Greek drivers surrender car plates to avoid heavy taxation

[webfact]

Greek drivers surrender car plates to avoid heavy taxation
By Keith Walker



ATHENS: -- Greek car drivers queue with their car number pates at tax offices around the country.

When they hand over the plates to authorities, they will avoid paying road taxes.

That translates to about 700 million euros in lost revenue for the Greek government over the last six years.

But without plates, cars must be immobilised.

“Of course I will be left without a car. But if you can`t pay the fees, what can you do?,” asks one woman.

One man in the queue explains why he is handing in his plates: “Car maintenance, road taxes, all the expenses of the car…”

When asked by a reporter, “Do you intend to pick the car plates back at some point?,” he replies that “if circumstances allow, why not?”

The latest bailout agreement requires Greece to collect 150 million euros from the tax. It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Owners of diesel engines benefit from lower taxes.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-12-30

[thaibeachlovers]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

[ezzra]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You're barking up the wrong tree, yes, many cities and countries can do with out large engines or even cars at all, but than again you're opening the Pandora box of having the argument for many other consumer's products that the world can do with out... there's no end to what people can do if only they set their minds to it...

[NeverSure]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

Oh yes, let's control everyone. Big Brother is watching. The smallest engine I own is 5.4 liter in a Ford F150 Supercrew.

I love freedom. I hate a nanny state.

Cheers.

[fxe1200]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

Oh yes, let's control everyone. Big Brother is watching. The smallest engine I own is 5.4 liter in a Ford F150 Supercrew.

I love freedom. I hate a nanny state.

Cheers.

With eight billion inhabitants on our planet and the climate change under way, I would rather live in a nanny state, because we have to many folks who only think from 12 to noon. They have to be looked after, charged, and fined if necessary, for the sake of the planet.

“I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of inner peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion and elimination of ignorance, selfishness and greed.” - Dalai Lama

Edited December 30, 2015 by fxe1200

[sanukjim]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

AH yes,you must be from Europe some place with an income where you limited to obtain a car with a small engine displacement. Until you have lived in others shoes your opinion is crap

[sanukjim]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You drive a scooter because that is what you can afford.You probably haven't had a good car or proper motorcycle with a large engine displacement and are just jealous of people that do. So your opinion is just like your scooter "a bit small."

[steve654]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

My V6 3.5 litre motor gets better mpg than my 2.4 litre 4cyl motor.

Edited December 30, 2015 by steve654

[tingtongfarang]

I think your all barking up the wrong tree, i lived in greece 14 years even before and during the time they entered the european community,

An imported car in greece was/is taxed by something like 200% or more depending on engine size, but not on the price you paid for it...they have their own little book with all models listed and value according to year,

Of course these prices bare no relation to the true value of the vehicle or the price you paid, they have no interest in the bill of sale proving how much you paid,

Naturally all of this is against european rules and the agreements singed when joining the EC, the greek government has been paying heavy annual fines for not abiding with such rules/laws,

But it was alway clear to me the fines were not large enough and there was more more to be made by not abiding but agreements they signed,

As a foriegner ie xenos non greek and driving a vehicle registered in another country when stopped by police their first question would be....how long has this car been inside the country, seems 3 months was allowed but their was no way to prove it,

Cars would be confiscated empounded even luxury cars from germans, foriegners would of course involve the euopean courts and dates would be set, the greek government would find a way to cancel the court hearing days or even hours before or in some cases just ignore any corespondence from the first contact,

I know all this well as for years i made a living driving cars in and out of greece for retirees who no longer had the will to travel, myself as i was often between greece and germany found it better to buy a car for 100euro and if stopped after 3 months ...just dismount the plates and say to the police...thanks for the conversation and walk away with the plates.

Edited December 30, 2015 by tingtongfarang

[joebrown]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You drive a scooter because that is what you can afford.You probably haven't had a good car or proper motorcycle with a large engine displacement and are just jealous of people that do. So your opinion is just like your scooter "a bit small."

If you are comparing 'sizes' I think 'thaibeachlovers' TVF posting history puts yours into the miniscule, rather than 'a bit small' classification. I've always wondered whether there's any truth in the idea that people who boast about their big motors/engines are deficient in the reproductive part of their anatomy?

