Chiang Mai New Year what's it cost to live here a month thread

[bangmai]

When I lived in CM, I did the normal massages for 150 to 200 baht (one hour). Is this still the going rate? curious on inflation.

My answer to OP:

12,000 baht if really, really just trying to not die and have roof over your head.

20,000 to struggle, watch prices, keep count of daily spending

30,000 to live slightly below average farang, but you won't feel as stressed as long as this is an annuity (doesn't run out)

40,000 to live

60,000 to live and enjoy like a middle-class westerner

90,000 to live like upper middle-class

One of the better answers I've seen in response to this question.

(Thai massage is still readily available for 180-200 thb.)

Upper middle class.. Say BMW or range rover etc.. 2nd car for the wife..

Aint happening on 90k..

Gold chains; no brains......

[ardokano]

Gold chains; no brains......

Why you say this is?

Gold chains it low cost. how much is it? And its can be investing.

Just can be realy bad taste if its big gold chains.

But about car. Its comfort of life. So it only you CAN get. You have choice. And yes!! People who can it get - midl-class and upper midle-class.

So people who like c omfort and can earn money for comfort -No brains?

Ha Ha.

Edited January 2, 2016 by ardokano

[bangmai]

People who waste money on impractical things are only kidding themselves. Range Rover.....garbage, BMW, unreliable, expensive to repair, depreciates rapidly, and subject to absurd import taxes. It's not comfort; it's pretentious. Buying stuff like that on credit: idiotic. In Scottsdale they are known as 30K per year millionaires, which would be close to the incomes of some of the buyer's here. BMW does not market to the wealthy; they market to those who are willing to go into debt to pretend.

[ardokano]

People who waste money on impractical things are only kidding themselves. Range Rover.....garbage, BMW, unreliable, expensive to repair, depreciates rapidly, and subject to absurd import taxes. It's not comfort; it's pretentious. Buying stuff like that on credit: idiotic. In Scottsdale they are known as 30K per year millionaires, which would be close to the incomes of some of the buyer's here. BMW does not market to the wealthy; they market to those who are willing to go into debt to pretend.

Welthy?

Its you opinion garbage.

But have anothyer, and We not about tax and cost.

What expensive in repair? Not have garanty?

Ubsurd tax its may be. What why can say for upper midle-class in Thailand its highest cost than Europe or US.

Credit or not its choice, But its not be down cost use if buy by credit. And cost use BMW in Thailand 300-600k per year( lost price in my opinion it cost of use).

PS

We not talking about HOW is buy and about credit , its another topic.

SO you say BMW its not for use upper midle-class?

I speak only of the possibility of choice, and not the advantages and disadvantages of a particular brand of car.

Can buy its not mean MUST buy.

[mr chow]

Whatever you number.....double it if you have a Thai wife/girlfriend.

[LivinLOS]

BMW does not market to the wealthy; they market to those who are willing to go into debt to pretend.

Yeah the i8 is just pretense.. The 7 series interior is naff and fake..

The point was.. Someone is claiming 'upper middle class' at a price point and personally I dont think its a reasonable one.. So then you have to define upper middle class a bit. I am not saying Ferrari Lambo or mansions, but something as simple as a decent mid level german car is a pretty low end level of comfort and quality to aspire to. Its barely even middle class let alone upper middle class.

It has nothing to do with going into debt, nothing to do with people living beyond thier means, we are discussing how much means are needed for that standard.

Lots of aspects about my own life cost much more here in asia than they would in the UK, my clothes, my wine and beer, cars, electronics, audio and home theater, motorbikes, and all the bits to go with those things etc etc.. Other aspects cost much less a nice home with pool, entertaining girlfriends, eating out, having services like gardeners and pool guys, etc.. The biggie being not doing tax returns.

Low quality items are cheap here, but you only have to go a little bit up the value chain for items to cost more than the west, and going small steps up the list they suddenly become many multiples more expensive, not a few % but 100s of %. Recognizing that fact doesnt somehow make you shallow, or as implied some desperate need to show crass faux wealth, its just a recognition of the cost here. Here I drive a Toyota, back in the west I would have a Beemer Audi or Merc, fairly normal middle class things, nothing especially flash IMO.

[flyDelight]

Budget 55000 per month

5500 for rent of a big apartment incl internet.

10000 for my girl, she's more then worth it, saves most of it and presents for her family.

15000 for my girl she pays all the monthly shopping, food, laundry, bike gasoline etc. but excl. drinks and insurances.

4500 for utilities, clothes, hardware, gym, massage etc.

20000 for saving, no problem.

I don't care about food at western restaurants but having great food everyday at a few selected places, we both don't drink alcohol other then some wine.

When I was on my own I spent way more that but with my gf I found a good balance.

