Laws about who gets what in case of a divorce

[carpediem86]

Hello there, I am looking up some more about all the rules and laws around marriage. I am married (not legally) and we plan to legalize it later when we move from Thailand to Sweden (my home country, and my Thai wife likes it there even if it it a bit cold). It would be some extra paperwork and things to do to legalize it here. As I understand the things we owned before the marriage is legalized, we would keep separate in case of a divorce. My apartment for example. I suppose that it is when we legalize it that it starts counting?

What I am thinking about is how it works with money earned while married. We are very happy together and I think it can last a long time, hopefully for life, but I always like to know what could be.

So for example if I am working now for 3-4 more years while she is learning Swedish and adding up some things in Sweden to her university degree, then I would be earning most of the money for those years. Lets say I pay off 400k baht on my apartment loan from money I earn during those years. If the bad thing would happen and we break up, can she then claim that I should pay her 200k baht? Or maybe more since my total salary during that 3-4 years is much higher.

She is really the best and never asks for money or other things that I hear is quite common for Thai women. She is working full time and earning a okay salary for Thailand (27k) and I have no worries about this subject, just want to know some more. We are both under 30.

[MaeJoMTB]

Stuff in Sweden is covered by Swedish law,

Stuff in Thailand is covered by Thai law.

If you are in Sweden, ask a Swedish lawyer, not us, we don't know anything about Sweden.

PS

You aren't married.

She is currently just a gf.

[carpediem86]

Okay thank you, I didn't know that. Then I will check the rules in Sweden instead.

And yes, I know we are not really married yet according to the law. But people here view us as married after the ceremony and we think about ourselves as married.

[MaeJoMTB]

Okay thank you, I didn't know that. Then I will check the rules in Sweden instead.

And yes, I know we are not really married yet according to the law. But people here view us as married after the ceremony and we think about ourselves as married.

No government official anywhere in the world considers you married.

Swedish immigration, Swedish government, not married.

Thai immigration, Thai government, not married.

Nobody else's opinion matters.

[carpediem86]

No government official anywhere in the world considers you married.

Swedish immigration, Swedish government, not married.

Thai immigration, Thai government, not married.

Nobody else's opinion matters.

I understand that, but thank you. I also know that if we legalize it here in Thailand it will count in Sweden as well, but we will probably wait until the end of the year when we both are in Sweden. Now we are in Thailand. For us right now we have no need to hassle with the paperwork and translations since we concider ourselves married.

[MaeJoMTB]

Let's hope Swedish immigration accept 'we consider ourselves married' as enough to prove an ongoing relationship when you apply for her VISA.

I'm fairly sure they would rather see a Thai marriage certificate dated 1 year prior to that application.

But if you're happy, what else matters.

[carpediem86]

Let's hope Swedish immigration accept 'we consider ourselves married' as enough to prove an ongoing relationship when you apply for her VISA.

I'm fairly sure they would rather see a Thai marriage certificate dated 1 year prior to that application.

But if you're happy, what else matters.

Yeah, most important that we are happy. And as you can see I like to check how things work even before I need to, just to know. I did the same with the residence permit (Visa) to go to Sweden. When we applied for it we hadn't yet decided to marry. I still asked them about this back then, and in Sweden it doesn't matter if you're married or not to get the recidence permit. It is common in Sweden to have a family, kids, and never marry. We will not get through any faster, married or not.

[happylarry]

Forgive me for saying this but if you have such huge doubts about marrying this lady then why are you even considering doing so.

You are trying to defend your reasons for putting it off till some future date, and also you are already worrying about what she will claim off you when you split up in 3-4 years. And you aren't even worrying about your Pre-nuptial assets but what you will be earning while you are together and she is studying.

This is not the way to view a truly happy relationship, if you "loved " her then your feelings of wanting her to be part of your life overrules everything.

HL

[carpediem86]

Forgive me for saying this but if you have such huge doubts about marrying this lady then why are you even considering doing so.

