UK Benefits Farce.

[jpinx]

Why the universal credits is taking so long to roll out is amazing,but 2020 is noted for completion day ,just unrolling it piece meal at the moment.

The ghetto structures,cram dozens under one roof are in for a particularly bad time,that one roof ,one address is limited to £23000 inc housing benefit,probably being reduced further,a lot of disquiet will follow, no job? tough

They're probably pacing it carefully to avoid getting slung out at the next election

[GuestHouse]

This depend on you accepting figures that are voluntarily given to the census.

You can fill in the form and enter whatever you like,there is no checking as far as I'm aware of. The same applies to omitting true full information from the form.I am aware of instances where only a few adults where recorded at one address, yet later it became knowledge that there were in fact far more people residing at that property,including people who were claiming benifits.

There is a great deal of checking, both sample checks by direct interview of families who have submitted their forms and checks of census data against other data sources.

As the data provided to the public is anonymised it would be interesting to know how you are aware of the instances you refer to.

[GuestHouse]

Why the universal credits is taking so long to roll out is amazing,but 2020 is noted for completion day ,just unrolling it piece meal at the moment.

The ghetto structures,cram dozens under one roof are in for a particularly bad time,that one roof ,one address is limited to £23000 inc housing benefit,probably being reduced further,a lot of disquiet will follow, no job? tough

They're probably pacing it carefully to avoid getting slung out at the next election

They are indeed pacing it, in part because of the political backlash in parliament (MPs in fear of losing their seats), in part because of public backlash because of genuine cases of hardship being created by reducing welfare, in part because of the substantial number of buy-to-let landlords who's business plan is based upon welfare supporting the rents they charge, and in part because of push back from businesses and public sector employers who, themselves hooked on welfare supporting the low wages they pay, claim they can't afford to pay a living wage.

[huawei]

Why the universal credits is taking so long to roll out is amazing,but 2020 is noted for completion day ,just unrolling it piece meal at the moment.

The ghetto structures,cram dozens under one roof are in for a particularly bad time,that one roof ,one address is limited to £23000 inc housing benefit,probably being reduced further,a lot of disquiet will follow, no job? tough

They're probably pacing it carefully to avoid getting slung out at the next election

They are indeed pacing it, in part because of the political backlash in parliament (MPs in fear of losing their seats), in part because of public backlash because of genuine cases of hardship being created by reducing welfare, in part because of the substantial number of buy-to-let landlords who's business plan is based upon welfare supporting the rents they charge, and in part because of push back from businesses and public sector employers who, themselves hooked on welfare supporting the low wages they pay, claim they can't afford to pay a living wage.

A vicious circle in the way you describe it.

It is ridiculous to be working and getting benefits ( other than the universal benefits).

[nontabury]

This depend on you accepting figures that are voluntarily given to the census.

You can fill in the form and enter whatever you like,there is no checking as far as I'm aware of. The same applies to omitting true full information from the form.I am aware of instances where only a few adults where recorded at one address, yet later it became knowledge that there were in fact far more people residing at that property,including people who were claiming benifits.

There is a great deal of checking, both sample checks by direct interview of families who have submitted their forms and checks of census data against other data sources.

As the data provided to the public is anonymised it would be interesting to know how you are aware of the instances you refer to.

You say there is a great deal of checking, I don't think so,certainly never heard of anyone been checked. This includes my time working in a department dealing with the census.

You are correct,the information is private, however their have been a few instances were this information has become public. Plus some people who are part of this fraud tend to boost.

[GuestHouse]

You say there is a great deal of checking, I don't think so,certainly never heard of anyone been checked. This includes my time working in a department dealing with the census.

You are correct,the information is private, however their have been a few instances were this information has become public. Plus some people who are part of this fraud tend to boost.

If you punch the following into a search engine you'll find a report which outlines and points to the procedures and methods applied in checking the census 'The 2011 Census Coverage and Assessment Adjustment'

You shouldn't fee bad about not being aware of the process of data checking in a government statistics department, perhaps your 'time working the the department dealing with the census' was spent on 'other duties'.

[7by7]

I wonder if the OP's objection isn't that his daughter has children by different fathers and is claiming all these benefits whilst also working; but that she converted to Islam?

After all, there are plenty of non Muslim women in the UK who are doing exactly the same thing; probably proportionately more given the Islamic prohibitions on sex outside of marriage and adultery.

Object to the benefits and welfare system which allows people to get away with this by all means; but their religion is irrelevant.

