Freudian Slip or Sour Grapes

[cmsally]

I think I need the "sarcasm smiley" before I start. So those who take things too literally be forewarned!

To my excitement , I saw that there is a talk scheduled by Mr Marc Faber for the 6th Jan. Seeing as one of my New Year resolutions is to make more money and lots of it , the timing couldn't be more perfect.

However upon opening the online flyer for the aforementioned event, I couldn't help wondering whether someone had rather suffered a Freudian slip ; someone letting the cat out of the bag as to their real feelings about wealth or more to the point about other peoples.

Anyway couldn't resist posting this. I know someone must have made a truly small slip with the printing but what delicious results!

[DeaconJohn]

It could be a mistake... but more probably someone's idea of a joke.

I wonder if Marc will be amused.

[KMartinHandyman]

His nickname is actually

Dr. Doom for extreme negative predictions at times.

[stillbornagain]

If you had been following his advice for the last 5 years or so, you would have lost a lot of money.

[NancyL]

Marc Faber appears on CNBC and Bloomberg regularly.

http://www.gloomboomdoom.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Faber

His claim-to-fame is that he advised his clients to get out of the stock market just before the 1987 stock market crash. I still have the answering machine tape that our stock broker left on October 19, 1987 in response to my call about <deleted> was going on. Of course, he didn't call himself a stock broker, but rather a "financial manager". Oh well, at least we were young and able to work our way out of the hole with a new genius.... until the dot.com collapse. But I digress.

Anyway, Marc Farber will be giving a lecture on Wednesday at Le Meridien Hotel with proceeds going to charity, He lives in Chiang Mai, although he isn't very visible in the community. But, he's willing to give a lecture in support of Child's Dream Charity.

The lecture is at Le Meriden Hotel, arrive at 6:30 for a 7 pm start. Entry is 1000 baht with a special price of 800 baht for members of Swiss Lanna Society or Chiang Mai Expats Club. You can join these groups at the event.

[CMBob]

If you had been following his advice for the last 5 years or so, you would have lost a lot of money.

Absolutely correct....and maybe it's for those people that the seminar is being presented (they surely would "proudly resent" his appearance...hehe).

On the other hand, given the nastiness on world markets today, maybe Faber would just claim his doom-and-gloom reports were just a wee bit early.

Edited January 4, 2016 by CMBob

[bangmai]

I would pay 500 thb to see Jimmy Rogers speak. Faber? Go to any tourist trap bar in Chiang Mai, and you can usually find some Euro-Trash spewing the same nonsense. Listening to Jim Cramer tout Proctor and Gamble every time the market drops 1% gets a little old, too, but at least he occasionally has some good ones.

[NancyL]

I would pay 500 thb to see Jimmy Rogers speak. Faber? Go to any tourist trap bar in Chiang Mai, and you can usually find some Euro-Trash spewing the same nonsense. Listening to Jim Cramer tout Proctor and Gamble every time the market drops 1% gets a little old, too, but at least he occasionally has some good ones.y

Yeah, I'm with you on this one, but I'm grateful that Marc Farber is donating the proceeds to charity.

Personally, a lifetime of Great Lakes winters as a child, an adulthood of running a greenhouse/nursery business in the same area with an uncertain power grid because the ash trees killed by emerald ash borer were taking down the stupid@ss overhead overhead power lines, and careful study of every episode of The Walking Dead has lead me to believe that all this investing in stock markets and gold is totally stupid. What good will that stuff be when the end comes?

We've remodeled our condo to store the essentials -- Coke Zero, toilet paper, cat food and kitty litter.

[cmsally]

Did anyone go to the talk ? Anything interesting said? Just wondered as I couldn't make it.

[neilrob]

I went. Interesting but not that enlightening---you did not miss much. Doom lite.

[NancyL]

Yes, I was there, too. It was economics as entertainment. He had some interesting statistics and ways of looking at the world. Some insights I hadn't thought of before, but it didn't change my way of thinking about anything, least of all him.

