Maj-Gen Sansern says government has no money to subsidize rubber price

[angiolo]

I thought Thailand had a very healthy bank balance,at least thats

what the Government was saying a few days ago,and they are

saying they are going to give cash aid to Lebanon and Jordan,

but none for the rubber tappers,I suspect in the end they will give

in and find the money,maybe some of the money they are putting

aside for the Submarines !.

regards Worgeordie

why money for ARABS and not their own people . ?

[thelonius]

wow, the empathy-vacuum this man creates must have sucked all the air out of the room...

Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem. Would you rather be (democratically) lied to ?

Would you rather have the current government copy the 'self-financing' aspects of the RPPS to lose the country another 500++ billion Baht?

"Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem"

So you believe that the spokesman for the military junta government tells nothing but the truth? Really? Mind you he was just a Colonel in the heady days of 2010 when he was telling the truth and nothing but the truth for CRES, the military arm of the abhisit government. Now he is a Major General, presumably promoted for services to veracity...........

[Assurancetourix]

It's about high time that a Thai government will say enough is enough, these handouts never end

as more and more people from all walks of life in Thailand become to depend and demand that the

government will act and be a nanny to their silly and irresponsible life style and wrong decision

when it comes to farming and surviving in this country, no other country in the world offer such support

of free money, why Thailand?

No other country( ies ) ?

USA and Bruxelles ( Europe ), for what I know, give huge subventions for their respectives farmers .

[elgordo38]

lucky a few survived, wouldnt be too good if they all died

I guess the subs, tanks, planes, missiles, guns and more troops are off the table as well. So much for the phantom enemy or is the perceived enemy from within? When I arrived the government was urging farmers to grow rubber and they went along with it much like I did when the government told me to save for my retirement. We both lost so much for trusting governments. Its no wonder farmers have switched in some cases to illegal products at least the market never changes in value. They weigh time in jail vs starvation.

Edited January 11, 2016 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

It's about high time that a Thai government will say enough is enough, these handouts never end

as more and more people from all walks of life in Thailand become to depend and demand that the

government will act and be a nanny to their silly and irresponsible life style and wrong decision

when it comes to farming and surviving in this country, no other country in the world offer such support

of free money, why Thailand?

If you do not keep the peasants happy things could reach an ugly tipping point.

[dageurreotype]

The govt will give in and partially meet the rubber farmers demands via a bunch of little give aways in order to keep the farmers muzzled.

Natch. What else they gonna do? Sod all. Big guns 1 scythes an' cycles 'non point'

Edited January 11, 2016 by dageurreotype

[elgordo38]

Ah, but they have tons of money for military toys.

And that is wrong too.. should have frozen the military budget its high enough. But to put it in perspective what the farmers are asking.. the military budget is 206 billion.. the farmers are asking for a yearly donation as big as the military budget.. also similar to the health budget.. so its not just a little bit they as.. they want too much.

I have no knowledge about how much they should or should not get but subsidies are a common tool of all governments from quantitative easing, to EU farming and all the US protective subsidies. If they all stopped and let the world economies truly run freely the world would spiral down in misery and debt and there would be even more insurrection. It needs to be thought through carefully by qualified economists but the 'head in sand' we won't intervene approach is not going to work.

That is what you say.. for the record I am against the EU and US farming subsidies too.. Costing the taxpayer too much money. The market will sort it out themselves.

Why do other jobs don't need subsidizing.. ? I don't see people working for factories coming out and demanding money. Farmers are no different and need to either change or loose it. (I am all for helping them change) There is an over supply and that will only be solved by less production or more demand.. and more demand is not happening.

So its not a head in the sand approach at all its a realistic one.

Yes things will sort themselves out. The big boys will come in and buy cheap rubber land. Chiang Rai is getting a super pig farm 128 rai fartuation and all more green house gases. Animals are among the worst air and ground polluters.

Edited January 11, 2016 by elgordo38

[mercman24]

what a bloody joke got no money for the farmers and yet the headline further down on this main page says the government is giving CASH AID to refugees in Jordan and Lebanon, sounds just like the U.K., charity begins at home, " sorry farmers,we gave all our spare cash away" (deleted)

[MorristheRunt]

Backstabing the people who brought him to power.

