Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[mrrizzla]

Ahh so the line from the Glee club is now "Laura didn't actually say the verdict was wrong". Yeah so she just posted the link to the anonymous video for a laugh then yeah?

I suspect that she has been 'advised' by the British authorities to go along with the verdict. Kirsty Jones's mother was pretty much told to do the same thing back in 2000 when her daughter was murdered and raped in Chiang Mai and surprise surprise the Thai cops tried to pin it on a poor hill tribesman. It is unsolved to this day and their are strong rumors abound that it was one of their own that did it

You guys in the glee club should be happy. Now your paymasters have to cough up more cash for you.

[berybert]

greenchair, on 02 Jan 2016 - 06:07, said:greenchair, on 02 Jan 2016 - 06:07, said:

Eirene, on 02 Jan 2016 - 05:11, said:Eirene, on 02 Jan 2016 - 05:11, said:

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport.

Wrong again, greenchair. Zaw Lin had the passport, not Wei Phyo. Yet Zaw Lin did not run, as you put it. Why not?

I'm trying to get my head around the fact Greenchair thinks the Burmese legged it away from the murder scene ASAP even forgetting to take their clothes etc.

Yet all the time wandering into the sea for a wash before leaving. Cause they wouldn't have been able to have had a wash at home.

[007cableguy]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Oh dear is that the best you can do?........I'm afraid you have no shame!.....She clearly links the anonymous video which supports the B2

[Loeilad]

What I find so irritating about these threads is that they always seem to descend into the same ol', sameol' discussion about evidence or events.

It really is pretty much irrelevant.

whether these guys actually perpetrated the crime is no longer the issue....or even who else did it....the fact that this trial took place at all is a terrible stain on the Thai justice system. The fact that first there are high-rabnking officials who consider a fair trial hs occured is disturbing and what is even more disturbing is that they feel the death penalty is worth 'reviving" for this incident.

From beginning to end from police right through the legal process the whole matter is open to doubt, procedures and protocols have been breached and yet the Thai authorities feel this was a fair trial......quite unsettling.

Of course there are those whose grasp of what a fair trial may be is so tenuous that they feel that so long a the "right" people are convicted the process is irrelevant.......i'm sorry but this iis a huge mistake.

I suspect the Miller family have been convinced by the authorities that the B2 are guilt so they have not questioned the process it self......this is tragic but understandable.

one also has to consider the in an emotive situation like this the very LAST people you would ask an opinion of are the relatives of the victims - what is needed is a dispassionate viewpoint, hardly what one would expect from those so closely involved

[Bung]

If you transpose the contempt and arrogance evidently shown to the witheridge family by the Thai authorities to those 2 Burmese guys you start to get an idea of how little regard they hold them in.

"What's the fuss?"

[Rob13]

one also has to consider the in an emotive situation like this the very LAST people you would ask an opinion of are the relatives of the victims -

Usually yes but what the sister said in her statement yesterday has enough disturbing accusations that it warrants looking into and could carry alot of weight. The problem though like you say, her statement is far from a 'dispassionate viewpoint' and it's clouded with obvious biases and anger. It'd be good if she could include some hard evidence of some of the things she mentions in her statement and maybe get get someone- an experienced civil rights lawyer or someone in a similar position to help her with her cause.

[lujanit]

Google Unlocking the DNA of doubt.

[Horseman]

I am VERY surprised Thai Visa has not made a new thread and highlighted Laura Witheridge's facebook comments... I was expecting to wake up to it i splashed all over the place...has Thai Visa been silenced ?

[Thesticle]

I just reread Lauras statement and noticed it had changed a bit so I had a look at edit history. So far the statement has been edited eleven times, with the more damning statements that are accusatory left out. I wonder if she had had legal advice on the defamation laws in Thailand. Can you imagine the uproar if she stepped off the plane and was served with a law suit! The cats out of the bag anyhow but its a shame that her statement has been diluted.

[Loeilad]

one also has to consider the in an emotive situation like this the very LAST people you would ask an opinion of are the relatives of the victims -

Usually yes but what the sister said in her statement yesterday has enough disturbing accusations that it warrants looking into and could carry alot of weight. The problem though like you say, her statement is far from a 'dispassionate viewpoint' and it's clouded with obvious biases and anger. It'd be good if she could include some hard evidence of some of the things she mentions in her statement and maybe get get someone- an experienced civil rights lawyer or someone in a similar position to help her with her cause.

OK - you need to look at all this piece by piece.

Laura's post actually does not discuss "evidence" or the trial verdict itself....so I can accept her post more readily than Mr Miller who stated he thought justice has been done. This doesn't present any real argument or analysis or even basic reasoning...it jst backs up the official line with an unsubstantiated statement.

