More and More Duties and Expectations?

[BruceMangosteen]

Once again, I'm asking for experiences and results of rebellion...for another existing female teacher who is afraid of you guys and gals for some reason. I know how I'd react...but lets get some actual teacher opinions and experiences okay?

When you sign a contract, it isn't all crystal clear. Most specifically the number of hours you teach each week may not be spelled out. Only on, one, to day, has come on here with statements that he does indeed spell it all out, i.e. gate duty, requirements to sign in, leaving campus early, working weekends, attending faculty meetings, participation in sports days and open house events, etc.. One. And I doubt he's being straight with us.

Has anyone been in a situation where you start out doing your job, teaching let's say 20 contact hours a week, and things start being added to your day/week/month such as outlined above but not limited to them. We could even say teaching on holidays or days when no classes are actually scheduled such as in October, March, and even April? All this for no extra wages, salary, benefits, or even a thank you for being such a kind person...

Thank you and Happy New Year. One says 10,000. retired teachers will be asked to come back and save the Education system from failure, another says the P.M. is encouraging Filipino hires to "teach English". I can't figure it out on my own so tell my friend I'll just get a set of opinions and experiences and let her make it all work out.

[Mencken]

Last year I had my schedule changed but it was largely a wash. I lost two shitty classes but gained a more important, involved class. For me, it was a good thing.

But yeah, good schedule changes OK. Bad schedule changes buh bye...

My experience is that no one stands their ground. This is not any different from home, everyone that needs an income, submits and obeys.

This year, my departure will be after Ill reject of first contract over pay. I may need to accept second offer and just hope the hours match my rate. Unknown if hours are spelled out in contract (I forget, could look...lol) but I will make perfectly clear what classes I have no interest in March.

When my shitty schedule is produced, I'll give thirty days notice - due to being giving me classes I don't want, too many contact hours, too many classes, too many texts and the contact hour/s not matching my expectation vs salary. Done, gone.

I played the game the first year. They've had their test drive. They can pay for the Mercedes or go by a used Yugo.

Of course, they could give me what I want, no one else wants them. But. That would be too easy.

Mostly, they are going to have to meet b2250-2500 per monthly contact hour and I doubt that's gonna happen. No idea how school has the reputation it does...zombie central.

I'm becoming jaundiced. The administration is backward and myopic.

..know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Edited January 9, 2016 by Mencken

[Rhys]

Tough call....experiences... well. first it all depends on your school, grade levels, high school, colleges and your supervisor..that is a start. I've had it both way.. it was great and it was a horror..Extra activities, working on the weekend, no extra pay, make up classes, special favors like proofing a supervisor's relative's thesis and rewriting it...sadly all part of the job.

On the other side, I'm left alone with classes, course syllabus design, and student issues..Need a day of when all is in the green no classes that day or project...off

For me it balances out...so I am fine with the situation... but the admin people always seem to come with something, don't they.

I guess the worst example was taking a student team to an event which required funding... the previous three years never a problem... However NEW administrative people, came....I submitted the paperwork, applications, and request for funds... a month early.. requested an advance to reserve room and buy train tickets.....bounced back and forth between two Thai ego centric teachers claiming it was not their job... ended up getting the check one day before team left.. Thus I had to front the money myself... a 00,000 amount... and the respond this time.. that is the way it goes.. the previous three times when taking care of the activity never a problem..yes did all the request for help from the various people who could and NADA...

However that is the only issue, I've had..one of the administrators is long go, the other is going..

Head to the upper division students.. called a little better than high school at time..higher educational learning institutes..

Cheers..

[Scott]

This is Thailand, so things are subject to change, but as a general rule, the contract should spell out some of the general conditions of your employment, such as the maximum number of hours you will be teaching and what compensation will be given for more hours. The general working hours should be spelled out and some broad statements about extracurricular activities.

The policies of the school should then be more specific about what exactly those duties and conditions are for any particular teacher or class of teachers. Teachers in KG will likely have different duties than a Mathyom teacher. A subject teacher will have different duties than a homeroom teacher. The contract doesn't need to address all of these differences, but the policies should.

