Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[brewsterbudgen]

There is a lot of interest, hence why this case is still talked about.

You are witnesing something very evil and sinister.

This is a tradgedy for everyone involved and particularly the nation of Thailand.

Maybe in Thailand and Myanmar. But it's hardly on the scale of Paris, which generated genuine worldwide concern.

But in Paris the true culprits were identified and either dealt with or being searched for. Whereas here the true culprits have been protected and are still free and roaming

That's not what everyone thinks, including one of the victim's family. I agree the whole thing stinks, but then I live in Thailand. Globally it's of marginal interest because the victims were young and good looking (and white) and their deaths were unspeakably savage. But it's not the international crime of the century.

[asiamaster]

Name one!

Name one civilized country, where this happens and goes unpunished, if it comes to the light!

"All they said"..."punched and that a plastic bag was put over their head"?

ALL?

For the love of God, man...stop talking out of your anus!

You know, what a plastic bag over your head does, right?!

Now imagine, you are in a 'safe house" with some dudes, who want to pin a murder on you!

You are loathsome!

Heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Yes that was all that was said. Have you read otherwise? If so provide me with a link.

Yes a plastic bag over your head if tight enough can suffocate. But was that said by the defendants?

Oh I can very well imagine what it is like to be threatened as I have been in quite a similar situation before during an armed robbery.

[taony]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

I don't want to follow him - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

I don't want to follow you - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

[JLCrab]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

< snip >

In the NY Times article originating from the NYT's Bangkok Bureau it states:

In a statement outlining the reasons for its verdict, the court said that “physical evidence at the crime scene as well as circumstantial evidence before and after the incident” established the defendants’ guilt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html

Maybe the combination of the physical evidence and the circumstantial evidence including the Judge's assessment of the defendant's alibi that night was enough for the Miller family's 'overwhelming' evaluation and not from access to non-public material.

[MorristheRunt]

No one was ever said this was the crime of the century, people get murdered period.

Young, old, beautiful, white, black whatever people get killed and rapped.

But in most civilized nations the appropriate law enforcement agencies would lead a thorough and professional investigation to find the culprits. And on an island the size of Koh Tao, that should have not been difficult.

When the Prime ministers, chief of police get involved in a case like this, you can be sure this was no normal murder.

Something very sinister has gone down and 4 innocent lives have been destroyed.

[joy16]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

[JLCrab]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

I don't want to follow him - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

I don't want to follow you - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

I think it is fine to post Mr. Hall's Twitter comments on here as many are not Twitter members or know how to use it. However, with a little effort, Mr. Halls Twitter comments can be posted like this:

Andy Hall 2 hours ago

Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo have access to TV in their cell so encouraged by seeing protests underway in support of overturning their convictions.

[taony]

of course its fine.

[MorristheRunt]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

< snip >

In the NY Times article originating from the NYT's Bangkok Bureau it states:

In a statement outlining the reasons for its verdict, the court said that “physical evidence at the crime scene as well as circumstantial evidence before and after the incident” established the defendants’ guilt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html

Maybe the combination of the physical evidence and the circumstantial evidence including the Judge's assessment of the defendant's alibi that night was enough for the Miller family's 'overwhelming' evaluation and not from access to non-public material.

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

[MorristheRunt]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

[asiamaster]

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

Yo don't seem to know much about modern day journalism do you?

[catsanddogs]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Despite all this, Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo relaxed and said both staff in prison and all prisoners nice to them/provided them a lot of encouragement

I don't want to follow him - can you kindly refrain from clogging the topic up with this nonsense!!

That's so funny! I can hear you stamping your feet from my house. Keep up the good work SE.

[JLCrab]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

< snip >

In the NY Times article originating from the NYT's Bangkok Bureau it states:

In a statement outlining the reasons for its verdict, the court said that “physical evidence at the crime scene as well as circumstantial evidence before and after the incident” established the defendants’ guilt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html

Maybe the combination of the physical evidence and the circumstantial evidence including the Judge's assessment of the defendant's alibi that night was enough for the Miller family's 'overwhelming' evaluation and not from access to non-public material.

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

Yes -- Mr. Head's BBC article also noted:

By Jonathan Head, BBC South East Asia correspondent

I have asked one of the defence lawyers about their bafflingly non-adversarial tactics. He did not offer a convincing explanation.

Maybe they should get him to run the appeal so it would be more adversarial. Heard mentality, maybe.

Edited December 28, 2015 by JLCrab

[jing jing]

To the 15 months incognito guy: My apologies -- didn't recognize you. Must be the new haircut.

