Koh Tao: Suspects found guilty of murdering British backpackers

[AleG]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

"How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out....."

How else could they perpetuate the narrative that there is no evidence against the two men?

[taony]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

"How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out....."

How else could they perpetuate the narrative that there is no evidence against the two men?

I was going to say you need to go back and read the posts again bc you misunderstood. Then i noticed the username. One of your 40 aliases. Stop stirring trouble.

[JLCrab]

If you want to overwrite everything, YOU NEED TO MAKE IT BIGGER

The Criminal Procedure Code (Thailand) Section 193. An appeal on questions of fact and questions of law shall lie to the Appeal Court against any judgement or order of a Court of First Instance, except where such appeal is prohibited by this Code or other laws.

Every appeal must set forth in order a summary of facts or the points of law relied upon

The Criminal Procedure Code (Thailand) Section 198. The Appeal shall be filed with the Court of First Instance within one month from the date of judgement or order has been read or has been regarded as having been read to the party lodging the Appeal.

However, just to note that criminal procedures in Thailand are governed by the Criminal Procedure Code B.E.2477(1934) and will not likely change any time soon social media or not.

Edited December 29, 2015 by seedy
font

[HUH]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

"How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out....."

How else could they perpetuate the narrative that there is no evidence against the two men?

For those that want to read the full statements you know where to go, its online in the public domain, my response was in direct relation to the fact that the sunglasses were not produced as evidence, simple really but does not fit your particular insinuations, no surprise there then.

[AleG]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

"How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out....."

How else could they perpetuate the narrative that there is no evidence against the two men?

I was going to say you need to go back and read the posts again bc you misunderstood. Then i noticed the username. One of your 40 aliases. Stop stirring trouble.

Let me guess, you are outraged about the Koh Tao case because you think those men are the victims of false accusations. Right?

I have only had one account in Thaivisa since joining up.

[StealthEnergiser]

Was the finding of the sunglasses and phone near the accused home, ever discussed in court?

And if the DNA evidence was not permitted in the court, would the Burmese have walked?

For the offense of theft at night charged to the second defendant, the prosecutor had a witness, who confirmed that the second defendant brought the exhibited mobile phone to the witness after the incident, claiming that the phone was forgotten by a foreigner at a shop. Moreover there is a witness who testified that the the second defendant confessed in the interrogation stage that he took the mobile phone and sunglasses of the first victim after he caused harm and raped the second victim.

PS I just see that Huh posted this already - albeit missing the first part and also the fist part of the second sentence also mentioning a witness (which incidentally was the cellmate of the B2).

How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out.....

"How convenient to leave the part where witnesses are mentioned out....."

How else could they perpetuate the narrative that there is no evidence against the two men?

I was going to say you need to go back and read the posts again bc you misunderstood. Then i noticed the username. One of your 40 aliases. Stop stirring trouble.

Let me guess, you are outraged about the Koh Tao case because you think those men are the victims of false accusations. Right?

I have only had one account in Thaivisa since joining up.

Joining up to who ?

[Darkknight666]

Whoever left that gruesome scene on Sairee beach KNEW someone would be along to clean it all up and make it go away. Hannah was left the way she was to humiliate her. Why? I still think of the motivation it takes to harm someone in that way, The killers had some things like this before, maybe not anything this terrible. How were they to know this would be a major case?

Wonder if the speedboat driver has ever been spoken to again after the whole cave incident?

[seedy]

One Post Hidden

there have been MANY Warnings made to not discuss the political climate. Choose to ignore them, receive a posting holiday.

[phuketandsee]

The British government and Cameron in particular should be ashamed of themselves. What happened to the policy of not getting involved in death penalty cases? UK cops conducting interviews with witnesses in the UK and passing that information to the Thai cops... The FCO releasing statements on behalf of the families endorsing the Thai investigation and declaring confidence in the guilt of the accused... Refusing to allow the defense access to the Met Police report...

And here we are with a guilty verdict and the death sentence handed down... Does it get any more contradictory than this? Well, maybe if you add that, according to The Guardian,: "This financial year, 2015-16, the Foreign Office is spending £600,000 on anti-death penalty projects."

This has blown up as bad as it is possible to blow up and heads should roll.

