Pattaya Immigration to focus on 'overstayer's' and hotel registration offenses

[phycokiller]

Answer: About half i would guess.

There seems to be a lot of interest on this topic. I wonder how many outraged TF'ers here are on overstay or working illegally on tourist visas.

scrolling through the last few pages it looks like half the posts are yours so Im guessing you got that part right

[Woody1]

I have a so-called "retirement visa" (extension of stay on a Non-Immigrant O) I simply don't understand the Thai hysteria at overstayers. They spend TONS more money than Thais. Laws are only followed here in the case of non-Thai persons who lack money.

I'd be a little curious to know how people here on overstays find the means to spend "tons" of money, even compared to a Thai, when they can't even afford to straighten out their visa status.

Well my reg girl at Nataree insists on me visiting her every day, after those 90 mins of fun and the rest of the afternoon tinkering with my online business I simply haven't the time to do visa runs. I do pump 100k/mo into the Ratchada economy however.

Oh the memories...I too had a regular Naratee girl when I was living up in Bangkok 15 years ago (to think, she must be middle-age by now)...she was out of this world; and so that you can keep her in the latest model iPhone and your Mr. Happy happy, I would only suggest that you do try to find the time to legalize your visa situation.

I thought you were gay???

[Mr Creosote]

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

[Yahooka]

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

[harrry]

From the people that I know who have overstayed and are currently overstaying, they are on very very limited monthly budgets, I would guess 15k or less a month. They keep a low profile here and don't bother anyone. Some have been let go after being picked up as immigration does not want pay for their plane ticket back home. Deportation takes a lot of time, paperwork and thai airways must be paid when the foreigner cannot pay or won't pay, meanwhile they have to take care of them while waiting to do this. Most prefer to live here rather than go back and face minor law suites against them or child support payments in their home countries.

It took forever to get that homeless German man who lived on Soi Diana send back.

So I don't see much coming of this press release.

thailand does not pay to send you back. You stay in detention until you or someone pays your fare. there are a few charities that do so after about 6 months for some nationalities.

[Mr Creosote]

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

I have seen and felt the changes over many years but especially over the past 5-10 years. This last year alone, they have made requirements for providing lease agreements or ownership documents on the place you live plus now requiring a visit from immigration officials to your home to photograph officials, with the applicant, in the home (humiliating and time consuming). They interview building management to make sure you are not lying to them (in the case of marriage visas and probably retirement); they want up to the day bank statements (bank book) because they believe people are cheating by borrowing money for the requisite time to show funds in the bank. In the case of student visas, cheats are faking that they are studying in real schools just to get one year visas so now applicants are tested by Immigration officials, schools visited etc.

The cheaters create an environment of mistrust leading to an attitude that ALL foreigners are lying cheats and this means more paperwork, more delays, more hassles, more rules.

[jacko45k]

They need to start cracking down in every city. Thousands of foreign morons, crooks , visa dodgers, baby bangers , here. Thailand would be far better off without the weasels. Hopefully they will check every bar in Pattaya nightly. Should be able to grab hundreds per night. You poor guys are likely crapping in your pants at this very moment.

There are more bars than there are policemen!

[Woody1]

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

I have seen and felt the changes over many years but especially over the past 5-10 years. This last year alone, they have made requirements for providing lease agreements or ownership documents on the place you live plus now requiring a visit from immigration officials to your home to photograph officials, with the applicant, in the home (humiliating and time consuming). They interview building management to make sure you are not lying to them (in the case of marriage visas and probably retirement); they want up to the day bank statements (bank book) because they believe people are cheating by borrowing money for the requisite time to show funds in the bank. In the case of student visas, cheats are faking that they are studying in real schools just to get one year visas so now applicants are tested by Immigration officials, schools visited etc.
The cheaters create an environment of mistrust leading to an attitude that ALL foreigners are lying cheats and this means more paperwork, more delays, more hassles, more rules.

I've been here 15 years now, without any of the nonsense you mention above.
I think they're after you............ohh, and don't go to sleep without checking the wardrobe for the boogie man!!!!

[jacko45k]

Don Mega, some people may not feel like paying out 500.000 Bt, for five years and getting nothing in return with the Elite Visa.

Nothing in return?

Don't they get to live here for 5 years without needing to do any annual renewal.

No re-entry permits required, I spend 3,800 baht/year on this.