To the spooky stalker guy: Perhaps he just now got fed up seeing the tripe you regularly attempt passing off as pithy responses or sage little nuggets of wisdom, and finally decided to respond. Up to him.

Frankly, he wouldn't be the only one.

Pity -- I mean pithy.

Douche -- I mean touche.

This ain't your show.

My apologies - please, carry on.

[catsanddogs]

here's another interesting thought

lets assume that this was a stitch up and all those involved were paid either to take part or keep their mouths shut -

if anyone - who is most likely to spill the beans and tell all

My money would be on the roti seller, very likely he has family in Myanmar and would like to return there at some point, he is likely not welcome at the moment, he likely has been handsomely paid or I am giving him to much credit and in fact knows absolutly nothing.

anyway if indeed he was a part of the suspected stitch up and was aware of certain things that might be highly incriminating my money would be on him to spill the beans especially if he wanted to return home

Is he still selling roti's ? is he still on Koh Tao, is he still in Thailand ? is he still alive ? lol

I'm sure Maung Maung knows the truth too. Where is he? Is he alive?

[bunglebag]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

Yes this is why I don't go on much about him myself. Unless something better comes forward to link him to the island that weekend it feels a bit futile.

BUT his name did come up straight away as the prime suspect - morning one of day one - initially from various people, and then later from the police themselves, and the left arm of the night-time runner is uncannily similar - but something more concrete is needed there. Also, the mention of an argument with locals in ac bar came up on day one.

On a separate note I've heard there was talk on Sairee that morning of what had happened, but details of this 'talk' have not been forthcoming unfortunately due to fear of safety (which says a lot in itself because who would be scared of the B2).

I am suprised that no-one from Koh Tao has taken a holiday somewhere safe, registered a new user on TV and then unloaded (or arranged to have someone else unload later) all the rumour or even fact that they know or have heard though.

Until something more concrete comes up re head boy I'm looking more at folk we know were on the island, particularly the bar 'muscle' - hoe posing chubster and Shark/stingray chubster and their motley crew. Sean said look at who didn't turn up for work the next day - I remember reading that the shark/stingray guy disappeared for a couple for weeks after the crimes - is that right? and he has form for attempted rape

BUT (genuine question, not rhetorical) would they get protected to this degree without someone from the family also being involved? Mon's been in the thick of it since the start, but in what capacity - orchestrator, or cleaner upper / running interference? Or could it be because it was said by an important person that 'No Thai could do this' and that now has to be the case whatever the cost? What a ridiculous thing to say! Every nationality has complete animals within them, certainly no shortage in Thailand.

Edited December 28, 2015 by bunglebag

[MorristheRunt]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

< snip >

In the NY Times article originating from the NYT's Bangkok Bureau it states:

In a statement outlining the reasons for its verdict, the court said that “physical evidence at the crime scene as well as circumstantial evidence before and after the incident” established the defendants’ guilt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/asia/thailand-koh-tao-murder.html

Maybe the combination of the physical evidence and the circumstantial evidence including the Judge's assessment of the defendant's alibi that night was enough for the Miller family's 'overwhelming' evaluation and not from access to non-public material.

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

Yes -- Mr. Head's BBC article also noted:

By Jonathan Head, BBC South East Asia correspondent

I have asked one of the defence lawyers about their bafflingly non-adversarial tactics. He did not offer a convincing explanation.

Maybe they should get him to run the appeal so it would be more adversarial. Heard mentality, maybe.

[MorristheRunt]

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

Yo don't seem to know much about modern day journalism do you?

High season, should you not be busy?

[bunglebag]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

[MorristheRunt]

Is Shark tooth and big ears still on the scene, of have they "left" not to be seen again?

[catsanddogs]

A key element of the prosecution centred upon the discovery of a mobile phone and sunglasses near to where Phyo was staying,

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_trial_special_report_the_judges_ruling_revealed_and_uk_campaigner_explains_why_he_s_backing_the_accused_1_4360538

[TheCruncher]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

[catsanddogs]

They were both given 20 year jail terms for the rape of Miss Witheridge and both sentenced to death twice over for the murders of both victims - one for the killings and one for trying to conceal them.

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/norfolk_family_describe_whirlwind_of_emotions_as_men_found_guilty_of_murdering_hemsby_s_hannah_witheridge_and_fellow_backpacker_david_miller_in_thailand_1_4358731

[asiamaster]

Well the BBC coverage by Jonathon Herd was damming to say the least.

