Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[docshock13]

In news related to the OP, Burmese gov't spokesperson has said the gov't will support the B2 throughout the appeals process until the end. I.e. if appellate court and supreme courts do not overturn the conviction, they will petition the King's Council.

[TheCruncher]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC

Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

Thanks for denouncing the myth spread by tv armchair experts that the DNA test were completed within 24 hours.

[arrowsdawdle]

What is this overwhelming evidence that only the court and the families seem to know?

[Bluespunk]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC

Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

BBC report on case (from this thread)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

[oneday]

"...Grieving families of slain duo relieved after court verdict..."

You have to be a complete idiot to actually believe the right people were found and convicted...assuming you were reading the news from court on a daily basis. Most expats, and I would like to think Thais, are far from "relieved".

[TheCruncher]

In news related to the OP, Burmese gov't spokesperson has said the gov't will support the B2 throughout the appeals process until the end. I.e. if appellate court and supreme courts do not overturn the conviction, they will petition the King's Council.

You should tell the whole story.

The Myanmar government continues support to lower the death sentence, not because they think they are innocent.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/myanmar-govt-vows-to-continue-support-for-convicted-koh-tao-duo

he said, adding that if needed the government would appeal to the Thai Privy Council for a reduction in the sentences.

[kiwikeith]

The glove does not fit!

The crime scene was an abortion. Walked over and polluted.

A lawyer wittnessed marks on the B2's bodies from supposed torture, he was dismissed, Hello again.

CCTV footage that never was presented.

No DNA on the murder weapon, Hello.

If the B2 smoked easy to pick up butts from where they were playing guitar.

Dna lost or used up by prosecution, maybe because it was degraded or polutted in the first place, the b2 can't have it tested now.

Suddenly the B2 stop singing and playing guitar, they change' the dual personality kicks in that they both suffer from , they gain super strength, pick up a hoe at the same time leaving no DNA on it and commit a violent crime.

Sentence them to death on this farcical opera = end of story the dead can't talk.

I sincerely hope that if this farce if true, then that all the actors in this orchestrated littany of deception have a Merry Xmas and sleep well throughout the rest of their days.

[Bluespunk]

The families seem to be convinced of their guilt (BBC) and they attended the trial. They also, no doubt, had access to information not privy to the rest of us. I would refrain from jumping to conclusions and 'Thai bashing' to be honest. Let's see what happens at the inevitable appeal.

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC

Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

Thanks for denouncing the myth spread by tv armchair experts that the DNA test were completed within 24 hours.

From BBC report on this case

"In court, a police officer testified those samples were received on the morning of 17 September and started DNA extraction at 08:00 local time. This seems unlikely as the pathologist only started his autopsy at 11:00. The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00.

It suggests remarkably rapid analysis, in less than 12 hours, from samples in which at least three people's DNA - the victim and the two men - were mixed."

[TheCruncher]

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC

Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

Thanks for denouncing the myth spread by tv armchair experts that the DNA test were completed within 24 hours.

From BBC report on this case

"In court, a police officer testified those samples were received on the morning of 17 September and started DNA extraction at 08:00 local time. This seems unlikely as the pathologist only started his autopsy at 11:00. The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00.

It suggests remarkably rapid analysis, in less than 12 hours, from samples in which at least three people's DNA - the victim and the two men - were mixed."

It says they received the samples, not the results.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Boycott Koh Tao......

exactly. and i personally inform any of my friends who plan to visit Thailand about this horrible event and the shameful aftermath.

They can't be young party-goers. I told my nephew and he couldn't care less - he's off to party.

I used to go to a dodgy nightclub when younger in Koh Pa Ngan, actually the very first one that there was on Haad Rin beach, I was young and liked to live dangerously. One Westerner was beheaded but we kept taking the amphetamine laced drinks sold openly, the magic mushroom omlettes and the copious amounts of marijuana. The head policeman saw it all. We were in Paradise. No old fart could have kept me away with a warning.

30 years later I'm still here and verging on becoming that old fart. Seen it all now, no surprises here. I love Thailand and she is the way she is. Too many(old farts) come here and expect what they like(ie buyable beautiful young ladies) but moan about the things they dislike. Thailand is still wonderful despite it's negative aspects.

[Patje55]

[SOTIRIOS]

....being at the mercy of the courts....and having to strain their finances at every turn....what else could they possibly say..

...their children go on vacation....and get violated and slaughtered....

...such a horror.....my deepest sympathies....

[stephenterry]

Extract from Miller statement. 'It is our opinion that the evidence against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo is overwhelming.'

My question is what overwhelming evidence (from a legal perspective) is there to support their opinion that the B2 killed David Miller? Any of the B2's DNA on any murder weapon or on DM's body? No. Excuse me?

Oh yes, they were in the vicinity of the crime scene at some point that night. They must have killed him. That's overwhelming enough to pass beyond reasonable doubt. Total B/S and a charade from start to finish.

[DM07]

Zzzzzz, Christmas Day, my thoughts are with the victims!

Oh...and which victims might that be?

By any chance the B2 rotting in a jail on flimsy "evidence"?

No, of course not!