On top of this the FCO refrains from posting news of British nationals murdered in Thailand in a prominent position on its website for fear of damaging relations with Thailand, and so potentially places British citizens in harm's way.

Could this all be to say thank you to the Thai govt for not shouting and screaming at the UK govt about those bomb detectors a few years back, and instead letting some locals take the rap for them? It struck me that the UK govt got off very lightly considering that the FCO (FO at that time) were happily sending out letters of introduction and recommendation for the company selling these bomb detectors whilst uniformed members of the Royal Engineers were attending arms fairs giving demonstrations of the detectors. Put those two together and you've got yourself quite some sales pitch right there. Quite unbelievable...

The British cops were sent to Thailand at the UK taxpayer's expense, and it seems like that if anything that trip facilitated the guilty verdict and subsequent death penalty, or at least did absolutely nothing to prevent it, nor to finding out the truth as to what happened that night. And all the while government officials are speaking of the need for transparency... Personally I am disgusted that my taxes are being spent in such a fashion.

I wouldn't be surprised if the British Government's actions here weren't influenced by assistance they received in their extraordinary rendition and black sites program. Some very dirty little secrets they, and the US, would like to keep buried.

[asiamaster]

Heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Yes that was all that was said. Have you read otherwise? If so provide me with a link.

Yes a plastic bag over your head if tight enough can suffocate. But was that said by the defendants?

Oh I can very well imagine what it is like to be threatened as I have been in quite a similar situation before during an armed robbery.

Oh boy...you are really are something!

1) we are talking about POLICE, aren't we?

Guantanamo Bay is a military base and what happens there has nothing to do, with "police" in "civilized countries" getting confessions out of suspects, by torture on a daily basis!

And mind you: what ever goes on there, was part of a congressional investigation, which findings were widely condemned by "civilized nations" the world over and even in the US!

So- again- NAME ONE!

2) If I were to believe your little folksy story about the "armed robbery" (which I do not! Not for a second!)- how is that anywhere near being tortured?

The fact, that you put your "knife to the throat"- story on par with "torture", shows, that you are talking out of the lower end of your digestive system!

You might take a look at your (inadequate) Guantanamo- example: waterboarding, sleep deprevation, anal feeding, beatings etc.!

On what planet is that the same as "being threatened"

That is like saying "I know, how it is to get a bullet to your stomache! I once was in a car accident and broke my arm!"

But here is the thing: please prove, that you were in that "threatening" situation.

Within the next 5 days, send me a) a copy of your passport or ID, b ) another picture of yourself (no head- wear, sunglasses...) and c) a newspaper clip, that links you to an "armed robbery"! ( I am sure you or your mommy have such a clip, as you were in that traumatizing situation)!

So...prove it!

No pressure!

You have time!

No one is beating you, no one is trying to suffocate you and if you choose not to prove it, you will not loose your health, life or sanity (...oh...well...)!

You are a comical genius!

Thanks for the compliment.

Lucky to have survived (how is a long story). Police report of stolen items and doctors report of sustained knife cuts and bruises) were made and sent to insurance. We decided to leave it at that.

The assailants were Thai migrant workers in Malaysia (did not understand my Malay and had typical Thai tattoos on their shirtless bodies).

I was in no way comparing this to torture, just comparing it to what the B2 claimed was done to them ( a bit of punching and a plastic bag over their heads) and saying they were pussies if that would be enough to make them confess to a crime they would not have committed.

Speaking of migrant workers: Do you have any idea of the violence that goes on in these worker camps? The drug and alcohol abuse? Do you have any idea of what goes through the minds of these people? Are you aware that most burglaries (yes also here in Thailand I have a personal experience) involve migrants?

Are you aware that this year alone there are 126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people? (yes I know what you are going to say.... all scapegoats).

And guess what? Although I am quite convinced that the B2 are guilty I do not blame them as I do understand their desperation....

[phuketandsee]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused and the police said they did not even test the alleged weapon for fingerprints and DNA

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

Edited December 29, 2015 by phuketandsee

[asiamaster]

I know exactly what thoughts they went away with but there is no way they could go public with that, they came - they looked - the Thai police told them what they had - then they went home

Are you a mind reader?

