Removing mercury fillings / amalgams

[asianorange]

I have been going to Dental 4 U for a while now for cleaning. Recently I asked if then about removing the amalgams and replacing them with a safer alternative.

Opinions please: I think Dental 4 U is great, but I don't know much about their procedure for removing the most toxic non-radioactive substance on Earth. Should I use them or go with a holistic dentist that specializes in this?

If I go the holistic route, are there any dentists that you recommend?

Thank you ...

[FolkGuitar]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

[asianorange]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

[MaeJoMTB]

Every time you have fillings, (new or replaced) it halves the remaining life of that tooth.

They start off with an expected life of 80 years.

So let's work this out,

age 16 some scumbag dentist drills and fills cos he needs the money, 40 years.

age 35 you bite something hard and a filling falls out, 20 years.

age 50 you decide to get the filling replaced with something 'less harmful', 10 years.

What are you gonna do when you're 60?

Implants?

or at age 50 should you have left well alone, and worry about 70 if you ever make it?

Edited January 13, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[Rancid]

From what I've read amalgam has to be removed in certain way by a dentist that specialises in it so you don't end up ingesting or inhaling half of it.

There are of course different views on the dangers of amalgam, there again scientists now say that there never was a rational case for dentists wanting fluoridation of the water, so they got that one wrong...

[asianorange]

From what I've read amalgam has to be removed in certain way by a dentist that specialises in it so you don't end up ingesting or inhaling half of it.

There are of course different views on the dangers of amalgam, there again scientists now say that there never was a rational case for dentists wanting fluoridation of the water, so they got that one wrong...

Yes, thank you.

It is my opinion (and mine alone), that amalgams are bad. But I could certainly be wrong about that.

[suzannegoh]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

By all means use a holistic dentist, but make sure that you select one that is trained in crystal therapy also.

[NancyL]

This from the Wikipedia listing for "Dental amalgam controversy":

Far more mercury is released when amalgam fillings are removed than over their entire lifetime if left undisturbed. This led to some dentists who advocate removal of amalgam fillings (who may describe themselves as "holistic dentists") to develop special techniques to counter this, such as wearing breathing apparatus, using high-volume aspiration, and performing the procedure as quickly as possible. The impact of such techniques on the dose of mercury received during filling removal is unknown, and the techniques have been criticized as merely advertising gimmicks which enable such dentists to charge far more than a normal dentist would for the same procedure. Sources of mercury from the diet, and the potential harm of the composite resins (which mimic female sex hormones) to replace the purportedly harmful amalgam fillings, are also ignored by these dentists.

Consumer Reports has warned its readers on several occasions that, "if a dentist wants to remove your fillings because they contain mercury, watch your wallet."

[asianorange]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

By all means use a holistic dentist, but make sure that you select one that is trained in crystal therapy also.

Noted.

[asianorange]

This from the Wikipedia listing for "Dental amalgam controversy":

Far more mercury is released when amalgam fillings are removed than over their entire lifetime if left undisturbed. This led to some dentists who advocate removal of amalgam fillings (who may describe themselves as "holistic dentists") to develop special techniques to counter this, such as wearing breathing apparatus, using high-volume aspiration, and performing the procedure as quickly as possible. The impact of such techniques on the dose of mercury received during filling removal is unknown, and the techniques have been criticized as merely advertising gimmicks which enable such dentists to charge far more than a normal dentist would for the same procedure. Sources of mercury from the diet, and the potential harm of the composite resins (which mimic female sex hormones) to replace the purportedly harmful amalgam fillings, are also ignored by these dentists.

Consumer Reports has warned its readers on several occasions that, "if a dentist wants to remove your fillings because they contain mercury, watch your wallet."

Thanks -- yea I have read that before.

[NancyL]

Do a google search using the words "holistic dentist Chiang Mai" You'll find enough sources to give you a picture of what's available here. And more responses like the good advice you're receiving on this thread.

[asianorange]

Do a google search using the words "holistic dentist Chiang Mai" You'll find enough sources to give you a picture of what's available here. And more responses like the good advice you're receiving on this thread.

Hi, yes I have done that, but I also wanted to get some opinions form the fine people from Thai Visa.

