Los Ranked Number 3 For Murders

[Donz]

Ofcourse it would be easy to get a gun in Thailand, its easy anywhere, as long you got the dosh people will have the gun.

[ColPyat]

Ofcourse it would be easy to get a gun in Thailand, its easy anywhere, as long you got the dosh people will have the gun.

That maybe is so in Australia, but not not in western Europe, where i grew up. It is very difficult to get a gun there.

Here in Thailand you even have a large underground industry of manufacturing illegal guns.

[kmart]

One shot "specials" seem to be popular here. The technical school students make them and enjoy testing them out on each other after school. Its great that they have hobbies, obviously.

[lomatopo]

Every cop here has a legal gun and an illegal throwaway gun.

The term you are looking to use is "throw-down" not throw away.

[Fontok]

Ofcourse it would be easy to get a gun in Thailand, its easy anywhere, as long you got the dosh people will have the gun.

I lived in my western country 45 years. Let me say you that it is rather impossible to get a gun there if you are not a qualified person.

[PhilHarries]

Have I ever felt truly safe in Pattaya? .......

Always feel safe and its as thai as any place in thailand.

Located in Thailand? Yes indeed. A representative slice of Thailand? No way.

And just where would you suggest taking a representative slice of Thailand?

Bangkok?

Pattani?

Issaan?

Just like most other countries on Earth Thailand is a widely varied melting pot of life and there is no "representative slice".

To get back to the subject, yes Thailand is a dangeous place but the vast majority of the violence is Thai on Thai. If a farang gets killed, or severely beaten, then he is either involved in criminal activities, argued a point a little too far with the wrong person or was just plain unlucky.

The first category one could argue that if you mess with fire don't complain if you get burnt and it is these types that get farangs a bad name.

The second can be avoided by taking the time to learn the culture before getting deeply involved within Thai society and making sure you know who you are dealing with.

The third are just plain unlucky and I would put the two Aussie girls shot in Chantaburi (was it?). Just the wrong place wrong time, can happen anywhere.

I know this is a simplistic view and avoids the issue of upsetting a Thai without knowing it (raised by someone above). But lets face it, the chances of that happening to the extent of murder is remote and only increases with increasing involvement in Thai affairs.

The worrying aspect is the suspicious suicides around Pattaya. Presumably if you marry a Thai woman, bar girl or not, there is sufficient a bond that you feel she has the right to know about your money and also how to get at it in the event of your demise. There are various steps you could take but any one of them can be sidestepped with the promise of a little payout.

And finally, there are farangs out there stupid enough to make a habit of taking that last slug of Chivas out on their balcony admiring the glittering lights of South Pattaya ten floors below.

On the whole, provided you do not adopt an extravagent lifestyle, avoid be a total pillock with those Thais you have dealings with and take standard precautions Thailand is as safe, for farangs, as any western country.

[Donz]

Ofcourse it would be easy to get a gun in Thailand, its easy anywhere, as long you got the dosh people will have the gun.

I lived in my western country 45 years. Let me say you that it is rather impossible to get a gun there if you are not a qualified person.

Im sure it wouldnt be hard if you tried.

In Australia its easy to get a gun then weed sometimes.

[JimsKnight]

And since when did Pattaya stop being Thailand?

Circa 1950 (Gregorian)

As pointed out by this.....

With the possible exception of Pataya, which is about as Thai as Torremolinos is Spain

And Blackpool isn't England.

Did I ever feel 'safe' in Blackpool? ....... no.

Pattaya is not Thailand, hasn't been for some time.

You didn't feel safe in Blackpool?

Blackpool isn't England?

Jeez buddy what are you on?

Unless you go out causing trouble you'll likely be as safe in Blackpool as Hua Hin! Which is safe let me assure you.

[qualtrough]

And just where would you suggest taking a representative slice of Thailand?

Bangkok?

Pattani?

Issaan?

Just like most other countries on Earth Thailand is a widely varied melting pot of life and there is no "representative slice".

