a score of 105.

[balo]

This Michael Millar fella is probably looking forward to the appeals so he can have another free holiday and again compliment the locals on how well they have treated him.

He comes across as someone enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.

You should be ashamed of yourself .

[connda]

As long as fresh meat is available to toss under the wheels of the bus called 'Justice', all is well in the Western mind.

There is more than one tragedy here.

[sanukjim]

I think that the BIB were pressured into just arresting any one to prosecute and in this case I believe that one of the "elite son of a well known person " escaped because of influence and these guys are just canon fodder.

[berybert]

This Michael Millar fella is probably looking forward to the appeals so he can have another free holiday and again compliment the locals on how well they have treated him.

He comes across as someone enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.

You should be ashamed of yourself .

Far from it. The only shame I have is that these people are also British. They have let 65 million of their fellow citizens down by going along with this Thai charade.

Absolutely despicable.

[Islandlife]

He s brother seemed very convinsed.

[Adeeos]

Maybe I'm incorrect,,, but wasn't it the Uncle, etc,,, of the main, "suspect" the one,, while assitting the police with the initial crime scene "investigation",, the one that pointed out,, that the hoe, that a beach worker found in the virtual darkeness, and moved back to it's original location,,, was NOT in the spot it should've been?... Please correct me if I'm wrong,,,,

[icare999]

For all u non believers, watch bbc and see the brother and family make a statement, nothing but praise for the justice system, they have been there for many months, visiting the ocurts, not you keyboard warriors that want to knock Thailand at every opportunity. the burmese guys had top lawyers paid for by an activist group, how pathetic, activisits are idiots.

here we go, the troll is back !

are you saying family did not say they are happy with verdict or did not spend months with police both Thai and British or Burmese did not have top lawyers dont just knock this report say where its wrong

Edited December 25, 2015 by icare999

[greenchair]

At the end of the day. There is no explaining how David's phone came to be in Zaw possession. Or why they concealed it knowing what was happening at the time. Or why Muang Muang and Zaw went back to the vicinity in the early hours to look for their belongings. Or why they were washing themselves in the sea in the early hours of the morning. My only question is "why did they let Muang Muang go? " and I do think there are others involved.

[BSJ]

Given the way this whole saga has played out the real crime is coming to the conclusion this outcome is the right one.

[BSJ]

The way this saga has played out the real tragedy would be to assume this outcome is the right one!

[xylophone]

For all u non believers, watch bbc and see the brother and family make a statement, nothing but praise for the justice system, they have been there for many months, visiting the ocurts, not you keyboard warriors that want to knock Thailand at every opportunity. the burmese guys had top lawyers paid for by an activist group, how pathetic, activisits are idiots.

here we go, the troll is back !

are you saying family did not say they are happy with verdict or did not spend months with police both Thai and British or Burmese did not have top lawyers dont just knock this report say where its wrong

You forgot a very important aspect...........the verdict was bought and paid for long before the end of the trial so no matter what the family believed or how many "top lawyers" there were in attendance the guilty verdict was the "face saving", bought and paid for outcome.

When you approach this from two different perspectives you can see why a great majority of the posters here support the innocence of the B2, and yet just a few others support the guilty verdict, let me explain...........

Those who believe that the B2 are innocent are judging this on how such a case would be presented in a first-world country with a justice system which although not perfect, has, by and large, stood the test of time. They, like me, believe that the fact that the crime scene was contaminated, that the police collecting the evidence were not trained to do so, that crucial evidence has gone missing, that important CCTV footage was never viewed, that the supposed murder weapon was shown as two different hoes, that the wounds in David's head did not match the murder weapon...............and so much more.

All of the above and other aspects of the case would have ensured that in a first-world country the case would have been thrown out a long time ago.

Now consider the other perspective; the supporters of the guilty verdict are looking at it from their viewpoint, accepting that Thailand is a Third World country and is known for its corruption, human trafficking and other human rights violations, that the BIB have been proven to be corrupt time and time again as have many people in power, that money can buy absolutely ANYTHING (lives included), that saving face is more important than anything else............and so on, so you get the picture.

So they either accept the verdict because of the above, or because they refuse to believe that any of the points in the last paragraph actually do exist. In both cases I believe they are morally bankrupt.

And you can judge the intelligence level of one of them who posted something along the lines of, "wow, they are innocent because the date/time was incorrect" in a sarcastic remark relating to the huge discrepancies in DNA testing procedures, when that discrepancy alone would have ensured that evidence was considered "null and void" in any legal system apart from one in which the verdict was bought beforehand.