Inquiry: UK soldiers who fought in Iraq may face prosecution

[cmsally]

The british army should stage a coup

Good idea and then they can send all the politicians and lawyers to fight the next war.

That way no stupid legal cases afterwards.

[condobrit001]

No army is immune from the stress of combat. You only need look at the American atrocities committed in Vietnam.

Now, those they committed in Guantanamo, in a non-combat situation, are another thing.

[stevenl]

Of course murder should be investigated, and if found guilty, every single criminal should be sentenced to the full degree of the law.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I must agree that criminals that prey on our peaceful British civilian society MUST be punished, even if they are followers of that odd cult of Islam. But to hold an enquiry into so called 'war crimes' allegedly perpertuated by members of one of the best professional armies in the world?They were in a battlefield situation and under a great deal of stress,and acted according to the situation as they saw it. Second guessing by chairborn PC tossers after the fact is stupid. These people are the ones who die so that YOU and I can sit at our keyboards and comment. My friend Pondgelding would agree with me on this.

You are saying war crimes should not be investigated and prosecuted?

What, when the war crimes are to your side? Germans and Japanese soldiers during WW11?

And if you think about it, these alleged crimes were probably perpetrated against civilians (unlawful deaths)....and that's OK by you, too, because they are of the same nationality as the people the Brits were fighting?

The Mai Lai massacre was OK?

Abu Graib was OK?

A somewhat unequal comparison.

Should the individual air crews, ground crews, and admin staff have all been charged with the terror bombing campaigns initiated by Germany in both world wars? The certainly and knowingly targeted civilians as official policy.

Massacres of unarmed civilians is unacceptable and those committing such acts deserve to be brought to justice. But let's not turn it into a political self beating session and accept everything as face value because it suits some agendas shall we.

Which is why there is an enquiry.

[nontabury]

[sawadee1947]

why only UK, why not US with uncountable cases...?

But it's a start anyway

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[Enoon]

Duke of Wellington:

"A French army is composed very differently from ours. The conscription calls out a share of every class — no matter whether your son or my son — all must march; but our friends — I may say it in this room — are the very scum of the earth. People talk of their enlisting from their fine military feeling — all stuff — no such thing. Some of our men enlist from having got bastard children — some for minor offences — many more for drink; but you can hardly conceive such a set brought together, and it really is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are."

What a good thing that times have changed, and that the British Army now draws it's intake from "fine fellows" all.

(Except for the "Deepcut Killer" of course. I wonder what inactive post they got transferred to?)

[meatboy]

nothing but a <deleted>>--g disgrace,and who is going to make money? YES YOU GOT and where is the money goner come from? RIGHT AGAIN.

Will you kindly translate this post to English, Google does not have a redneck translator.

What are you talking about?

not knowing your nationality this is the best i can doooooooooooooo, LAWYERS​ TAX PAYERS .

[condobrit001]

nothing but a <deleted>>--g disgrace,and who is going to make money? YES YOU GOT and where is the money goner come from? RIGHT AGAIN.

Will you kindly translate this post to English, Google does not have a redneck translator.

What are you talking about?

not knowing your nationality this is the best i can doooooooooooooo, LAWYERS​ TAX PAYERS .

You will find a clue to my nationality in my name!!

[MaeJoMTB]

I don't believe this. If this is true then we, the weak lilly livered British deserve everything we get. We send our soldiers to fight in the desert against a bunch of people that have no interest in human rights,

Who is we?

I'm English, and I never sent anyone out to kill foreigners.

Let the foreigners do what they like in their own country, without being oppressed by us.

If you're British and feel the need to visit a foreign country, make love, not war.

(That's what I'm doing)

Edited January 3, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[meatboy]

i cant believe there are so many british hate'rs.maybe if they had a loved one who never came back from fighting for them to have a safe life,or a relative who had been a prisoner of war,they might have a different opinion.

or are you one of them that never buy a POPPY.

[Seastallion]

i cant believe there are so many british hate'rs.maybe if they had a loved one who never came back from fighting for them to have a safe life,or a relative who had been a prisoner of war,they might have a different opinion.

or are you one of them that never buy a POPPY.

Would you care to give us an example of any British hatred in this thread?

Condemnation of murder by British soldiers is not "british hatred" (sic).

Soldiers can not do anything with impunity. Sure, most are fine lads and brave, but the bad apples, no matter how brave at other times, have to pay for their crimes.