PhilHarries, I agree with your analysis of violent crime here entirely, but I still feel that Pattaya is not representative of Thailand, particularly vis-a-vis the type and incidence of crime, because it has such a high number of foreign residents and temporary visitors. In short, a very high number of transient visitors, and probably a higher percentage than you might find elsewhere fall into what might be termed the 'undesirable' category.

Regarding suicides, it seems that there are some members (I am not referring to you here) that feel that every suicide is a poorly covered up murder. I have also seen these people advance very weak arguments supporting their thesis, including very uninformed remarks about what constitutes an unusual or unlikely suicide. Examples: They had a bag over their head, they left no note, their hands were tied, they hadn't shown any warning signs. If you visit any of those sites suggesting ways to commit suicide a bag over the head is usually one of them. I cannot quote a statistic, but a pretty high percentage of suicides in the US do not include a note. People committing suicide are not unknown to take measures to ensure that they don't back out at the last moment, including tying their hands. And warning signs--not always present. I had an uncle who was the most optimistic and cheerful guy you could imagine. One day he left the office, bought some shotgun shells at a hardware store, and blew his brains out in his car. Only inkling something might be wrong was in retrospect, he had been complaining of some mystery ailment and hadn't quite been himself, but nobody even remotely thought he would ever kill himself.

I would not rule out the possibility that one or murders of farangs could conceivably been mistakenly attributed to suicide, but I have not seen any compelling evidence provided by members since I joined this forum. A lot of ignorant speculation is about all. There are a lot of suicides in Pattaya for sure, but I don't think anyone can deny that it attracts people who have pretty much burned their bridges behind them, and when things don't work out here they have nothing left. They have left their wives and family, spent all their money, and found out their new GF was ripping them off or cheating on them, or both. Combine that with a lot of tall condos and small wonder there are a lot of jumpers.

Edited October 24, 2006 by qualtrough

[Thaddeus]

You didn't feel safe in Blackpool?

Blackpool isn't England?

Jeez buddy what are you on?

Unless you go out causing trouble you'll likely be as safe in Blackpool as Hua Hin! Which is safe let me assure you.

Apologies..... I should have qualified that with At all times

Surrounded by a bunch of drunks from Liverpool, Wigan, Preston etc in Yates Wine Lodge is not always a comfortable experience.... and Irish week can have it's ups and downs.

I have probably witnessed more outbreaks of spontaneous violence in Blackpool than I have in Pattaya.

The big difference is that in Blackpool, the guns tend to just do this.

[meemiathai]

Have I ever felt truly safe in Pattaya? .......

Always feel safe and its as thai as any place in thailand.

Located in Thailand? Yes indeed. A representative slice of Thailand? No way.

And just where would you suggest taking a representative slice of Thailand?

Bangkok?

Pattani?

Issaan?

Just like most other countries on Earth Thailand is a widely varied melting pot of life and there is no "representative slice".

To get back to the subject, yes Thailand is a dangeous place but the vast majority of the violence is Thai on Thai. If a farang gets killed, or severely beaten, then he is either involved in criminal activities, argued a point a little too far with the wrong person or was just plain unlucky.

The first category one could argue that if you mess with fire don't complain if you get burnt and it is these types that get farangs a bad name.

The second can be avoided by taking the time to learn the culture before getting deeply involved within Thai society and making sure you know who you are dealing with.

The third are just plain unlucky and I would put the two Aussie girls shot in Chantaburi (was it?). Just the wrong place wrong time, can happen anywhere.

I know this is a simplistic view and avoids the issue of upsetting a Thai without knowing it (raised by someone above). But lets face it, the chances of that happening to the extent of murder is remote and only increases with increasing involvement in Thai affairs.

The worrying aspect is the suspicious suicides around Pattaya. Presumably if you marry a Thai woman, bar girl or not, there is sufficient a bond that you feel she has the right to know about your money and also how to get at it in the event of your demise. There are various steps you could take but any one of them can be sidestepped with the promise of a little payout.

And finally, there are farangs out there stupid enough to make a habit of taking that last slug of Chivas out on their balcony admiring the glittering lights of South Pattaya ten floors below.

