Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[iReason]

As tomach8 aptly pointed out,

greenchair, with his misdirection, isn't even able to exhibit a grasp of common mathematics.

[KunMatt]

#1. Is the broken hoe allegedly found at the brutal double murder scene.

#2. Is the hoe presented as evidence.

#2 is not the hoe presented as evidence; you are, quite simply, spreading false information.

Do you honestly believe that only the hoe was used to make the injuries on Hannah and David?

[Khun Han]

So now the police didn't even do a test. Just wrote some made up information on a bit of paper.

Except that this test was by pornthip.

I understand better now.

So if someone robbed a bank, but only part of the licence was seen. Then if it was on an island of maybe a thousand people , and of those thousand people 5 had license plates with that number and that letter. If the police went to search each of those 5 people houses. Then in the bushes behind 1 of those houses was a torn up bank bag, from the same bank that had just been robbed. And there was video footage of the plate owner near the bank running around half naked . And none of the other houses had any connection at all to the bank.

Then would it be fair to say, it is highly probable that the person in possession of the bank bag would be a prime suspect.

You obviously didn't follow through on your idea to ask Partington (or follow and read the link provided by jayjay78 on this page), otherwise you wouldn't have posted the above nonsensical analogy. Here is what Partington says in the linked post:

"A Y-chromosome match of 25%, which is being discussed here, means that only one quarter of the markers were the same. This means nothing at all about identification, as the witness said. No markers were readable that excluded the suspect, and a match of one quarter of the markers with the suspect gives no indication at all about whether it is his DNA, because this same match could have been obtained from any random man off the street."

So, apart from the fact that the dna "match" of some mythical DNA recovered from Hannah's body being made after the B2 were arrested, and apart from the fact that the 25% DNA match on the garden hoe was only found by Pornthip's lab during the trial, which makes a nonsense of your 'partial car number plate leading to the door of the B2' analogy, the 25% mach could be to any male on the island, or any male in the world for that matter. That narrows the suspect list down a bit, doesn't it?

And you're getting your CCTV videos mixed up. It was Warot Tuvichien who was caught on video running around half-naked at around the time of the crime. The B3 were caught fully-clothed on a motorsi several hours before the crime.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Khun Han

[berybert]

#1. Is the broken hoe allegedly found at the brutal double murder scene.

#2. Is the hoe presented as evidence.

#2 is not the hoe presented as evidence; you are, quite simply, spreading false information.

Is he ? And here was I thinking that was your job.

[iReason]

"Colonel Somsak Nurod, who led the original investigation, said some evidence could no longer be re-tested as it had been lost, including a hair sample found in Witheridge’s hand."

“There is documentation of the testing we did at the time but some of the evidence, including the hair sample, was lost, so it cannot be retested,” Somsak told Reuters in a telephone interview.

"He added that biological samples found on cigarette butts taken from the crime scene were “finished”, but declined to go into further details."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0PJ1VI20150709

Edited January 19, 2016 by iReason

[AleG]

#1. Is the broken hoe allegedly found at the brutal double murder scene.

#2. Is the hoe presented as evidence.

#2 is not the hoe presented as evidence; you are, quite simply, spreading false information.

Do you honestly believe that only the hoe was used to make the injuries on Hannah and David?

That's what the forensic experts determined.

From the verdict report you all are ignoring in favour of your old, tired out speculation:

"The wounds to the head and face of the Second Deceased were all shown to be serious wounds matching the kind of injury that would be incurred by an attack with the blade and handle of the exhibited hoe, as Police Colonel Phawat M.D. and Khunying Pornthip M.D. have testified."

If Dr. Pornthip would have found that Miller's wounds didn't also correspond to the hoe too we would have already heard about it, the conclusion from the report is that:

"The cause of death was determined as the result of head wounds caused by a blunt object.", the same exact wording for both Miller and Witheridge.

No shark teeth rings no "push knives", no bullets; that's why investigators use actual professional pathologists working on actual bodies to find things out, not self styled Internet sleuths looking at a handful of poor quality pictures desperately trying to look smarter and better informed than the professionals handling the actual evidence.

[KunMatt]

#1. Is the broken hoe allegedly found at the brutal double murder scene.

#2. Is the hoe presented as evidence.