You are trying to defend your reasons for putting it off till some future date, and also you are already worrying about what she will claim off you when you split up in 3-4 years. And you aren't even worrying about your Pre-nuptial assets but what you will be earning while you are together and she is studying.

This is not the way to view a truly happy relationship, if you "loved " her then your feelings of wanting her to be part of your life overrules everything.

HL

I understand how you mean, and I know that I can be a bit too focused on details and about the future. This is not about her, but about me wanting to know what can happen in the future. I would want to know this with anyone. And I am not just concidering marrying her. I am not having any doubts. We already had the ceremony and we just didn't feel like translating papers and doing extra paperwork since it would not change anything for us right now, so we didn't legalize it yet. Is it really that strange or uncommon to wait a little bit with that part after having the ceremony?

Or in another way of trying to explain. For me money is separate from a relationship. This is common in Sweden. For example my dad and his wife have separate economy even after living together for a really long time. But of course they share many things since they own a house together and don't mind to pay for the other. I have no problem paying for something for her, or for us, from my money. But for me I like to learn about rules/laws and also to take tips from others, especially since money seems to be something many people with Thai relationsships have some trouble with. Maybe for you it means that you don't love your wife/girlfriend if you check up the laws about both marriage and divorce, but not for me.

[happylarry]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

[carpediem86]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

Well, I don't really need to explain all about our love here, we know how we feel about each other already. But it's kinda interesting about how different people (me and you) can think about the same thing (the legal part of marriage). To learn more about others points of view always interests me. You don't need to answer any more if you don't want to. I got my answer to this threads subject in the first post already.

"when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters." Nothing else is a lot of things. Maybe you're right. Someone I know a bit, his wife moved out and she started living with another man and he still loved her and they got back together later. I hope I love her that much, but in my view I don't know until something like that happens. It's easy to say, and I hope I could forgive such a thing because of our love, but if something serious didn't happen for you two, then you don't know for sure either that really nothing else matters.

For me it is not so important with marriage. What I feel for her is the same as before we had our Thai wedding ceremony, and signing a paper will not change our love. Actually it's not that important for her either, it was way more important for her family, and my mother. For them this ceremony was the important part, as everyone now see us as married. They don't care much about if we sign the paper now here in Thailand or a bit later in Sweden. That part is the thing that change what laws applies, and for our families the ceremony is the real wedding and the thing they can participate in and the thing that changes how people see us (now they see us as married). I would be as happy together with her without marriage also, and can have kids and live together for the rest of our lives without it. But now we did chose to marry.

For you the oath and signing the paper seems to be the most important part. I know people who chose to only do like that and have no ceremony to save some money, because they don't care much about the ceremony. That's fine too, not my style. If a couple is happy with only signing paper and saying an oath it's okay, just not so nice to friends/family who could really miss the ceremony part. The important thing is that they can still love each other, even if they choose to show it in another way than you're used to. Many people now don't ever get married (at least in Sweden) but still love each other the same, and have kids, and live together happily. So try to not think that people don't love each other, just because they don't do it the way you want or the way most people do.

[meatboy]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

looks like another one heading for the funny farm.as you say he's more worried about what he's got to loose than making a decent woman out of her.

if he loves here that much and is happy well do the right thing by marrying her,its not difficult just go to the local ampher all done in 30minutes.

one thing you havent mentioned is the SIN-SOD if she like you say has a uni.degree and you want to know if mom and pa will seek compensation the answer is

YES YES YES

if you think by living with her that its the same as being married not in thailand it aint.

as yorkshire folk would say, ney lad thou is living over brush.

[carpediem86]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

looks like another one heading for the funny farm.as you say he's more worried about what he's got to loose than making a decent woman out of her.

if he loves here that much and is happy well do the right thing by marrying her,its not difficult just go to the local ampher all done in 30minutes.

one thing you havent mentioned is the SIN-SOD if she like you say has a uni.degree and you want to know if mom and pa will seek compensation the answer is

YES YES YES

if you think by living with her that its the same as being married not in thailand it aint.

as yorkshire folk would say, ney lad thou is living over brush.

