Koh Tao debacle: Shoddy work from beginning to end

[greenchair]

I am not sure of Mon's complete innocence in all of this at all. However, he was not arrested. He is not in prison and there has been no evidence from the rtp, the UK police, the prosecutor or from the defense to show he had any involvement. Maybe he is tired of having his name and business smeared all over the media, with absolutely nothing to back it up. That family has sued newspapers already and I believe agreed to settle out of court. I think the settlement was in the millions. I am sure there would have been a nondisclosure clause in the agreement.

[rockingrobin]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Greenchair

We have a prosecution witness MM who would appear to support ( with reservations because I have not seen his full testimony ) the claim the guitar was not present.

Greenchair I have approached the trial with a different perspective from most people on this board and quite willing to discuss in PM

[Truth4All]

"The Koh Tao investigation was compromised from the beginning,"

Curiously, the article doesn't mention RTP's misdirection with its early arrest of Brit backpacker Christopher Alanvare for the murders, failed results from DNA samples collected from foreign workers who lived near the murder scene and failure to implicate three Myanmar workers when "interrogation revealed they were not involved in the fatal attack."

Seemingly, these initial investigative failures set the stage for the RTP to lose control of the murder scene, chain of evidence and (mostly importantly) face. The article further does not mention Prayut's involvement in the case when he declared that "no Thais would have committed the murders" and rewarded the RTP with cash for their quick arrest of the 2 Burmese and their confessions. It is then that it seems any further objective investigation was lost.

YEAH! Once the Big Boss says everything is all right, that's the "Final"word for all the sheep to follow. They would all sooner deny reality than possibly lose Face.

[Khun Han]

There you go Robin. Wei Phyo or win. Was court on the mainland of suri Thani attempting to leave the country . You know Wei Phyo, the one that had David's phone and tried to get rid of it. The one that left his shoes behind meters from the crime and went back to get at 5 o'clock in the morning. If I was Zaw Lin I'd be asking for a separate trial

Wei Phyo was not arrested trying to cross any borders. He was arrested at a port on the mainland, disembarking a ferry from Koh Tao. If you have some proof that he was travelling to a border crossing, you should provide it. If not, you should not present your speculation as established fact. That could be construed as you being disingenuous.

[greenchair]

There you go Robin. Wei Phyo or win. Was court on the mainland of suri Thani attempting to leave the country . You know Wei Phyo, the one that had David's phone and tried to get rid of it. The one that left his shoes behind meters from the crime and went back to get at 5 o'clock in the morning. If I was Zaw Lin I'd be asking for a separate trial

Wei Phyo was not arrested trying to cross any borders. He was arrested at a port on the mainland, disembarking a ferry from Koh Tao. If you have some proof that he was travelling to a border crossing, you should provide it. If not, you should not present your speculation as established fact. That could be construed as you being disingenuous.

I stand corrected, he was arrested having already left the island and on the mainland going to hmmmm where might he be going after he just heard that both of his friends had been arrested? ??

[Khun Han]

Hmmm.....Had he heard that both his friends had been arrested, or is that more speculation? He claimed to be travelling to find a new job in Chumphon, I believe. Quite a sensible move in view of the fact that several members of his community on Koh Tao had claimed to have been abducted, beaten and had boiling water poured over them by the police in the days previous.

[greenchair]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Greenchair

We have a prosecution witness MM who would appear to support ( with reservations because I have not seen his full testimony ) the claim the guitar was not present.

Greenchair I have approached the trial with a different perspective from most people on this board and quite willing to discuss in PM

Please pm me as I tried to pm but not success.

I am not that sure I believe mm at the moment either.

"I was with my girlfriend "

Girlfriend lie all the time.

Andy posted on his fb that they went looking for the guitar, but could not find it. But presented in court, it was found exactly where they previously looked.

Still there are many questions about their story. It doesn't add up at all.

[greenchair]

Hmmm.....Had he heard that both his friends had been arrested, or is that more speculation? He claimed to be travelling to find a new job in Chumphon, I believe. Quite a sensible move in view of the fact that several members of his community on Koh Tao had claimed to have been abducted, beaten and had boiling water poured over them by the police in the days previous.

Hmmm and he forgot to inform anyone that he had the phone that belonged to the victim. That he found while he was looking for his shoes that he left at the crime scene. So I guess he did have good reason to be afraid. Afraid he was going to get caught now that things were heating up.