The schools that I know, have a set number of days outside of Monday through Friday where work may be required. This is in the contract. The policy then spells those out more specifically. Sports day may be held on a Saturday, for example, taking one of those days.

It is irritating and frustrating with all the different ways they expect, but again, it is Thailand. Many times, the director is not the one who has set this stuff, but someone higher up the food chain, including the MOE or the local Area Education Office. For example, on Jan 16, it is Teacher's Day. It's a Saturday. The school has nothing planned for the Foreign Teachers, so it will be a normal Saturday off. The local Area Education Office may have something planned and we may be told we have to attend.

Thailand isn't known for planning in advance and working in a school does mean that a certain number of bodies are needed to keep an eye on the students from the time they arrive until they leave.

[bigt3116]

Last year I had my schedule changed but it was largely a wash. I lost two shitty classes but gained a more important, involved class. For me, it was a good thing.

But yeah, good schedule changes OK. Bad schedule changes buh bye...

My experience is that no one stands their ground. This is not any different from home, everyone that needs an income, submits and obeys.

This year, my departure will be after Ill reject of first contract over pay. I may need to accept second offer and just hope the hours match my rate. Unknown if hours are spelled out in contract (I forget, could look...lol) but I will make perfectly clear what classes I have no interest in March.

When my shitty schedule is produced, I'll give thirty days notice - due to being giving me classes I don't want, too many contact hours, too many classes, too many texts and the contact hour/s not matching my expectation vs salary. Done, gone.

I played the game the first year. They've had their test drive. They can pay for the Mercedes or go by a used Yugo.

Of course, they could give me what I want, no one else wants them. But. That would be too easy.

Mostly, they are going to have to meet b2250-2500 per monthly contact hour and I doubt that's gonna happen. No idea how school has the reputation it does...zombie central.

I'm becoming jaundiced. The administration is backward and myopic.

..know the price of everything and the value of nothing

One can but hope, that you are not teaching English.

[Eddy B]

I remember when I worked at one boys high school, during the October school break we had to still sign-in even though it was holiday time. If we did not sign-in by 8:50am the signing-in folder was taken into the office and they drew a red line to show that you were late. So much for a holiday. We even took it in turns to sign for each other on a week basis but they soon realised what we were doing and got pissy about it.

[BruceMangosteen]

I remember when I worked at one boys high school, during the October school break we had to still sign-in even though it was holiday time. If we did not sign-in by 8:50am the signing-in folder was taken into the office and they drew a red line to show that you were late. So much for a holiday. We even took it in turns to sign for each other on a week basis but they soon realised what we were doing and got pissy about it.

Were your wages docked for this conduct?

[BruceMangosteen]

For example, on Jan 16, it is Teacher's Day. It's a Saturday. The school has nothing planned for the Foreign Teachers, so it will be a normal Saturday off. The local Area Education Office may have something planned and we may be told we have to attend.

From memory, there is always something scheduled for the Saturday before/after the official "Teachers Day" to give awards and speeches. I recall foreigners being invited but not required to attend, sort of like retirement parties etc.. When you indicate "told we have to attend" are you suggesting it is some how either spelled out by contract and/or the school is well within their rights to require you to attend such an event?

[Loaded]

Why not just do your jobs rather than complain about every little thing that might be slightly different to your expectations as a Westerner?

[BruceMangosteen]

Why not just do your jobs rather than complain about every little thing that might be slightly different to your expectations as a Westerner?

I don't recall reading a lot of complaints. You remind of the Thai perspective that any suggestion or idea a westerner has is a "complaint" but if it comes from a Thai, it's "wondering why?". You also must be one of the lucky one's who hasn't be subjected to discrimination and racism. There is a lot to be learned when one is in fact discriminated against and as I say, the victim of racism. You will never direct this towards another once you have in fact suffered from it. Okay, have a nice night.

[Loaded]

Why not just do your jobs rather than complain about every little thing that might be slightly different to your expectations as a Westerner?