[chiang mai]

Many posters are using the Muslim issue as a cover in this thread, some remain bitter about past failed relationships, others appear jealous that they no longer have access to benefits as they once did, religion is just a convenient excuse to express their anger - others have simply climbed on a popular bandwagon and borrowed the popular view without knowing or thinking about it. None of which suggest that the UK benefits system is not in deep need of repair, it is, but that work is underway any way as far as I can see.

Edited January 2, 2016 by chiang mai

[loppylugs1]

I wonder if the OP's objection isn't that his daughter has children by different fathers and is claiming all these benefits whilst also working; but that she converted to Islam?

After all, there are plenty of non Muslim women in the UK who are doing exactly the same thing; probably proportionately more given the Islamic prohibitions on sex outside of marriage and adultery.

Object to the benefits and welfare system which allows people to get away with this by all means; but their religion is irrelevant.

You would have to put it to the muslim rape gangs that marauded up and down the UK with regards to the Islamic prohibitions on sex inside and outside marriage,and I do believe the majority banged up over the last few years were indeed married,grandfathers too oh dear.

Now the piece regarding benefits and muslims and religion being irrelevant,I believe religion is relevant to their benefits,daily prayer,ramadam,watch them weaken during a working day,the tendency to flock to industrial tribunals at frivolities virtually cancels them out of the jobs market. Woken at 5am for the first calling would put a lot of workers on the dole,just for loss of sleep alone

It gets tiring looking at arguments defending their faith,at least Saudi are doing something about it LOL, but if I personally was to establish a scheme to put the fear of God (or allah) i could not do better that IDS with universal Credits Cometh the hour,Cometh the man

[chiang mai]

Anyone who paints everyone in any particular religion with the same brush doesn't deserve to be heard.

[loppylugs1]

Edited January 3, 2016 by loppylugs1

[loppylugs1]

Anyone who paints everyone in any particular religion with the same brush doesn't deserve to be heard.

Ah! now you are going back to 1234 remember a load of utter tosh ,rubbish, ..and you could say doesn't deserve to post either

[chiang mai]

Anyone who paints everyone in any particular religion with the same brush doesn't deserve to be heard.

Ah! now you are going back to 1234 remember a load of utter tosh ,rubbish, ..and you could say doesn't deserve to post either

So you do think they are all exactly the same, just like all Christians, Catholics, Buddhists and Jews are exactly the same, wow!

[jacky54]

I thought most Muslims do not practice birth control like Catholics, hence the higher birthrates? So religion would have an impact on the story. The woman in the story is immoral, a thief and a liar.

[i claudius]

Anyone who paints everyone in any particular religion with the same brush doesn't deserve to be heard.

So dont listen , pop off back to your land where muslims are lovely and just want to live in peace with all other religions and do not mind if you leave and convert to another religion , and where they do not want the whole world to worship islam , ,by by ,its a long way to neverland .

[chiang mai]

People with attitudes such as those, people like Trump for example, they just make the problem so much worse, generating hatred towards all Muslims only makes the peaceful, rational ones feel targeted and marginalized, you know, the 98% group and it slowly pushes them towards the ideologies of the extremists, the 2%. So it's kinda cutsie that you can say all that stuff to your friends and maybe they'll be impressed, I'm not because you're actually a huge part of the problem. Think about it.

[i claudius]

People with attitudes such as those, people like Trump for example, they just make the problem so much worse, generating hatred towards all Muslims only makes the peaceful, rational ones feel targeted and marginalized, you know, the 98% group and it slowly pushes them towards the ideologies of the extremists, the 2%. So it's kinda cutsie that you can say all that stuff to your friends and maybe they'll be impressed, I'm not because you're actually a huge part of the problem. Think about it.

I Have thought about,I have worked with and I lived amongst them for years,yes there are a few good ones. Very very few,their religion rules them just like it ruled us in the middle ages ,when we burned witches ,unfortunately most of them have not come into the 21st centuary,they are still where we were then ,ruled by what their religion told them ,and we all know what that is the rest of us are kafirs and until we worship Islam we are as nothing , Edited January 3, 2016 by i claudius

[TommyUK1960]

The British welfare state when created was a wonderful thing. Today it will be the down fall of Britain. It is unfair and supports the wrong people. When I left England in 2009 Northampton was slowly being taken over by foreigners, When I go back to visit the houses I used to own and rent to private renters, all owned by one guy and all are occupied by people on welfare all foreigners. To me this is just wrong.

Houses I owned in Wolverhampton are all owned by Muslim families and rented to Muslims on welfare. So the question I ask is why are the Government doing this to my country?

[chiang mai]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

[nontabury]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

Do you consider 7 yrs to be a long time? OK so Some changes should be expected, but the amount that has taken place in this time frame could be thought of as excessive. People have become increasingly angry, added to this is the conception that now increasing numbers of foreigners who have never paid into the system are also becoming state dependents. And what do you get= a back lash.