[Khun Han]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Greenchair

We have a prosecution witness MM who would appear to support ( with reservations because I have not seen his full testimony ) the claim the guitar was not present.

Greenchair I have approached the trial with a different perspective from most people on this board and quite willing to discuss in PM

It's my view that the B2 may have witnessed the murders and/or been coerced by the real perps into helping with the immediate cover up.

It's my view that they would have been 'suicided' long ago had this case not attracted so much international attention.

It's also my view that they are keeping schtum about what really happened because so long as there is an appeal process in front of them they have hope. But if they so much as threaten to reveal the truth of this case they will be dead within hours, because self-preservation of influential people massively trumps international loss of face over the deaths in custody of the B2.

Like I said, just my opinions.

[Eirene]

Hmmm.....Had he heard that both his friends had been arrested, or is that more speculation? He claimed to be travelling to find a new job in Chumphon, I believe. Quite a sensible move in view of the fact that several members of his community on Koh Tao had claimed to have been abducted, beaten and had boiling water poured over them by the police in the days previous.

Hmmm and he forgot to inform anyone that he had the phone that belonged to the victim. That he found while he was looking for his shoes that he left at the crime scene. So I guess he did have good reason to be afraid. Afraid he was going to get caught now that things were heating up.

greenchair - On October 21st., 2014 Wai Phyo reported that he found items allegedly belonging to the victim.

21st Oct: Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo retract their confessions to lawyers from the Lawyers Council of Thailand

(LCT) at Koh Samui prison. Both allege beatings and torture in order to elicit the confessions and assert

innocence against all charges. Both allege that on the night of the killings, they were merely playing their

guitar, singing, drinking and relaxing on Sairee beach. Wai Phyo reported that he simply came across

possessions allegedly belonging to the deceased that. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo petition Koh Samui

Prosecutors Office and the Attorney General calling for reconsideration of their prosecution

This can be found at the top of page 10 in the pre-trial briefing .pdf file. you can locate this file by googling Koh Tao pre trial briefing.

It was Maung Maung who lost his sandals not Wai Phyo.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant and MAT representative Kyaw Thaung both confirmed to DVB that Maung Maung had told the embassy team that he had witnessed Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun in bed sleeping when he returned to the room at 5am and that nothing seemed suspicious.

According to Kyaw Thaung: “Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, ‘Where is the guitar?’ at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, ‘because they were expensive – 350 baht’, he said.

“Maung Maung confirmed that it was the three of them who appeared riding a motorbike in the CCTV camera footage – Zaw Lin, the bike’s owner, in front; himself in the middle; and Win Zaw Htun on the back,” said Kyaw Thaung. “He also confirmed they had bought cigarettes and three bottles of beer at a convenience store.

“He [Muang Maung] said he did not know what happened afterwards, and that when he returned to the room there was nothing to suggest that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun had committed murder.”

Spinning in circles once again!

[Eirene]

edit: Apologies - Too late to edit post. - That should have been bottom of page nine. The info regarding the phone was brought up at the preliminary witness hearing on Oct.14th., 2014.

14th Oct: Koh Samui Court holds a preliminary witness hearing for 3 Myanmar prosecution witnesses at
risk of disappearing. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo attend and are represented by lawyers from the Lawyers
Council of Thailand (LCT). The witnesses testify: (1) Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were on Sairee Beach on 14th
Sept. night close to the place where the bodies of Hannah and David were found; (2) Wai Phyo came
across a mobile phone he said he found that may have belonged to David but passed it onto his friend. No
other evidence presented at this hearing linked Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the murders.

[greenchair]

edit: Apologies - Too late to edit post. - That should have been bottom of page nine. The info regarding the phone was brought up at the preliminary witness hearing on Oct.14th., 2014.

14th Oct: Koh Samui Court holds a preliminary witness hearing for 3 Myanmar prosecution witnesses at

risk of disappearing. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo attend and are represented by lawyers from the Lawyers

Council of Thailand (LCT). The witnesses testify: (1) Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were on Sairee Beach on 14th

Sept. night close to the place where the bodies of Hannah and David were found; (2) Wai Phyo came

across a mobile phone he said he found that may have belonged to David but passed it onto his friend. No

other evidence presented at this hearing linked Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the murders.