[lucky11]

One of the statements read outside the court by the victims family was damming towards the two Burmese.

Has the family has received information outside that presented in the court?

If so, surely it would be in the interests of the Thai authorities to make that information public, so as to cease speculation about the verdict once and for all.

In my opinion the Burmese did not do it, BUT if evidence was presented that proved they did without reasonable doubt then I am more and happy to say I was wrong.

One thing that has worried me about there innocence is the lack of any evidence to show that one person of particular "interest" was on the Island of Koh Tao on the fateful night. In the age of smart phones, I simply can't believe a photo or video has never been seen to prove "he" was or maybe was not on the island that night.

Yes this is why I don't go on much about him myself. Unless something better comes forward to link him to the island that weekend it feels a bit futile.

BUT his name did come up straight away as the prime suspect - morning one of day one - initially from various people, and then later from the police themselves, and the left arm of the night-time runner is uncannily similar - but something more concrete is needed there. Also, the mention of an argument with locals in ac bar came up on day one.

On a separate note I've heard there was talk on Sairee that morning of what had happened, but details of this 'talk' have not been forthcoming unfortunately due to fear of safety (which says a lot in itself because who would be scared of the B2).

I am suprised that no-one from Koh Tao has taken a holiday somewhere safe, registered a new user on TV and then unloaded (or arranged to have someone else unload later) all the rumour or even fact that they know or have heard though.

Until something more concrete comes up re head boy I'm looking more at folk we know were on the island, particularly the bar 'muscle' - hoe posing chubster and Shark/stingray chubster and their motley crew. Sean said look at who didn't turn up for work the next day - I remember reading that the shark/stingray guy disappeared for a couple for weeks after the crimes - is that right? and he has form for attempted rape

BUT (genuine question, not rhetorical) would they get protected to this degree without someone from the family also being involved? Mon's been in the thick of it since the start, but in what capacity - orchestrator, or cleaner upper / running interference? Or could it be because it was said by an important person that 'No Thai could do this' and that now has to be the case whatever the cost? What a ridiculous thing to say! Every nationality has complete animals within them, certainly no shortage in Thailand.

"I am suprised that no-one from Koh Tao has taken a holiday somewhere safe, registered a new user on TV and then unloaded (or arranged to have someone else unload later) all the rumour or even fact that they know or have heard though"

Yes, easy enough to do and safe for them and they can clear their conscience - so why I wonder, has no one done this? ................could it be.........?

[lucky11]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused.

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

Based on the conclusive DNA evidence alone, yes, I would have no problems with that. The mobile aspect also reinforces my beliefs that they are unquestionably guilty. Sorry if this is not the answer you like but that is my (conscience free) view!!

[stander]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused and the police said they did not even test the alleged weapon for fingerprints and DNA

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

I had very little knowledge or interest in this case prior to the verdict and sentencing on the 24th, but I have followed with interest here and through links that friends and colleagues have given me.

I am now convinced of their guilt and as a proponent of the death penalty, believe it should be carried out as soon as all avenue of appeal are used up.

[asiamaster]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused.

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

Based on the conclusive DNA evidence alone, yes, I would have no problems with that. The mobile aspect also reinforces my beliefs that they are unquestionably guilty. Sorry if this is not the answer you like but that is my (conscience free) view!!

Adding to that after having observed that a full defense team could not produce any concrete evidence to the contrary: YES !

I would not have voted for a death penalty though. A couple of years prison and deportation after that.

This is what probably will happen after the appeal.

[lucky11]

Heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Yes that was all that was said. Have you read otherwise? If so provide me with a link.

Yes a plastic bag over your head if tight enough can suffocate. But was that said by the defendants?

Oh I can very well imagine what it is like to be threatened as I have been in quite a similar situation before during an armed robbery.

Oh boy...you are really are something!

1) we are talking about POLICE, aren't we?

Guantanamo Bay is a military base and what happens there has nothing to do, with "police" in "civilized countries" getting confessions out of suspects, by torture on a daily basis!

And mind you: what ever goes on there, was part of a congressional investigation, which findings were widely condemned by "civilized nations" the world over and even in the US!

So- again- NAME ONE!