[Docno]

Whats a disgrace is that we send our boys off to fight 'to help' foreign countries,---sungod

Wow is that why they were sent........and to think some people were cynical enough to think it was all about Oil.............

Well, I did use inverted commas, besides where are the oil fields in Afghan?

The article only refers to the Iraq War.

p.s. it's called "Afghanistan"

[sungod]

Whats a disgrace is that we send our boys off to fight 'to help' foreign countries,---sungod

Wow is that why they were sent........and to think some people were cynical enough to think it was all about Oil.............

Well, I did use inverted commas, besides where are the oil fields in Afghan?

The article only refers to the Iraq War.

p.s. it's called "Afghanistan"

For those who have actually been there( unlike most contributing it seems on this thread) its known as 'Afghan'

[Enoon]

Of course murder should be investigated, and if found guilty, every single criminal should be sentenced to the full degree of the law.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I must agree that criminals that prey on our peaceful British civilian society MUST be punished, even if they are followers of that odd cult of Islam. But to hold an enquiry into so called 'war crimes' allegedly perpertuated by members of one of the best professional armies in the world?They were in a battlefield situation and under a great deal of stress,and acted according to the situation as they saw it. Second guessing by chairborn PC tossers after the fact is stupid. These people are the ones who die so that YOU and I can sit at our keyboards and comment. My friend Pondgelding would agree with me on this.

You are saying war crimes should not be investigated and prosecuted?

What, when the war crimes are to your side? Germans and Japanese soldiers during WW11?

And if you think about it, these alleged crimes were probably perpetrated against civilians (unlawful deaths)....and that's OK by you, too, because they are of the same nationality as the people the Brits were fighting?

The Mai Lai massacre was OK?

Abu Graib was OK?

A somewhat unequal comparison.

Should the individual air crews, ground crews, and admin staff have all been charged with the terror bombing campaigns initiated by Germany in both world wars? The certainly and knowingly targeted civilians as official policy.

Massacres of unarmed civilians is unacceptable and those committing such acts deserve to be brought to justice. But let's not turn it into a political self beating session and accept everything as face value because it suits some agendas shall we.

And shouldn't the British government have been charged for it's institution of a total blockade against Germany in the First World War? (The blockade was unusually restrictive in that even foodstuffs were considered "contraband of war"). It violated International law and was established at the outset of the war in 1914, not after "provocation".

In doing so it caused the deaths of over 400,000 civilians and was used by Germany as justification for both unrestricted submarine warfare and the aerial bombardment of British civilians.

The Second World war finished in 1945.

What took place during that period, and at the Nuremburg trials, changed perspectives and expectations with regard to the behaviour of soldiers and the conduct of war.

It is now 2016. Different times, different laws, different world.

"We" are supposed to be the "good guys", and inquiries, such as this, help to reinforce that position.

Not only in the "hearts and minds" that we seek to secure, but in our own.

[MisterTee]

they need to start with Blair

Start with Bush... Blair was only his poodle.

[welshissan]

This is all about compensation, to alleged victims,and their families. The winners? Human rights lawyers, the likes of Cheri Blair who should really be there defending her husband and GW Bush! Too many armchair soldiers on this forum. Lastly for you Mr Seastallion,are the military of your country squeaky clean or does your government not take legal/illegal action against them? Gooda cobbers

[sanukjim]

As a soldier ,how do one "unlawfully of lawfully kill some one in battle.? That would be like proscuting the bomber pilots of the 500,00 people killed during the fire bombing raid at Tokyo in 1945.

[Prbkk]

nothing but a <deleted>>--g disgrace,and who is going to make money? YES YOU GOT and where is the money goner come from? RIGHT AGAIN.

What's a disgrace? That the British Army has murderers and other types of criminals? Yes, I agree, it's a <deleted> disgrace.

No - it's a disgrace self righteous never do anythings try to undermine the military that lay their lives on the line to protect the armchair knowalls.

You are quick to jump to the conclusion that the British army has lots of murderers and criminals.

No doubt Daesh, AQ, Taliban, IRA, INLA, are all just freedom loving boy scouts standing up for their rights in your eyes.

Why not nip over and discuss it with them? You'll get a warm welcome.

Yes, but that argument is based on the supposition that the coalition of the willing followed GWB into that fiasco for the best of reasons rather than pure stupidity. Didn't buy it then and certainly not now.