According to your first post above,they changed their mind about confession on 21st. By this time the media had created all sorts of arguments for them. They have latched on to all of it. We all thought the phone was a plant by police. None of us knew until the last day of court that Wei Phyo himself says he found the phone and concealed it knowingly. We all thought wp was woken up. But we never knew both mm and wp went back to the beach at 5 am. In your post he says he found the phone at night. But another says he found it in the morning. Mm shoes, wp shoes, guitar at beach, guitar at ac bar ? ??? Who knows.

Here is the fact. The murders are estimated anywhere between 1am and 5 am.

The 3 burmese were right next to the crime and Hannah would have had to pass by them to get to room.

They left belongings at or near the crime.

They went back to retrieve belongings.

They had the victims phone.

They tried to get rid of phone.

They detroyed phone.

They hid phone. And kept quiet about it a very long time.

The media has come up with a new story. They are frightened, and were forced to take part in this crime. Now they are afraid to identify the real killers. New letter from burmese community now using this story. It is us that are feeding these outlandish stories.

Most people currently believe they were there.

[Khun Han]

Why don't you shine your cynicism on the behaviour of certain influential people on Koh Tao Greenchair? You will find the discrepancies, changes in story/alibi, difficult to explain away associated behaviour, that you are desperate to pick out of the B2's story multiplied a hundred fold. And for someone who, according to Brit Tim, has followed this case closely from the beginning, you get an awful lot of basic facts wrong. And always wrong in a way that discredits the B2.

[Eirene]

We knew about the phone after the preliminary hearing...remember this?

Maung Maung, Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were called as prosecution witnesses on Tuesday and gave testimonies in a preliminary hearing at a courthouse in Koh Samui, southern Thailand.

Moe Wai, a member of the Burmese embassy delegation that attended the hearing, said Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were mostly quizzed about a mobile phone belonging to one of the victims. The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said.

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

[Artisi]

Why don't you shine your cynicism on the behaviour of certain influential people on Koh Tao Greenchair? You will find the discrepancies, changes in story/alibi, difficult to explain away associated behaviour, that you are desperate to pick out of the B2's story multiplied a hundred fold. And for someone who, according to Brit Tim, has followed this case closely from the beginning, you get an awful lot of basic facts wrong. And always wrong in a way that discredits the B2.

A good comment, however - the best solution is to ignore him and others of his ilk as I'm sure they have an agenda to address.

It's always the B2 this the B2, the B2 are guilty adinfinitum.

Have you heard one word about the "special" people of Koh Tao, the police etc. or the complete screw-up of the investigation - - no? and you won't....

[greenchair]

We knew about the phone after the preliminary hearing...remember this?

Maung Maung, Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were called as prosecution witnesses on Tuesday and gave testimonies in a preliminary hearing at a courthouse in Koh Samui, southern Thailand.

Moe Wai, a member of the Burmese embassy delegation that attended the hearing, said Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were mostly quizzed about a mobile phone belonging to one of the victims. The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said.

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

I'm a bit confused with the names.

Muang Muang. I know.

Are Zaw Lin and Nyi Aung.

Different from the b2

[greenchair]

Why don't you shine your cynicism on the behaviour of certain influential people on Koh Tao Greenchair? You will find the discrepancies, changes in story/alibi, difficult to explain away associated behaviour, that you are desperate to pick out of the B2's story multiplied a hundred fold. And for someone who, according to Brit Tim, has followed this case closely from the beginning, you get an awful lot of basic facts wrong. And always wrong in a way that discredits the B2.

Nothing that I want more than to be corrected. I want them to be innocent as much as anybody else. But not if they had anything at all to do with it. This was a brutal crime. Those 2 were British citizens. And they were good people. David just finished his degree ready to do a masters. Hannah such a beautiful person, dragged through the mud for no reason. Some people enjoying talking about the different ways she must have consented to what happened.

Once there is a link between them and the victims their story is up for scrutiny, just like mon and the rest of them

The b2 story does not add up.

Neither does Mon's.

My guess is the truth is somewhere in between.

[greenchair]

We knew about the phone after the preliminary hearing...remember this?

Maung Maung, Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were called as prosecution witnesses on Tuesday and gave testimonies in a preliminary hearing at a courthouse in Koh Samui, southern Thailand.

Moe Wai, a member of the Burmese embassy delegation that attended the hearing, said Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were mostly quizzed about a mobile phone belonging to one of the victims. The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said.

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

Yes, we did know about it. But for some reason it got bandied around that the phone was planted by police. Then everyone was saying it wasn't David's phone. Only on the last day, did I know that the phone was certainly in the hands of b2. That it was supposedly picked up at 5am. And that it does belong to David.