2) If I were to believe your little folksy story about the "armed robbery" (which I do not! Not for a second!)- how is that anywhere near being tortured?

The fact, that you put your "knife to the throat"- story on par with "torture", shows, that you are talking out of the lower end of your digestive system!

You might take a look at your (inadequate) Guantanamo- example: waterboarding, sleep deprevation, anal feeding, beatings etc.!

On what planet is that the same as "being threatened"

That is like saying "I know, how it is to get a bullet to your stomache! I once was in a car accident and broke my arm!"

But here is the thing: please prove, that you were in that "threatening" situation.

Within the next 5 days, send me a) a copy of your passport or ID, b ) another picture of yourself (no head- wear, sunglasses...) and c) a newspaper clip, that links you to an "armed robbery"! ( I am sure you or your mommy have such a clip, as you were in that traumatizing situation)!

So...prove it!

No pressure!

You have time!

No one is beating you, no one is trying to suffocate you and if you choose not to prove it, you will not loose your health, life or sanity (...oh...well...)!

You are a comical genius!

Thanks for the compliment.

Lucky to have survived (how is a long story). Police report of stolen items and doctors report of sustained knife cuts and bruises) were made and sent to insurance. We decided to leave it at that.

The assailants were Thai migrant workers in Malaysia (did not understand my Malay and had typical Thai tattoos on their shirtless bodies).

I was in no way comparing this to torture, just comparing it to what the B2 claimed was done to them ( a bit of punching and a plastic bag over their heads) and saying they were pussies if that would be enough to make them confess to a crime they would not have committed.

Speaking of migrant workers: Do you have any idea of the violence that goes on in these worker camps? The drug and alcohol abuse? Do you have any idea of what goes through the minds of these people? Are you aware that most burglaries (yes also here in Thailand I have a personal experience) involve migrants?

Are you aware that this year alone there are 126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people? (yes I know what you are going to say.... all scapegoats).

And guess what? Although I am quite convinced that the B2 are guilty I do not blame them as I do understand their desperation....

If I was being held by the RTP on a serious charge such as this - and they threatened to tie me up and throw me in the river, or pour gasoline over me and flick a lighter, or put a gun against my head and cock it.....I would simply laugh at them!! I would honestly!! do you think that they could do anything like this?

Think about it, question from the press "where are two suspects now? answer from the police "they self immolated in their cells or bullets came from somewhere and hit them both in the head or they escaped custody, must have tied each other up and fell into the river!!

These are not threats or torture they are their imagination running wild in a desperate attempt to fool gullible people into supporting them. I wouldn't mind betting that Amnesty International or some other human rights organisation told them what to say the RTP did to them. I can just imagine it - the plastic bag over the head with the gun is a good one, it worked marvellously in Guantanamo Bay, it works every time. let's go with that one and the gasoline/lighter one as that's a whizz!!

[happy Joe]

I wouldn't be surprised if the British Government's actions here weren't influenced by assistance they received in their extraordinary rendition and black sites program. Some very dirty little secrets they, and the US, would like to keep buried.

Oh my God ! A global conspiracy ...

[DM07]

Heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Yes that was all that was said. Have you read otherwise? If so provide me with a link.

Yes a plastic bag over your head if tight enough can suffocate. But was that said by the defendants?

Oh I can very well imagine what it is like to be threatened as I have been in quite a similar situation before during an armed robbery.

Oh boy...you are really are something!

1) we are talking about POLICE, aren't we?

Guantanamo Bay is a military base and what happens there has nothing to do, with "police" in "civilized countries" getting confessions out of suspects, by torture on a daily basis!

And mind you: what ever goes on there, was part of a congressional investigation, which findings were widely condemned by "civilized nations" the world over and even in the US!

So- again- NAME ONE!

2) If I were to believe your little folksy story about the "armed robbery" (which I do not! Not for a second!)- how is that anywhere near being tortured?

The fact, that you put your "knife to the throat"- story on par with "torture", shows, that you are talking out of the lower end of your digestive system!

You might take a look at your (inadequate) Guantanamo- example: waterboarding, sleep deprevation, anal feeding, beatings etc.!