On the whole, provided you do not adopt an extravagent lifestyle, avoid be a total pillock with those Thais you have dealings with and take standard precautions Thailand is as safe, for farangs, as any western country.

Not having lived in Thailand before, this is exactly my impression of it.

Thanks for the post.

[meemiathai]

Regarding suicides, it seems that there are some members (I am not referring to you here) that feel that every suicide is a poorly covered up murder. I have also seen these people advance very weak arguments supporting their thesis, including very uninformed remarks about what constitutes an unusual or unlikely suicide. Examples: They had a bag over their head, they left no note, their hands were tied, they hadn't shown any warning signs. If you visit any of those sites suggesting ways to commit suicide a bag over the head is usually one of them. I cannot quote a statistic, but a pretty high percentage of suicides in the US do not include a note. People committing suicide are not unknown to take measures to ensure that they don't back out at the last moment, including tying their hands. And warning signs--not always present. I had an uncle who was the most optimistic and cheerful guy you could imagine. One day he left the office, bought some shotgun shells at a hardware store, and blew his brains out in his car. Only inkling something might be wrong was in retrospect, he had been complaining of some mystery ailment and hadn't quite been himself, but nobody even remotely thought he would ever kill himself.

I would not rule out the possibility that one or murders of farangs could conceivably been mistakenly attributed to suicide, but I have not seen any compelling evidence provided by members since I joined this forum. A lot of ignorant speculation is about all. There are a lot of suicides in Pattaya for sure, but I don't think anyone can deny that it attracts people who have pretty much burned their bridges behind them, and when things don't work out here they have nothing left. They have left their wives and family, spent all their money, and found out their new GF was ripping them off or cheating on them, or both. Combine that with a lot of tall condos and small wonder there are a lot of jumpers.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly what I thought and have observed.

And talking about suicides, I have always been a bit suicidal for some personal reasons. And if I had ever done it, I'm quite sure most people who know me would've thought it was murder. That's why I have always thought the people knew nothing about suicides when they talk about it here in the forum. And yes, bags over the head is quite a comon way (if you look into some websites you'll see) and in fact quite a farang way.

Nice post.

[meemiathai]

You didn't feel safe in Blackpool?

Blackpool isn't England?

Jeez buddy what are you on?

Unless you go out causing trouble you'll likely be as safe in Blackpool as Hua Hin! Which is safe let me assure you.

Apologies..... I should have qualified that with At all times

Surrounded by a bunch of drunks from Liverpool, Wigan, Preston etc in Yates Wine Lodge is not always a comfortable experience.... and Irish week can have it's ups and downs.

I have probably witnessed more outbreaks of spontaneous violence in Blackpool than I have in Pattaya.

The big difference is that in Blackpool, the guns tend to just do this.

Just see how disgusting those football hooligans are! Remember in Brussels?

[ColPyat]

Ofcourse it would be easy to get a gun in Thailand, its easy anywhere, as long you got the dosh people will have the gun.

I lived in my western country 45 years. Let me say you that it is rather impossible to get a gun there if you are not a qualified person.

Im sure it wouldnt be hard if you tried.

In Australia its easy to get a gun then weed sometimes.

Fascinating, donz, how you seem to know about places you most likely have never visited. No, in most western European countries it is very difficult to get illegal guns, unless you are well entrenched in the underworld. And even then it is not easy. And ammunition is a lot more difficult to get.

[ColPyat]

Regarding suicides, it seems that there are some members (I am not referring to you here) that feel that every suicide is a poorly covered up murder. I have also seen these people advance very weak arguments supporting their thesis, including very uninformed remarks about what constitutes an unusual or unlikely suicide. Examples: They had a bag over their head, they left no note, their hands were tied, they hadn't shown any warning signs. If you visit any of those sites suggesting ways to commit suicide a bag over the head is usually one of them. I cannot quote a statistic, but a pretty high percentage of suicides in the US do not include a note. People committing suicide are not unknown to take measures to ensure that they don't back out at the last moment, including tying their hands.

Yes, very true.

I have seen several suicides in which the hands were tied. Forensic officials did investigate these scenes carefully, and it was clear by the way how the hands were tied that it was done by the victim himself.