As you stated so eloquently ...no...eloquent is not the word, I am looking for...what was it....oh yes: heart- or soulless...stated: game over!

[sanukjim]

These two are the BIB's answer to a investigation gone wrong. As in "catch somebody and get a confession any way so we look good".This is another reason that Kung Pontip is no longer the head of post mortem investigations.She is honest.

[hobobo]

Perhaps, hopefully, one day the true killer or killers will be apprehended, or admit the crime on his/their death bed. How will Michael Miller feel about his joy and celebration expressed after two innocent youngsters were sentenced to die. Maybe he'll just say Mai pen rai, sh*t happens!

[ronwparker]

They are just scapegoats those of us who know Thailand know how zenophobic most of the administration is(most Thai people are) and particularly against the Burmese!

[ronwparker]

I do not agree with this verdict-the RTpnare corrupt

[tingtongfarang]

Thankfully there an appeal process.

Hopefully the world media and governments put the heat on this shambles.

Is the judge required to give his/her summary of considerations which led to the verdict?

They wont get time to appeal. They will be executed quickly to save face & to stop the real perpetrator being caught. Just wait & see what the world (unrestricted) media do with this.

That will not happen. Executions are very rare in Thailand.

I doubt they will be executed as many first world or civilised countries citizens would view this as tantamount to arranged murder by order to protect the real culprits and save face.

[Bluespunk]

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC
Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

Thanks for denouncing the myth spread by tv armchair experts that the DNA test were completed within 24 hours.

From BBC report on this case

"In court, a police officer testified those samples were received on the morning of 17 September and started DNA extraction at 08:00 local time. This seems unlikely as the pathologist only started his autopsy at 11:00. The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00.
It suggests remarkably rapid analysis, in less than 12 hours, from samples in which at least three people's DNA - the victim and the two men - were mixed."

It says they received the samples, not the results.

"The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00."

[pedro01]

Extract from Miller statement. 'It is our opinion that the evidence against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo is overwhelming.'

My question is what overwhelming evidence (from a legal perspective) is there to support their opinion that the B2 killed David Miller? Any of the B2's DNA on any murder weapon or on DM's body? No. Excuse me?

Oh yes, they were in the vicinity of the crime scene at some point that night. They must have killed him. That's overwhelming enough to pass beyond reasonable doubt. Total B/S and a charade from start to finish.

It was their semen inside Hannah that id'd them.

Check out todays Bangkok Post or Nation if you want the gory details.

[TheCruncher]

Whereas the BBC reporter, who also attended, seems to have grave doubts

BBC

Miss Witheridge's family said they needed time "to digest the outcome of the trial verdict".

The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October - two days after police had announced a positive match. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated.

Lawyers defending the accused argued DNA from a garden hoe - allegedly used as the murder weapon - did not match samples taken from the men.

Mr Miller said the Thai police investigation was "not the so-called shambles it was made out to be". - he is one of the few ( RTP and a few on here ) that could make that statement.

Thanks for denouncing the myth spread by tv armchair experts that the DNA test were completed within 24 hours.

From BBC report on this case

"In court, a police officer testified those samples were received on the morning of 17 September and started DNA extraction at 08:00 local time. This seems unlikely as the pathologist only started his autopsy at 11:00. The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00.

It suggests remarkably rapid analysis, in less than 12 hours, from samples in which at least three people's DNA - the victim and the two men - were mixed."

It says they received the samples, not the results.

"The successful profiling of two men was announced at around 22:00."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865576611/New-DNA-testing-could-take-hours-not-weeks.html?pg=all

WEST JORDAN — Law enforcement officers can now run 90-minute DNA tests that once required weeks or months to complete, thanks to a new testing tool that could immediately point to suspects or help those who had nothing to do with a crime.

And from the same source that saiad it is impossible to do it in 12 hours.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-10873706

Forensic scientists have developed a test that can match a suspect's DNA to crime scene samples in just four hours.

The new technique could greatly speed up forensic DNA testing, making the process almost as easy as matching fingerprints.

[Moonsterk]

Would like to see the judges' rationale on how they arrived at the verdict.

Crappy defense, no surprise there. Lawyers would be on the shitelist the rest of their careers had they been successful. Now it can go to an upper court where an influential family won't have as much pull ( or will really have to up the ante..)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35170419

There were other problems too. The date of the original DNA analysis was said to have been 17 September, but the report submitted to court was dated 5 October. This was two days after the police had announced a positive match with the two Burmese defendants. That unexplained discrepancy inevitably raises suspicion that perhaps the result was manipulated....

The two police forensic witnesses were not cross-examined over the doubtful timings nor the scrappy and incomplete DNA documentation.

Had Ms Taupin been called, she could have exposed these flaws. Instead, she had to sit in the lawyers' room, largely ignored, and then fly home without testifying. Whatever views the three judges formed of the quality of the prosecution's evidence, it was never properly challenged in court.

I have asked one of the defence lawyers about their bafflingly non-adversarial tactics. He did not offer a convincing explanation.

Perhaps they were nervous of being seen to take too much advice from a foreigner, for fear they would lose sympathy from the judges.