His political views were risky. Sure, the U.S. gets itself into places it probably shouldn't but his idea that the U.S. should stick to influencing North America because Russia is the "natural" leader of Europe and China the "natural" leader of Asia (I guess because of their sizes on the map, if I read his graphic correctly -- which consisted solely of a map, showing sea lanes) is something not likely to go down well with various countries in Europe and Asia that don't want to be left to fend for themselves against Russia or China.

Also, he didn't give too many predictions about the future and stayed away from his previous signature topic of "buy gold". Instead it seems he's planning for his future by filling his swimming pool with beer and young beautiful Asian women. Again, if I understood his graphic correctly. Why beer instead of a nice sparkling wine is beyond me. At least the beer will be of more use at the end of the world than bars of gold.

[TheAppletons]

Yes, I was there, too. It was economics as entertainment. He had some interesting statistics and ways of looking at the world. Some insights I hadn't thought of before, but it didn't change my way of thinking about anything, least of all him.

His political views were risky. Sure, the U.S. gets itself into places it probably shouldn't but his idea that the U.S. should stick to influencing North America because Russia is the "natural" leader of Europe and China the "natural" leader of Asia (I guess because of their sizes on the map, if I read his graphic correctly -- which consisted solely of a map, showing sea lanes) is something not likely to go down well with various countries in Europe and Asia that don't want to be left to fend for themselves against Russia or China.

Also, he didn't give too many predictions about the future and stayed away from his previous signature topic of "buy gold". Instead it seems he's planning for his future by filling his swimming pool with beer and young beautiful Asian women. Again, if I understood his graphic correctly. Why beer instead of a nice sparkling wine is beyond me. At least the beer will be of more use at the end of the world than bars of gold.

Was it Chang beer? If it was, he's filling the pool with beer because then you can pee in the pool and it won't change the flavor of the Chang beer.

[PostmanPat]

Having lived in Chiang Mai now for eleven years and at various times heard people eulogising about this Mark Faber, almost to the point of hysteria akin to "Beatlemania" days back in the 60s I personally think its a vast over reaction to someone who as far as I can judge might have interesting views on the world but for sure isnt going to do or say anything to help the "ordinary folk" like us.

Good economic advice? Heres one thats sure to succeed. A fool and his or her money are soon parted. If you live in Chiang Mai under no circumstances invest it with some dodgy supposed financier who promises you the earth and then runs away....with your money of course! If it sounds dodgy then it probably is dodgy. If a person claims they can get you 10% interest in a prevailing market thats only paying 2% theres an almost certainty that somethings not right.

Its people like that who rely on the foolishness and naivety of individuals to feather their own nest very comfortably!!!

[Jingthing]

Separated at birth?

[MrTee]

I'd resent him too with a nickname like that!

[bangmai]

It was nice of him to donate everyone else's money to charity. Did he have any comments on LMI?

[PostmanPat]

By the way in case of doubt, just wanted to clarify that the second part of my posting no.13 doesnt refer in any way to Mr. Faber. Regular readers and members of the expat club know to whom I m referring!

[NancyL]

By the way in case of doubt, just wanted to clarify that the second part of my posting no.13 doesnt refer in any way to Mr. Faber. Regular readers and members of the expat club know to whom I m referring!

As the current president of the CM Expat Club and as someone who was at Mr. Faber's lecture, I'd like to comment on Postman Pat's two posts.

First, Dr. Faber doesn't make his living in asking "ordinary people" to invest with him, nor does he offer advice that is especially "actionable" for ordinary people -- except maybe for his advice, in response to a question -- not to invest in the economy of any one country or in any one industry. i.e. don't put your eggs in one basket. You won't see Dr. Faber working the expat hangouts in Chiang Mai asking retirees to invest their life savings with him. He makes his money from his newsletter, speaking fees and managing his own wealth. He's not a Bernie Madoff or like the guys who ran LMI; neither scandal was mentioned in his talk.

