Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[IslandLover]

catsanddogs, on 28 Dec 2015 - 13:41, said:catsanddogs, on 28 Dec 2015 - 13:41, said:catsanddogs, on 28 Dec 2015 - 13:41, said:

Friends of Hannah and David must also be happy with the guilty verdict then. Those friends that would have excitedly discussed and planned their trips many months before September '14. The females came back minus their friend whose head had been smashed in. Not an everyday occurrence. Press reports stated 'friends said Hannah and David left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. No names in the press of who these friends were. For all we know the friends that made that statement may be non existent. Surely one friend would own up to stating that? Not exactly anything to be afraid of is it? There is a reason why we have heard nothing in the press regards any of the 'friends'. Not one of them have come forward to dispel the rumours that there was an altercation at the AC bar. Not one of them have come forward and said who was the last to see Hannah or David alive. Absolutely incredible and unbelievable! No statements requested by prosecution or defence in court from any of them? Why not? Last movements of the deceased etc etc. RTP said they took statements from the friends - were these read in court? And no CCTV from the AC bar only footage showing David entering the bar at the front. Pure speculation on the part of the police that Hannah and David left by the back door. Where are the bloody witnesses!!! Who saw what and why aren't you speaking up? Likely that drugs of some sort played a part in all this. Did all the friends simply stroll home to go to bed with no concern for their missing friends or where they up, wide awake, maybe off some of their faces and witnessed something they dare not speak of? I can only surmise that their attitude is two little Burmese nothings being sentenced to death is something they can easily live and is meaningless in comparison with losing their 'friends'.

There is no back door at the AC bar. The bar is completely open on the beach side with a terrace and steps down to the beach. On the night in question there would have been dozens of people down on the beach as well as the fire dancers as a party was going on to celebrate the end of the football tournament.

Edited December 28, 2015 by IslandLover

[HUH]

They were working pro bono, including the advisers and experts such as Jane Taupin, if you want to find out where the funds were distributed then head to the funding page and look at the accounts, not hard really, or you can make up rumours...up to you

You can check them they don't make much sense though, the are not even up to afghanistan standards let alone international.

So sorry the accounts fail to meet your exacting international standards, its a real shame the DNA testing and evidence presentation also in the opinion of many that were at the trial failed the same test miserably.

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

The judge accepting the DNA collection and evidence presentation as up to International Standards is as I understand one of the major reasons that there is going to be a credible appeal. I know you'd like to further speculate on that aspect but I'm not really into repeating whats already been very well outlined in credible outlets that are in the public domain any more than necessary as its been written by people with more knowledge than me on this case. But you can head back to the start of this or any other recent thread if you want to go over old ground again.

[MorristheRunt]

Another point, is a transcript of the trial going to be released.

It would be in the courts interest to do so, would end a lot of speculation and rumour.

If the conviction is fair, there is nothing to hide!

Edited December 28, 2015 by MorristheRunt

[MorristheRunt]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

Edited December 28, 2015 by MorristheRunt

[fab99]

You can check them they don't make much sense though, the are not even up to afghanistan standards let alone international.

So sorry the accounts fail to meet your exacting international standards, its a real shame the DNA testing and evidence presentation also in the opinion of many that were at the trial failed the same test miserably.

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

BECAUSE there was and there still is no way to know if the DNA is reliable, the chain of custody is what makes a test reliable, and I don't know if you ve heard, but the documents regarding the chain of custody are incomplete and have been modified by hand.

Why test a DNA that is possibly not even the DNA found on the victim (if there actually was any DNA found..)?

Plus the original samples are "used up" and all that is left is something whose origin (blood, hair, semen) can't be determined, so it could very well come from of the B2's hair taken after they were arrested for example.

In most courts, this evidence would have been dismissed because of the lack of proper documentation.

As the DNA is the only element taken into account to declare the B2 guilty and send them to their death, the defense will completely focus on that for the appeal and hopefully highlight how unreliable these results are.

Plus as was said, the DNA proves intercourse anyway, they failed to prove the murder without reasonable doubt.

Do you really believe these two short boys could kill two persons like that David being far stronger than them ?

And the element of surprise isn't even there as the victims DNA were on the hoe (not their blood, it actually was said they handled the hoe, and the B2's DNA wasn't on the hoe, but there was a third DNA, why the hell isn't the third DNA investigated?).

The appeal will be interesting, I really dont think the story will go away quietly, it has generated too much interest and too many questions are unanswered.

[MorristheRunt]

The British coroners inquest could prove to be interesting.

[SiSePuede419]

"The penalties for perjury by the way are also pretty high I guess."

Are you aware of the difference between lying and perjury?

In America, cops get away with lying under oath every day of the year. There is no penalty.

Doubtful in Thailand that a cop telling an outright lie under oath could ever be prosecuted, even if you could prove they INTENTIONALLY lied (perjury).