This will be my last post in this thread unless someone brings up something interesting to discuss since I already got my answer to my questions in the first post. For us the signing of the papers is not connected to if we love each other or not, even if the few ones answering here seems to not understand this. So then you can do it your way. I try to not be mean to people who choose to live or do things in a way that I don't agree with, and I think everyone should try that.

"all done in 30minutes." It seems to be possible to do it in just one full day if we wake up really early and take the first morning bus to Bangkok. And pay around 4-5000b in total for the stamp in the embassy, translation of papers and so on. We talked about it just breifly and said maybe we should make it legal when we move instead. She kinda wants to take my last name, so she would have to make a new passport and change the application we have ongoing already for her moving to live in Sweden. That will take a lot of paperwork and time also. It is not a 30 min thing.. probably we are waiting more because it's not so important for us signing the papers, and also a little bit because it will be easier to do in Sweden.

http://www.thethailandlife.com/married-thailand-diy-day

"SIN-SOD if she like you say has a uni.degree and you want to know if mom and pa will seek compensation the answer is

YES YES YES"

I beleive you mean that her family would want to keep the Sin Sod? You don't know her family. I got the Sin Sod back after our wedding day. Her mom also helped to pay for a bit of the wedding cost since she invited many more people than planned and the lunch cost extra. Not all Thai people only care about money. It's very sweet that they handled it this way since they are not rich. (Of course not poor either since they could get their children through university)

[happylarry]

For you the oath and signing the paper seems to be the most important part. I know people who chose to only do like that and have no ceremony to save some money, because they don't care much about the ceremony. That's fine too, not my style. If a couple is happy with only signing paper and saying an oath it's okay, just not so nice to friends/family who could really miss the ceremony part. The important thing is that they can still love each other, even if they choose to show it in another way than you're used to. Many people now don't ever get married (at least in Sweden) but still love each other the same, and have kids, and live together happily. So try to not think that people don't love each other, just because they don't do it the way you want or the way most people do.

You are quite wrong my friend, signing the paper is not the most important part, but you keep insisting you are married!!!

You seem to have things around the wrong way, to get "married" in an amphur costs next to nothing, its the big family party inviting the whole village that costs a fortune.

Can I ask you a question.....if, heaven forbid, that you have a big ruck in a weeks time and decide to split up then where and how do you get your divorce, if as you say you are married.

I honestly feel for you and truly wish you both have a good life and get everything you want and I do accept that your feelings for each other are sincere but I just wish you would accept the facts for what they are and use the right terminology.

HL

[happylarry]

I just read your last post and it makes a lot of sense the way you put it about the expense and as you say it does not matter anyway, just don't say you are married...lol

Good luck mate.

HL

[carpediem86]

Okay, I'm sorry about the terminology, I see that it caused some missunderstandings. As I explained earlier for us, and for our families, the important thing is the marriage ceremony where some members from our families even met just for the first time. It makes a stronger bond between our families. People here around us and our families/friends now see us as housband and wife, and we do too. Legally we are not married, so the few extra laws about marriage doens't apply yet and of course I understand that. But we see ourselves as married (and people we know in real life), so I guess that's why I wrote with the incorrect terminology. Thank you Larry for your kind wish and I hope the same for you!

[meatboy]

I just read your last post and it makes a lot of sense the way you put it about the expense and as you say it does not matter anyway, just don't say you are married...lol

Good luck mate.

HL

well HL its not him that needs good luck ITS HER.

and for him remember what tony blair said, EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION.

meatboy married over 25yrs.happy as a pig in poop.and dont have sweet fanny adams.

[scorecard]

Forgive me for saying this but if you have such huge doubts about marrying this lady then why are you even considering doing so.

You are trying to defend your reasons for putting it off till some future date, and also you are already worrying about what she will claim off you when you split up in 3-4 years. And you aren't even worrying about your Pre-nuptial assets but what you will be earning while you are together and she is studying.