[smedly]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

AH yes,you must be from Europe some place with an income where you limited to obtain a car with a small engine displacement. Until you have lived in others shoes your opinion is crap

actually there really is no need for these large engines, they are inefficient gas guzzlers, the only thing they do is make noise and pollute, you have 2lit cars that will outperform and use a 1/4 of the fuel

same thing with these big noisy Harley motorbikes that with +1500cc engines that can be easily be outperformed by a Honda 250, like the big engine cars all they do efficiently is pollute and make noise and have to stop at a gas station every 100km

time to move on

[trogers]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

AH yes,you must be from Europe some place with an income where you limited to obtain a car with a small engine displacement. Until you have lived in others shoes your opinion is crap

actually there really is no need for these large engines, they are inefficient gas guzzlers, the only thing they do is make noise and pollute, you have 2lit cars that will outperform and use a 1/4 of the fuel

same thing with these big noisy Harley motorbikes that with +1500cc engines that can be easily be outperformed by a Honda 250, like the big engine cars all they do efficiently is pollute and make noise and have to stop at a gas station every 100km

time to move on

My bicycle outperforms a Ferrari any time on the streets of Bangkok...

[thaibeachlovers]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You drive a scooter because that is what you can afford.You probably haven't had a good car or proper motorcycle with a large engine displacement and are just jealous of people that do. So your opinion is just like your scooter "a bit small."

Except that forum rules don't allow I'd call you a rude word. You have no idea what I have had or not had. I used to drive big 10 wheeler trucks- I think their engines would piss over whatever you drive.

Back in the day, I drove a straight 6 Torana- it wasn't particularly large, but probably show your heap my backside.

Used to ride big British m'bikes, probably before you were even a twinkle, and had a Honda 4 for years.

Jealous! 55555555555555555555555555555 I just grew out of the desire to waste petrol on big cars when all I need is a m'bike, and I'm certainly not going to drive one of those big things that are completely unsuitable on Thai town roads for doing the shopping.

[thaibeachlovers]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

Oh yes, let's control everyone. Big Brother is watching. The smallest engine I own is 5.4 liter in a Ford F150 Supercrew.

I love freedom. I hate a nanny state.

Cheers.

I'm pretty sure I didn't call for big cars to be banned or for your freedom to be curtailed, I'd just like you to pay a LOT more for the privilege of wasting petrol.

I do want private cars to be taxed out of using city centers as they ruin the quality of life for people that live/ visit there. However, go live in the Australian outback and you can have the biggest engine you can buy.

Edited December 30, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[sanukjim]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You drive a scooter because that is what you can afford.You probably haven't had a good car or proper motorcycle with a large engine displacement and are just jealous of people that do. So your opinion is just like your scooter "a bit small."

If you are comparing 'sizes' I think 'thaibeachlovers' TVF posting history puts yours into the miniscule, rather than 'a bit small' classification. I've always wondered whether there's any truth in the idea that people who boast about their big motors/engines are deficient in the reproductive part of their anatomy?

I will lay mine out for a contest of length any time Boy>

[elgordo38]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

Oh yes, let's control everyone. Big Brother is watching. The smallest engine I own is 5.4 liter in a Ford F150 Supercrew.

I love freedom. I hate a nanny state.

Cheers.

With eight billion inhabitants on our planet and the climate change under way, I would rather live in a nanny state, because we have to many folks who only think from 12 to noon. They have to be looked after, charged, and fined if necessary, for the sake of the planet.

I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of inner peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion and elimination of ignorance, selfishness and greed. - Dalai Lama

Yes the "nanny" state fellow is nattering again. With the size of the world population and the extreme pollution thereof we need laws that ALL must abide by and that preserve the quality of life for EVERYONE.

[Balance]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You're barking up the wrong tree, yes, many cities and countries can do with out large engines or even cars at all, but than again you're opening the Pandora box of having the argument for many other consumer's products that the world can do with out... there's no end to what people can do if only they set their minds to it...

It is exactly the right tree to bark at, very loudly. Though the public hears very little of the argument, a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close. Unnecessary consumption driven by the pursuit of money has already degraded the world environment and it will get worse as the fight for dwindling natural resources will destabilize governments and increase major conflicts. Don't forget that it was intentional starvation of Germany after WWW I by the United States, France and GB that gave rise to the Nazi Party in the 1930's.

The is a need for another economic paradigm; one that is sustainable for everyone.

[Ulic]

Tax the hell out of the big engines, no taxes on electric vehicles, moderate taxes on vehicles

under 1.8 or so liters. Those who have the money and insist on driving the big engines, fine.