To say what he did I would suggest the BBC and Mr Heard must be pretty certain something is very wrong in relation to the verdict. Especially after the statement by the Miller family.

Yo don't seem to know much about modern day journalism do you?

High season, should you not be busy?

How so? I'm retired and I'm busy when I want to.

[MorristheRunt]

ok Claude

[bunglebag]

There were the pictures from CCTV shown that the interested one was in his dormitory in Bangkok that night.

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

Edited December 28, 2015 by bunglebag

[Bluespunk]

Amnesty International have called for an independent investigation into the trial (good luck with that!) and the UK newspapers have also highlighted in their reports that Thailand is known to use torture to extract confessions from the innocent. None of this will make any difference to the Thai authorities. Even my Thai wife is disgusted!

The courts ignored the confessions made by the B2 so an enquiry into that is irrelevant- if you want to know who the experts at torture are can I just say Guantanamo Bay and water boarding, plus stripping people naked and photographing them lying together on top of each other in piles (I won't tell you what this reminded me of as it is too grotesque to mention) for the amusement of the guards!!! I believe they also put bags over their heads and cocked a gun plus an assortment of other abuses. How does what they SUPPOSEDLY did compare to this?

They weren't tortured, it's standard practice for those in custody to claim this and standard practice for these human rights people to encourage them to proclaim that it happened. Did anyone notice that has soon as the HR jumped in they retracted their confessions and not before, a coincidence? I don't think so!!

I don't even know why I have brought this up actually, as it played no part in the trial.

If I was innocent they would have had to beat me up beyond recognition to make a confession...

Ooh, well 'ard...

[taony]

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/u/14756758?tk=3w9kjluF-06ffxmV7RZgWHJrE2uwT_rpRPxqBAF8fxw&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email

[TheCruncher]

That morning I believe but I stand to be corrected.

yes stills showing him walking out of his residence the next morning at 9.15/30 (I forget which). This did not eliminate the possibility of him travelling back to Bangkok earlier that morning though which was logistically possible. Apparently there was also film of the apartment block showing he did not enter it that morning (via the front door anyway) but that was only shown to selected media organisations if I understood it correctly - which seems a bit odd. There was also his girlfriend at the time who apparently said she had been unable to contact him over the weekend.

How do they make a video of someone NOT entering? I guess they also have video then from me not entering that building.

Also strange that if he has been walking around the whole weekend on that very small island, that there is not a single picture or CCTV screen shot of him.

leaving but not entering, thus implying he was inside for a significant amount of time, but yes where is the footage of him actually entering the time before the footage of him leaving. good point

and yes TheCuncher, if there is no footage of you not entering and not leaving then are you still in there!?

It seems that you have bit of a problem to figure this out correctly, so I will lend you a helping hand.

If there IS a video of him NOT entering the building on a particular morning, as you wrote in your post, but there is a video of him exiting the building that particular morning, then there is a big chance that he entered earlier.

And no, if there is no footage of me not entering and not leaving then I'm not still in there, it means I've never been there.

Any further problems with understanding simple events, feel free to send me a PM.

[catsanddogs]

Friends of Hannah and David must also be happy with the guilty verdict then. Those friends that would have excitedly discussed and planned their trips many months before September '14. The females came back minus their friend whose head had been smashed in. Not an everyday occurrence. Press reports stated 'friends said Hannah and David left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. No names in the press of who these friends were. For all we know the friends that made that statement may be non existent. Surely one friend would own up to stating that? Not exactly anything to be afraid of is it? There is a reason why we have heard nothing in the press regards any of the 'friends'. Not one of them have come forward to dispel the rumours that there was an altercation at the AC bar. Not one of them have come forward and said who was the last to see Hannah or David alive. Absolutely incredible and unbelievable! No statements requested by prosecution or defence in court from any of them? Why not? Last movements of the deceased etc etc. RTP said they took statements from the friends - were these read in court? And no CCTV from the AC bar only footage showing David entering the bar at the front. Pure speculation on the part of the police that Hannah and David left by the back door. Where are the bloody witnesses!!! Who saw what and why aren't you speaking up? Likely that drugs of some sort played a part in all this. Did all the friends simply stroll home to go to bed with no concern for their missing friends or where they up, wide awake, maybe off some of their faces and witnessed something they dare not speak of? I can only surmise that their attitude is two little Burmese nothings being sentenced to death is something they can easily live and is meaningless in comparison with losing their 'friends'.