TiT, 555

[HUH]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

Thats a good point. They were officially charged with stealing Davids Sunglasses, but in court, according to Mr Hall, the sunglasses were never presented or even discussed. Very strange?

[asiamaster]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

They are both mentioned in the court judgement. The second defendant was sentenced to 1 year 6 months for theft at night and was ordered to reimburse 16.000 Baht to the descendants of the first victim.

[HUH]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

They are both mentioned in the court judgement. The second defendant was sentenced to 1 year 6 months for theft at night and was ordered to reimburse 16.000 Baht to the descendants of the first victi

That was for the phone, the sunglasses were never presented

This is the official English version of the sunglasses statement by the court

Edited December 28, 2015 by HUH

[MorristheRunt]

Was this the phone found by the victims body, or the phone havded to the police by David's friend the morning after the event?

[SiSePuede419]

"While that may be possible, highly unlikely. Anyone with a UK SIM knows it costs..."

Incorrect. Facebook Messenger allows FREE phone calls. If the phone is connected to WiFi.

Many other apps, such as Line also have FREE video phone calls.

Again, requires only WiFi.

[asiamaster]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

Edited December 28, 2015 by asiamaster

[B166ER]

....this case is far from over. In fact it's going to become stuff of legends....you naysayers are going to have to accept it. This case has opened up Pandora's box. The spirits of the two will not rest till the one's who split their blood are sucked back into that box to anguish for eternity....a pox on all of you who condemn the righteous and pander to evil....

[MorristheRunt]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

So one of the Burmeese stole the phone and the next day tried to sell it at a local shop on Koh Tao?

He is either an idiot or that's the worst story telling I have ever heard.

Do we know who this "witness" is?

[asiamaster]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

So one of the Burmeese stole the phone and the next day tried to sell it at a local shop on Koh Tao?

He is either an idiot or that's the worst story telling I have ever heard.

Do we know who this "witness" is?

the first witness was a roommate the second witness a cellmate

[MorristheRunt]

I would imagine that this "cell mate" is now a free and wealthier man!

I am sorry but the phone story just sums up this whole case....farsical.

The more I hear about the trial the more convincing the argument that we are witnessing one of the most blatant and shameful set ups in recent living memory.

[asiamaster]

Was this the phone found by the victims body, or the phone havded to the police by David's friend the morning after the event?

No this was David's black iphone 4 which was found in the garden of the apartment where the B2 were staying.

The phone handed over by David's friend was his old Samsung with the Thai sms card.

It has been discussed fully earlier in this thread.

[asiamaster]

I would imagine that this "cell mate" is now a free and wealthier man!

I am sorry but the phone story just sums up this whole case....farsical.

The more I hear about the trial the more convincing the argument that we are witnessing one of the most blatant and shameful set ups in recent living memory.

The cell mate was indeed released early December as he had finished his sentence.

[MorristheRunt]

I would imagine that this "cell mate" is now a free and wealthier man!

I am sorry but the phone story just sums up this whole case....farsical.

The more I hear about the trial the more convincing the argument that we are witnessing one of the most blatant and shameful set ups in recent living memory.

The cell mate was indeed released early December as he had finished his sentence.

What a surprise, and the other witness the room mate...was this the guy who was arrested at the same time as the 2 accused? The same guy who said the 2 accused were tucked up in bed and looking very normal in the hours after the murders?

[asiamaster]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

They are both mentioned in the court judgement. The second defendant was sentenced to 1 year 6 months for theft at night and was ordered to reimburse 16.000 Baht to the descendants of the first victi

That was for the phone, the sunglasses were never presented

This is the official English version of the sunglasses statement by the court

The sunglasses could not be presented as evidence in court because the prosecutors could not prove they were David's. With the phone they could as they had received confirmation of the IMEI code from the Miller family through the Thai embassy in the UK (this after the found out that UK officials were not permitted to do so as it would be presenting evidence which could lead to a death sentence.

[asiamaster]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

They are both mentioned in the court judgement. The second defendant was sentenced to 1 year 6 months for theft at night and was ordered to reimburse 16.000 Baht to the descendants of the first victi

That was for the phone, the sunglasses were never presented

This is the official English version of the sunglasses statement by the court

was the leaving out of the parts mentioning witnesses in your thumbnail perchance deliberate???

[SiSePuede419]

"No this was David's black iphone 4 which was found in the garden of the apartment where the B2 were staying."

Was either of the B2 fingerprints or DNA found on the phone?

If not, then it was probably "planted" there to make them "look guilty".

Cops in Oklahoma used to do the same thing. If they pulled over somebody for " suspicion" of having drugs and no drugs were found, they would "find" some in their car.

555

[SiSePuede419]

"No this was David's black iphone 4 which was found in the garden of the apartment where the B2 were staying."

Was either of the B2 fingerprints or DNA found on the phone?

If not, then it was probably "planted" there to make them "look guilty".

Cops in Oklahoma used to do the same thing. If they pulled over somebody for "suspicion" of having drugs and no drugs were found, they would "find" some in their car.