Everyone in that court was aware how much Thailand's reputation was on the line, and discrediting the police in such a public way might have felt like a dangerous step to take. We just don't know.

Oh yes we do.

[Brer Fox]

I get the underlying feeling that Michael Miller and the rest of the family of the late David Miller would have been satisfied if Winnie the Pooh had been found guilty; just so long as someone was. He observes that the two convicted men had shown no remorse for what they had done. Very difficult to show remorse for something one has not done.

How would you feel if your brother had been brutally murdered? Sympathy should be with the victims, not the convicted.

If you don't like how the Thai system works, then don't bother coming here, it ain't going to change!

I am here as I have been for the past 11 years and you are stuck with me just like the Thai system of justice which you seem so much to approve of. Good for you, maybe one day quite by accident you could be on the receiving end of it. You seem to have some difficulty in reading and interpreting. Nowhere have I said the Burmese are guilty or not guilty and despite what you might believe I do have sympathy for the families of anyone who is murdered. I merely conjecture about the implications of remorse or the lack thereof. I suggest you brush up on your English expression, read the words carefully and slowly to yourself and open your mind to the opinions of others, not just your own.

[Bluespunk]

@TheCruncher

Yep can be done.

So not a myth then? Couple of questions, mind.

Does this technique work as quickly when there are multiple mixed samples?

Did the BIB have access to this technology when they conducted their tests?

Edited December 25, 2015 by Bluespunk

[stephenterry]

Extract from Miller statement. 'It is our opinion that the evidence against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo is overwhelming.'

My question is what overwhelming evidence (from a legal perspective) is there to support their opinion that the B2 killed David Miller? Any of the B2's DNA on any murder weapon or on DM's body? No. Excuse me?

Oh yes, they were in the vicinity of the crime scene at some point that night. They must have killed him. That's overwhelming enough to pass beyond reasonable doubt. Total B/S and a charade from start to finish.

It was their semen inside Hannah that id'd them.

Check out todays Bangkok Post or Nation if you want the gory details.

That is the RTP's assertion that has not been substantiated or validated because no original samples exist ('used up' was the terminology presented to the court). There is even doubt, according to the Norfolk UK coroner, because indications of rape were not present on the female victim. Hannah's clothes went 'missing' so there's no corroborative evidence, as has the blond hair clutched in her hand. To my mind, that's criminal. Legally speaking, there is zero evidence to support the B2 convictions of murder. It could have been anyone present at the crime scene.

Like a gang of Thai thugs.

[Moonsterk]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865576611/New-DNA-testing-could-take-hours-not-weeks.html?pg=all

WEST JORDAN — Law enforcement officers can now run 90-minute DNA tests that once required weeks or months to complete, thanks to a new testing tool that could immediately point to suspects or help those who had nothing to do with a crime.

And from the same source that saiad it is impossible to do it in 12 hours.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-10873706

Forensic scientists have developed a test that can match a suspect's DNA to crime scene samples in just four hours.

The new technique could greatly speed up forensic DNA testing, making the process almost as easy as matching fingerprints.

And did Thai forensic police have this new test? I remember they needed to ask Singapore to even ascertain the sex of the DNA samples. ( After refusing the FBI offer to help )

[TheCruncher]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865576611/New-DNA-testing-could-take-hours-not-weeks.html?pg=all

WEST JORDAN — Law enforcement officers can now run 90-minute DNA tests that once required weeks or months to complete, thanks to a new testing tool that could immediately point to suspects or help those who had nothing to do with a crime.

And from the same source that saiad it is impossible to do it in 12 hours.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-10873706

Forensic scientists have developed a test that can match a suspect's DNA to crime scene samples in just four hours.

The new technique could greatly speed up forensic DNA testing, making the process almost as easy as matching fingerprints.

And did Thai forensic police have this new test? I remember they needed to ask Singapore to even ascertain the sex of the DNA samples. ( After refusing the FBI offer to help )

I don't know if the Thai police has these test procedures, as I'm not involved in forensics, in contrast with most of the tv members.

If you read the articles from the links I posted, you will also find that the fast tests are limited in their testing abilities, but can confirm if a certain person was involved or not.

The fast test is rather to conclude if a suspect should be released or if there is a reason to keep him in custody longer.

For a complete test sample still have to go to a specialized lab and takes time. I think RTP also only announced complete testing result early October.

[Emster23]

Moving right along, I hope there will be an independent "suicide watch".... on RTP. Assisted suicide not legal here (as if law really matters...), but "suicide" of those two sure would make a tempting way to wrap this up....

[wabothai]

At the bottom of the case are some alleged incompetent, lying and cheating corrupt and ignorant small island cops who, not uncommonly, have failed to do their job which soon resulted in a whole bunch of officials running around like chickens without a head, trampling over evidence and making up stories under incompetent and decisive leadership.

The case is running out of hand and starts to make its own life under the control of ancient Asian laws of face.

Soon it becomes so big that all competent lawyers, leadership, foreign services, and justice system are not able to direct or control the magnitude of the circus.

Result: 2 boys are found guilty and getting the death penalty, not to forget, but less important, the frustration of tens of thousands of people.

How is an appeal going to change any of this?

The case is bigger than Thailand.