U.S. father fatally shoots son mistaken for intruder

[chuckd]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

...and my experience is you are in the minority.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Never owning or firing a firearm, never having been to the US and not likely to ever go and having no idea what the Constitution means to many of us.

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

I must admit I did make a couple of silly posts on the Johnny Depp led dog invasion of Australia but hopefully this will not be held against me.

I've always been an advocate of the Abe Lincoln quote...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Good advice for many on this forum to follow.

[AdamRich]

Yes and I would imagine the purpose of a run of the mill burglary in a residential area being theft and getting out before you are noticed. Not touting a gun and killing the occupant because of pure evil and malice.

That was in the days of old. Today's run of the mill is the home invasion, where they want the people to be home so they can drive them to the ATM and get money.

[Colabamumbai]

You know, Obama does have a point?

Yes but the gun lobbyists have more points and more dollars and we know that Americans like to kill people with guns.

[Publicus]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

Yes we do indeed but no one cares if he doesn't give a chuck about the gun views of foreigners.

We post to a www discussion board where the Forum requirement is English and the great majority of us are people of a native English language country. Almost all of us are in a foreign country.

The Forum clientele can be characterised by some as the Anglosphere. The poster chuckd has been terribly slow on the uptake however.

It is also unmistakeble the poster cares a lot what foreigners think, believe, write, argue concerning gun violence in the USA. Very much cares. He's always carping about it. Strange priority I'd say, to criticise the critics of gun violence.

[White Christmas13]

Well just read this to understand

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/why-the-gun-industry-has-us-over-a-barrel/news-story/e4b72289e90b5ceda7778208410d1d99

[aTomsLife]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

Yes we do indeed but no one cares if he doesn't give a chuck about the gun views of foreigners.

We post to a www discussion board where the Forum requirement is English and the great majority of us are people of a native English language country. Almost all of us are in a foreign country.

The Forum clientele can be characterised by some as the Anglosphere. The poster chuckd has been terribly slow on the uptake however.

It is also unmistakeble the poster cares a lot what foreigners think, believe, write, argue concerning gun violence in the USA. Very much cares. He's always carping about it. Strange priority I'd say, to criticise the critics of gun violence.

I take no issue with non-Americans criticizing U.S. gun violence per se. But when people approach the discussion as if outlawing guns is an option, then they lose all credibility.

Another civil war would start over night, if the government even hinted at taking away people's guns. So, really, what's the point of bringing it up then? So they can harp again and again about how superior their cultures/countries are to ours? Because that's all they really seem to be about, and in that context, I agree with ChuckD: I'm really not interested in what they think.

[wabothai]

Play with guns and u kill people.

Drive cars like idiots and u kill people.

Serve pa-ra on your son-tam and u kill people.

Sell alcohol and cigarettes and u kill people.

Clever Idea: Why not just ban the whole lot? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886144-us-father-fatally-shoots-son-mistaken-for-intruder/?p=10303837

I can drive like a f1 racer, but because some morons cannot drive fast I have to follow the regulations.

I can take drugs like a champion, but because some morons can't I cannot buy them in shops.

In USA Kinder chocolate are forbiddent because some kids swallow them and shock, so all the kids cannot buy them.

In USA you cannot eat raw milk cheese, because "it is not safe"

You cannot drink before majority, but you can buy a rifle for your 12yrs old kid.....

You cannot have an abortion before medical check, discussion with a shrink, face the bigots raw of shame...but you can buy guns in Wallmart.

Smoking law is harsher than gun selling

Oh and do not forget the main thing : guns are designed to kill or aim...nothing else, not to open beers...

Cars are not designed to kill

IMHO guns are designed to protect (as are armies, medicine, chemotherapy, safety training, etc.). Not such an alien thought.

Even though we have these things designed to protect, they are still misused by evil and incompetent people.

BTW, I am all for better control which weeds out the cons and certifiable idiots. The best we can do. However, you ban all weapons and you end up with a defenseless crowd at a Paris concert.

Just imagine, they all had a gun.

[oneday]

There you go NRA, see what a wonderful toy the gun is in the hands of an untrained person.

[CMNightRider]

This may come as a shock to the hysterical anti-gun posters but guns are not going to be confiscated from law abiding citizens in America, because this father shot his son.

[dutchisaan]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

...and my experience is you are in the minority.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Never owning or firing a firearm, never having been to the US and not likely to ever go and having no idea what the Constitution means to many of us.

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

I must admit I did make a couple of silly posts on the Johnny Depp led dog invasion of Australia but hopefully this will not be held against me.