[Ijustwannateach]

I now have 2 Thai friends, and one student, with family members who were *murdered* by knife or gunshot (while I have known them). I don't recall any friends or family members back in the states who ever mentioned friends or family being murdered. That's very anecdotal, but for me it is a big difference.

"Steven"

[ColPyat]

That's very anecdotal, but for me it is a big difference.

"Steven"

I think that most people who do interact with Thais can say the same thing here. Several members of my wife's family were murdered, or even have murdered. I have friends who here were shot, or seriously injured by knifes.

In my place of birth i only know exactly one person who was murdered, a former school mate. Anecdotal, but i think significant, when the accumulation of anecdotes are combined.

[qualtrough]

That's very anecdotal, but for me it is a big difference.

"Steven"

I think that most people who do interact with Thais can say the same thing here. Several members of my wife's family were murdered, or even have murdered. I have friends who here were shot, or seriously injured by knifes.

In my place of birth i only know exactly one person who was murdered, a former school mate. Anecdotal, but i think significant, when the accumulation of anecdotes are combined.

With all due respect ColPyat, this says a lot about the family you married into and the people you associate or interact with. I have interacted with Thais for 16 years since first coming here in 1980 and have not had anything like the same experience as you. Where we live, who we live with, what we do, our income, social status, religion, dumb luck, etc. all impact our life anywhere. To imply that your experience is the same as 'most people' here is incorrect. And just to make it absolutely clear, I do not claim Thailand is not a violent country...

[ColPyat]

With all due respect ColPyat, this says a lot about the family you married into and the people you associate or interact with.

True.

I have married into a family of upcountry peasants, not the emerging urban middle class. But if you look at Thai demographics - rural peasants and urban lower classes are the vast majority of Thais. Their experience of life differs very little from the one of my wife's family.

And therefore these classes are far more representative for contemporary Thailand than the emerging middle classes.

Nevertheless, i have friends from those middle classes as well. And many of them own guns, both legal and illegal.

Edited October 24, 2006 by ColPyat

[nostrel]

a teacher i know had a pa who was a truck driver ,one night he was flagged down and pulled to a stop- he got out to see what was wrong and 3 guys bashed his head to a pulp . they wanted his truck full of goods which wasnt worth much .terrible waste for little gain ,and such excessive force too.

[bulmercke]

Have I ever felt truly safe in Pattaya? .......

Always feel safe and its as thai as any place in thailand.

Located in Thailand? Yes indeed. A representative slice of Thailand? No way.

And just where would you suggest taking a representative slice of Thailand?

Bangkok?

Pattani?

Issaan?

Just like most other countries on Earth Thailand is a widely varied melting pot of life and there is no "representative slice".

To get back to the subject, yes Thailand is a dangeous place but the vast majority of the violence is Thai on Thai. If a farang gets killed, or severely beaten, then he is either involved in criminal activities, argued a point a little too far with the wrong person or was just plain unlucky.

The first category one could argue that if you mess with fire don't complain if you get burnt and it is these types that get farangs a bad name.

The second can be avoided by taking the time to learn the culture before getting deeply involved within Thai society and making sure you know who you are dealing with.

The third are just plain unlucky and I would put the two Aussie girls shot in Chantaburi (was it?). Just the wrong place wrong time, can happen anywhere.

I know this is a simplistic view and avoids the issue of upsetting a Thai without knowing it (raised by someone above). But lets face it, the chances of that happening to the extent of murder is remote and only increases with increasing involvement in Thai affairs.

The worrying aspect is the suspicious suicides around Pattaya. Presumably if you marry a Thai woman, bar girl or not, there is sufficient a bond that you feel she has the right to know about your money and also how to get at it in the event of your demise. There are various steps you could take but any one of them can be sidestepped with the promise of a little payout.

And finally, there are farangs out there stupid enough to make a habit of taking that last slug of Chivas out on their balcony admiring the glittering lights of South Pattaya ten floors below.

On the whole, provided you do not adopt an extravagent lifestyle, avoid be a total pillock with those Thais you have dealings with and take standard precautions Thailand is as safe, for farangs, as any western country.