Edited January 3, 2016 by nontabury

[chiang mai]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

Do you consider 7 yrs to be a long time? OK so Some changes should be expected, but the amount that has taken place in this time frame could be thought of as excessive. People have become increasingly angry, added to this is the conception that now increasing numbers of foreigners who have never paid into the system are also becoming state dependents. And what do you get= a back lash.

There will always be areas that were right on the very edge of growth and change where a seven year period will see a remarkable transformation, I would be shocked however if say the traditional Anglo Saxon hamlet of Little Nether in the countryside of the Shires were transformed from genteel to heaving extremist in that period.

The problem with the perception of change is that it's difficult to quantify, every time I go back to the UK I visit friends in Sherborne, the place seems as though it has barely changed in 600 years, I doubt that the same is true of inner city Bradford.

[nontabury]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

Do you consider 7 yrs to be a long time? OK so Some changes should be expected, but the amount that has taken place in this time frame could be thought of as excessive. People have become increasingly angry, added to this is the conception that now increasing numbers of foreigners who have never paid into the system are also becoming state dependents. And what do you get= a back lash.

There will always be areas that were right on the very edge of growth and change where a seven year period will see a remarkable transformation, I would be shocked however if say the traditional Anglo Saxon hamlet of Little Nether in the countryside of the Shires were transformed from genteel to heaving extremist in that period.

The problem with the perception of change is that it's difficult to quantify, every time I go back to the UK I visit friends in Sherborne, the place seems as though it has barely changed in 600 years, I doubt that the same is true of inner city Bradford.

Certainly very true of parts of Bradford, even 20 yrs ago you could easily have thought you were in another country. Certainly no signs of integration.

Regarding Benefits, the Labour Party I believe has encouraged this state dependency,from which they gain when it comes to elections.

[7by7]

<snip>

After all, there are plenty of non Muslim women in the UK who are doing exactly the same thing; probably proportionately more given the Islamic prohibitions on sex outside of marriage and adultery.....

You would have to put it to the muslim rape gangs that marauded up and down the UK with regards to the Islamic prohibitions on sex inside and outside marriage,and I do believe the majority banged up over the last few years were indeed married,grandfathers too oh dear......

As was repeatedly shown in the various topics discussing the horrendous crimes of those gangs, they were roundly condemned by the Muslim community.

More so than the Catholic priests who abused young boys in their care in Ireland, the UK, Spain etc. have been by the Catholic community!

[Jip99]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

Do you consider 7 yrs to be a long time? OK so Some changes should be expected, but the amount that has taken place in this time frame could be thought of as excessive. People have become increasingly angry, added to this is the conception that now increasing numbers of foreigners who have never paid into the system are also becoming state dependents. And what do you get= a back lash.

There will always be areas that were right on the very edge of growth and change where a seven year period will see a remarkable transformation, I would be shocked however if say the traditional Anglo Saxon hamlet of Little Nether in the countryside of the Shires were transformed from genteel to heaving extremist in that period.

The problem with the perception of change is that it's difficult to quantify, every time I go back to the UK I visit friends in Sherborne, the place seems as though it has barely changed in 600 years, I doubt that the same is true of inner city Bradford.

Try Hounslow or Wembley as your comparison.

many migrants head for the areas with the greatest opportunities for work................. Sherborne, with a population under 10,000, may not satisfy that criteria.

[nontabury]

<snip>

After all, there are plenty of non Muslim women in the UK who are doing exactly the same thing; probably proportionately more given the Islamic prohibitions on sex outside of marriage and adultery.....

You would have to put it to the muslim rape gangs that marauded up and down the UK with regards to the Islamic prohibitions on sex inside and outside marriage,and I do believe the majority banged up over the last few years were indeed married,grandfathers too oh dear......

As was repeatedly shown in the various topics discussing the horrendous crimes of those gangs, they were roundly condemned by the Muslim community.

More so than the Catholic priests who abused young boys in their care in Ireland, the UK, Spain etc. have been by the Catholic community!

Wrong, as shown in previous topics, they were not condemned by the majority of their fellow Muslems. No street demonstrations took place in Rotherham condemning these child rapist. As I have pointed out to you previously, the only demonstration that took place in Rotherham was when the local authority ordered that ALL taxis ( the Muslim taxi drivers were at the centre of this abuse ) to install cameras in their vehicles . This lead to the Muslims demonstrating on the streets.