#2 is not the hoe presented as evidence; you are, quite simply, spreading false information.

Do you honestly believe that only the hoe was used to make the injuries on Hannah and David?

That's what the forensic experts determined.

From the verdict report you all are ignoring in favour of your old, tired out speculation:

"The wounds to the head and face of the Second Deceased were all shown to be serious wounds matching the kind of injury that would be incurred by an attack with the blade and handle of the exhibited hoe, as Police Colonel Phawat M.D. and Khunying Pornthip M.D. have testified."

If Dr. Pornthip would have found that Miller's wounds didn't also correspond to the hoe too we would have already heard about it, the conclusion from the report is that:

"The cause of death was determined as the result of head wounds caused by a blunt object.", the same exact wording for both Miller and Witheridge.

No shark teeth rings no "push knives", no bullets; that's why investigators use actual professional pathologists working on actual bodies to find things out, not self styled Internet sleuths looking at a handful of poor quality pictures desperately trying to look smarter and better informed than the professionals handling the actual evidence.

That's not what I asked.

Do YOU honestly believe that a hoe caused the injuries to both victims?

[AleG]

That's not what I asked.

Do YOU honestly believe that a hoe caused the injuries to both victims?

Yes, because I accept the judgement of the experts, as I pointed out before.

You, on the other hand appear to believe that you know better than the experts that examined the bodies; now if you lot can present actual testimony from an actual forensic expert who actually examined the bodies I will consider that, but so far all you have to show in support of your pet theories is your own uninformed, unsubstantiated, biased and far fetched opinions.

[iReason]

Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod:

"There's nothing left. It was all used up when we tested the first time," he was quoted as saying. (In court)

“Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.”

"This report may have resulted from a mistranslation of the officer's statement," Somyot said, adding that maybe the officer wanted to say that the evidence had been handed over to the Institute of Forensic Medicine after the investigation finished”

Interesting. In a courtroom full of Thais, all experience: “mistranslation”

"We still have specific DNA samples from the hoe," he said, without elaborating.

Really?

And where is it?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forensic-evidence-not-lost-police-chief-30264238.html

[greenchair]

So now the police didn't even do a test. Just wrote some made up information on a bit of paper.

Except that this test was by pornthip.

I understand better now.

So if someone robbed a bank, but only part of the licence was seen. Then if it was on an island of maybe a thousand people , and of those thousand people 5 had license plates with that number and that letter. If the police went to search each of those 5 people houses. Then in the bushes behind 1 of those houses was a torn up bank bag, from the same bank that had just been robbed. And there was video footage of the plate owner near the bank running around half naked . And none of the other houses had any connection at all to the bank.

Then would it be fair to say, it is highly probable that the person in possession of the bank bag would be a prime suspect.

You obviously didn't follow through on your idea to ask Partington (or follow and read the link provided by jayjay78 on this page), otherwise you wouldn't have posted the above nonsensical analogy. Here is what Partington says in the linked post:

"A Y-chromosome match of 25%, which is being discussed here, means that only one quarter of the markers were the same. This means nothing at all about identification, as the witness said. No markers were readable that excluded the suspect, and a match of one quarter of the markers with the suspect gives no indication at all about whether it is his DNA, because this same match could have been obtained from any random man off the street."

So, apart from the fact that the dna "match" of some mythical DNA recovered from Hannah's body being made after the B2 were arrested, and apart from the fact that the 25% DNA match on the garden hoe was only found by Pornthip's lab during the trial, which makes a nonsense of your 'partial car number plate leading to the door of the B2' analogy, the 25% mach could be to any male on the island, or any male in the world for that matter. That narrows the suspect list down a bit, doesn't it?

And you're getting your CCTV videos mixed up. It was Warot Tuvichien who was caught on video running around half-naked at around the time of the crime. The B3 were caught fully-clothed on a motorsi several hours before the crime.

Just how of the males in the world or on the island for that matter had the victims phone hidden behind his house hmmmm.

Only one.

[TheLobster]

Avoid quoting posters here, it leads to misdirection, if you need to quote then quote reports or credible sources.

The prosecution had no credible evidence of the DNA of the B2 on the murder weapon. Why didn't they test it? Why?