Diffrent coloured shirt, same ideals

after all TIT

[Jonmarleesco]

'Maj-Gen Sansern Kaewkamnerd ... urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber.' A pity the rice subsidies are still fresh in the minds of the rubber farmers. The government's preparing to give cash aid to Jordan and Lebanon for use in the refugee assistance programme won't help matters, will it?

[rubl]

wow, the empathy-vacuum this man creates must have sucked all the air out of the room...

Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem. Would you rather be (democratically) lied to ?

Would you rather have the current government copy the 'self-financing' aspects of the RPPS to lose the country another 500++ billion Baht?

"Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem"

So you believe that the spokesman for the military junta government tells nothing but the truth? Really? Mind you he was just a Colonel in the heady days of 2010 when he was telling the truth and nothing but the truth for CRES, the military arm of the abhisit government. Now he is a Major General, presumably promoted for services to veracity...........

Now before we get into 2011 again, what do you have against

""He urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber.""

[than]

This government is more realist than the former nepotism regime.....

[dbrenn]

For once, I believe him. They spent all the money on new (and highly necessary) military hardware.

[rubl]

For once, I believe him. They spent all the money on new (and highly necessary) military hardware.

I guess you didn't download and read the 30MB PDF with the Thai National Budget in brief 2016?

[tbthailand]

wow, the empathy-vacuum this man creates must have sucked all the air out of the room...

Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem. Would you rather be (democratically) lied to ?

Would you rather have the current government copy the 'self-financing' aspects of the RPPS to lose the country another 500++ billion Baht?

"Wow, honesty is no longer appreciated it would seem"

So you believe that the spokesman for the military junta government tells nothing but the truth? Really? Mind you he was just a Colonel in the heady days of 2010 when he was telling the truth and nothing but the truth for CRES, the military arm of the abhisit government. Now he is a Major General, presumably promoted for services to veracity...........

I don't know how the alleged dutch guy came to the idea that someone was even mentioning "honesty" from these military chumps... Not that they are ever honest, ... as you point out.

They show a complete disregard for the plight of the Thai people. Since they stole the limited sovereignty that was given to Thai people under the military constitution of 2007, they committed treason, gave themselves blanket amnesty for both the past and the future, and show no intention of ever returning true self-rule to the people of Thailand. Now that they have total control of the country, they spend the country's wealth for the projects which they and their backers favor, and to heck with the rest of Thailand.

Personally, I hope these morons keep it up. It is our fastest ticket to getting rid of them.

[candide]

Hmmmmm... I wonder how long this government will be able to hold this position in front of one of their main supporter base...

There's an assumption there, that the rubber tree farmers are one of the current governments main supporter bases. Would that include the rubber tree farmers in the NorthEast?

Anyway it's good that someone says

"He urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber."

You are quite right to correct my lack of precision. I was referring to the rubber plant farmers from Southern provinces (the major base for the country’s production of natural rubber), who went to protest against YL because they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price (among other reasons I guess). They also seem to be most active in campaigning for subsidies.

[DrTuner]

2016 budget used up in a week. Call Guinness.

[halloween]

Last I read farm income was about 10% of GDP - roughly the same as tourism.?

The more important statistic is the 64% population is in some form of agricultural produces from rubber, rice to fisheries. All these sectors are being hit hard and lots of unemployed and poverty stricken farmers. When the pain hits bottom and nothing to lose, this can manifest into something that can lead to dire consequences and violence. IMHO, the Junta will blink first and will bow to farmer demands albeit some compromises which will trigger other farming sectors to also press their demands. He crave for the job, now he deal with it. Karma is a bitch.

And yet other industries import labour from surrounding countries.Do you see a solution to the problem there? Probably not.

BTW as a youth it was impressed on me that primary industry ALWAYS offers the lowest wages, even lower than the military.

[LannaGuy]

This government is more realist than the former nepotism regime.....

of course it is I mean this government would never give top jobs to brothers and sisters and wives right?

[car720]

For once, I believe him. They spent all the money on new (and highly necessary) military hardware.

I guess you didn't download and read the 30MB PDF with the Thai National Budget in brief 2016?

Who would care enough to bother.

[rubl]

Hmmmmm... I wonder how long this government will be able to hold this position in front of one of their main supporter base...