[FolkGuitar]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

The point is, you do NOT have the catalyst in your mouth. By definition, a catalyst is a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed without becoming part of the final result. In other words, the mercury was used to cause the ingredients of the amalgam to bind together, but doesn't remain mixed INTO the resulting amalgam that's in your teeth. The mercury is squeezed out of the mixture before it goes into your teeth. I used to get bottles of the used stuff as a child from my dentist so I could play with it, changing copper pennies into shinny silver ones. God only knows how many I must have made as a child...

I never liked all those little bits and pieces that result from drilling getting into my mouth so I always ask a dentist to use a 'Rubber Dam' when I need a cavity filled. This is a sheet of thin rubber that is attached to a framwork, and has a small hole in the center which goes over the tooth to be filled, isolating it from the area. NOTHING enters my mouth or throat (I don't care for the feeling of almost drowning while sitting in the chair either... Call me a wus...) I should think this ordinary dental device would be more than enough to prevent drilled-out amalgam from getting in your mouth. No need for anything special unless people enjoy paying the extra money for a 'Spacial Transformation Di-fluctuation Filldibuler' to be employed.

Edited January 13, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[asianorange]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

The point is, you do NOT have the catalyst in your mouth. By definition, a catalyst is a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed without becoming part of the final result. In other words, the mercury was used to cause the ingredients of the amalgam to bind together, but doesn't remain mixed INTO the resulting amalgam that's in your teeth. The mercury is squeezed out of the mixture before it goes into your teeth. I used to get bottles of the used stuff as a child from my dentist so I could play with it, changing copper pennies into shinny silver ones. God only knows how many I must have made as a child...

I never liked all those little bits and pieces that result from drilling getting into my mouth so I always ask a dentist to use a 'Rubber Dam' when I need a cavity filled. This is a sheet of thin rubber that is attached to a framwork, and has a small hole in the center which goes over the tooth to be filled, isolating it from the area. NOTHING enters my mouth or throat (I don't care for the feeling of almost drowning while sitting in the chair either... Call me a wus...) I should think this ordinary dental device would be more than enough to prevent drilled-out amalgam from getting in your mouth. No need for anything special unless people enjoy paying the extra money for a 'Spacial Transformation Di-fluctuation Filldibuler' to be employed.

Good info -- thank you very much.

[elektrified]

Any skilled, honest dentist will tell you it is a waste of time and money to replace the old fillings. I've had some in my mouth for more than 40 years and every dentist I've been to in the last 15 years have told me what good quality fillings I have. They will outlast the modern fillings that break or fall out so often it's silly. The procedure to remove them is not so different, only that they build a dam in your mouth. I had one or two amalgam filled teeth break when I lived in Europe and different dentists replaced them using the dam. It is incredibly uncomfortable to sit there for an hour or so with the dam in your mouth. Trust me on that.

If a dentist recommends that you replace all of your amalgam fillings, then get up and walk out.

[NancyL]

Yes, I just had some extensive dental work done at CM Ram by a CMU professor who moonlights a couple afternoon/evenings a week at Ram. It was a major project of 14 crowns. I'm certain some of the teeth she drilled out had amalgam fillings and she used dams for all her work, plus the high suction. I don't think it was necessarily because she was concerned about me, but rather because of potential exposure of her and her assistant. She told me upfront that she planned to do all the work very "textbook dental school" unless I proved to be unable to cooperate and then she'd take the shortcuts that high-end dental clinics use with the tourists, to finish their procedures in just a couple weeks. I've had appointments with her that have last more than five hours, over the course of several months. At a cost less than the dental clinics popular with the tourists.

The only reason I'm going thru this is because of the erosion of my front teeth had gotten to the point where I couldn't eat (i.e. take a bite out of) sandwiches, ribs, corn-on-the-cob and it was beginning to affect my speech. It wasn't out of concern for the amalgam fillings.

[ilostmypassword]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

I never liked all those little bits and pieces that result from drilling getting into my mouth so I always ask a dentist to use a 'Rubber Dam' when I need a cavity filled. This is a sheet of thin rubber that is attached to a framwork, and has a small hole in the center which goes over the tooth to be filled, isolating it from the area. NOTHING enters my mouth or throat (I don't care for the feeling of almost drowning while sitting in the chair either... Call me a wus...) I should think this ordinary dental device would be more than enough to prevent drilled-out amalgam from getting in your mouth. No need for anything special unless people enjoy paying the extra money for a 'Spacial Transformation Di-fluctuation Filldibuler' to be employed.