I seem to recall from the trial report that 'even after the crime has been committed Mr O continued to use the exhibited hoe before it was sent off for examination' !

[TheLobster]

I believe that the hoe was used to caused Hannah's severe injuries, it's the type of injury I would expect a Thai hoe to cause. David's multiple lesser injuries could not have been caused by the same weapon.

Anyone who argues that the same single weapon caused completely different injuries to each victim is clearly lying.

The conclusion from the trial report is that it was the hoe and the same single weapon.

[KunMatt]

I believe that the hoe was used to caused Hannah's severe injuries, it's the type of injury I would expect a Thai hoe to cause. David's multiple lesser injuries could not have been caused by the same weapon.

Anyone who argues that the same single weapon caused completely different injuries to each victim is clearly lying.

The conclusion from the trial report is that it was the hoe and the same single weapon.

Which means the report is wrong.

[berybert]

That's not what I asked.

Do YOU honestly believe that a hoe caused the injuries to both victims?

Yes, because I accept the judgement of the experts, as I pointed out before.

You, on the other hand appear to believe that you know better than the experts that examined the bodies; now if you lot can present actual testimony from an actual forensic expert who actually examined the bodies I will consider that, but so far all you have to show in support of your pet theories is your own uninformed, unsubstantiated, biased and far fetched opinions.

Have you forgotten you tried to convince people a broken bottle had been used to attack David ?

I have a question for you. Your expert mentioned that David's clothes were piled neatly on a rock. Do you believe this or do you believe the pictures you saw with your own eyes of David's clothes being strewn all over the beach ?

[Khun Han]

So now the police didn't even do a test. Just wrote some made up information on a bit of paper.

Except that this test was by pornthip.

I understand better now.

So if someone robbed a bank, but only part of the licence was seen. Then if it was on an island of maybe a thousand people , and of those thousand people 5 had license plates with that number and that letter. If the police went to search each of those 5 people houses. Then in the bushes behind 1 of those houses was a torn up bank bag, from the same bank that had just been robbed. And there was video footage of the plate owner near the bank running around half naked . And none of the other houses had any connection at all to the bank.

Then would it be fair to say, it is highly probable that the person in possession of the bank bag would be a prime suspect.

You obviously didn't follow through on your idea to ask Partington (or follow and read the link provided by jayjay78 on this page), otherwise you wouldn't have posted the above nonsensical analogy. Here is what Partington says in the linked post:

"A Y-chromosome match of 25%, which is being discussed here, means that only one quarter of the markers were the same. This means nothing at all about identification, as the witness said. No markers were readable that excluded the suspect, and a match of one quarter of the markers with the suspect gives no indication at all about whether it is his DNA, because this same match could have been obtained from any random man off the street."

So, apart from the fact that the dna "match" of some mythical DNA recovered from Hannah's body being made after the B2 were arrested, and apart from the fact that the 25% DNA match on the garden hoe was only found by Pornthip's lab during the trial, which makes a nonsense of your 'partial car number plate leading to the door of the B2' analogy, the 25% mach could be to any male on the island, or any male in the world for that matter. That narrows the suspect list down a bit, doesn't it?

And you're getting your CCTV videos mixed up. It was Warot Tuvichien who was caught on video running around half-naked at around the time of the crime. The B3 were caught fully-clothed on a motorsi several hours before the crime.

Just how of the males in the world or on the island for that matter had the victims phone hidden behind his house hmmmm.

Only one.

How many people claimed to be the man in the 'running man' CCTV video. hmmmm.

Only one.

How many civilians were photographed entering and walking around the cordoned-off crime scene. hmmmm

Only one.

How many people refused to hand over CCTV video from AC Bar to the police, claiming it was private property. hmmmm

Only one.

How many people claimed that Warot Tuvichien had returned to Bangkok to attend to his studies, then changed his story to Warot had not been on the island for months (despite photos on Facebook showing him on the island recently). hmmmm

Only one.

How many people failed to come forward in any reasonable timeframe after being named a suspect with evidence linking them to the murders, and this being plastered all over the news. hmmmm

Only one.

I could go on and on and on and on citing suspicious behaviour by the Tuvichiens and their clan linking them to the murder. But you don't want to hear it because it's part of your job to ignore it (the other part being to focus as much discussion, however absurd, on the B3 as possible).