I've always been an advocate of the Abe Lincoln quote...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Good advice for many on this forum to follow.

Follow your own advice, be silent!

[dexterm]

This may come as a shock to the hysterical anti-gun posters but guns are not going to be confiscated from law abiding citizens in America, because this father shot his son.

I'll bet the father wishes someone had confiscated his gun though.

So sad.

[NeverSure]

For every murder or tragic accident, we probably could collect a much higher stack of life-saving anecdotes because a policeman or citizen was armed.

Probably not, otherwise the NRA would have created a website only for this

Dream on. We're both talking in probabilities on this point, without facts. But I suspect I'm right. IMHO. :-)

Well all in all, just look at the link i posted a bit earlier...you will have a big part of the answer...

I am not talking about probabilities.

If a lobby like the NRA does not setup a website or any kind of thread which list all the crimes prevented by guns, and if the case were true (more prevention than accidents) well I will soon ask to be a consultant, cause it's something that every pro guns would like to throw at the face of people like me...but there is not...strange no?

There are such sites by the NRA. Many Americans defend themselves, their families or even a complete stranger with a gun. The MSM and other blinded people aren't interested in any such facts, however. They are cowards who run on emotions.

BTW I feel terrible about the OP incident and I feel that the father was stupid, but it was one person in 330 million. I can accept those odds in exchange for my freedom.

The Armed Citizen

The Armed Citizen II

Edited January 13, 2016 by NeverSure

[HerbalEd]

Hell, the ARA is even fighting against requiring background checks on people on the no-fly list.

[MiKT]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

"Mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear"? Sorry, in big cities like Cincinnati there is real crime and it is completely plausible that someone would break into a house to steal or worse. It's ridiculous to assume that the choice was defend yourself or simply let them steal something...because you can't predict what the criminal(s) in the basement wants, will be satisfied with or to what extent they will to get it.

In another country - the first impulse is to run because people are defenseless. Just like the first impulse is to stand by and do nothing when one of your soldiers is run down in the middle of the street then hacked to death by two men with machetes. I'm sure they all called the police so why didn't the police stop it? Where were the police in Paris? Where were the police in Cologne? As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away".

And for the posters here who want to take this tragedy and say stupid things like "wingnuts will say the kid should have been armed too"...that's just sad.

No that's sarcasm.

[MiKT]

Play with guns and u kill people.

Drive cars like idiots and u kill people.

Serve pa-ra on your son-tam and u kill people.

Sell alcohol and cigarettes and u kill people.

Clever Idea: Why not just ban the whole lot? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/886144-us-father-fatally-shoots-son-mistaken-for-intruder/?p=10303837

I can drive like a f1 racer, but because some morons cannot drive fast I have to follow the regulations.

I can take drugs like a champion, but because some morons can't I cannot buy them in shops.

In USA Kinder chocolate are forbiddent because some kids swallow them and shock, so all the kids cannot buy them.

In USA you cannot eat raw milk cheese, because "it is not safe"

You cannot drink before majority, but you can buy a rifle for your 12yrs old kid.....

You cannot have an abortion before medical check, discussion with a shrink, face the bigots raw of shame...but you can buy guns in Wallmart.

Smoking law is harsher than gun selling

Oh and do not forget the main thing : guns are designed to kill or aim...nothing else, not to open beers...

Cars are not designed to kill

IMHO guns are designed to protect (as are armies, medicine, chemotherapy, safety training, etc.). Not such an alien thought.

Even though we have these things designed to protect, they are still misused by evil and incompetent people.

BTW, I am all for better control which weeds out the cons and certifiable idiots. The best we can do. However, you ban all weapons and you end up with a defenseless crowd at a Paris concert.

Such nonsense, how many concerts have you been to where everybody was armed?

I mean real concerts, not yr actual ill billy o downs.

The French police are well armed, but they were shot down in a well planned attack, as with Charley.

You can't spend your life on-guard against nutters like that which only happens very, very occasionally. But you can reduce the 30,000 gun related deaths per year in the US by some sensible controls.

Blimey, don't you lot get bored with the same old crap every week.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

...and my experience is you are in the minority.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Never owning or firing a firearm, never having been to the US and not likely to ever go and having no idea what the Constitution means to many of us.

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

I must admit I did make a couple of silly posts on the Johnny Depp led dog invasion of Australia but hopefully this will not be held against me.

I've always been an advocate of the Abe Lincoln quote...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Good advice for many on this forum to follow.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Nobody is doubting you are suspicous toward people who read book and went t school...