I don't care a bit about the mercury in my amalgam fillings. That said, according to the FDA (U.S. not Thai) amalgam fillings are about 50% mercury.

Here's the link.

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/ProductsandMedicalProcedures/DentalProducts/DentalAmalgam/ucm171094.htm

Edited January 13, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[ilostmypassword]

Every time you have fillings, (new or replaced) it halves the remaining life of that tooth.

They start off with an expected life of 80 years.

So let's work this out,

age 16 some scumbag dentist drills and fills cos he needs the money, 40 years.

age 35 you bite something hard and a filling falls out, 20 years.

age 50 you decide to get the filling replaced with something 'less harmful', 10 years.

What are you gonna do when you're 60?

Implants?

or at age 50 should you have left well alone, and worry about 70 if you ever make it?

I don't think so. I certainly can't find that factoid anywhere. You got a source for that? According to your assertion, if you do the math, that means if you get your teeth filled twice, the life of the tooth is down to 20 years. Really? Here's a link to a page that itself has links to varies studies done on various kinds of fillings.

http://www.oralanswers.com/how-long-does-an-amalgam-silver-colored-filling-last/

[amexpat]

From what I've read amalgam has to be removed in certain way by a dentist that specialises in it so you don't end up ingesting or inhaling half of it.

There are of course different views on the dangers of amalgam, there again scientists now say that there never was a rational case for dentists wanting fluoridation of the water, so they got that one wrong...

That should be Some scientists say that. And some advocate advocate copper bracelets and tin foil hats.

I'll go with the CDC, the American Dental Association, et al.

[FolkGuitar]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

I never liked all those little bits and pieces that result from drilling getting into my mouth so I always ask a dentist to use a 'Rubber Dam' when I need a cavity filled. This is a sheet of thin rubber that is attached to a framwork, and has a small hole in the center which goes over the tooth to be filled, isolating it from the area. NOTHING enters my mouth or throat (I don't care for the feeling of almost drowning while sitting in the chair either... Call me a wus...) I should think this ordinary dental device would be more than enough to prevent drilled-out amalgam from getting in your mouth. No need for anything special unless people enjoy paying the extra money for a 'Spacial Transformation Di-fluctuation Filldibuler' to be employed.

I don't care a bit about the mercury in my amalgam fillings. That said, according to the FDA (U.S. not Thai) amalgam fillings are about 50% mercury.

Here's the link.

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/ProductsandMedicalProcedures/DentalProducts/DentalAmalgam/ucm171094.htm

That much mercury would have half the population (or more) with 'Mad Hatter's Syndrome.' Think about it for a moment...

[NancyL]

Maybe that explains why Donald Trump is ahead right now in the U.S.

[rawhod]

I have three references for you:-

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=8081#2

http://ec.europa.eu/health/opinions/en/dental-amalgam/l-3/2-amalgam-preparation.htm

http://prospect.rsc.org/metalsandlife/9.16b.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04_scenihr/docs/scenihr_o_016.pdf

...and a quote from the second reference:-

The mercury in the set amalgam is in a very different form to that in the liquid mercury. According to Okabe (1987), mercury has a vapour pressure of 1.20 x 10-3 Torr at 20°C. It is difficult to compare directly the vapour pressure of liquids and solids, and indeed it is difficult to obtain good and reproducible measurements of very low vapour pressures such as those found with amalgams(Halbach and Welz 2004), but best estimates of the vapour pressure for amalgam surfaces range from 10-6 to 10-10 Torr (Wieliczka et al. 1996). This implies that the release of mercury vapour from a set amalgam restoration will be many orders of magnitude lower than that from liquid mercury, and the availability of mercury from a solid alloy structure should not be equated with that from the liquid. This subject is considered further in the following sections on exposure levels. An amalgam restoration will be susceptible to tarnish and corrosion. Tarnish is a process that involves the deposition of substances from the oral environment, especially sulphides, such that the surface loses its metallic lustre, but without any significant chemical reaction involving the underlying alloy. In fact, tarnished alloys have greater protection from corrosion because of the passivating effect of the deposited layer.