[balo]

I believe that the hoe was used to caused Hannah's severe injuries, it's the type of injury I would expect a Thai hoe to cause. David's multiple lesser injuries could not have been caused by the same weapon.

Anyone who argues that the same single weapon caused completely different injuries to each victim is clearly lying.

The conclusion from the trial report is that it was the hoe and the same single weapon.

Which means the report is wrong.

If the report is wrong you still can't prove it. And since you don't trust any experts in Thailand all we will hear will be speculation against the official reports.

[iReason]

Photo #1:

Top right corner shows the green towel that was placed over Hanna's brutally mutilated head.

It disappeared. Never to be tested for DNA.

And clothing scattered in the crime scene.

Photo #2

Clothing stacked.

Edited January 19, 2016 by iReason

[KunMatt]

I believe that the hoe was used to caused Hannah's severe injuries, it's the type of injury I would expect a Thai hoe to cause. David's multiple lesser injuries could not have been caused by the same weapon.

Anyone who argues that the same single weapon caused completely different injuries to each victim is clearly lying.

The conclusion from the trial report is that it was the hoe and the same single weapon.

Which means the report is wrong.

If the report is wrong you still can't prove it. And since you don't trust any experts in Thailand all we will hear will be speculation against the official reports.

The report is wrong because Hannah had horrific injuries after being hit by the hoe once or twice and David had superficial non-fatal injuries after being hit by something 10 times, he died by being dragged into the sea to drown. So two victims with totally different injuries were clearly not killed by the same weapon.

As as pointed out above, originally the police's story was that David was not killed by the hoe but by a wine bottle.

So the report is wrong and any free thinking person who is allowed to have their own opinion would not agree that the same weapon caused both injuries.

[TheLobster]

There is plenty of proof that the report is wrong..........

No DNA of the accused. No DNA, no DNA, no DNA etc. 25% match is crap otherwise the defense would not have presented the DNA evidence regarding the hoe. Nothing, no proof so how can the B2 have committed murder with the hoe? How can they have been convicted of murder?

Why didn't the prosecution test the hoe? why was the hoe 'the alleged murder weapon' not seized immediately? according to the trial report 'even after the crime has been committed Mr O continued to use the exhibited hoe before it was sent off for examination'

[Khun Han]

There is plenty of proof that the report is wrong..........

No DNA of the accused. No DNA, no DNA, no DNA etc. 25% match is crap otherwise the defense would not have presented the DNA evidence regarding the hoe. Nothing, no proof so how can the B2 have committed murder with the hoe? How can they have been convicted of murder?

Why didn't the prosecution test the hoe? why was the hoe 'the alleged murder weapon' not seized immediately? according to the trial report 'even after the crime has been committed Mr O continued to use the exhibited hoe before it was sent off for examination'

The waters needed to be muddied with regard to the DNA on the hoe. It wasn't seized because it wasn't ready yet

[Chetzee]

what is the likelyhood of being hit 10 times with a weapon that caused flesh injuries , and then not being able to locate the victims DNA on the weapon ? AliG what say u ?

[greenchair]

So now the police didn't even do a test. Just wrote some made up information on a bit of paper.

Except that this test was by pornthip.

I understand better now.

So if someone robbed a bank, but only part of the licence was seen. Then if it was on an island of maybe a thousand people , and of those thousand people 5 had license plates with that number and that letter. If the police went to search each of those 5 people houses. Then in the bushes behind 1 of those houses was a torn up bank bag, from the same bank that had just been robbed. And there was video footage of the plate owner near the bank running around half naked . And none of the other houses had any connection at all to the bank.

Then would it be fair to say, it is highly probable that the person in possession of the bank bag would be a prime suspect.

You obviously didn't follow through on your idea to ask Partington (or follow and read the link provided by jayjay78 on this page), otherwise you wouldn't have posted the above nonsensical analogy. Here is what Partington says in the linked post:

"A Y-chromosome match of 25%, which is being discussed here, means that only one quarter of the markers were the same. This means nothing at all about identification, as the witness said. No markers were readable that excluded the suspect, and a match of one quarter of the markers with the suspect gives no indication at all about whether it is his DNA, because this same match could have been obtained from any random man off the street."