555

[asiamaster]

"No this was David's black iphone 4 which was found in the garden of the apartment where the B2 were staying."

Was either of the B2 fingerprints or DNA found on the phone?

If not, then it was probably "planted" there to make them "look guilty".

Cops in Oklahoma used to do the same thing. If they pulled over somebody for "suspicion" of having drugs and no drugs were found, they would "find" some in their car.

555

Why did the defendants change their original confession of stealing it from the victims to finding it on the beach when they went to look for their clothes? and as such admitting that they did have the phone?

[catsanddogs]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

Thats a good point. They were officially charged with stealing Davids Sunglasses, but in court, according to Mr Hall, the sunglasses were never presented or even discussed. Very strange?

A key element of the prosecution centred upon the discovery of a mobile phone and sunglasses near to where Phyo was staying,

Mr Hall said: “He couldn’t sleep, because when they were in the sea someone had taken his guitar so he went back out and it was then he found the phone.

“He took it back home, couldn’t unlock it and then the next day a friend said it could be linked to the murder, so they smashed it up. The prosecution said they took it from David’s trousers. But if he took the phone from David, where are the fingerprints? There were absolutely no fingerprints at the scene.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_trial_special_report_the_judges_ruling_revealed_and_uk_campaigner_explains_why_he_s_backing_the_accused_1_4360538

A KEY ELEMENT OF THE PROSECUTION CENTRED UPON THE DISCOVERY OF MOBILE PHONE AND A PAIR SUNGLASSES.

Lets be hearing about it then. Who could be privy to the details of this KEY ELEMENT that no-one else has heard anything about? Were they the glasses that police testified David purchased down an alley around 2 in the morning or were they another pair? Were the glasses bought to court? Another fishy stink to add to the gone off stew.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Friends of Hannah and David must also be happy with the guilty verdict then. Those friends that would have excitedly discussed and planned their trips many months before September '14. The females came back minus their friend whose head had been smashed in. Not an everyday occurrence. Press reports stated 'friends said Hannah and David left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. No names in the press of who these friends were. For all we know the friends that made that statement may be non existent. Surely one friend would own up to stating that? Not exactly anything to be afraid of is it? There is a reason why we have heard nothing in the press regards any of the 'friends'. Not one of them have come forward to dispel the rumours that there was an altercation at the AC bar. Not one of them have come forward and said who was the last to see Hannah or David alive. Absolutely incredible and unbelievable! No statements requested by prosecution or defence in court from any of them? Why not? Last movements of the deceased etc etc. RTP said they took statements from the friends - were these read in court? And no CCTV from the AC bar only footage showing David entering the bar at the front. Pure speculation on the part of the police that Hannah and David left by the back door. Where are the bloody witnesses!!! Who saw what and why aren't you speaking up? Likely that drugs of some sort played a part in all this. Did all the friends simply stroll home to go to bed with no concern for their missing friends or where they up, wide awake, maybe off some of their faces and witnessed something they dare not speak of? I can only surmise that their attitude is two little Burmese nothings being sentenced to death is something they can easily live and is meaningless in comparison with losing their 'friends'.

Excellent post, catsanddogs.

Is there any prof they left the AC bar at all?

[catsanddogs]

I would imagine that this "cell mate" is now a free and wealthier man!

I am sorry but the phone story just sums up this whole case....farsical.

The more I hear about the trial the more convincing the argument that we are witnessing one of the most blatant and shameful set ups in recent living memory.

Phoney story would be more fitting.

[DiscoDan]

Initially I too, thought the bar owners must be implicated but in over one year not a single piece of evidence has come to light linking the bar owners and associates to the crime. That is, evidence that would stand up in court when presented by defence lawyers.

I could easily make up my own rumours. That Mon, the sharkman or any from that gang committed this crime then they would have got rid of the evidence. The bodies would have been taken out on a boat, weighted with stones and dumped overboard.

They would not have left the bodies to be discovered in their own resort. That would have been ruinous for business.

But there is no cctv or witnesses that prove the gang was out at the time of the murders.

The only cctv evidence shows the b2 buying alchohol sometime before the murders and one or two skinny kids running around in a panic after the murders.

Why did the defence team put up such a poor show? Because they knew the two Burmese were guilty.

Because they were paid off handsomely.

I would recommend you to advise Andy Hall about this immediately!

well some of them are Andy Halls legal team,

Nakhon Chompuchat - Lawyer, Head of Andy Hall's legal team

https://fccthai.com/items/1466.html

This is dated a week before the murder he has been using them for his defamation court cases I believe he has a fund for these cases as well.

as they say a fool and there money are soon departed.

Edited December 28, 2015 by DiscoDan

[IslandLover]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

They are both mentioned in the court judgement. The second defendant was sentenced to 1 year 6 months for theft at night and was ordered to reimburse 16.000 Baht to the descendants of the first victim.

That was for David Miller's phone.