This is not the way to view a truly happy relationship, if you "loved " her then your feelings of wanting her to be part of your life overrules everything.

HL

I understand how you mean, and I know that I can be a bit too focused on details and about the future. This is not about her, but about me wanting to know what can happen in the future. I would want to know this with anyone. And I am not just concidering marrying her. I am not having any doubts. We already had the ceremony and we just didn't feel like translating papers and doing extra paperwork since it would not change anything for us right now, so we didn't legalize it yet. Is it really that strange or uncommon to wait a little bit with that part after having the ceremony?

Or in another way of trying to explain. For me money is separate from a relationship. This is common in Sweden. For example my dad and his wife have separate economy even after living together for a really long time. But of course they share many things since they own a house together and don't mind to pay for the other. I have no problem paying for something for her, or for us, from my money. But for me I like to learn about rules/laws and also to take tips from others, especially since money seems to be something many people with Thai relationsships have some trouble with. Maybe for you it means that you don't love your wife/girlfriend if you check up the laws about both marriage and divorce, but not for me.

Actually I like his intent to fully understand. I'm the same, I always ask many questions, appraoch the subject from different angles, I want to be sure I fully understand the whole thing. In my case it's from my upbringing, my parents carfeully pushed me to ensure I understand.

[bridge2bridge]

In Australia married or de facto she gets HALF of everything.

A bloody rip off.

That is why i would never take one there.

UNLESS i do a PRENUP.

[stgrhe]

Okay thank you, I didn't know that. Then I will check the rules in Sweden instead.

And yes, I know we are not really married yet according to the law. But people here view us as married after the ceremony and we think about ourselves as married.

No government official anywhere in the world considers you married.

Swedish immigration, Swedish government, not married.

Thai immigration, Thai government, not married.

Nobody else's opinion matters.

Not correct. In Sweden living together has almost the same merrit as if one is married. It is called "Sambo" and presumes that the couple are registered at the same address and live there under "marriage-like" circumstances. There is, however, one difference as "sambo-couples" do not inhariage one another, but in case of a divorce the assits should be split 50/50.

[stgrhe]

Assits in Sweden are split 50/50 if a couble have been living together for some time, typically sex months or longer, under marriage-like circumstances. The house, apartment or condominium will be going to the part that is deemed to have most need for it. Hence, a guardian parent will allways keep it.

[ozyjon]

Why even bother reading any of it,,

laws ? what laws ? who do you think

you are, this is not your country,

you are nada, zilch, niet, stick your

head between your legs and kiss it

all goodbye.

[bazza40]

Simple. Don't get married. If you really love each other, your marital status should not matter.

From the initial post, it's obvious you have some concerns re distribution of assets if the relationship breaks down.

Again, simple. If it's a defacto relationship, there are various grey areas in some ( not all ) countries which determine who gets what.

Once you are married and the marriage is recognised in any country, the laws of each country you reside with respect to asset distribution in the event of a relationship breakdown are set in stone.

[catman20]

I SEE TROUBLE AHEAD

[catman20]

Simple. Don't get married. If you really love each other, your marital status should not matter.

From the initial post, it's obvious you have some concerns re distribution of assets if the relationship breaks down.

Again, simple. If it's a defacto relationship, there are various grey areas in some ( not all ) countries which determine who gets what.

Once you are married and the marriage is recognised in any country, the laws of each country you reside with respect to asset distribution in the event of a relationship breakdown are set in stone.

OP listen to this man

[Dumbastheycome]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

Well, I don't really need to explain all about our love here, we know how we feel about each other already. But it's kinda interesting about how different people (me and you) can think about the same thing (the legal part of marriage). To learn more about others points of view always interests me. You don't need to answer any more if you don't want to. I got my answer to this threads subject in the first post already.

"when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters." Nothing else is a lot of things. Maybe you're right. Someone I know a bit, his wife moved out and she started living with another man and he still loved her and they got back together later. I hope I love her that much, but in my view I don't know until something like that happens. It's easy to say, and I hope I could forgive such a thing because of our love, but if something serious didn't happen for you two, then you don't know for sure either that really nothing else matters.