On what planet is that the same as "being threatened"

That is like saying "I know, how it is to get a bullet to your stomache! I once was in a car accident and broke my arm!"

But here is the thing: please prove, that you were in that "threatening" situation.

Within the next 5 days, send me a) a copy of your passport or ID, b ) another picture of yourself (no head- wear, sunglasses...) and c) a newspaper clip, that links you to an "armed robbery"! ( I am sure you or your mommy have such a clip, as you were in that traumatizing situation)!

So...prove it!

No pressure!

You have time!

No one is beating you, no one is trying to suffocate you and if you choose not to prove it, you will not loose your health, life or sanity (...oh...well...)!

You are a comical genius!

Thanks for the compliment.

Lucky to have survived (how is a long story). Police report of stolen items and doctors report of sustained knife cuts and bruises) were made and sent to insurance. We decided to leave it at that.

The assailants were Thai migrant workers in Malaysia (did not understand my Malay and had typical Thai tattoos on their shirtless bodies).

I was in no way comparing this to torture, just comparing it to what the B2 claimed was done to them ( a bit of punching and a plastic bag over their heads) and saying they were pussies if that would be enough to make them confess to a crime they would not have committed.

Speaking of migrant workers: Do you have any idea of the violence that goes on in these worker camps? The drug and alcohol abuse? Do you have any idea of what goes through the minds of these people? Are you aware that most burglaries (yes also here in Thailand I have a personal experience) involve migrants?

Are you aware that this year alone there are 126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people? (yes I know what you are going to say.... all scapegoats).

And guess what? Although I am quite convinced that the B2 are guilty I do not blame them as I do understand their desperation....

Yep...soooo, we have to take your word on your cute little story!

Thought so!

...and "yes" you were comparing it to torture and you do it again, since you state to know, what exactly was done to them and calling them pussies...which adds more to my point, of you, being a loathsome "human" being!

About the migrant workers: and?

If these "126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people" were handled as well, as the particular one, we are talking about, you have absolutely no valid point here! And I do believe, they were not all scapegoats- but a decent percentage were.

Heard about the 3 guys, who were accused of killing that girl, a few weeks ago?

Those pesky Burmese workers, who were PROVEN to be somewhere else, at the time of the murder?

And by the way: 126 murder cases, which involve Burmese...compared to HOW MANY involving Thais?

Did Michael Brown got rightfully shot, because some blacks did commit crimes in his neighborhood or elsewhere?

Oh...please don't answer that- I might have to vomit!

What is it, you are trying to prove: because some migrant workers are really bad people, that makes all migrant workers bad people?

I can honestly say: that is racist and childish and ignorant and hypocritical.

And I can also honestly say, I did not expect anything else from you!

[DM07]

Heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Yes that was all that was said. Have you read otherwise? If so provide me with a link.

Yes a plastic bag over your head if tight enough can suffocate. But was that said by the defendants?

Oh I can very well imagine what it is like to be threatened as I have been in quite a similar situation before during an armed robbery.

Oh boy...you are really are something!

1) we are talking about POLICE, aren't we?

Guantanamo Bay is a military base and what happens there has nothing to do, with "police" in "civilized countries" getting confessions out of suspects, by torture on a daily basis!

And mind you: what ever goes on there, was part of a congressional investigation, which findings were widely condemned by "civilized nations" the world over and even in the US!

So- again- NAME ONE!

2) If I were to believe your little folksy story about the "armed robbery" (which I do not! Not for a second!)- how is that anywhere near being tortured?

The fact, that you put your "knife to the throat"- story on par with "torture", shows, that you are talking out of the lower end of your digestive system!

You might take a look at your (inadequate) Guantanamo- example: waterboarding, sleep deprevation, anal feeding, beatings etc.!

On what planet is that the same as "being threatened"

That is like saying "I know, how it is to get a bullet to your stomache! I once was in a car accident and broke my arm!"

But here is the thing: please prove, that you were in that "threatening" situation.

Within the next 5 days, send me a) a copy of your passport or ID, b ) another picture of yourself (no head- wear, sunglasses...) and c) a newspaper clip, that links you to an "armed robbery"! ( I am sure you or your mommy have such a clip, as you were in that traumatizing situation)!

So...prove it!