The new story is mon gave it to wp, and Wei Phyo is afraid to tell as he might get killed.

[Khun Han]

^^@ Greenchair. But all of your focus is on the B2, to the point of endlessly getting facts wrong in your zeal to find them guilty. Train your focus on the Koh Tao Mafia, and all the little pieces (such as the B2) will eventually fall into place.

[Lingba]

Shoddy work..No Sh*t!...problem is the Thai Authorities standing behind this BS continue to think that the world is going to go along without question with their decisions on this case...Well Wake Up and understand that the world is tired of your smiling lies and deceipt...Its been going on far too long

[Slip]

The Bangkok Post is all this today. One or two interesting articles.

[AleG]

We knew about the phone after the preliminary hearing...remember this?

Maung Maung, Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were called as prosecution witnesses on Tuesday and gave testimonies in a preliminary hearing at a courthouse in Koh Samui, southern Thailand.

Moe Wai, a member of the Burmese embassy delegation that attended the hearing, said Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were mostly quizzed about a mobile phone belonging to one of the victims. The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said.

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

Yes, we did know about it. But for some reason it got bandied around that the phone was planted by police. Then everyone was saying it wasn't David's phone. Only on the last day, did I know that the phone was certainly in the hands of b2. That it was supposedly picked up at 5am. And that it does belong to David.

The new story is mon gave it to wp, and Wei Phyo is afraid to tell as he might get killed.

The new story by who? The same people that were going on about how the police planted Hannah's phone?

The same people that have tried to drag Mon and his nephew into their conspiracy theories? The same people that now tell you you have an agenda?; it's all nonsense.

[Basil B]

I would not call it "Shoddy"

It was a fine bit of stitching up...

[rockingrobin]

We knew about the phone after the preliminary hearing...remember this?

Maung Maung, Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were called as prosecution witnesses on Tuesday and gave testimonies in a preliminary hearing at a courthouse in Koh Samui, southern Thailand.

Moe Wai, a member of the Burmese embassy delegation that attended the hearing, said Nyi Nyi Aung and Aung Zaw Lin were mostly quizzed about a mobile phone belonging to one of the victims. The pair testified that they were given the phone by the suspects and decided to smash it with a hammer after being unable to use it, he said.

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

I'm a bit confused with the names.

Muang Muang. I know.

Are Zaw Lin and Nyi Aung.

Different from the b2

Greenchair as promised I will respond either late today or tomorrow

There is a total of 5 Burmese , the 2 accused , MM and 3 friends Are Zaw Lin and Nyi Aung

To an earlier post , the B2 have not changed their statement ( maybee peoples intepretation have ), they have not claimed anything was found by them in the morning, the guitar which MM went looking for was found by Mons Chef / Uncle ? ( court testimony) , but if we are to believe TV pictures it was handed over to police some time later .

The phone accusation of a plant came about because of the RTP statement it was Hannah's

There is also the 2nd phone which was found by the clocktower , in some circles suggested it belonged to David.

With regards to the phone presented in court ( apple iphone ), I understand there is some discrepencies with the description given by the Burnese friends who smashed and discarded it ( I still need further citation on this)

[TheLobster]

Are we allowed to post a link to CSI LA's facebook page?

He was sent a threatening message from Mon. Why is Mon threatening people if he has nothing to hide

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

Mafia, this low scum wouldn't even rate as mafia shoe soles. They are just thugs, low-lifes, the dregs of society dressed up as someone special. Without their ill gotten money they would now be in the position of the B2, where by rights they should be now....

And of course the most public piece of threatening was with Sean MacAnna.

It does seem that Sean knows a lot about what went on that night but is a coward who doesn't seem interested in ensuring justice is served or was indeed involved.

[mrrizzla]

Since day one threats have been made against journalists in Thailand and other sovereign states by the Koh Tao mafia. Andy Hall and the defense team have been threatened, a taxi driver on Koh Tao was not only threatened but physically assualted because he refused to perjure himself, interpreters were threatened. People ask why all the threats? The answer, because that is how a mafia operates.

Mafia, this low scum wouldn't even rate as mafia shoe soles. They are just thugs, low-lifes, the dregs of society dressed up as someone special. Without their ill gotten money they would now be in the position of the B2, where by rights they should be now....

And of course the most public piece of threatening was with Sean MacAnna.