[LannaGuy]

People who waste money on impractical things are only kidding themselves. Range Rover.....garbage, BMW, unreliable, expensive to repair, depreciates rapidly, and subject to absurd import taxes. It's not comfort; it's pretentious. Buying stuff like that on credit: idiotic. In Scottsdale they are known as 30K per year millionaires, which would be close to the incomes of some of the buyer's here. BMW does not market to the wealthy; they market to those who are willing to go into debt to pretend.

that's not really fair now im older i like to get a nice car and i can now afford it

lets get back on topic

[LannaGuy]

Budget 55000 per month

5500 for rent of a big apartment incl internet.

10000 for my girl, she's more then worth it, saves most of it and presents for her family.

15000 for my girl she pays all the monthly shopping, food, laundry, bike gasoline etc. but excl. drinks and insurances.

4500 for utilities, clothes, hardware, gym, massage etc.

20000 for saving, no problem.

I don't care about food at western restaurants but having great food everyday at a few selected places, we both don't drink alcohol other then some wine.

When I was on my own I spent way more that but with my gf I found a good balance.

I would say this seems typical.. around 60k for a nice life style I get more than that in income but spend around 50 to 60 myself (not including large purchases holidays etc.)

[bangmai]

So an individual needs to make more than three times the average household to be "middle class"? That's just plain irrational. Or is this more of the: "they are only Thai choir"? Other than first timers, it's really easy to get the same prices for goods and services as the locals. If they try to treat me differently; I vote with my feet. There is a famous book titled: The Millionaire Next Door, and the theme is that wealthy people don't dress and act like EuroTrash at South Beach or Puerto Rican coke dealers. Real wealth is often inconspicuous.

[chiang mai]

65k a month for recurring standard costs, one off annual costs and cap/ex are additional, two people, no rent, two vehicles.

[baywatch82]

Whatever you number.....double it if you have a Thai wife/girlfriend.

Really ? Since I have Thai gf I spend much less money than I was single :D less tinder dating, less hookers and less alcohol ...

[ardokano]

So an individual needs to make more than three times the average household to be "middle class"? That's just plain irrational. Or is this more of the: "they are only Thai choir"? Other than first timers, it's really easy to get the same prices for goods and services as the locals. If they try to treat me differently; I vote with my feet. There is a famous book titled: The Millionaire Next Door, and the theme is that wealthy people don't dress and act like EuroTrash at South Beach or Puerto Rican coke dealers. Real wealth is often inconspicuous.

Its not irrational, its life. Evry coutry diffirent % midle-class, some country it be near o!!! only poor or rich.

Some country averge houshold its to far from midle-class. Even some times low midle class fAAAr from upper midle class

But its nothig to change. Midle-class and upper midle-class CAN (not must) buy some luxury brand , can suport children in many WORLD university and many another thinks

Its kind WORLD standards middle class.

But ofcouse have some domestics reality, and its FOR domestic people.

We not Thai. May be ( i not say it realy) Fortuner or Camry its top of dreams and may be its luxury car. But in another country its only NORMAL car for ANY people who work and can get some professional skills.

And do not know what about you talking , different cultiral differend needs.

Some like buy wine 300-1000 $ per botle becouse LIKE taste this is vine, some becouse its have upper price. This is talkin only about culture people and HOW educated. And not talking any about what kind class and income.

[ardokano]

65k a month for recurring standard costs, one off annual costs and cap/ex are additional, two people, no rent, two vehicles.

Just ask. In cost you do not inclusive price two vehicles? You get it free?

Or inclusive?

[bangmai]

Those Range Rovers are very reliable:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/land_rover.html

and I hope your backup isn't a BMW.....http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw.html

Edited January 2, 2016 by bangmai

[orang37]

Not trying to argue or claim your wrong but..

...

I find budgets like that kind of mind blowing..

Sawdusted Cupcakes, Khun LivinLOS,

I am so frequently wrong, even though I am right-handed, that it never bothers me when someone looks askance, even if they are looking right in my eyes.

And, indeed, without mind-blowing (not involving drugs, alcohol, or local hooch of cooch) we could not live on the budget described, and, before we became what we are now, we did not live in such frugality. Having no effective taste-buds helps out there, rendering the meat-package (now amicably) divorced from food.

But, one must always ask: is the experience of the miraculous in ordinary consequent on temporararily abandoning discriminant attention, and the intentionality that shapes and focuses it, really a "mind blowing," or is it experience of the simplicity veiled behind the usual ego-clutter-clatter business ? Is to ask that question to answer it ?

cheers ~o:37;

[Aussie69]

[

Sawdusted Cupcakes, Khun LivinLOS,

I am so frequently wrong, even though I am right-handed, that it never bothers me when someone looks askance, even if they are looking right in my eyes.

And, indeed, without mind-blowing (not involving drugs, alcohol, or local hooch of cooch) we could not live on the budget described, and, before we became what we are now, we did not live in such frugality. Having no effective taste-buds helps out there, rendering the meat-package (now amicably) divorced from food.