So, apart from the fact that the dna "match" of some mythical DNA recovered from Hannah's body being made after the B2 were arrested, and apart from the fact that the 25% DNA match on the garden hoe was only found by Pornthip's lab during the trial, which makes a nonsense of your 'partial car number plate leading to the door of the B2' analogy, the 25% mach could be to any male on the island, or any male in the world for that matter. That narrows the suspect list down a bit, doesn't it?

And you're getting your CCTV videos mixed up. It was Warot Tuvichien who was caught on video running around half-naked at around the time of the crime. The B3 were caught fully-clothed on a motorsi several hours before the crime.

Just how of the males in the world or on the island for that matter had the victims phone hidden behind his house hmmmm.

Only one.

How many people claimed to be the man in the 'running man' CCTV video. hmmmm.

Only one.

How many civilians were photographed entering and walking around the cordoned-off crime scene. hmmmm

Only one.

How many people refused to hand over CCTV video from AC Bar to the police, claiming it was private property. hmmmm

Only one.

How many people claimed that Warot Tuvichien had returned to Bangkok to attend to his studies, then changed his story to Warot had not been on the island for months (despite photos on Facebook showing him on the island recently). hmmmm

Only one.

How many people failed to come forward in any reasonable timeframe after being named a suspect with evidence linking them to the murders, and this being plastered all over the news. hmmmm

Only one.

I could go on and on and on and on citing suspicious behaviour by the Tuvichiens and their clan linking them to the murder. But you don't want to hear it because it's part of your job to ignore it (the other part being to focus as much discussion, however absurd, on the B3 as possible).

By all means , go on all you like. All of the above may or may not be true. There is no direct link at all to the murders in any of above. Try taking that to an English court lol wouldn't even get up the steps.

As compared to the 2nd defendant testimony. We were right next to the crime scene at the time of the crime. around the same time or a bit later, we decided to go for a swim in early hours even though it was raining. Mysteriously our clothes were all stolen. Then at 5am we went back to the same area to retrieve our belongings that we thought were stolen.

We didn't find our stuff, but I did manage to find the victims phone, which I promptly gave to my friends to get rid of so I wouldn't be accused of the murder I had just heard about. Even though my cigarette butts were found right next to the body and my dna was on that butt and deep inside both cavity of the victim and also a possible match was found on the murder weapon by my own lawyers investigation. Well, it couldn't have been us, because we're so cute.

Try taking that to an English court. Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go.

[jayjay78]

So now the police didn't even do a test. Just wrote some made up information on a bit of paper.

Except that this test was by pornthip.

I understand better now.

So if someone robbed a bank, but only part of the licence was seen. Then if it was on an island of maybe a thousand people , and of those thousand people 5 had license plates with that number and that letter. If the police went to search each of those 5 people houses. Then in the bushes behind 1 of those houses was a torn up bank bag, from the same bank that had just been robbed. And there was video footage of the plate owner near the bank running around half naked . And none of the other houses had any connection at all to the bank.

Then would it be fair to say, it is highly probable that the person in possession of the bank bag would be a prime suspect.

G.C. You go from not understanding this...........

Sorry I'm still a bit confused by.

Cannot be ruled out.

But cannot be included either.

What does it mean? ?

Then have it explained in both layman and detailed terms to then go onto concocting an analogy that is clutching at straws and flawed in maths and reason.

Move on from this 25% match nonsense, even the prosecution did not pursue it due to not being a credible identification measure.

For me I would like to know if this rumor of a 70% match to Mon was correct?

And, which rumors said, had let to Montriwat Tuvichians arrest – with a 70% Match.

[boomerangutang]

That's what the forensic experts determined.

From the verdict report you all are ignoring in favour of your old, tired out speculation:

"The wounds to the head and face of the Second Deceased were all shown to be serious wounds matching the kind of injury that would be incurred by an attack with the blade and handle of the exhibited hoe, as Police Colonel Phawat M.D. and Khunying Pornthip M.D. have testified."

If Dr. Pornthip would have found that Miller's wounds didn't also correspond to the hoe too we would have already heard about it, the conclusion from the report is that:

"The cause of death was determined as the result of head wounds caused by a blunt object.", the same exact wording for both Miller and Witheridge.