[GeorgesAbitbol]

For every murder or tragic accident, we probably could collect a much higher stack of life-saving anecdotes because a policeman or citizen was armed.

Probably not, otherwise the NRA would have created a website only for this

Dream on. We're both talking in probabilities on this point, without facts. But I suspect I'm right. IMHO. :-)

Well all in all, just look at the link i posted a bit earlier...you will have a big part of the answer...

I am not talking about probabilities.

If a lobby like the NRA does not setup a website or any kind of thread which list all the crimes prevented by guns, and if the case were true (more prevention than accidents) well I will soon ask to be a consultant, cause it's something that every pro guns would like to throw at the face of people like me...but there is not...strange no?

There are such sites by the NRA. Many Americans defend themselves, their families or even a complete stranger with a gun. The MSM and other blinded people aren't interested in any such facts, however. They are cowards who run on emotions.

BTW I feel terrible about the OP incident and I feel that the father was stupid, but it was one person in 330 million. I can accept those odds in exchange for my freedom.

The Armed Citizen

The Armed Citizen II

A comparison between people saved by gun owners and those killed daily by guns owners.

I highly doubt there is, otherwise the NRA would have less fanboys

And if you look at 2015 it is much more than 1 people on 330 million which kill someone with a by mistake or out of rage or drunkness every day

Edited January 13, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[MiKT]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

...and my experience is you are in the minority.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Never owning or firing a firearm, never having been to the US and not likely to ever go and having no idea what the Constitution means to many of us.

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

I must admit I did make a couple of silly posts on the Johnny Depp led dog invasion of Australia but hopefully this will not be held against me.

I've always been an advocate of the Abe Lincoln quote...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Good advice for many on this forum to follow.

Na, I still hold it against you, but I got banned for expressing my opinion of your silliness a little to pointedly. You silly-billy you.

But to the case in point. We non-Americans could not give a monkies what you think of our opinions. We KNOW that your constitution is a bit of paper with no more ligitimacy than section 44. Its 200 years out of date and it needs changing.

Change it and stop making fools of yourselves in the eyes of the world.

Well done Obama, small acorns and all that jazz.

Edited January 13, 2016 by MiKT

[MiKT]

Another day, another parent shoots his kid by mistake in the good ole US of A

Yes but if the son was armed he would have being able to defend himself

Well done mate, sarcasm and irony in one go, your sense of humour is showing definite signs of improvement. Must be the transatlantic influences. Or should that be transpacific

Chock de na.

[Jonmarleesco]

He fired his handgun INTO the basement. So apparently he didn't try checking, even though he was armed, but simply stuck the gun through the doorway and fired it.

[Jonmarleesco]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

...and my experience is you are in the minority.

I choose to be a little stronger willed than to accept opinions from those that have never done anything but go to school and read books, or in this case...

Never owning or firing a firearm, never having been to the US and not likely to ever go and having no idea what the Constitution means to many of us.

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

I must admit I did make a couple of silly posts on the Johnny Depp led dog invasion of Australia but hopefully this will not be held against me.

I've always been an advocate of the Abe Lincoln quote...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Good advice for many on this forum to follow.

Do you believe in self-advocacy?

[Jonmarleesco]

This may come as a shock to the hysterical anti-gun posters but guns are not going to be confiscated from law abiding citizens in America, because this father shot his son.

Hysterical? Seriously? Given the constant gun-related incidents that occur so regularly in the U.S., and the head in the sand philosophy of the gun lobby, that adjective was ludicrous.

[Publicus]

What's the use in defending a tragic incident like this?

One could give a "what if" story such as, what if the intruder had been a 19 year old thug with his own gun ready to shoot anybody that resisted him.

Sadly it wasn't and if it had been you would never have read about it here.

So what's the use. You critics are going to criticize regardless and since the vast majority of you are not Americans, nobody really cares what your opinions are anyway.

Keep tilting at windmills all you want. Just don't expect it to do any good.

How very Thai of ChuckD in showing his Americaness.

I'm an American and many of us do care and appreciate the opinions of non-Americans.

Yes we do indeed but no one cares if he doesn't give a chuck about the gun views of foreigners.

We post to a www discussion board where the Forum requirement is English and the great majority of us are people of a native English language country. Almost all of us are in a foreign country.

The Forum clientele can be characterised by some as the Anglosphere. The poster chuckd has been terribly slow on the uptake however.