But, one must always ask: is the experience of the miraculous in ordinary consequent on temporararily abandoning discriminant attention, and the intentionality that shapes and focuses it, really a "mind blowing," or is it experience of the simplicity veiled behind the usual ego-clutter-clatter business ? Is to ask that question to answer it ?

cheers ~o:37;

Huh?

[JaseTheBass]

So an individual needs to make more than three times the average household to be "middle class"? That's just plain irrational. Or is this more of the: "they are only Thai choir"? Other than first timers, it's really easy to get the same prices for goods and services as the locals. If they try to treat me differently; I vote with my feet. There is a famous book titled: The Millionaire Next Door, and the theme is that wealthy people don't dress and act like EuroTrash at South Beach or Puerto Rican coke dealers. Real wealth is often inconspicuous.

Middle class Thais generally make decent money. 60k to a lot more...

[ardokano]

Those Range Rovers are very reliable:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/land_rover.html

and I hope your backup isn't a BMW.....http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw.html

So what ? As it explains that upper midle-class CAN get.

Ok, no BMW, Lexus ita fine? its stell cant be in budget even 100k.

Porsche?

PS

How many BMW you had? More than 0?

i can say how many truble i get with camry on 20k, 30k, 60k km

Lexus RX 300 and GS

but its nothing can say about brand

[chiang mai]

65k a month for recurring standard costs, one off annual costs and cap/ex are additional, two people, no rent, two vehicles.

Just ask. In cost you do not inclusive price two vehicles? You get it free?

Or inclusive?

I don't understand your question! My figure of 65K per month includes the running costs of two vehicles, petrol/diesel, maintenance etc but not buying cost, does that answer?

[Happy Grumpy]

100k baht p/m should see you do okay with no dependents.

[ardokano]

I don't understand your question! My figure of 65K per month includes the running costs of two vehicles, petrol/diesel, maintenance etc but not buying cost, does that answer?

Yes. Thank you for ansver.

But in my opinion buying cost or how much lost price per year (month) your vehicles need add to budget.

Ofcouse if vehicles not get for FREE

Cheers

[chiang mai]

I don't understand your question! My figure of 65K per month includes the running costs of two vehicles, petrol/diesel, maintenance etc but not buying cost, does that answer?

Yes. Thank you for ansver.

But in my opinion buying cost or how much lost price per year (month) your vehicles need add to budget.

Ofcouse if vehicles not get for FREE

Cheers

Not too many people want to compile a personal expenses budget that includes full depreciation of capital expenses I certainly don't. But if I were to have done so it would show that the CRV I bought new at a 2005 exchange rate made a profit when sold seven years later, a function of exchange rates and a high value second hand car market at the time. Ditto a condo that was bought and sold under similar circumstances, if those things were fully amortized and included in my personal budget, my living expenses would be less than half of what they actually are, a massive distortion of the facts.

[Mousehound]

I don't understand your question! My figure of 65K per month includes the running costs of two vehicles, petrol/diesel, maintenance etc but not buying cost, does that answer?

Yes. Thank you for ansver.

But in my opinion buying cost or how much lost price per year (month) your vehicles need add to budget.

Ofcouse if vehicles not get for FREE

Cheers

Not too many people want to compile a personal expenses budget that includes full depreciation of capital expenses I certainly don't. But if I were to have done so it would show that the CRV I bought new at a 2005 exchange rate made a profit when sold seven years later, a function of exchange rates and a high value second hand car market at the time. Ditto a condo that was bought and sold under similar circumstances, if those things were fully amortized and included in my personal budget, my living expenses would be less than half of what they actually are, a massive distortion of the facts.

And of course this can work in reverse. Depends if your funds are locally obtained or imported. You are in effect at the whim or at least playing the exchange market.

[LivinLOS]

So an individual needs to make more than three times the average household to be "middle class"? That's just plain irrational. Or is this more of the: "they are only Thai choir"?

Comparing western middle class living standards with 'average' developing world wages is apples to oranges..

[bangmai]

Guess what? You're not in the West. So it would seem that you are the one comparing apples to oranges. Every nationality does not bring their definition of middle class with them to Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

Guess what? You're not in the West. So it would seem that you are the one comparing apples to oranges. Every nationality does not bring their definition of middle class with them to Thailand.

And yet here we are, all non Thais and almost all 'westerners' of one stripe or another posting in the discussion. In fact even the precise statement being quibbled states 'westerner'..

60,000 to live and enjoy like a middle-class westerner

90,000 to live like upper middle-class

So your claim that wasnt a 'western' standard being discussed doesnt really stand up to scrutiny does it ?? Its not a Thai standard hes mentioning.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with cutting ones coat according to the cloth.. Theres nothing wrong with going for a less material lifestyle and downsizing, my first 5 or so years I was very much that way without a car and just the most simple basics.. But if you want 'upper middle class' standard things, not substituting for lower standards, then they are not cheap.

I always get a smile from the well off western retiree, saying in his first few years how cheap it is to live, when hes swapped out his S class for a honda PCX..