I don't recall reading a lot of complaints. You remind of the Thai perspective that any suggestion or idea a westerner has is a "complaint" but if it comes from a Thai, it's "wondering why?". You also must be one of the lucky one's who hasn't be subjected to discrimination and racism. There is a lot to be learned when one is in fact discriminated against and as I say, the victim of racism. You will never direct this towards another once you have in fact suffered from it. Okay, have a nice night.

Make an effort to understand the culture you live in and life won't seem so bad.

[Slip]

I remember when I worked at one boys high school, during the October school break we had to still sign-in even though it was holiday time. If we did not sign-in by 8:50am the signing-in folder was taken into the office and they drew a red line to show that you were late. So much for a holiday. We even took it in turns to sign for each other on a week basis but they soon realised what we were doing and got pissy about it.

Were your wages docked for this conduct?

Sadly, I was coordinator for our place a few years back, so I rewrote the contract to require just that. I am no longer coordinating, and am now hoist by my own petard.

[EDIT- staying one step ahead of the grammar police]

Edited January 10, 2016 by Slip

[jimcarr65]

I like the response from the guy who says "get to know the Thai culture and you won't have it so bad". Having something put in a contract and then having it changed on a whim, has nothing to do with the Thai culture. It's called getting taken advantage of because there is really nothing we can do about it, except quit. I started with 18 contact hours and once a week gate duty. Now I have 24 contact hours, gate duty, English day activity on Monday mornings for 45 minutes and during the holiday breaks I teach the Thai teachers English. So yes, I am one who has been taken advantage of and I am looking to go elsewhere, but very difficult to do in the middle of the term. And who is to say its going to be better in the next school. I was even told by one of the Thai teachers whom I have become friends with, that that is why they cannot keep foreign teachers, they reel us in and pamper us, then slowly suck us dry.

[Scott]

For example, on Jan 16, it is Teacher's Day. It's a Saturday. The school has nothing planned for the Foreign Teachers, so it will be a normal Saturday off. The local Area Education Office may have something planned and we may be told we have to attend.

From memory, there is always something scheduled for the Saturday before/after the official "Teachers Day" to give awards and speeches. I recall foreigners being invited but not required to attend, sort of like retirement parties etc.. When you indicate "told we have to attend" are you suggesting it is some how either spelled out by contract and/or the school is well within their rights to require you to attend such an event?

If they mandate that we go, then it will be counted as one of the Saturday, Sunday or public holidays. If one doesn't attend, their wages will be cut by one day.

I am making some assumptions, but that is what happens on other event days. It's been some time since a Teacher's Day fell on a Saturday. Some years, we don't have to go to anything and some years we do. Some teachers show up and then relatively quickly disappear, never to be seen again.

There is only so much listening to the monks chant and then to officials give long speeches in Thai. Actually, the director is reasonably lenient as long as people make an appearance. Sometimes we don't have to go at all.

One rather nice gal that has worked for us for a number of years is now on the chopping block because she has never attended anything and they just figured it out. Two years she was sick on Sport's Day -- and produced a medical excuse. Unfortunately, both are from the same doctor for the same condition. She also hasn't shown up for any other activities. There is no plan to terminate her, but she is being viewed as uncooperative and will most likely not be offered a contract. It's actually sad, since she is a good teacher and well worth keeping.

[simon43]

I am no longer coordinating, and am now hoist by my own petard.

[EDIT- staying one step ahead of the grammar police]

Petard?? Pétard you mean?

Where's your accent aigu? Come on, get a grip!

Edited January 11, 2016 by simon43

[recom273]

You don't mention what level you teach. Maybe look towards the times when kids have other duties and you get extra time in the coffee shop or slide home early .. In my case there will be days when kids don't show due to projects or school outings, etc

If this doesn't balance out then certainly - object - the school will stick it for a term or year and then not renew your contract.

I have objected in the past, decided that a certain school isn't for me and the outcome has been amicable, they didn't offer a renewal and I didn't want to work under forever changing conditions.