You just pay more. Sales tax, licence plate renewal, fuel tax, (from increased fuel consumption).

Also end the lower tax on diesel engine vehicles. Pickup trucks should not get an exemption

from any environmental regulations. This is not an nanny state issue, this is common sense

protection of the environment and peoples health.

[OMGImInPattaya]

That's what decades of electing socialists gets you...too poor to even afford a car.

[tingtongfarang]

The op highlighted the fact that cars with larger engines are now subject to a higher rate of road tax not which poster has the largest engine capacity,

In my view the greek citizens along with previous governments have been their own enemy, if avoiding income tax or any other form of tax had been an olympic sport the greeks would would have won i gold every time without question, not only the current government but all previous have been unwilling to introduce any kind of system where income tax could be collected and seem reluctant to change,

Car ownership for the greeks compared to other european citizens is something quite new, as in many developing countries governments seen this as an easy form of revenue and played on on its citizens illogical craving to own a car regardless of cost, ( similar to thailand )

The greek government ignored the fact such import taxes were not allowed by european law and were only ever interested in the eu handouts with no intention to pay back, authorities could be very inventive in ways to collect revenue but most often not inline with agreements signed when joining,

For me it was never clear who would be liable to pay income tax even with a workable system as it was difficult to find anyone who really worked, the mystery for me was always how do they earn a living drinking coffee and smoking outside the cafe neon allday,

I spent 14 years building a house alone with my own hands, when all but finished a bill arrived from a government office named IKA, they were demanding 12000euro for the workers who did,nt build my house ,

Of course i made an appointment and explained there had been no workers, still they claimed i was liable for the health insurance, pension, and income tax for workers i had never seen or employed, their only arguement was...we are not interested in european law...you are in greece,

This tax has nothing to do with engine size but more to do with the governments failure to collect income tax and the greeks can hand their plates in and find another way to get to the cafe neon.

Edited December 30, 2015 by tingtongfarang

[thaibeachlovers]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You're barking up the wrong tree, yes, many cities and countries can do with out large engines or even cars at all, but than again you're opening the Pandora box of having the argument for many other consumer's products that the world can do with out... there's no end to what people can do if only they set their minds to it...

It is exactly the right tree to bark at, very loudly. Though the public hears very little of the argument, a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close. Unnecessary consumption driven by the pursuit of money has already degraded the world environment and it will get worse as the fight for dwindling natural resources will destabilize governments and increase major conflicts. Don't forget that it was intentional starvation of Germany after WWW I by the United States, France and GB that gave rise to the Nazi Party in the 1930's.

The is a need for another economic paradigm; one that is sustainable for everyone.

a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close

If they've only just worked that out they must be really dim. I've been aware of that as long as I can remember, and that was when there were 2 billion less people on the planet.

The only thing that will make a real difference is less people, but that ship has long ago sailed. Sadly, I think hard times lie ahead because some people in the west care only about themselves and their self gratification, consuming vast amounts of resources, while the poor in the rest of the world live in desperate situations.

Seems every time the price of oil goes up, and inventions come out to reduce the use of oil, the oil price drops and sustainable energy gets dropped again.

[thaibeachlovers]

The op highlighted the fact that cars with larger engines are now subject to a higher rate of road tax not which poster has the largest engine capacity,

In my view the greek citizens along with previous governments have been their own enemy, if avoiding income tax or any other form of tax had been an olympic sport the greeks would would have won i gold every time without question, not only the current government but all previous have been unwilling to introduce any kind of system where income tax could be collected and seem reluctant to change,

Car ownership for the greeks compared to other european citizens is something quite new, as in many developing countries governments seen this as an easy form of revenue and played on on its citizens illogical craving to own a car regardless of cost, ( similar to thailand )

The greek government ignored the fact such import taxes were not allowed by european law and were only ever interested in the eu handouts with no intention to pay back, authorities could be very inventive in ways to collect revenue but most often not inline with agreements signed when joining,

For me it was never clear who would be liable to pay income tax even with a workable system as it was difficult to find anyone who really worked, the mystery for me was always how do they earn a living drinking coffee and smoking outside the cafe neon allday,

I spent 14 years building a house alone with my own hands, when all but finished a bill arrived from a government office named IKA, they were demanding 12000euro for the workers who did,nt build my house ,

Of course i made an appointment and explained there had been no workers, still they claimed i was liable for the health insurance, pension, and income tax for workers i had never seen or employed, their only arguement was...we are not interested in european law...you are in greece,

This tax has nothing to do with engine size but more to do with the governments failure to collect income tax and the greeks can hand their plates in and find another way to get to the cafe neon.