There's an assumption there, that the rubber tree farmers are one of the current governments main supporter bases. Would that include the rubber tree farmers in the NorthEast?

Anyway it's good that someone says

"He urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber."

You are quite right to correct my lack of precision. I was referring to the rubber plant farmers from Southern provinces (the major base for the country’s production of natural rubber), who went to protest against YL because they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price (among other reasons I guess). They also seem to be most active in campaigning for subsidies.

"they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price"

I assume you can support this statement with some reputable links ?

BTW

2013-09-23

"Thailand’s decision to expand subsidies for rice and rubber farmers to quell protests is undermining efforts to control rising debt, even as governments in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia cut back support programs."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia

I guess also the ungrateful rice farmers wanted to ouster Ms. Yingluck?

[rubl]

For once, I believe him. They spent all the money on new (and highly necessary) military hardware.

I guess you didn't download and read the 30MB PDF with the Thai National Budget in brief 2016?

Who would care enough to bother.

Well, one would expect at least those who's posts suggest a level of understanding and knowledge of the financial situation the government is in, would have digested the document and maybe even gone through the dozen or so other document (which are provided in Thai only).

[Eric Loh]

Last I read farm income was about 10% of GDP - roughly the same as tourism.?

The more important statistic is the 64% population is in some form of agricultural produces from rubber, rice to fisheries. All these sectors are being hit hard and lots of unemployed and poverty stricken farmers. When the pain hits bottom and nothing to lose, this can manifest into something that can lead to dire consequences and violence. IMHO, the Junta will blink first and will bow to farmer demands albeit some compromises which will trigger other farming sectors to also press their demands. He crave for the job, now he deal with it. Karma is a bitch.

And yet other industries import labour from surrounding countries.Do you see a solution to the problem there? Probably not.

BTW as a youth it was impressed on me that primary industry ALWAYS offers the lowest wages, even lower than the military.

Like I said, he craved the power and he inherited the resposibilities that goes with the job; not mine to provide solutions. Anyway, it's also the failings of the Dem MPs for not helping their constituencies to attract more investments for down stream rubber processing.

People in uniforms don't depend on their wages to survive and be wealthy. Thought you knew that.

[candide]

Hmmmmm... I wonder how long this government will be able to hold this position in front of one of their main supporter base...

There's an assumption there, that the rubber tree farmers are one of the current governments main supporter bases. Would that include the rubber tree farmers in the NorthEast?

Anyway it's good that someone says

"He urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber."

You are quite right to correct my lack of precision. I was referring to the rubber plant farmers from Southern provinces (the major base for the country’s production of natural rubber), who went to protest against YL because they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price (among other reasons I guess). They also seem to be most active in campaigning for subsidies.

"they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price"

I assume you can support this statement with some reputable links ?

BTW

2013-09-23

"Thailand’s decision to expand subsidies for rice and rubber farmers to quell protests is undermining efforts to control rising debt, even as governments in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia cut back support programs."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia

I guess also the ungrateful rice farmers wanted to ouster Ms. Yingluck?

Apparently you consider Bloomberg as reputable enough, so here it is!

"Manoon joined the protests in Bangkok against Yingluck’s government that eventually led to the military takeover after protest leaders said getting rid of her would lead to higher rubber prices. Now, he says he and his friends feel betrayed.“It’s like a broken promise,” he said. “They don’t care about us at all.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-21/happiness-eludes-thailand-s-divided-regions-as-farmers-struggle

[Singharh]

I'm sorry,it's not only emerging markets who subsidize their farmers.Farmers in Europe are heavily subsidized by their governments...

[dageurreotype]

I'm sorry,it's not only emerging markets who subsidize their farmers.Farmers in Europe are heavily subsidized by their governments...

And loathed for it. Wine 'lakes'? Butter 'mountains'? et al ..

[rubl]

There's an assumption there, that the rubber tree farmers are one of the current governments main supporter bases. Would that include the rubber tree farmers in the NorthEast?

Anyway it's good that someone says

"He urged rubber farmers to understand that rubber price slump was due to several factors. Among them are global oil price cuts, oversupply of rubber and competition from synthetic rubber."

You are quite right to correct my lack of precision. I was referring to the rubber plant farmers from Southern provinces (the major base for the country’s production of natural rubber), who went to protest against YL because they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price (among other reasons I guess). They also seem to be most active in campaigning for subsidies.