No pressure!

You have time!

No one is beating you, no one is trying to suffocate you and if you choose not to prove it, you will not loose your health, life or sanity (...oh...well...)!

You are a comical genius!

Thanks for the compliment.

Lucky to have survived (how is a long story). Police report of stolen items and doctors report of sustained knife cuts and bruises) were made and sent to insurance. We decided to leave it at that.

The assailants were Thai migrant workers in Malaysia (did not understand my Malay and had typical Thai tattoos on their shirtless bodies).

I was in no way comparing this to torture, just comparing it to what the B2 claimed was done to them ( a bit of punching and a plastic bag over their heads) and saying they were pussies if that would be enough to make them confess to a crime they would not have committed.

Speaking of migrant workers: Do you have any idea of the violence that goes on in these worker camps? The drug and alcohol abuse? Do you have any idea of what goes through the minds of these people? Are you aware that most burglaries (yes also here in Thailand I have a personal experience) involve migrants?

Are you aware that this year alone there are 126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people? (yes I know what you are going to say.... all scapegoats).

And guess what? Although I am quite convinced that the B2 are guilty I do not blame them as I do understand their desperation....

If I was being held by the RTP on a serious charge such as this - and they threatened to tie me up and throw me in the river, or pour gasoline over me and flick a lighter, or put a gun against my head and cock it.....I would simply laugh at them!! I would honestly!! do you think that they could do anything like this?

Think about it, question from the press "where are two suspects now? answer from the police "they self immolated in their cells or bullets came from somewhere and hit them both in the head or they escaped custody, must have tied each other up and fell into the river!!

These are not threats or torture they are their imagination running wild in a desperate attempt to fool gullible people into supporting them. I wouldn't mind betting that Amnesty International or some other human rights organisation told them what to say the RTP did to them. I can just imagine it - the plastic bag over the head with the gun is a good one, it worked marvellously in Guantanamo Bay, it works every time. let's go with that one and the gasoline/lighter one as that's a whizz!!

Well said from the safety of internet- anonymity and a position behind the keyboard or a bar-stool!

You are such a tough guy!

Mommy must be proud!

Since I guess, that these 2 or their friends had some run-in's with the RTP before (extracting money from them for fake work permits, f.e.), they might have had a more "real" feeling about the danger they were in, when someone threatens to kill them and make them dissapear!

But of course, ex- Navy Seals or Secret Agents like yourself, would have no problems with that!

[lucky11]

I hope their appeal is based on the torture accusations, the unofficial translator and not having a lawyer present when they signed the confession. Why? because the judge said NONE of this was used as evidence in the trial and so their appeal is baseless if that's all they have to offer in refuting the charges. The result, failed appeal, still guilty as charged!!

[AleG]

I wouldn't be surprised if the British Government's actions here weren't influenced by assistance they received in their extraordinary rendition and black sites program. Some very dirty little secrets they, and the US, would like to keep buried.

Oh my God ! A global conspiracy ...

Yup, add MI6 and the CIA to those in it. By tomorrow we may hear about how the Pope must had something to do with it too.

[B166ER]

....my (insert deity here)....some of the rebuttals are jaw dropping, forehead slapping, Homer Simpson Duhing....the only thing that matters is the truth. You all can try hard as you can to deflect it but it won't work. It won't go away. Don't you all notice that the story is just getting bigger and stronger? I'd say every single day the legions grow. That's the "Good" in Humankind. We do like to believe in good over evil. You don't have to be religious at all to know right from wrong. The more this moral path is set upon by "evil doers" the more the Truth comes out. It's so obvious. As I said before.....the Miller's will live to absolutely regret their condemnation speech....

....100% Hannah was left in that position to leave a message. It would have taken two people to lift her up and set her down like that. She was practically leaning back on the rock for Pete's sake. Hardly a defensive position when one is fighting off "would be" rapists as I don't believe that happened either....

[AleG]

I hope their appeal is based on the torture accusations, the unofficial translator and not having a lawyer present when they signed the confession. Why? because the judge said NONE of this was used as evidence in the trial and so their appeal is baseless if that's all they have to offer in refuting the charges. The result, failed appeal, still guilty as charged!!