For me it is not so important with marriage. What I feel for her is the same as before we had our Thai wedding ceremony, and signing a paper will not change our love. Actually it's not that important for her either, it was way more important for her family, and my mother. For them this ceremony was the important part, as everyone now see us as married. They don't care much about if we sign the paper now here in Thailand or a bit later in Sweden. That part is the thing that change what laws applies, and for our families the ceremony is the real wedding and the thing they can participate in and the thing that changes how people see us (now they see us as married). I would be as happy together with her without marriage also, and can have kids and live together for the rest of our lives without it. But now we did chose to marry.

For you the oath and signing the paper seems to be the most important part. I know people who chose to only do like that and have no ceremony to save some money, because they don't care much about the ceremony. That's fine too, not my style. If a couple is happy with only signing paper and saying an oath it's okay, just not so nice to friends/family who could really miss the ceremony part. The important thing is that they can still love each other, even if they choose to show it in another way than you're used to. Many people now don't ever get married (at least in Sweden) but still love each other the same, and have kids, and live together happily. So try to not think that people don't love each other, just because they don't do it the way you want or the way most people do.

Why consider "formal " marriage? In Thailand informal marriage carries real no mandatory asset liability. But I presume "de facto " marriage in SWeden events in the same status as formal marriage in legal terms? You can continue to avoid "paper work" issues until you "divorce" !

[louse1953]

Stuff in Sweden is covered by Swedish law,

Stuff in Thailand is covered by Thai law.

If you are in Sweden, ask a Swedish lawyer, not us, we don't know anything about Sweden.

PS

You aren't married.

She is currently just a gf.

Very insular view.Your we doesn't cover the thousands on this forum,some who are Swedish,divorced Swedes and maybe a Swedish lawyer and plenty of bush/lay Swedish lawyers.

ps He is going to get married,so she is his fiance.

[louse1953]

Okay thank you, I didn't know that. Then I will check the rules in Sweden instead.

And yes, I know we are not really married yet according to the law. But people here view us as married after the ceremony and we think about ourselves as married.

No government official anywhere in the world considers you married.

Swedish immigration, Swedish government, not married.

Thai immigration, Thai government, not married.

Nobody else's opinion matters.

The girls family and friends,and the both of them consider they are married,probably a religious service.That's who really matters.The rest is just paperwork.

[louse1953]

For a start you have not undergone a marriage ceremony, you are not married until you take the oath or whatever and sign the paper. All you have done is pay for a party with your in-laws. You keep saying about the translating paperwork as if it's a big and complicated deal, it's not, you get a translating shop to do it and they simply post it to you completed and stamped, so you see that's not a very good reason for not doing the right thing.

But you miss my point about the love thing......when you do find it my friend then nothing else matters.

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

HL

looks like another one heading for the funny farm.as you say he's more worried about what he's got to loose than making a decent woman out of her.

if he loves here that much and is happy well do the right thing by marrying her,its not difficult just go to the local ampher all done in 30minutes.

one thing you havent mentioned is the SIN-SOD if she like you say has a uni.degree and you want to know if mom and pa will seek compensation the answer is

YES YES YES

if you think by living with her that its the same as being married not in thailand it aint.

as yorkshire folk would say, ney lad thou is living over brush.

You don't know much about Thailand.Millions of Thais are living together and are considered married by their peers.She would be a decent women already,a piece of paper is not going to matter either way,even with Swedish Embassy who accept de facto marrige.Sweden is a far more enlightened country than most,as is their Scandy neighbors.Sin sod is none of your business and not relevant to the post.Good on the op for planning ahead.

[louse1953]

In Australia married or de facto she gets HALF of everything.

A bloody rip off.

That is why i would never take one there.

UNLESS i do a PRENUP.

Not true.She gets half of everything after your married/de facto.What you had before is yours and same with her.Prenups are useless,you can't sign away your rights under Australian law.