"they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price"

I assume you can support this statement with some reputable links ?

BTW

2013-09-23

"Thailand’s decision to expand subsidies for rice and rubber farmers to quell protests is undermining efforts to control rising debt, even as governments in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia cut back support programs."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia

I guess also the ungrateful rice farmers wanted to ouster Ms. Yingluck?

Apparently you consider Bloomberg as reputable enough, so here it is!

"Manoon joined the protests in Bangkok against Yingluck’s government that eventually led to the military takeover after protest leaders said getting rid of her would lead to higher rubber prices. Now, he says he and his friends feel betrayed.“It’s like a broken promise,” he said. “They don’t care about us at all.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-21/happiness-eludes-thailand-s-divided-regions-as-farmers-struggle

There is a difference between the rubber farmers protesting for higher prices and those who joined the PDRC led protests to oust the Yingluck administration

"With the market price (around 70 baht a kg back then in 2013) and the subsidies, the farmers got between 80 to 90 Baht a kg. While the protests continued and even got more violent, enough farmers accepted it and with the remaining farmers losing goodwill after the violence, they essentially ended the protest."

http://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/with-declining-rubber-prices-what-will-rubber-farmers-do-in-thailand/

[rubl]

I'm sorry,it's not only emerging markets who subsidize their farmers.Farmers in Europe are heavily subsidized by their governments...

Half of the EC budget goes to agriculture, helping depressed areas, etc., etc. That's 75 billion EURO.

Mind you that's half of the 1.4% of the 28 member states' GNI. The European Community has a wee bit more money to spend on this apart from having a proper administration and auditing system.

[candide]

You are quite right to correct my lack of precision. I was referring to the rubber plant farmers from Southern provinces (the major base for the country’s production of natural rubber), who went to protest against YL because they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price (among other reasons I guess). They also seem to be most active in campaigning for subsidies.

"they had been told that ousting her it would lead to higher rubber price"

I assume you can support this statement with some reputable links ?

BTW

2013-09-23

"Thailand’s decision to expand subsidies for rice and rubber farmers to quell protests is undermining efforts to control rising debt, even as governments in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia cut back support programs."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-22/thai-farmers-hooked-on-subsidies-test-yingluck-southeast-asia

I guess also the ungrateful rice farmers wanted to ouster Ms. Yingluck?

Apparently you consider Bloomberg as reputable enough, so here it is!

"Manoon joined the protests in Bangkok against Yingluck’s government that eventually led to the military takeover after protest leaders said getting rid of her would lead to higher rubber prices. Now, he says he and his friends feel betrayed.“It’s like a broken promise,” he said. “They don’t care about us at all.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-21/happiness-eludes-thailand-s-divided-regions-as-farmers-struggle

There is a difference between the rubber farmers protesting for higher prices and those who joined the PDRC led protests to oust the Yingluck administration

"With the market price (around 70 baht a kg back then in 2013) and the subsidies, the farmers got between 80 to 90 Baht a kg. While the protests continued and even got more violent, enough farmers accepted it and with the remaining farmers losing goodwill after the violence, they essentially ended the protest."

http://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/with-declining-rubber-prices-what-will-rubber-farmers-do-in-thailand/

The quote I put explicitly refers to protests aiming at getting rid of YL, not the protests for higher price that occured in 2013.

Anyway my initial questionning was:

"I wonder how long this government will be able to hold this position in front of one of their main supporter base" (precised later: rubber plant farmers from the South)

Does anyone have a comment to write about it?

[robblok]

The quote I put explicitly refers to protests aiming at getting rid of YL, not the protests for higher price that occured in 2013.

Anyway my initial questionning was:

"I wonder how long this government will be able to hold this position in front of one of their main supporter base" (precised later: rubber plant farmers from the South)

Does anyone have a comment to write about it?

They are the army... they can hold this forever if they wanted, as long as they are as strict as they are now they can prevent masses of people forming and blocking roads and stuff. I doubt people really want to go up against the army as long as they have loyal troops and guns protesters don't stand a chance. Also now they go after the leaders and that makes a big difference before the leaders thought they were immune and now its them that get arrested.. so they are al ot more careful now that they can''t have others take the fall for them.