Now, for Postman Pat's comment that the "members of the expat club know to whom I'm referring", I'd suggest that many don't. Over 350 people have joined the club since the former president left the country. If you haven't been to a CEC meeting in over two years, then you're in for a surprise. The organization has been transformed. Now the Board is elected by the members. Any excess in operating revenue is used for charity. Actually, that provision was in the old constitution but at best 5000 or maybe 7500 baht a year was given to charity and it was unclear what happened to the rest of the excess. In 2014 -- the year of the "transition", 60,000 baht was given to charity, in 2015 over 164,000 baht was given for charity. The club has been able to increase its charitable activity as the membership grows and more business sponsors have joined.

CEC added an important new category of sponsors -- Community Service Sponsors -- so that groups like churches, charities, Rotary, RBL, LCN and others have partnered with us to utilize the CEC website, Facebook and e-newsletter to promote their activities and opportunities for community service. Now, CEC is about helping newcomer expats to get settled in Chiang Mai, build a good social network and provide opportunities for all expats to expand their friendships through social activities. The Outside Group Activities (OGAs) are key to this. These clubs-within-a-club operate independently of CEC, but like the Community Sponsors, they benefit from being able to tap into the communication resources of CEC. Some of the old-line OGAs, like Bridge Club and Computer Club, continue to operate quite successfully and we've added some exciting new ones in the past couple years -- Lawn Bowls and Expat Singers are two that come to mind right now.

So, if you haven't been to a CEC meeting in a couple years, I urge you to come back. The old "Coffee Mornings" have morphed into twice a month "Breakfast Club" extravaganzas, on the first and third Friday mornings at River Market, 9:30 am - 11:30 am, with a full breakfast buffet. Now over 100 people come, just to chat. Since the group has grown so large, for 2016 they've added cooked-to-order eggs and waffles and several buffet lines.

The monthly General Meetings at Le Meridien Hotel on the fourth Saturday morning. Arrive at 10 am for 10:30 am start. This month's program, Jan 23, will be courtesy of our Community Service Sponsors. The topic is "Community Service for and by Expats in Chiang Mai"

[PostmanPat]

By the way in case of doubt, just wanted to clarify that the second part of my posting no.13 doesnt refer in any way to Mr. Faber. Regular readers and members of the expat club know to whom I m referring!

As the current president of the CM Expat Club and as someone who was at Mr. Faber's lecture, I'd like to comment on Postman Pat's two posts.

First, Dr. Faber doesn't make his living in asking "ordinary people" to invest with him, nor does he offer advice that is especially "actionable" for ordinary people -- except maybe for his advice, in response to a question -- not to invest in the economy of any one country or in any one industry. i.e. don't put your eggs in one basket. You won't see Dr. Faber working the expat hangouts in Chiang Mai asking retirees to invest their life savings with him. He makes his money from his newsletter, speaking fees and managing his own wealth. He's not a Bernie Madoff or like the guys who ran LMI; neither scandal was mentioned in his talk.

Now, for Postman Pat's comment that the "members of the expat club know to whom I'm referring", I'd suggest that many don't. Over 350 people have joined the club since the former president left the country. If you haven't been to a CEC meeting in over two years, then you're in for a surprise. The organization has been transformed. Now the Board is elected by the members. Any excess in operating revenue is used for charity. Actually, that provision was in the old constitution but at best 5000 or maybe 7500 baht a year was given to charity and it was unclear what happened to the rest of the excess. In 2014 -- the year of the "transition", 60,000 baht was given to charity, in 2015 over 164,000 baht was given for charity. The club has been able to increase its charitable activity as the membership grows and more business sponsors have joined.