"And finally, there are farangs out there stupid enough................."

So you are supposing that farang gets drunk and then throws himself from balcony.......

Yes, some of these so-called "accidents and misadventures" must be treated with suspicion......

...........but then again, what easier way to go when you're in the twilight of your life and the love of your life has left you for another and/or money and there's really nothing left for you.......the money's run out.......and there really is nothing left you for in the future......

........it happens often........ particularly in Pattaya.......very sad!

Edited October 24, 2006 by bulmercke

[Donz]

Well none of my Thai future family has ever been murdered or been murdered. My gf says she doesnt know anyone who has had this happend to them, but she has had a friend die in a car accident.

Ive know 2 people in sydney who have been murded. So for me Sydney must be much more dangerous place to live

[kmart]

I agree about the high suicide rates especially in Pattaya. I once read some interview with a Brit Embassy rep who commented that a lot of the guys who commit suicide are here on some "last hurrah" type permanent vacation, having burnes their bridges; lost thier savings; had their heart broken; or contracted some terminal disease; etc. Sad, but understandable I 'spose....

[qualtrough]

With all due respect ColPyat, this says a lot about the family you married into and the people you associate or interact with.

True.

I have married into a family of upcountry peasants, not the emerging urban middle class. But if you look at Thai demographics - rural peasants and urban lower classes are the vast majority of Thais. Their experience of life differs very little from the one of my wife's family.

And therefore these classes are far more representative for contemporary Thailand than the emerging middle classes.

Nevertheless, i have friends from those middle classes as well. And many of them own guns, both legal and illegal.

I think there are great regional differences that you are overlooking. Certain provinces are known to have higher rates of violent crime. Kanchanaburi is one example, I believe Phetchburi is another. Others not so bad. Even within those provinces there are probably areas that are worse than others, a particular amphur, mooban, etc.

[ColPyat]

I think there are great regional differences that you are overlooking. Certain provinces are known to have higher rates of violent crime. Kanchanaburi is one example, I believe Phetchburi is another. Others not so bad. Even within those provinces there are probably areas that are worse than others, a particular amphur, mooban, etc.

According to reputation, included in the "bad" provinces is also Nakhorn Si Thammarat. Nevertheless, I am not familiar with either.

I think it is bad enough with the provinces i know, and those are surrounding Bangkok, and two provinces in the lower north.

Yes, some Mu Bans are worse than others. The overall picture though is still far from nice. And the trend is very worrying - because things in this aspect are not getting any better.

[Schooner]

Here's a statistic for you. I came here a year ago for a 2 week holiday. 2 weeks turned into three and so on. Obviously there is some attraction and not just the pretty women. I wake up everyday and ask myself if I'm enjoying my life here. Is it interesting and stimulating and challanging. So I stay. I have a home I enjoy, but never would have bought had I listened to the chicken little types. It is all mind over matter - if you don't mind, it don't matter.

I have never had a problem living in Pattaya, not even one, so my statistic is 100% no violence. What do I care about a bunch of stuff that dosen't concern me. Like I said I wake up every day decide if my life is better here than in the states. Obviously it is or I would go home.

It's interesting to see the statistic that the US is ranked 14th for murders. Here's why, there are a million people in prison and it has become a police state. big brother is watching everything. Do I feel safer there? No. I have engaged in risky behavior all of my life and it's a wonder I'm still around. Thailand is a walk in the park. I think the wild west aspect is interesting. Oh, the human drama... besides it's "not up to me" MY TGF reminds me that "it's not my business" what thais do and she is absolutly right.

Some folks need to get a life beyond google searchs and statistics. Knowing your stats ain't gonna help ya live a better life and isn't that what it's really all about?

[Tolley]

And just where would you suggest taking a representative slice of Thailand?

Bangkok?

Pattani?

Issaan?

Just like most other countries on Earth Thailand is a widely varied melting pot of life and there is no "representative slice".