One can easily understand the need for closure and the temptation to believe uncritically the opinions of a highly persuasive cadre of police. prosecution and other interested parties.

How many times have you watched a "crime" TV show when we - the audience - know who the bad guy is but the police "don't have proof" - yet we are quite happy when the police "bend the rules" to secure a conviction? I could easily envisage how a similar scenario might have been presented to the families...some accepted it, others did not.

[Rob13]

I was referring to her receiving death threats and bribes. If she can get someone skilled inn presenting a case and some evidence to back up her accusations,she'd have a strong case. Otherwise she risks her statement being passed over as an emotion fueled rant.

[mrrizzla]

I just reread Lauras statement and noticed it had changed a bit so I had a look at edit history. So far the statement has been edited eleven times, with the more damning statements that are accusatory left out. I wonder if she had had legal advice on the defamation laws in Thailand. Can you imagine the uproar if she stepped off the plane and was served with a law suit! The cats out of the bag anyhow but its a shame that her statement has been diluted.

As I have said before. I really believe like in the case with Kirsty Jones that the British authorities have asked the families to go along with the investigation. They won't say it out loud but this will be for reasons of 'diplomacy'. It makes me sick that my government values this higher than the lives of its citizens. And this from a supposedly 'developed' nation.

But you are right. Laura's unedited statement has been saved and screenshots taken of it and they will be shared on the net a lot over the coming week. Good! Let the spotlight shine harsher on this complete farce. The more scrutiny the more likely that the Thai authorities will have to act.

[Eirene]

You are missing a couple of the responses berybert...sorry.

Ok can someone explain to me what I am missing here ?

[Linky]

I was referring to her receiving death threats and bribes. If she can get someone skilled inn presenting a case and some evidence to back up her accusations,she'd have a strong case. Otherwise she risks her statement being passed over as an emotion fueled rant.

Can we pass over the millers statement as an emotion fueled rant?

[DM07]

Interesting!

When the Millers offered their statement and said, they were happy with the trial and the verdict, the RTP- fanclub wanted to make us believe that the family must have heard something in court...some "magic bullet"...that made the B2 appear guilty beyond any doubt and that justifies a death sentence.

Just like that!

It had to be so, right?!

Now one of the Witheridge- family is coming out with many things, that indicate, this particular family was not that happy, with the handling and the verdict ( why -the fark- else, would she link the Anonymus- video to her statements?)...and now, evidence has to be provided for the death threats and the attempt to silence them and for this that and anything else!

[Linky]

Hannah's sister is quite smart. Complaining to dear general wont work, complaining to rtp wont work, complaining to uk govt or authorities will do nothing.

But post it on facebook and all hell will break loose.

[mrrizzla]

Interesting!

When the Millers offered their statement and said, they were happy with the trial and the verdict, the RTP- fanclub wanted to make us believe that the family must have heard something in court...some "magic bullet"...that made the B2 appear guilty beyond any doubt and that justifies a death sentence.

Just like that!

It had to be so, right?!

Now one of the Witheridge- family is coming out with many things, that indicate, this particular family was not that happy, with the handling and the verdict ( why -the fark- else, would she link the Anonymus- video to her statements?)...and now, evidence has to be provided for the death threats and the attempt to silence them and for this that and anything else!

.

Ironic that isn't it?

The glee club must be having meetings right now to discuss spin strategies.

[Artisi]

I just reread Lauras statement and noticed it had changed a bit so I had a look at edit history. So far the statement has been edited eleven times, with the more damning statements that are accusatory left out. I wonder if she had had legal advice on the defamation laws in Thailand. Can you imagine the uproar if she stepped off the plane and was served with a law suit! The cats out of the bag anyhow but its a shame that her statement has been diluted.

As I have said before. I really believe like in the case with Kirsty Jones that the British authorities have asked the families to go along with the investigation. They won't say it out loud but this will be for reasons of 'diplomacy'. It makes me sick that my government values this higher than the lives of its citizens. And this from a supposedly 'developed' nation.

But you are right. Laura's unedited statement has been saved and screenshots taken of it and they will be shared on the net a lot over the coming week. Good! Let the spotlight shine harsher on this complete farce. The more scrutiny the more likely that the Thai authorities will have to act.

Act, most Thai's think act is singing karaoke in front of a crowd.

[Rob13]

and now, evidence has to be provided for the death threats and the attempt to silence them and for this that and anything else!

Well yeah. without evidence it's just 'He said; She said'. Hard evidence of a bribe and death threats could destroy anything the Thai justice system or RTP has said.