CEC added an important new category of sponsors -- Community Service Sponsors -- so that groups like churches, charities, Rotary, RBL, LCN and others have partnered with us to utilize the CEC website, Facebook and e-newsletter to promote their activities and opportunities for community service. Now, CEC is about helping newcomer expats to get settled in Chiang Mai, build a good social network and provide opportunities for all expats to expand their friendships through social activities. The Outside Group Activities (OGAs) are key to this. These clubs-within-a-club operate independently of CEC, but like the Community Sponsors, they benefit from being able to tap into the communication resources of CEC. Some of the old-line OGAs, like Bridge Club and Computer Club, continue to operate quite successfully and we've added some exciting new ones in the past couple years -- Lawn Bowls and Expat Singers are two that come to mind right now.

So, if you haven't been to a CEC meeting in a couple years, I urge you to come back. The old "Coffee Mornings" have morphed into twice a month "Breakfast Club" extravaganzas, on the first and third Friday mornings at River Market, 9:30 am - 11:30 am, with a full breakfast buffet. Now over 100 people come, just to chat. Since the group has grown so large, for 2016 they've added cooked-to-order eggs and waffles and several buffet lines.

The monthly General Meetings at Le Meridien Hotel on the fourth Saturday morning. Arrive at 10 am for 10:30 am start. This month's program, Jan 23, will be courtesy of our Community Service Sponsors. The topic is "Community Service for and by Expats in Chiang Mai"

Nancy, I did qualify my first post with a second post pointing out that I was not referring to Mr. Faber. You know very well who I was referring to. A good friend of mine has had to stay at work for an extra number of years as a result of bad financial dealings with the person who I m talking about.

I would also concur with others on here that it was very nice of the apparently very rich Mr Faber to charge an unusually high ( for Chiang Mai) entrance fee for his lecture and then donate other peoples money to charity. Thats priceless if you think about it. As I said in my first post, I m just astonished at the extent of grovelling some people do towards Mr. Faber. He is it seems a very rich man who seems to do nothing for ordinary people ie the likes of us!

[Youaredoomed]

Rummy how all these 'pillars of society' types all turn out to be crooks, bullSh**ers, or perverts....

Look as though Chiang Mai is this year's Pattaya if you will......

[NancyL]

By the way in case of doubt, just wanted to clarify that the second part of my posting no.13 doesnt refer in any way to Mr. Faber. Regular readers and members of the expat club know to whom I m referring!

As the current president of the CM Expat Club and as someone who was at Mr. Faber's lecture, I'd like to comment on Postman Pat's two posts.

First, Dr. Faber doesn't make his living in asking "ordinary people" to invest with him, nor does he offer advice that is especially "actionable" for ordinary people -- except maybe for his advice, in response to a question -- not to invest in the economy of any one country or in any one industry. i.e. don't put your eggs in one basket. You won't see Dr. Faber working the expat hangouts in Chiang Mai asking retirees to invest their life savings with him. He makes his money from his newsletter, speaking fees and managing his own wealth. He's not a Bernie Madoff or like the guys who ran LMI; neither scandal was mentioned in his talk.

Now, for Postman Pat's comment that the "members of the expat club know to whom I'm referring", I'd suggest that many don't. Over 350 people have joined the club since the former president left the country. If you haven't been to a CEC meeting in over two years, then you're in for a surprise. The organization has been transformed. Now the Board is elected by the members. Any excess in operating revenue is used for charity. Actually, that provision was in the old constitution but at best 5000 or maybe 7500 baht a year was given to charity and it was unclear what happened to the rest of the excess. In 2014 -- the year of the "transition", 60,000 baht was given to charity, in 2015 over 164,000 baht was given for charity. The club has been able to increase its charitable activity as the membership grows and more business sponsors have joined.