Fast track at the airport, lounge access plus in and out and limos to and from the airport. (24 max).

Sure, a hefty price, but for someone who can afford to retire early, or has income, an option.

Edited January 29, 2016 by jacko45k

[Mr Creosote]

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

I have seen and felt the changes over many years but especially over the past 5-10 years. This last year alone, they have made requirements for providing lease agreements or ownership documents on the place you live plus now requiring a visit from immigration officials to your home to photograph officials, with the applicant, in the home (humiliating and time consuming). They interview building management to make sure you are not lying to them (in the case of marriage visas and probably retirement); they want up to the day bank statements (bank book) because they believe people are cheating by borrowing money for the requisite time to show funds in the bank. In the case of student visas, cheats are faking that they are studying in real schools just to get one year visas so now applicants are tested by Immigration officials, schools visited etc.

The cheaters create an environment of mistrust leading to an attitude that ALL foreigners are lying cheats and this means more paperwork, more delays, more hassles, more rules.

I've been here 15 years now, without any of the nonsense you mention above.

I think they're after you............ohh, and don't go to sleep without checking the wardrobe for the boogie man!!!!

So in your 15 years here, the requirements for documentation etc haven't changed one bit? You haven't been delayed or asked for more documents/procedures? If you are saying this then you either have a VERY good contact inside the system or you are not telling the truth or you are part of the problem and somehow cheating the system. I have been here 25 years. I pay my taxes. I have NEVER overstayed nor worked illegally. Yes, I followed the rules here as a guest of the Kingdom and the rules and red tape keep on getting thicker. If everyone was following the rules, it stands to reason that the procedures would get simpler, not more difficult.

[NoshowJones]

Don Mega, some people may not feel like paying out 500.000 Bt, for five years and getting nothing in return with the Elite Visa.

Nothing in return?

Don't they get to live here for 5 years without needing to do any annual renewal.

No re-entry permits required, I spend 3,800 baht/year on this.

Fast track at the airport, lounge access plus in and out and limos to and from the airport. (24 max).

Sure, a hefty price, but for someone who can afford to retire early, or has income, an option.

Yes, it is an option, but it is only for well off people, your average under fifty, has a very poor chance of staying here long term.

The Thai government is very unfair on these people. ie why can they not get an METV in a neighbouring country? I rest my case.

[jacko45k]

Don Mega, some people may not feel like paying out 500.000 Bt, for five years and getting nothing in return with the Elite Visa.

Nothing in return?

Don't they get to live here for 5 years without needing to do any annual renewal.

No re-entry permits required, I spend 3,800 baht/year on this.

Fast track at the airport, lounge access plus in and out and limos to and from the airport. (24 max).

Sure, a hefty price, but for someone who can afford to retire early, or has income, an option.

Yes, it is an option, but it is only for well off people, your average under fifty, has a very poor chance of staying here long term.

The Thai government is very unfair on these people. ie why can they not get an METV in a neighbouring country? I rest my case.

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

Edited January 29, 2016 by jacko45k

[NoshowJones]

Don Mega, some people may not feel like paying out 500.000 Bt, for five years and getting nothing in return with the Elite Visa.

Nothing in return?

Don't they get to live here for 5 years without needing to do any annual renewal.

No re-entry permits required, I spend 3,800 baht/year on this.

Fast track at the airport, lounge access plus in and out and limos to and from the airport. (24 max).

Sure, a hefty price, but for someone who can afford to retire early, or has income, an option.

Yes, it is an option, but it is only for well off people, your average under fifty, has a very poor chance of staying here long term.

The Thai government is very unfair on these people. ie why can they not get an METV in a neighbouring country? I rest my case.

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

[phycokiller]

any arrests yet or are they figuring out their next press release instead?

[HampiK]

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

I have a question: What a under 50 year old want to do in Thailand longterm?

So far I know he is not a tourist, he not work (else would have a work permit). And if you say he have enough money for can stay longer in Thailand, longer than 6 month... then he should be rich enough for a Thai Elite Visa!

Yes I agree, there are a very few people who want make a 1 year travel (time off working in homecountry). But this mean most time different countries for 1 year and not only 1 country. So the initial question stays...

I myself can't think of one reason why a under 50 years old want stay in thailand. Maybe I forget something.. but till know I understand the strategy of Thailand. If i were in charge, I even would look more for the overtayers, because they should know exactly how many overstayers they have in the country... They have an entry date in the computer and no exit date.. and this are the people stay actually in the country.