...and a quote from the final reference:-

Mercury is the major metallic element used in dental amalgam. In general it does constitute a toxicological hazard, with reasonably well defined characteristics for the major forms of exposure. Some local adverse effects are seen with amalgam fillings but the incidence is low and normally readily managed. There have been claims of causation with respect to a variety of systemic conditions, particularly neurological and psychological/psychiatric effects. It is concluded however, that there is no scientific evidence for risks of adverse systemic effects exist and the current use of dental amalgam does not pose a risk of systemic disease. The main exposure to mercury in individuals with amalgam restorations occurs during placement or removal of the fillings. The removal of amalgam restorations will transiently increase the exposure of individual patients to relatively high levels of mercury and there is no clinical justification for removing clinically satisfactory amalgam restorations, except in patients suspected of having allergic reactions to amalgam constituents. The mercury release during placement and removal also results in exposure to the dental personnel. However, this may be minimized by the use of appropriate clinical techniques. No studies have shown that dental personnel suffer classical signs of mercury intoxication.

[elektrified]

Yes, I just had some extensive dental work done at CM Ram by a CMU professor who moonlights a couple afternoon/evenings a week at Ram. It was a major project of 14 crowns. I'm certain some of the teeth she drilled out had amalgam fillings and she used dams for all her work, plus the high suction. I don't think it was necessarily because she was concerned about me, but rather because of potential exposure of her and her assistant. She told me upfront that she planned to do all the work very "textbook dental school" unless I proved to be unable to cooperate and then she'd take the shortcuts that high-end dental clinics use with the tourists, to finish their procedures in just a couple weeks. I've had appointments with her that have last more than five hours, over the course of several months. At a cost less than the dental clinics popular with the tourists.

The only reason I'm going thru this is because of the erosion of my front teeth had gotten to the point where I couldn't eat (i.e. take a bite out of) sandwiches, ribs, corn-on-the-cob and it was beginning to affect my speech. It wasn't out of concern for the amalgam fillings.

OMG 5 hour dental appointments! I think I'd rather lose a tooth than endure that. Dental work to me is like torture.

[cloudhopper]

Go with the one that costs the most. As mercury is used as a 'catalyst' in the formation of an amalgam, it leaves no residue. Such is the chemical definition of a 'catalyst.'

If it leaves no residue, all the hype about replacing them is simply a clever scam to cause people to pay for unneeded medical care. So as long as you're going to pay for something that you really don't need, you may as well pay as much as possible. (God, I just love logic! LOL!)

I'd rather not have this "catalyst" in my mouth. Thanks anyway

The point is, you do NOT have the catalyst in your mouth. By definition, a catalyst is a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed without becoming part of the final result. In other words, the mercury was used to cause the ingredients of the amalgam to bind together, but doesn't remain mixed INTO the resulting amalgam that's in your teeth. The mercury is squeezed out of the mixture before it goes into your teeth. I used to get bottles of the used stuff as a child from my dentist so I could play with it, changing copper pennies into shinny silver ones. God only knows how many I must have made as a child...

I never liked all those little bits and pieces that result from drilling getting into my mouth so I always ask a dentist to use a 'Rubber Dam' when I need a cavity filled. This is a sheet of thin rubber that is attached to a framwork, and has a small hole in the center which goes over the tooth to be filled, isolating it from the area. NOTHING enters my mouth or throat (I don't care for the feeling of almost drowning while sitting in the chair either... Call me a wus...) I should think this ordinary dental device would be more than enough to prevent drilled-out amalgam from getting in your mouth. No need for anything special unless people enjoy paying the extra money for a 'Spacial Transformation Di-fluctuation Filldibuler' to be employed.

I'm afraid your description of an amalgam is counterfactual and the mercury does in fact remain in the mix. And it becomes a vapor as an amalgam is being drilled out. If this were toxic in practice we would have epidemiological evidence of pathology in dentists and their assistants but that has not occurred. It is sad to see people having perfectly serviceable and harmless amalgams being removed only to be replaced by composite epoxy resins that are far more soluble and short lived than amalgam.

[FritsSikkink]

Every time you have fillings, (new or replaced) it halves the remaining life of that tooth.

They start off with an expected life of 80 years.

So let's work this out,

age 16 some scumbag dentist drills and fills cos he needs the money, 40 years.

age 35 you bite something hard and a filling falls out, 20 years.

age 50 you decide to get the filling replaced with something 'less harmful', 10 years.

What are you gonna do when you're 60?