CEC added an important new category of sponsors -- Community Service Sponsors -- so that groups like churches, charities, Rotary, RBL, LCN and others have partnered with us to utilize the CEC website, Facebook and e-newsletter to promote their activities and opportunities for community service. Now, CEC is about helping newcomer expats to get settled in Chiang Mai, build a good social network and provide opportunities for all expats to expand their friendships through social activities. The Outside Group Activities (OGAs) are key to this. These clubs-within-a-club operate independently of CEC, but like the Community Sponsors, they benefit from being able to tap into the communication resources of CEC. Some of the old-line OGAs, like Bridge Club and Computer Club, continue to operate quite successfully and we've added some exciting new ones in the past couple years -- Lawn Bowls and Expat Singers are two that come to mind right now.

So, if you haven't been to a CEC meeting in a couple years, I urge you to come back. The old "Coffee Mornings" have morphed into twice a month "Breakfast Club" extravaganzas, on the first and third Friday mornings at River Market, 9:30 am - 11:30 am, with a full breakfast buffet. Now over 100 people come, just to chat. Since the group has grown so large, for 2016 they've added cooked-to-order eggs and waffles and several buffet lines.

The monthly General Meetings at Le Meridien Hotel on the fourth Saturday morning. Arrive at 10 am for 10:30 am start. This month's program, Jan 23, will be courtesy of our Community Service Sponsors. The topic is "Community Service for and by Expats in Chiang Mai"

Nancy, I did qualify my first post with a second post pointing out that I was not referring to Mr. Faber. You know very well who I was referring to. A good friend of mine has had to stay at work for an extra number of years as a result of bad financial dealings with the person who I m talking about.

I would also concur with others on here that it was very nice of the apparently very rich Mr Faber to charge an unusually high ( for Chiang Mai) entrance fee for his lecture and then donate other peoples money to charity. Thats priceless if you think about it. As I said in my first post, I m just astonished at the extent of grovelling some people do towards Mr. Faber. He is it seems a very rich man who seems to do nothing for ordinary people ie the likes of us!

Yes, I know who you're referring to, but my point is that most of the people who attend CEC meetings these days don't. It's unfortunate that your friend and others lost their life savings in their dealings with him. As you said, if someone is promising returns that are well in excess of what the market is paying, you have to raise an alarm bell in your head. That's what Hubby and I did when this person (who had absolutely no appropriate educational credentials, incidentally) did when he made his pitch to us in 2006 and we said "no thanks".

As for your snarky observation that Mr. Faber charged an unusually high fee and then turned around and donated it to charity -- usually Mr. Faber charges a very high fee to speak to an audience. He waived his fee, but wanted a similar amount raised that would be donated to charity. The point of his "working to give the presentation" was to benefit the charity. That would be like a gourmet chef coming to create a special dinner to benefit charity and then people expecting to receive the meal at street food prices when the whole point of the gourmet chef donating his time and effort was to raise money for a charity. In both examples, Mr. Faber and the gourmet chef would have been better off to stay home and simply write a check (which Mr. Faber does, I can assure you) rather than doing something that allows people to sample his expertise.

[PostmanPat]

Nancy, So what is Mr. Fabers "expertise" that seems to have you, your hubby, and various others awestruck? Apart from gross generalisations ( I ve experienced him before) he offers precisely nothing of ( financial) value to the likes of you and me. For the life of me, I just cant see the value for anyone of paying close to 1000 baht to hear an extremely comfortable well heeled millionaire talk in very general terms about next to nothing....perhaps "awestruck" over next to nothing impresses you and others. It sure doesnt impress me. People who impress me do things for their community and the wider social network. Mr. Faber certainly doesnt fit into that category whatsoever.

[NancyL]

It was entertainment. Pure and simple. I came to see what all the fuss is about. I'm not awestruck. I was happy he was donating his time for a good charity and that Le Meridien donated the meeting room costs and gave a good deal on the wine. It was a nice time chatting with people ahead of the talk. Not often you can stand around Le Meridien having a good time, sipping wine for 150 baht a glass.

He had some interesting graphics about how the U.S.'s Quantitative Easing money has been bouying the world economy, esp China (nothing I didn't know already) and how the avg housing rental prices in the U.S. have continued to climb while the average mortgage payments have been falling -- meaning that young people, i.e. first-time home buyers are being kept from the the housing market. That one I hadn't really thought about, maybe because I don't have kids. But someday I may return to the U.S. where I'll be faced with a rent vs. buy decision.