No shark teeth rings no "push knives", no bullets; that's why investigators use actual professional pathologists working on actual bodies to find things out, not self styled Internet sleuths looking at a handful of poor quality pictures desperately trying to look smarter and better informed than the professionals handling the actual evidence.

Thai forensics were faulty for too many reasons to list here. If you'd been paying attention and/or seen the photos of David after the crime, you'd know Thai forensics are either inept bumblers or inept connivers taking orders from their higher-ups. Even Pontip, the best in the bunch, missed things, mainly because she was severely restricted in what she was allowed to look at and also because it had been 11 months since the crime. Oh, almost forgot, and things were lost, used-up, or missing thanks to RTP,

And we're still waiting to hear British forensics on David. Not a peep thus far. Here are 3 probable reasons why Brits aren't doing their jobs:

>>> they won't submit evidence in a death penalty case, yet by withholding, they're increasing the chance of executions.

>>> they don't want to embarrass already red-faced Thai officialdom - if they publish findings which (almost certainly will) oppose Thai findings.

>>> they're lazy, similar to the Brit 'experts' who showed up for 4 hours over two days in their non-investigation, and then unwittingly reported false findings to the victims' families.

Just how of the males in the world or on the island for that matter had the victims phone hidden behind his house hmmmm. Only one.

Petty theft at most. Happens thousands of times in Thailand every day. If Wei stole a phone found on a beach, he shouldn't be executed. And what of his friend Zaw - if he didn't find a phone on a beach, should he also be executed?

[somo]

By all means , go on all you like. All of the above may or may not be true. There is no direct link at all to the murders in any of above. Try taking that to an English court lol wouldn't even get up the steps.

As compared to the 2nd defendant testimony. We were right next to the crime scene at the time of the crime. around the same time or a bit later, we decided to go for a swim in early hours even though it was raining. Mysteriously our clothes were all stolen. Then at 5am we went back to the same area to retrieve our belongings that we thought were stolen.

We didn't find our stuff, but I did manage to find the victims phone, which I promptly gave to my friends to get rid of so I wouldn't be accused of the murder I had just heard about. Even though my cigarette butts were found right next to the body and my dna was on that butt and deep inside both cavity of the victim and also a possible match was found on the murder weapon by my own lawyers investigation. Well, it couldn't have been us, because we're so cute.

Try taking that to an English court. Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go.

There you go again making things up. There was no DNA evidence only statements that they had some but it was lost. Take this case to any English court and it would be dismissed and the police investigated for incompetency.

Why do you keep on lying about the non existent DNA evidence?

[boomerangutang]

If Dr. Pornthip would have found that Miller's wounds didn't also correspond to the hoe too we would have already heard about it, the conclusion from the report is that:

If the moon was found to be made of green cheese, then cheese sellers would be up there harvesting it. Makes about as much sense, doesn't it?

Hello AleG: Ms Pontip didn't get to examine David's body.

If Thai authorities wanted to solve this crime (which they obviously don't), they would have appointed Dr. Pontip or someone similarly adept, to head forensics. They didn't, and that's a big reason why the investigation is in the dumps, and hundreds of thousands of keen observers around the world are angry at Thai authorities for orchestrating such a clumsy cover-up.

[DM07]

#1. Is the broken hoe allegedly found at the brutal double murder scene.

#2. Is the hoe presented as evidence.

#2 is not the hoe presented as evidence; you are, quite simply, spreading false information.

Of course you are right AleG!

It was in the evidence- trolley of the RTP, just to remind people what a hoe looks like!

[JLCrab]

<snip>

If Thai authorities wanted to solve this crime (which they obviously don't), they would have appointed Dr. Pontip or someone similarly adept, to head forensics. They didn't, and that's a big reason why the investigation is in the dumps, <snip2>

Maybe the simplest way to solve this crime is not forensics, or DNA, or photo-mass spectrometer analysis but to get the 2 now convicted of this crime to talk more than they have talked if they have anything to talk about -- that always brings up the issue of their continued safety but, if they really had the goods to implicate the 'real killers', their continued safety would already be at issue.