The funny thing is that during the trial I said just that, that the defense strategy was a non-starter, and of course I got called all sort of things for doing that.

I even went as far as saying what they would have to do to prove the innocence of their clients, show that the initial DNA profiles, the ones available since 3 or 4 days after the murders and used by multiple laboratories to check against suspects were (in theory) different from those of the two Burmese.

That would had blown the whole supposed conspiracy to bits... didn't happen, the obvious conclusion is that there is no such discrepancy in the records; which explains why the didn't want to context the DNA evidence, they know they can't.

As a matter of fact I think the judge made that very point, that the time between the DNA profiles being obtained and the arrest of the suspect proved that they were not tampered with.

They just try to insinuate that it's wrong by vague references to a wrong date or a signature missing here or there but never explaining how, precisely, that invalidates the results, it's like arguing that a passenger plane didn't fly from A to B because the pilot forgot one or more steps during the preflight checklist... while you can see the plane parked at the gate at B's airport.

On top of everything I'm sure that the same people now complaining about the investigation not being absolutely flawless in every aspect were the same people that during the two weeks of the police investigation were crying for results by yesterday or sooner and to be kept informed of every single detail as it emerged.

Step 1, demand that the investigation be rushed, Step 2, complain that the investigation was rushed, Step 3 demand that the case be thrown because of the rushed investigation.

[MorristheRunt]

I must say I am amazed not one person on Koh Tao has shown remorse and has not spoken out (if persons of influence were involved)

Also the present administration has publcly backed the investigation and the subsequent trial verdict, whatever it thinks, the junta has many enimies, strong and influential ones, some based on foreign shores. If a misscaridge of justice has gone down....why the silence...this gives me a doubt about the Burmese inoocence.

Also the defence case in court was nothing short of pathetic. Was this down to shear incompitence or fear?

Edited December 29, 2015 by MorristheRunt

[asiamaster]

Yep...soooo, we have to take your word on your cute little story!

Thought so!

...and "yes" you were comparing it to torture and you do it again, since you state to know, what exactly was done to them and calling them pussies...which adds more to my point, of you, being a loathsome "human" being!

About the migrant workers: and?

If these "126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people" were handled as well, as the particular one, we are talking about, you have absolutely no valid point here! And I do believe, they were not all scapegoats- but a decent percentage were.

Heard about the 3 guys, who were accused of killing that girl, a few weeks ago?

Those pesky Burmese workers, who were PROVEN to be somewhere else, at the time of the murder?

And by the way: 126 murder cases, which involve Burmese...compared to HOW MANY involving Thais?

Did Michael Brown got rightfully shot, because some blacks did commit crimes in his neighborhood or elsewhere?

Oh...please don't answer that- I might have to vomit!

What is it, you are trying to prove: because some migrant workers are really bad people, that makes all migrant workers bad people?

I can honestly say: that is racist and childish and ignorant and hypocritical.

And I can also honestly say, I did not expect anything else from you!

1) if you have not been in similar situation you are not justified to call this a cute little story. And it is just one of many that I have experienced as a 4th generation European living in Asia.

2) Even if if a decent percentage of those 126 were it is still a relatively high number if you compare the migrant population to the Thai population.

3) in no way am I being racist.I am just speaking about human behaviour here - a subject that I studied. The longer I am living here the more understanding I get about why they (even Buddhists). can be so extremely violent. It has nothing to do with race, it's all about the environment they were brought up in and are living in. If Caucasians would be in a similar situation as the migrant workers are they might even be worse....

Oh and if you are interested: I am involved with a lot of migrant worker projects. Strange eh?

[DM07]

"They just try to insinuate that it's wrong by vague references to a wrong date or a signature missing here or there but never explaining how, precisely, that invalidates the results, it's like arguing that a passenger plane didn't fly from A to B because the pilot forgot one or more steps during the preflight checklist... while you can see the plane parked at the gate at B's airport."

Wow!

Just wow!

Excellent comparisson!

a) because you SEE the plain...that is why NO ONE questions it! It is, as you might say, "verifiable evidence"!

b ) we are NOT talking about evidence that is not valid because "a wrong date or a signature missing here and there"...but the chain of custody, that has been broken and the "evidence" DNA is "gone" or "used up" or "I don't know", which makes it NON VERIFIABLE!