Implants?

or at age 50 should you have left well alone, and worry about 70 if you ever make it?

if it is true your math is no good

16 y old 40 years means tooth gone when 56

so at 35 y old tooth life remaining is 56 - 35 = 21 years halved by replacement is 10,5 years so tooth gone when 45,5 y old.

[ilostmypassword]

That much mercury would have half the population (or more) with 'Mad Hatter's Syndrome.' Think about it for a moment...

Then it should be easy for you to find some authoritative source that says otherwise. I can't find one. I think you don't understand what an amalgam is. Frankly, neither do I but I know that I don't know.

[FolkGuitar]

That much mercury would have half the population (or more) with 'Mad Hatter's Syndrome.' Think about it for a moment...

Then it should be easy for you to find some authoritative source that says otherwise. I can't find one. I think you don't understand what an amalgam is. Frankly, neither do I but I know that I don't know.

An 'amalgam' is a blending of two or more ingredients (in he case of an old 'silver filling,' just two,) using a 'catalyst' of some sort to create the chemical bonding. The catalyst remains unchanged, and is not part of the amalgam, only a chemical 'tool' used to cause the reaction to occur. Does that clear things up for you?

Mercury is highly poisonous in its natural state. If you had a mouthful of it for years, you would suffer from severe brain damage (colloquially known as "Mad Hatter's Syndrome.) The fact that this sort of filling has been used on millions of people all over the world for more than 75 years WITHOUT Mad Hatters Syndrome becoming epidemic should be evidence enough for any rational individual.

[cloudhopper]

The bulk of a typical dental amalgam has the formula Ag2Hg3. The properties of the mercury part (Hg) are completely different than pure mercury, just as is the chlorine in table salt.

[suzannegoh]

That much mercury would have half the population (or more) with 'Mad Hatter's Syndrome.' Think about it for a moment...

Then it should be easy for you to find some authoritative source that says otherwise. I can't find one. I think you don't understand what an amalgam is. Frankly, neither do I but I know that I don't know.

An 'amalgam' is a blending of two or more ingredients (in he case of an old 'silver filling,' just two,) using a 'catalyst' of some sort to create the chemical bonding. The catalyst remains unchanged, and is not part of the amalgam, only a chemical 'tool' used to cause the reaction to occur. Does that clear things up for you?

I don't think that's correct, at least in the case of dental amalgams. A dental amalgam is a mix of two or more metal alloys, not two or more unreacted metals, and Hg will be a component of those alloys. That doesn't necessarily mean that there will be elemental Hg floating around in your mouth (though there could be at least while the dentist is working on you) but it does mean that there are going to be compounds such as Ag2Hg3 and Sn7Hg in your mouth.

.

[partington]

That much mercury would have half the population (or more) with 'Mad Hatter's Syndrome.' Think about it for a moment...

Then it should be easy for you to find some authoritative source that says otherwise. I can't find one. I think you don't understand what an amalgam is. Frankly, neither do I but I know that I don't know.

An 'amalgam' is a blending of two or more ingredients (in he case of an old 'silver filling,' just two,) using a 'catalyst' of some sort to create the chemical bonding. The catalyst remains unchanged, and is not part of the amalgam, only a chemical 'tool' used to cause the reaction to occur. Does that clear things up for you?

Mercury is highly poisonous in its natural state. If you had a mouthful of it for years, you would suffer from severe brain damage (colloquially known as "Mad Hatter's Syndrome.) The fact that this sort of filling has been used on millions of people all over the world for more than 75 years WITHOUT Mad Hatters Syndrome becoming epidemic should be evidence enough for any rational individual.

Mercury is not a catalyst but an integral part of the dental amalgam, just as cement is an integral part of concrete. An amalgam is just a mixture of mercury, silver and copper. It is an alloy, like for example bronze (tin and copper). The mercury added is an integral part of the mix, usually 50%, and does not go away once the amalgam is set.

The reason why the mercury in amalgams is not dangerous has already been explained in a post above. To be even more simplistic: mercury vapour is toxic, not solid mercury. Liquid mercury being in a higher energetic state has a lot of mercury vapour emanating from it, which is the form that is absorbed by the body and is dangerous. When set in a solid amalgam the vapour from mercury is non-existent to all intents and purposes, and cannot be measured, No vapour, no toxicity.

This does NOT mean there's no mercury in amalgam!