You were lucky to be able to build your house yourself ( did you pay the tax for non existent workers? ). In NZ, the ultimate nanny state, you can't build one yourself ( so houses are now at astronomical prices ). I wouldn't be surprised that in the near future you'll have to have a registered assistant to make sure you have a dump correctly. It seems the bureaucrats have gone mad and are regulating everything except crime.

No wonder I love LOS.

[tomyumchai]

It affects all vehicles with engines over 2.5 litres.

Damn good job too. There is no reason for anyone to have a car with a petrol motor over 2.5 litres. They should be paying through the nose for the wasted petrol they are using if they want to use a big car.

I'd like to see all private cars be taxed off the roads in cities, as they have ruined them for people. As long as good public transport systems are put in place.

It's possible to go without a car in Thailand, as I did for a long time- a motorbike was sufficient, and intercity public transport is excellent. It's only in countries like NZ that a car is essential, as public transport sucks or is non existent and m'bikes cost a fortune because of tax etc.

You drive a scooter because that is what you can afford.You probably haven't had a good car or proper motorcycle with a large engine displacement and are just jealous of people that do. So your opinion is just like your scooter "a bit small."

If you are comparing 'sizes' I think 'thaibeachlovers' TVF posting history puts yours into the miniscule, rather than 'a bit small' classification. I've always wondered whether there's any truth in the idea that people who boast about their big motors/engines are deficient in the reproductive part of their anatomy?

I will lay mine out for a contest of length any time Boy>

yup....n this year ill be throwing the 2.2ltr diesel out of my ride and replacing it with a lexus V8...... havnt decided if i want the 4.0ltr or a 4.7ltr.

........and nearly every girl whos gazed apon my old chap has said "OOH, YOU HAVE BIG COCK"..... they cant all be lying.

[mpa]

That's what decades of electing socialists gets you...too poor to even afford a car.

Socialists my @rse.

Real socialists got elected in Scandinavia where you have Volvo Saab Scania etc

[sanukjim]

That's what decades of electing socialists gets you...too poor to even afford a car.

Socialists my @rse.

Real socialists got elected in Scandinavia where you have Volvo Saab Scania etc

And these car companys are owned by corporations outside of the country.

[rsokolowski]

a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close

If they've only just worked that out they must be really dim. I've been aware of that as long as I can remember, and that was when there were 2 billion less people on the planet.

The only thing that will make a real difference is less people, but that ship has long ago sailed. Sadly, I think hard times lie ahead because some people in the west care only about themselves and their self gratification, consuming vast amounts of resources, while the poor in the rest of the world live in desperate situations.

Seems every time the price of oil goes up, and inventions come out to reduce the use of oil, the oil price drops and sustainable energy gets dropped again.

If it is an "inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism" where is the problem? Market forces will work out the problem, governments don't need to do anything. Doing nothing is one of the few things that governments the world over are any good at, one other thing they are really good at is creating unintended consequences while trying to "fix" things.

[thaibeachlovers]

a growing number of economists are beginning to voice the single inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism, or anything even close

If they've only just worked that out they must be really dim. I've been aware of that as long as I can remember, and that was when there were 2 billion less people on the planet.

The only thing that will make a real difference is less people, but that ship has long ago sailed. Sadly, I think hard times lie ahead because some people in the west care only about themselves and their self gratification, consuming vast amounts of resources, while the poor in the rest of the world live in desperate situations.

Seems every time the price of oil goes up, and inventions come out to reduce the use of oil, the oil price drops and sustainable energy gets dropped again.

If it is an "inescapable fact that the world cannot support the current level of consumerism" where is the problem? Market forces will work out the problem, governments don't need to do anything. Doing nothing is one of the few things that governments the world over are any good at, one other thing they are really good at is creating unintended consequences while trying to "fix" things.

That's OK as long as you don't mind civil war and the deaths of millions.

If you think the very poor will quietly starve and die without revolting, you must be a real optimist.

You may not have noticed, but there will be wars about water, as it becomes a rare commodity. Market force that one.