I am not even saying, that the RTP actually have tampered with the DNA (although that is what I am saying!), but they COULD have or MIGHT have and since none of it is left and the chain of custody was broken....oh, what the...we have been through this so many times.

[phuketandsee]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused.

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

Based on the conclusive DNA evidence alone, yes, I would have no problems with that. The mobile aspect also reinforces my beliefs that they are unquestionably guilty. Sorry if this is not the answer you like but that is my (conscience free) view!!

As has been said many times the alleged DNA evidence only goes to sexual activity. God help any accused if you are ever on a jury.

Edited December 29, 2015 by phuketandsee

[phuketandsee]

Ok, we almost have enough for a jury so I would like to ask Lucky11, DiscoDan, Greenchair, AleG, Islandlife, Asiamaster, The Cruncher, Stander etc. to look in the mirror and honestly, and I mean honestly, ask yourself this question:

If you were on a jury in your home country (or for some of you, your home planets if they have a jury system) and the only "evidence" you were provided with was what the police alleged - i.e. they provided no concrete, forensically and independently verifiable evidence, would you vote to convict? Well, would you?

Now add to the mix:

1. The police in question were the RTP

2. Absolutely no evidence is provided linking the murder weapon to the accused.

3. No real motive was offered (we all know rape is not a crime of “sexual arousal”).

4. The only “evidence” presented related to rape and not murder.

Please answer honestly – would you vote to convict?

Based on the conclusive DNA evidence alone, yes, I would have no problems with that. The mobile aspect also reinforces my beliefs that they are unquestionably guilty. Sorry if this is not the answer you like but that is my (conscience free) view!!

Adding to that after having observed that a full defense team could not produce any concrete evidence to the contrary: YES !

I would not have voted for a death penalty though. A couple of years prison and deportation after that.

This is what probably will happen after the appeal.

In most civilized societies it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt, not the defense to prove innocence. And in this case the sentence it part and parcel of the verdict so you can't pick and choose

Edited December 29, 2015 by phuketandsee

[DM07]

Yep...soooo, we have to take your word on your cute little story!

Thought so!

...and "yes" you were comparing it to torture and you do it again, since you state to know, what exactly was done to them and calling them pussies...which adds more to my point, of you, being a loathsome "human" being!

About the migrant workers: and?

If these "126 murder cases in Thailand involving Myanmar people" were handled as well, as the particular one, we are talking about, you have absolutely no valid point here! And I do believe, they were not all scapegoats- but a decent percentage were.

Heard about the 3 guys, who were accused of killing that girl, a few weeks ago?

Those pesky Burmese workers, who were PROVEN to be somewhere else, at the time of the murder?

And by the way: 126 murder cases, which involve Burmese...compared to HOW MANY involving Thais?

Did Michael Brown got rightfully shot, because some blacks did commit crimes in his neighborhood or elsewhere?

Oh...please don't answer that- I might have to vomit!

What is it, you are trying to prove: because some migrant workers are really bad people, that makes all migrant workers bad people?

I can honestly say: that is racist and childish and ignorant and hypocritical.

And I can also honestly say, I did not expect anything else from you!

1) if you have not been in similar situation you are not justified to call this a cute little story. And it is just one of many that I have experienced as a 4th generation European living in Asia.

2) Even if if a decent percentage of those 126 were it is still a relatively high number if you compare the migrant population to the Thai population.

3) in no way am I being racist.I am just speaking about human behaviour here - a subject that I studied. The longer I am living here the more understanding I get about why they (even Buddhists). can be so extremely violent. It has nothing to do with race, it's all about the environment they were brought up in and are living in. If Caucasians would be in a similar situation as the migrant workers are they might even be worse....

Oh and if you are interested: I am involved with a lot of migrant worker projects. Strange eh?

Just one of many!

Sure!

Involved in a lot of migrant worker projects!

Yepp!

"I am not a racist, but..."!

Got it!

Studied human behavior!

Still you have learned so little, that you believe the RTP's version of this case!

I could tell you, what you also are, but I like my posting rights!

So ...let's call it a day!