[i claudius]

There has never been a demonstration in the streets in Britain condemning other Muslims so come on you on the left prove me wrong

Edited January 4, 2016 by i claudius

[nong38]

Guesthouse, you seem to be playing the Devils advocate here or you dont believe anything you see or read, some of it is open to debate, its up to you make up your mind up jjst as I expected the response you have just made.

No, I'm calling you out for making an assertion that you can't support with any reeliable data, for floppy thinking and hypocracy.

If you want to debate the matter present some data.

Newspaper reports, photos or what you see on the news has all been subject to editorial control, by example the Daily Mail will present different photos and reports than the Guardian for the very same story.

Hence don't present news reports as the truth.

You made an assertion but can't back it up.

I called you on it.

You are just an old keyboard warrior who should get out more, you dont believe anything that the media reports unless it suits you and your view.

I gave my honest opinion of how I see the situation after reading and watching and experiencing what is going on in the UK, I also believe what I am seeing is what others see as well, you may disagree but you clearly do not see or experience what I do, you cannot you are not me.

So I challenge you to show me evidence that will change my point of view.

Incidently did you go and look on the BBC Europe site about the Bavarian town and how they are coping with immigrants? Thought not, to difficult to find perhaps or not suit your case?

[jacky54]

Muslims will never honestly condemn the rape of infidels, never mind be out on the streets marching against it, it's part of the faith. The prophet was a rapist and the koran condones it,

Edited January 4, 2016 by jacky54

[chiang mai]

You left your country seven years ago, did you expect that it would remain exactly as it was, waiting for you to return!

The boiling frog syndrome applies here, drop a frog into boiling water and it dies, this is you in this example. But put a frog into luke warm water and then gradually turn up the heat over time and the frog remains quite comfortable, until it suddenly dies.

Do you consider 7 yrs to be a long time? OK so Some changes should be expected, but the amount that has taken place in this time frame could be thought of as excessive. People have become increasingly angry, added to this is the conception that now increasing numbers of foreigners who have never paid into the system are also becoming state dependents. And what do you get= a back lash.

There will always be areas that were right on the very edge of growth and change where a seven year period will see a remarkable transformation, I would be shocked however if say the traditional Anglo Saxon hamlet of Little Nether in the countryside of the Shires were transformed from genteel to heaving extremist in that period.

The problem with the perception of change is that it's difficult to quantify, every time I go back to the UK I visit friends in Sherborne, the place seems as though it has barely changed in 600 years, I doubt that the same is true of inner city Bradford.

Try Hounslow or Wembley as your comparison.

many migrants head for the areas with the greatest opportunities for work................. Sherborne, with a population under 10,000, may not satisfy that criteria.

"many migrants head for the areas with the greatest opportunities for work..." - er, um, doesn't that argument therefore defeat the idea that they're all on benefits!!!

[chiang mai]

There has never been a demonstration in the streets in Britain condemning other Muslims so come on you on the left prove me wrong

Muslims involved in peaceful acts, doesn't sell newspapers in the UK, Fleet Street (big sigh), or rather UK Joe Public wants stories about gays being thrown off the roof, babies being blown up and women being raped, preferably with pictures because that enhances the image that's been established! I presume you're a Mirror reader!

I found the article below in under 5 seconds of searching so not exactly well researched or hard to find:

"Hundreds of Muslims marched through central London at the weekend to call for peace and unity.

Yet the organisers of the annual procession said not one single mainstream media outlet covered it because it was not "juicy" enough"

"The mainstream media is reluctant to give a platform to moderate Muslims.”.

He said: "I’ve never met anyone who is pro-ISIS, 99 per cent of Muslims just want to lead peaceful lives, you know, have a coffee with friends. This is the message we want to get out there."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hundreds-muslims-marching-against-terrorism-6977099

And another one:

"Muslims have used social media to demonstrate that they want no part in the extremism and violence that terrorists commit in the name of Islam".

"In the UK, leader of the Muslim Council of Great Britain Dr Shuja Shafi, condemned the attacks “in the strongest possible terms,” labelling them “horrific and abhorrent”.

"My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours. This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves 'Islamic State'. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996902/i-am-a-muslim-paris-attacks-social-media.html

And one more:

"A group of young British Muslims have declared their own “jihad” against Isis and all other terrorist groups.

The Muslim Youth League UK announced an ideological holy war against the Islamic State at a conference in Glasgow on Sunday, saying militants had “no link with Islam or the Muslim community”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/young-british-muslims-declare-own-jihad-against-isis-and-other-terrorists-who-hijack-islam-10146534.html

BTW I'm nowhere "the left", most of the time I'm so far to the right that I nearly come back on myself.

Edited January 4, 2016 by chiang mai