It does seem that Sean knows a lot about what went on that night but is a coward who doesn't seem interested in ensuring justice is served or was indeed involved.

Just watching the Anonymous video. They just covered Sean saying that he had contacted them but didn't really offer anything of use in his answers when they asked him questions.

Is Mon gonna threaten Anonymous now?

[Trouble]

I think what needs to happen is that Facebook and twitter posters from outside Thailand, those who have no intention of traveling to Thailand, start massive anti government/RTP postings on every Thai government Facebook/twitter account they can get into. Let the damn police try to start tracking all of them down. Imagine how furious the little general would be.

[greenchair]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Greenchair

We have a prosecution witness MM who would appear to support ( with reservations because I have not seen his full testimony ) the claim the guitar was not present.

Greenchair I have approached the trial with a different perspective from most people on this board and quite willing to discuss in PM

See robyn I am uncertain about mm also. that is why lately, I have been referring to them as the b3. He was with them at the beginning of the night. His shoes were left at the scene, he went back to retrieve his belongings at 5am. And he was with wp around the time wp supposedly found David's phone. His alibi "I was with my girlfriend " would not be enough in a western court to counter the events of the night. Maybe he had some other evidence to back his alibi. I don't know. Presently he remains suspect in my mind.

[rockingrobin]

Well it is quite possible that he did find the phone...I will give him the benefit of the doubt. What I have a lot of trouble with is the staged crime scene. I cannot get my head around the fact that these two had the wherewithal to stage that scene. They would have panicked after realizing the enormity of what they had done and ran for the hills. It takes a certain type of person to stage a crime scene...for instance a cool headed police officer. Also why were all those facebook timelines of certain people attached to a certain family totally scrubbed of everything from September through to about [iIRC] December? Rather odd behavior for the all about ME generation. I'm afraid there are still more questions than answers regarding this absolute farce of an investigation and do not believe that this case proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the two Burmese.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the families of David and Hannah as well as the families of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo.

Well Irene, I absolutely agree with you on all points. I am saying that their story needs a going over, including the anomalies already being presented against ac bar. I thought about the staging of Hannah. It would not surprise me one bit that someone saw her lying there and changed her position as some kind of situation sick look at the easy foreign girl thing. If you live in Thailand, you know there is a lot of advertising portraying foreign girls in a very sexist way. You are absolutely right. It looks like they high tailed it out of there and went back at 5 am to retrieve the stuff they left behind. This story fits more with their story. A group of them grabbed hannah, raped her. David stumbled onto it, all hell broke lose. Hannah tried to run, hit with hoe. 2 or more overpowered David and stabbed him. Then dragged him down to the water. Those boys ran. Stopped on the way went swim wash blood off. Went back room. Woke up 5 o'clock, went to get stuff left behind. Could not get because many people about. Found phone near crime. Went back room. Hid phone. Wei Phyo tried to leave island because he had passport. Zaw Lin could not. Because not passport. Certainly still possible that mon and his group are involved. But the b2 certainly can no longer be excluded.

Greenchair

We have a prosecution witness MM who would appear to support ( with reservations because I have not seen his full testimony ) the claim the guitar was not present.

Greenchair I have approached the trial with a different perspective from most people on this board and quite willing to discuss in PM

See robyn I am uncertain about mm also. that is why lately, I have been referring to them as the b3. He was with them at the beginning of the night. His shoes were left at the scene, he went back to retrieve his belongings at 5am. And he was with wp around the time wp supposedly found David's phone. His alibi "I was with my girlfriend " would not be enough in a western court to counter the events of the night. Maybe he had some other evidence to back his alibi. I don't know. Presently he remains suspect in my mind.

I am under the impression it was W.Phyo claimed his shoes and clothing were missing along with MM guitar. There is cctv to support MM testimony and the RTP obviously were happy with is account. Therefore since MM and Wei testimony are consistent this raises some other questions namely about the guitar.

[Isitjustme]

Phenomenal article!

It goes further than many other articles and even comments by many posters. I won't be a bit surprised if the junta goes ballistic over this article. I won't be a bit surprised if they try to hunt down the author and do a lot more than take him or her for an attitude adjustment. And I will bet the Nation comes under fire.

I applaud the author for writing it, I applaud the "The Nation" for publishing it and I applaud ThaiVisa for reprinting it.

Thank heaven for people still willing to stand-up for TRUTH!

Hear hear Well said.