It is also unmistakeble the poster cares a lot what foreigners think, believe, write, argue concerning gun violence in the USA. Very much cares. He's always carping about it. Strange priority I'd say, to criticise the critics of gun violence.

I take no issue with non-Americans criticizing U.S. gun violence per se. But when people approach the discussion as if outlawing guns is an option, then they lose all credibility.

Another civil war would start over night, if the government even hinted at taking away people's guns. So, really, what's the point of bringing it up then? So they can harp again and again about how superior their cultures/countries are to ours? Because that's all they really seem to be about, and in that context, I agree with ChuckD: I'm really not interested in what they think.

At the core of the foreign criticism of guns in the USA is the more than 30,000 gun deaths each year. And over time it only keeps increasing overall.

This poster owns a handgun in USA and it helped me one time just by showing it. One time while travelling, but that was an important one time, especially given I was outnumbered.

I accept the Second Amendment but the Second Amendment absent the post WW2 Era myths about gun ownership the NRA and the far right propagate.

The huge majority of Americans want better gun transactions.

Foreigners do need to know that arguing for elimination of all guns from American society and culture is a fool's errand. Conversely, those who argue to arm everyone are lunatics who have no respect of a civil society.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Publicus

[sunnyjim5]

I wonder if the "gung ho" blow em away, gun owning fanatic is happy now he has proved what a "Big Man" he is ?

[arrowsdawdle]

You know, Obama does have a point?

Only if you buy into the fantasy that humans are not responsible for the guns they fire.

[arrowsdawdle]

This may come as a shock to the hysterical anti-gun posters but guns are not going to be confiscated from law abiding citizens in America, because this father shot his son.

Hysterical? Seriously? Given the constant gun-related incidents that occur so regularly in the U.S., and the head in the sand philosophy of the gun lobby, that adjective was ludicrous.

It is so easy to act holier than thou about this issue. If you really believe your rhetoric, how about wearing a T-shirt that says, "I am not armed and refuse the protection of any legal gun owners who I beg to keep their distance and not interfere with any poor misunderstood criminal who is about to kill me."

[arrowsdawdle]

I wonder if the "gung ho" blow em away, gun owning fanatic is happy now he has proved what a "Big Man" he is ?

Why would you say that at a time of such a tragedy? Perhaps, you consider it nobler to defer your responsibility to protect your family to a police force that nearly never is able to prevent crimes, only mark them off with chalk and yellow tape.

[mpa]

I wonder how he feels about the 2nd amendment now.

It's about freedom, such stupidity still exists.

[mopar71]

Its not only the fact that a lot of people have guns its also the mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear.. "Oh some one is in the basement probably trying to steal a few of my belongings I better end his life"

In another country the first impulse would perhaps be to call the police and run over to a neighbour.

"Mentality and the culture of such hostility and fear"? Sorry, in big cities like Cincinnati there is real crime and it is completely plausible that someone would break into a house to steal or worse. It's ridiculous to assume that the choice was defend yourself or simply let them steal something...because you can't predict what the criminal(s) in the basement wants, will be satisfied with or to what extent they will to get it.

In another country - the first impulse is to run because people are defenseless. Just like the first impulse is to stand by and do nothing when one of your soldiers is run down in the middle of the street then hacked to death by two men with machetes. I'm sure they all called the police so why didn't the police stop it? Where were the police in Paris? Where were the police in Cologne? As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away".

And for the posters here who want to take this tragedy and say stupid things like "wingnuts will say the kid should have been armed too"...that's just sad.

Well the whole premise is to have a society where citizens don't shoot other citizens. And this is where opinions differ. In good ol' Murica you have a 200 something year old paper that you for some reason view as an incorruptible and holy sacrament and there is this notion that independence and freedom pertains foremost to the right to use deadly force which is quite laughable.

Agree to disagree yeah...

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

What would you suggest replacing that "200 something year old paper" with?

[mopar71]

I seldom post opinions on Aussie, New Zealand, Euro, British or any thread with which I am not personally familiar. I have no personal involvement with any of these nations so why should I waste my time.

America is loved or hated, no in between. Like Man U. People can't help having an opinion even if they have never been to America or if they don't really know any Americans. Years ago I had a European friend tell me that she only watched American news because it was the only news that mattered. Wow. But it's mostly true. It is hard to find an American who cares about the internal politics of another country they have never been to or have no connection to. I mean, no one gives a crap really. Many of the people in those countries don't care either so they follow the big dog, the USA. Just like with football (soccer)...people around the world live in countries with crappy teams so they become fans of Man U. Sad. ;-)