As for signing in during the holiday, this should be made clear at the interview, don't accept more contact hours than is on your contract. Extra curricular activities, that's when you have to decide if you want the job or not. Quite often this happens after a change of management, so maybe just move on and find another job that suits - there are plenty of jobs out there.

Edited January 11, 2016 by recom273

[bangkapi]

It's true.. They all slowly strangle the life out of you.

[phiti]

It is the Thai way not to ask questions, whereas Farangs will question almost everything. When contracts are written, often the school's administration will not think to include in all those little extras that build up and annoy us as it is the Thai way to accept it as part of their duties.

[Colabamumbai]

Yes in most schools that is typical. ...at some point you just say no. Or if you get lucky your schedule shows 22 hours a week, but you work it smart and teach for 10 or less.

Do not share a class with a Thai teacher one hour each......You do the first 9 or 10 weeks of the term and then let the Thai teacher do the last 9 or 10 weeks.

My last schedule showed 22 hours per week, midway thru the term I was teaching 3.5 hours a week, a wast of the schools money and my time educating the students. Up to them salary remained the same.

If they will not let you leave school for lunch or in free time between classes, or want you to meet and greet the students and parents on the street at 7:30 am find another school.

[SOTIRIOS]

...you are their b*tch...plain and simple....

..take it or leave it....

...this is their country....they do as they please....they know full well what position most of us are in......

...as for disputes or recourse.....good luck.....

....a 12 million baht lesson: "I promise you, they will always believe me, never you" (My loving wife)

[crickets]

For 30k a month govt school no more than 24 hrs a week and no holiday or weekend work.

[sead]

Last year I had my schedule changed but it was largely a wash. I lost two shitty classes but gained a more important, involved class. For me, it was a good thing.

But yeah, good schedule changes OK. Bad schedule changes buh bye...

My experience is that no one stands their ground. This is not any different from home, everyone that needs an income, submits and obeys.

This year, my departure will be after Ill reject of first contract over pay. I may need to accept second offer and just hope the hours match my rate. Unknown if hours are spelled out in contract (I forget, could look...lol) but I will make perfectly clear what classes I have no interest in March.

When my shitty schedule is produced, I'll give thirty days notice - due to being giving me classes I don't want, too many contact hours, too many classes, too many texts and the contact hour/s not matching my expectation vs salary. Done, gone.

I played the game the first year. They've had their test drive. They can pay for the Mercedes or go by a used Yugo.

Of course, they could give me what I want, no one else wants them. But. That would be too easy.

Mostly, they are going to have to meet b2250-2500 per monthly contact hour and I doubt that's gonna happen. No idea how school has the reputation it does...zombie central.

I'm becoming jaundiced. The administration is backward and myopic.

..know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Dont think many knows about our Yugo haha.

[Thaidream]

Having been coming to Thailand and living here for almost 50 years, I understand Thai culture very well. People in power in Thailand know well that Thais do n ot complain and that is why they will add on many more duties after a person is hired that was never discussed prior. This of course is exploitation. The Thai worker knows it and so do we. Thais are taught to be non confrontational but there are times when a Thai cannot take the exploitation any longer and the reaction is quite violent. Just because a Thai acquiesces, doesn't mean they like it. And the poster is absolutely right- as far as a non Thai is concerned- they will always believe the Thai before they believe the foreigner. Always be careful with your words and how you handle situations. In most situations, it is better to walk than to confront and of course remain smiling. Just because you are smiling, it doesn't mean harmony. Study the Thai way of speaking,their facial expressions; their body language and how they react in situations and you will be able to handle most situations.

[quandow]

I have worked eight years on and off again for the largest private school system in Thailand. The illogical approach to just about EVERYTHING can drive you nuts IF YOU LET IT! There is always a little clause in the fine print of the contract that amounts to "and other duties as assigned," meaning they can require just about any task for you to perform.