PhilHarries, I agree with your analysis of violent crime here entirely, but I still feel that Pattaya is not representative of Thailand, particularly vis-a-vis the type and incidence of crime, because it has such a high number of foreign residents and temporary visitors. In short, a very high number of transient visitors, and probably a higher percentage than you might find elsewhere fall into what might be termed the 'undesirable' category.

Regarding suicides, it seems that there are some members (I am not referring to you here) that feel that every suicide is a poorly covered up murder. I have also seen these people advance very weak arguments supporting their thesis, including very uninformed remarks about what constitutes an unusual or unlikely suicide. Examples: They had a bag over their head, they left no note, their hands were tied, they hadn't shown any warning signs. If you visit any of those sites suggesting ways to commit suicide a bag over the head is usually one of them. I cannot quote a statistic, but a pretty high percentage of suicides in the US do not include a note. People committing suicide are not unknown to take measures to ensure that they don't back out at the last moment, including tying their hands. And warning signs--not always present. I had an uncle who was the most optimistic and cheerful guy you could imagine. One day he left the office, bought some shotgun shells at a hardware store, and blew his brains out in his car. Only inkling something might be wrong was in retrospect, he had been complaining of some mystery ailment and hadn't quite been himself, but nobody even remotely thought he would ever kill himself.

I would not rule out the possibility that one or murders of farangs could conceivably been mistakenly attributed to suicide, but I have not seen any compelling evidence provided by members since I joined this forum. A lot of ignorant speculation is about all. There are a lot of suicides in Pattaya for sure, but I don't think anyone can deny that it attracts people who have pretty much burned their bridges behind them, and when things don't work out here they have nothing left. They have left their wives and family, spent all their money, and found out their new GF was ripping them off or cheating on them, or both. Combine that with a lot of tall condos and small wonder there are a lot of jumpers.

You can't have it both ways.

You state that Pattaya is not representative of Thailand so therefore crime rates in Pattaya are not indicative of Thailand in general. However this is where a lot of foreigners live and the crime rate and violence is very high so therefore foreigners are at high risk in Pattaya. This sort of debunks you whole hypothesis that Thailand is safe for foreigners. There is always going to be more Thai on Thai violence as there are by numbers many more Thais. Nonetheless uderstating the risks doesn't do anyone any good.

Before any poster here starts posting that they have never had any trouble in Thailand blah blah blah...that means nothing other than you have been lucky. There are still plenty of people walking around Baghdad too who haven't been bombed or robbed or whatever. Thailand is not Iraq but instead of posters continually burying their heads in the sand they need to recognise that there are significant levels of violence in Thailand and that foreigners can very easily become caught up in the increasing levels of violence.

Everytime there is discussion on violence in Thailand the same old caveats come up ....it is nearly all Thai on Thai , the farang had it coming , didn't understand the culture, nothing has ever happened to me therefore everything is peachy, was drunk , was in a nightlife area therefore he should expect such things to happen, married a bargirl, did business with dodgy Thais ad naseum.

You may perceive that you are safer in Thailand but the reality is that for most westerners they are at much greater risk of violencve in Thailand than in their home country.

[meemiathai]

I now have 2 Thai friends, and one student, with family members who were *murdered* by knife or gunshot (while I have known them). I don't recall any friends or family members back in the states who ever mentioned friends or family being murdered. That's very anecdotal, but for me it is a big difference.

"Steven"

I guess you know more Thai people than my wife does. Having grown up in Thailand she has not known anyone who has been murdered. Nevertheless, when I asked her if she thought thailand was dangerous, she said yes.

I honestly think the point is the sort of danger here could be smelt from a distance and effort being made could avoid oneself from being involved. I would say the situation is not ideal but acceptable/tolerable. (For a farang)

[meemiathai]

OK, Tolley, Thailand is very dangerous! Then?????????

How do you survive? I might need to learn some skills.

Edited October 25, 2006 by meemiathai

[dekka007]

With Reference to Safety in Pattaya.

I must admit I do feel a lot safer now in Pattaya since they have that muppet tourist police volunteer that sits out side the police bus who does not seem to do anything but scowl at everyone at the bottom of walking street.

What a waste of resources................