He also had a good dig at the Thai policies prohibiting foreigners owning the land where their houses sit. (If anyone's been paying attention, his fabulous home has been written up in the media) and he gave a thumbs down to CM Immigration and the failure of the foreign embassies to do anything to lobby the Thai gov't correct these two problems since Thai people can come to our countries and buy land and receive good visa treatment if they have money to invest in the country. These comments were directed at the Honorary Consuls in the room. Now those were comments that the "common people" in the room could relate to, and they did!

[Thailand]

Not sure,but wasn't he the MD of a HK company that was investigated and eventually shut down in the late eighties?

I remember the company I was involved with during the 87 crash in HK also got most of their clients out of the market and in fact returned large amounts of money to them that they had already commited to invest in unit trust/ mutual funds pre crash giving then the option to invest or pull out, 90% pulled out the reminder bought at market lows.

One of the top fund managers of the day told me that if they can achieve slightly above index they were doing well, not taking in to account puts,options etc that could make or break you overnight.

[PostmanPat]

Its funny in a way but rather tragic how many people are fascinated by people who they think can get them something for nothing. These people, the bankers and financiers that is, usually end up being the only people with massive fortunes and massive houses, whilst the "ordinary joes" of this world invariably end up crashing and burning and losing their hard earned savings.

Pay to hear this Faber person? Not a snowballs chance in hell! Having made his fortune, probably in part at the expense of ordinary people he now has the audacity to charge people to hear him speak. So too does Nick Leeson, the trader who brought down Berings Bank single handed!

Enough said. Rant over!

[bangmai]

As was the case with Richard Nixon, the cover-up led to his demise; not the actual crime. It was obvious that certain members of the CEC were doing their utmost to sweep the financial swindle under the rug, including keeping almost all mentions of it off of this forum. That led many of us to simply use google to get the details, including a report of a board member also being a moderator for this site. Is that still the case, Nancy? If so, I would say that is absolutely a conflict of interest.

[NancyL]

OK Postman Pat. Point taken. Perhaps you'll just consider donating the the charity directly and eliminating the middle man: http://childsdream.org/

Mr. Faber has no position on their Board or any role in calling the shots nor does he benefit from anything they do.

[narkeddiver]

It seems to me that some people cannot let go of the past

I'm not a member of the expats club nor have I been by I certainly think the current board deserve credit for turning it into now what it should have been in the past

The shysters responsible for the wrong doings are no longer involved, every thing seems much more open and above board than before so maybe people should just let them get along with doing what they do now instead of continually moaning about what happened in the past

Edited January 9, 2016 by narkeddiver

[PostmanPat]

It seems to me that some people cannot let go of the past

I'm not a member of the expats club nor have I been by I certainly think the current board deserve credit for turning it into now what it should have been in the past

The shysters responsible for the wrong doings are no longer involved, every thing seems much more open and above board than before so maybe people should just let them get along with doing what they do now instead of continually moaning about what happened in the past

Its easy to say that if you werent personally affected financially. Neither was I but I know more than one person who lost a huge chunk of their retirement pot and had to go back to work as a result. I just think theres a huge irony in the expats club sponsoring an event where the speaker is a very rich financial adviser after what happened just a short time ago!!

Edited January 9, 2016 by PostmanPat

[bangmai]

But not as ironic as them allowing a world renown swindler to be one of their sponsors so soon after the other swindler did a runner. The fact that both swindlers targeted pensioners, who are the same demographic of the vast majority of CEC members, is even more irony.

I'm all in favor of investing, but it does have risks. It's very hard to beat simple index funds in the long run. Canada, Norway, and Singapore Governments all invest their sovereign wealth in markets. The Left won't have anything to do with it in the US, same goes for Medicare vouchers.