[Eirene]

In a her replies on her face book she confirmed that she reported the threats, also the crime scene photos sent to her. UK police logged into her Facebook and made them disappear but no one was ever punished or held accountable for any of it. Unless they were packing a recording device when offered the bribe there probably would only be their word for it. Not that it makes an iota of difference....I know who I would believe.

I was referring to her receiving death threats and bribes. If she can get someone skilled inn presenting a case and some evidence to back up her accusations,she'd have a strong case. Otherwise she risks her statement being passed over as an emotion fueled rant.

[Loeilad]

I was referring to her receiving death threats and bribes. If she can get someone skilled inn presenting a case and some evidence to back up her accusations,she'd have a strong case. Otherwise she risks her statement being passed over as an emotion fueled rant.

"strong case" for what?

TH trial should never have taken place and procedures were not adhered to....why would they suddenly change that?

I think that in the face of international scrutiny the Thai authorities may be made to feel at some point that in order to save face the sentence needs to be reviewed ..... when in reality a mistrial needs to be declared.

again there seems to be a feeling that if we could prove that there was corrution involved then everything will be OK - of course corruption was involved - it always is in 'Thailand to some degree - it is to be expected.

there is also an attitude that if you can prove someone else did it then they will be released - but again the evidence against anyone else by the very nature of the proceedings would be as corrupted and tainted as it is against the B2

[Rob13]

I know who I would believe.

Probably the same person I would, problem is when you're dealing with the law and international politics you need facts put together with a good spin.It's going to take alot more then 'her going on FB and confirming what she did'. Hopefully she's just getting started and some of the right people will jump on board and help her case against the Thai justice system along. She's got my support,whatever that's worth.

[Artisi]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

"on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.​" -- and how would you know that, has the Village Glee Club been lobbying her and her family and you have been told to butt-out and are now pissed-off and will do everything possible to discredit her statements.

[mrrizzla]

I can well believe she has been harassed by Thais in the UK. Do we all remember the story of Rose the Thai Ex-pat living in the UK that dared to question things about 'the' family of Thailand? She was harassed one idiot DJ that brandished a gun on camera threatening Rose and also some plastic looking High so woman. They both tracked her down, egged and gratified her house (which turned out to be the wrong house).

I can well believe that Mon and family paid off some Ex-pat Thais to threaten the Witheridges. They have proudly mocked the deaths on Koh Tao and threatened lots of other people (including CSI LA).

With the Thai authorities it will be expected that they do nothing but I am going to get really mad if the authorities of my homeland do NOTHING about this.

[AGareth2]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Lobbied by who?

If you really know substantiate your claim please

[DM07]

I've never heard or read anything by Hannah's family saying they were "happy" with the investigation.

Far from it, they said quite opposite and now some facts are coming out it is easy to see why.

How horrific for the police to trick them into attending the a the police HQ for an update only to sell them out..

..... "Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family."

How utterly disgusting and sick.

Coconuts BKK still has the photos on their website. - you can see Hannah's mother cowering away from the camera.

This makes me so sad - Shameful abuse of a grieving mother!

You must be mistaken- there were certain people who posted here again, and again, and again, that the feelings of the families were sacrosanct and they were being abused by those who felt the investigation was lacking. They all seem to have popped out for now, but no doubt they will be back. They have no reason to be ashamed of themselves after all. What say you shills? If you can't swallow giving a well deserved public apology then maybe it is best to be as absent as you are?

Apologies? That would be the people that sway like a feather on the wind, vilifying the Witheridges when they supported the strength of the case then praising them when Hannah's sister says otherwise; and this after spending a couple weeks going after the Millers.

Greenchair is right, the Witheridge family was the target of abusive commentary and hatred, even on this forum, the moment they endorsed the investigation a year ago; I have no doubt the death threats happened in that context, I don't recall the same group that now claim them as their own stepping up to their defense back then.

Laura Witheridge is entitled to her own opinions, on the other hand I know her family has been heavily lobbied by activists to change their view of the case, which they considered extremely damaging to their cause.

Lobbied by who?

If you really know substantiate your claim please

"If you really know..." that was a good one, Gareth!

[Eirene]

I believe the clocks winding down for some folks. There will no doubt be more panic attacks. “tick tock tick tock tick”.

[poohy]

Surely this important topic deserves its own heading rather than being tagged on another.

Its now a major news headline so why not Here?

[Darkknight666]

"Tick Tock Tick Tock"

Indeed.

[Eirene]

There is a thread -> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885838-sister-of-murdered-backpacker-hannah-witheridge-receives-death-threats/

Surely this important topic deserves its own heading rather than being tagged on another.

Its now a major news headline so why not Here?