The individual soldiers, 99.9999% of them decent and worthy of support, had no inkling. Of course the renegades need to be punished as a disgrace to the institution

[TommyUK1960]

It's not advisable to join the British military. Its getting to a stage where the odds are against you.

[lvr181]

Anyone who thinks it's OK for British soldiers to commit murder just because they are fighting in a foreign land needs to take stock of their values.

Were you ever a volunteer in the armed forces and in a fighting unit (of any country)?

[Seastallion]

As a soldier ,how do one "unlawfully of lawfully kill some one in battle.? That would be like proscuting the bomber pilots of the 500,00 people killed during the fire bombing raid at Tokyo in 1945.

People who have some intelligence realise that the OP is about crimes of unlawful killing, which do not include killings in battle.

Hint: Think civilians deliberately targeted, prisoners, unarmed people etc.

Duh.

[Seastallion]

Anyone who thinks it's OK for British soldiers to commit murder just because they are fighting in a foreign land needs to take stock of their values.

Were you ever a volunteer in the armed forces and in a fighting unit (of any country)?

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

[evadgib]

It's not advisable to join the British military. Its getting to a stage where the odds are against you.

I'd still do it all over again if the BBC would lend me the Tardis

[sungod]

It's not advisable to join the British military. Its getting to a stage where the odds are against you.

I'd still do it all over again if the BBC would lend me the Tardis

Occasionally I feel like I want to dust of my old fighting order

[arjunadawn]

Its stunning to see the similarities between the US and the UK in the near intentional degradation of their nations. Probably one of the most dangerous things you could do to a nation to blur any remaining nationality is to have soldiers second guess command and control. Jeez, an issue rises, consider the merit and context, investigate, and prosecute militarily if necessary. But an official inquiry? These things exist with their own gravitational field- the precedent is the Salem Witch Trials.

[freebyrd]

Of course murder should be investigated, and if found guilty, every single criminal should be sentenced to the full degree of the law.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I must agree that criminals that prey on our peaceful British civilian society MUST be punished, even if they are followers of that odd cult of Islam. But to hold an enquiry into so called 'war crimes' allegedly perpertuated by members of one of the best professional armies in the world?They were in a battlefield situation and under a great deal of stress,and acted according to the situation as they saw it. Second guessing by chairborn PC tossers after the fact is stupid. These people are the ones who die so that YOU and I can sit at our keyboards and comment. My friend Pondgelding would agree with me on this.

I couldn't agree more. I wonder how many that decry the British Army have ever participated in armed conflict? As an ex soldier who has done so, I can assure you that there is no rule book when the lives of you or your mates are at stake and anyone, man, woman or child is a possible killer. March a mile in a soldier's boots before throwing out comments about justice from the comfort of your own home.

[stevenl]

Its stunning to see the similarities between the US and the UK in the near intentional degradation of their nations. Probably one of the most dangerous things you could do to a nation to blur any remaining nationality is to have soldiers second guess command and control. Jeez, an issue rises, consider the merit and context, investigate, and prosecute militarily if necessary. But an official inquiry? These things exist with their own gravitational field- the precedent is the Salem Witch Trials.

That's the way it is. In WWII 'I was just following orders' was deemed a not valid excuse, and that has not changed.

[dutchisaan]

Of course murder should be investigated, and if found guilty, every single criminal should be sentenced to the full degree of the law.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I must agree that criminals that prey on our peaceful British civilian society MUST be punished, even if they are followers of that odd cult of Islam. But to hold an enquiry into so called 'war crimes' allegedly perpertuated by members of one of the best professional armies in the world?They were in a battlefield situation and under a great deal of stress,and acted according to the situation as they saw it. Second guessing by chairborn PC tossers after the fact is stupid. These people are the ones who die so that YOU and I can sit at our keyboards and comment. My friend Pondgelding would agree with me on this.

I couldn't agree more. I wonder how many that decry the British Army have ever participated in armed conflict? As an ex soldier who has done so, I can assure you that there is no rule book when the lives of you or your mates are at stake and anyone, man, woman or child is a possible killer. March a mile in a soldier's boots before throwing out comments about justice from the comfort of your own home.

And by the way, the SAVE home you live in!

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This is not about an incident in Ireland nor is it about Afghanistan.

Edit: A post commenting on moderation has been removed.