My saving grace is that I'm retired so I don't depend on the income. One year a Thai administrator extorted 2k baht from every foreign teacher and this hit MANY teachers in a bad way. Another year any foreign teachers living in school-provided apartments were hit up with extra electrical bills, some as high as 6k baht extra because "previous meter readings were erroneous." When you add this to the myriad of unspecified duties such as creating and producing entire Christmas plays (THAT was given to us a year ago), it makes you shake your head in wonder how they keep any teachers at all. Of course, QUALITY teachers realize very quickly what a rotten deal they are getting and move on, leaving the rest of us to carry that weight. The end result is a dispirited, aging group of alcoholics who do the least that is required of them, cutting every corner imaginable - and the Thai school system is ok with that. Until they drop the hubris and pay more than lip service to improve their education system, well that's just what your gonna get.

[otherstuff1957]

When I first started teaching at my current school, we taught an average of 15 - 16 hours a week with one hour of gate or schoolyard duty and about 8 weeks paid vacation per year (split into October, New Years and summer breaks). Over the years, those almost ideal conditions have been eroded away. We now teach 18 - 20 hours per week, we still only have one hour of duty, but our vacation time is down to 7 weeks. In addition, new teachers are starting at almost 10k LESS per month salary than I was offered when I started 6 years ago.

It is still a much better than average school, but I wouldn't be surprised if conditions continue to deteriorate in the eternal quest for an improved profit margin.

[recom273]

When I first started teaching at my current school, we taught an average of 15 - 16 hours a week with one hour of gate or schoolyard duty and about 8 weeks paid vacation per year (split into October, New Years and summer breaks). Over the years, those almost ideal conditions have been eroded away. We now teach 18 - 20 hours per week, we still only have one hour of duty ..

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies - I went for an interview at a school - the assistant director said the working hours were 18 because they found this to be an effective balance between contact hours and allowing teachers time to plan stimulating lesson plans. Wow !

When I arrived I found most of the staff leaving at the next semester break - ducking out as much as possible, extending coffee times and phoning in sick on Monday morning were the norm, they certainly weren't doing any lesson plans as the teachers ( the school loved young graduates ) were heading back to start a real career.

The next year the hours went to 20 .. I decided I had had enough after a change in management and I got wind of 22 ++ hours approaching and I believe the guys are now doing close to 25 contact hours with their assembly duty and activity hour.

Sometimes you can't blame the schools.

[lostinisaan]

Last year I had my schedule changed but it was largely a wash. I lost two shitty classes but gained a more important, involved class. For me, it was a good thing.

But yeah, good schedule changes OK. Bad schedule changes buh bye...

My experience is that no one stands their ground. This is not any different from home, everyone that needs an income, submits and obeys.

This year, my departure will be after Ill reject of first contract over pay. I may need to accept second offer and just hope the hours match my rate. Unknown if hours are spelled out in contract (I forget, could look...lol) but I will make perfectly clear what classes I have no interest in March.

When my shitty schedule is produced, I'll give thirty days notice - due to being giving me classes I don't want, too many contact hours, too many classes, too many texts and the contact hour/s not matching my expectation vs salary. Done, gone.

I played the game the first year. They've had their test drive. They can pay for the Mercedes or go by a used Yugo.

Of course, they could give me what I want, no one else wants them. But. That would be too easy.

Mostly, they are going to have to meet b2250-2500 per monthly contact hour and I doubt that's gonna happen. No idea how school has the reputation it does...zombie central.

I'm becoming jaundiced. The administration is backward and myopic.

..know the price of everything and the value of nothing

One can but hope, that you are not teaching English.

One can hope that you are NOT the cynical, always boring, unsatisfied with his own life, and always other posters' words criticizing nutcase.

[stubuzz]

We have a new director and she is proposing that no holiday pay will be given if we leave the country.

[Rhys]

Which seem to be the greatest piece of work .. the male adms or the femaile adms... sons and daughters of adms..people in personell adms. and all that..

[recom273]

We have a new director and she is proposing that no holiday pay will be given if we leave the country.

Yeah, new directors are great at new suggestions .. No doubt the lost pay would end in their pocket.

How will he find out ?