[mrrizzla]

The hoe was reported to have only Hannah's blood and none of David's by RTP's finest. That was the gospel for 11 months, until Ms Pontip found additional DNA. What are RTP's excuses for not finding what Pontip found? Also, how can RTP continue to say the hoe was the murder weapon used on David, when D's blood was not found on it? Perhaps even more indicative of RTP's screwed up forensics: How did they not notice the stab wounds on David's neck and torso? In the RTP report, the only mention of injuries to David was the blunt force trauma on the top of his head. Brit forensics is also remiss for publishing no forensics on David. What official, in Thailand or Britain, is doing a proper job re; the case? Maybe Pontip, though there were holes in what she testified - many things went unmentioned.

And still, no one has even a half baked explanation why some of Hannah's clothing went missing between the time they were gathered at the crime scene, and the trial. Same for the hair. Head cop Somyot, who put himself in charge of the investigation, said emphatically at a press conference in mid-July that "nothing was missing." Is he lying a little of lying big time? Probably the more important question is; 'why is he lying?'. Most of us know why, though it's hard to get statistics when Thai top brass are doing all they can to cover things up. We do know that Somyot was able, with his wife, to plop down a cool $12 million (to buy stocks) a few weeks after he put himself in charge of the investigation. Mr. "clean up corruption" self-appointed MP sees nothing wrong with that, apparently. If he did, he would have spoken up by now, as he's not shy about speaking his mind.

"Mr. "clean up corruption" self-appointed MP sees nothing wrong with that, apparently. If he did, he would have spoken up by now, as he's not shy about speaking his mind."

The Tuvichiens are 'good people'. They helped overthrow those selfish Shins, who were keeping too many 'good people' away from the trough. They are a minor faction of one of the favoured cliques. They are to be looked after in times of trouble (for a fee, of course).

Good family friends with a certain ex deputy prime minister and protest leader too right?

[greenchair]

That's what the forensic experts determined.

From the verdict report you all are ignoring in favour of your old, tired out speculation:

"The wounds to the head and face of the Second Deceased were all shown to be serious wounds matching the kind of injury that would be incurred by an attack with the blade and handle of the exhibited hoe, as Police Colonel Phawat M.D. and Khunying Pornthip M.D. have testified."

If Dr. Pornthip would have found that Miller's wounds didn't also correspond to the hoe too we would have already heard about it, the conclusion from the report is that:

"The cause of death was determined as the result of head wounds caused by a blunt object.", the same exact wording for both Miller and Witheridge.

No shark teeth rings no "push knives", no bullets; that's why investigators use actual professional pathologists working on actual bodies to find things out, not self styled Internet sleuths looking at a handful of poor quality pictures desperately trying to look smarter and better informed than the professionals handling the actual evidence.

Thai forensics were faulty for too many reasons to list here. If you'd been paying attention and/or seen the photos of David after the crime, you'd know Thai forensics are either inept bumblers or inept connivers taking orders from their higher-ups. Even Pontip, the best in the bunch, missed things, mainly because she was severely restricted in what she was allowed to look at and also because it had been 11 months since the crime. Oh, almost forgot, and things were lost, used-up, or missing thanks to RTP,

And we're still waiting to hear British forensics on David. Not a peep thus far. Here are 3 probable reasons why Brits aren't doing their jobs:

>>> they won't submit evidence in a death penalty case, yet by withholding, they're increasing the chance of executions.

>>> they don't want to embarrass already red-faced Thai officialdom - if they publish findings which (almost certainly will) oppose Thai findings.

>>> they're lazy, similar to the Brit 'experts' who showed up for 4 hours over two days in their non-investigation, and then unwittingly reported false findings to the victims' families.

Just how of the males in the world or on the island for that matter had the victims phone hidden behind his house hmmmm. Only one.

Petty theft at most. Happens thousands of times in Thailand every day. If Wei stole a phone found on a beach, he shouldn't be executed. And what of his friend Zaw - if he didn't find a phone on a beach, should he also be executed?

I disagree. I think is significant that Wei had an item belonging to the victim.

It also is significant the time that he stole /found the phone.

It shows he went back to the crime, by his own admission.

All of these anomalies by themselves mean nothing.

But when it is all together, it reaches the realm of coincidental impossibility. I wish people would stop cherry picking.