[NoshowJones]

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

I have a question: What a under 50 year old want to do in Thailand longterm?

So far I know he is not a tourist, he not work (else would have a work permit). And if you say he have enough money for can stay longer in Thailand, longer than 6 month... then he should be rich enough for a Thai Elite Visa!

Yes I agree, there are a very few people who want make a 1 year travel (time off working in homecountry). But this mean most time different countries for 1 year and not only 1 country. So the initial question stays...

I myself can't think of one reason why a under 50 years old want stay in thailand. Maybe I forget something.. but till know I understand the strategy of Thailand. If i were in charge, I even would look more for the overtayers, because they should know exactly how many overstayers they have in the country... They have an entry date in the computer and no exit date.. and this are the people stay actually in the country.

People do retire in their forties, they may have been on holiday in Thailand and fell in love, but do not want to get married.

They may have rented property in their home country, they may have inheritance of some sort.

Again I say it, the Thai government is not fair to under fifties, who want to stay long time and contribute to their economy.

They may not want to stay for five years, so why should they have to spend 500,000 Bt on an elite visa?

Edited January 29, 2016 by possum1931

[Mr Creosote]

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

I have a question: What a under 50 year old want to do in Thailand longterm?

So far I know he is not a tourist, he not work (else would have a work permit). And if you say he have enough money for can stay longer in Thailand, longer than 6 month... then he should be rich enough for a Thai Elite Visa!

Yes I agree, there are a very few people who want make a 1 year travel (time off working in homecountry). But this mean most time different countries for 1 year and not only 1 country. So the initial question stays...

I myself can't think of one reason why a under 50 years old want stay in thailand. Maybe I forget something.. but till know I understand the strategy of Thailand. If i were in charge, I even would look more for the overtayers, because they should know exactly how many overstayers they have in the country... They have an entry date in the computer and no exit date.. and this are the people stay actually in the country.

People do retire in their forties, they may have been on holiday in Thailand and fell in love, but do not want to get married.

They may have rented property in their home country, they may have inheritance of some sort.

Again I say it, the Thai government is not fair to under fifties, who want to stay long time and contribute to their economy.

They may not want to stay for five years, so why should they have to spend 500,000 Bt on an elite visa?

Do you have any idea of what percentage of people under 50 fall into that category? Not many that I have run into. The fact is that many (most) are simply breaking the laws of the land. Simple.

[jacko45k]

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

I have a question: What a under 50 year old want to do in Thailand longterm?

So far I know he is not a tourist, he not work (else would have a work permit). And if you say he have enough money for can stay longer in Thailand, longer than 6 month... then he should be rich enough for a Thai Elite Visa!

Yes I agree, there are a very few people who want make a 1 year travel (time off working in homecountry). But this mean most time different countries for 1 year and not only 1 country. So the initial question stays...

I myself can't think of one reason why a under 50 years old want stay in thailand. Maybe I forget something.. but till know I understand the strategy of Thailand. If i were in charge, I even would look more for the overtayers, because they should know exactly how many overstayers they have in the country... They have an entry date in the computer and no exit date.. and this are the people stay actually in the country.

People do retire in their forties, they may have been on holiday in Thailand and fell in love, but do not want to get married.

They may have rented property in their home country, they may have inheritance of some sort.

Again I say it, the Thai government is not fair to under fifties, who want to stay long time and contribute to their economy.

They may not want to stay for five years, so why should they have to spend 500,000 Bt on an elite visa?

Do you have any idea of what percentage of people under 50 fall into that category? Not many that I have run into. The fact is that many (most) are simply breaking the laws of the land. Simple.

It smacks of a sense of entitlement in a foreign country.

I still feel someone who, at under fifty, has the finances to live in Thailand and not work, should be able to scratch together 500,000 baht.

He will need substantial money for medical insurance, a place to live etc.

If he or she does not want to stay 5 years, well less money would likely get them some other legitimate way to stay.

If they have fallen in love, marriage is an option, which opens up extension possibilities.

I actually feel Thailand is quite accommodating, all one needs to do is get old. The fact that their easy going past was abused has made them get stricter over time, and the country has become a haven for those 'on the run' or working here without required permission..... time to address it.

[NoshowJones]

Mr Creosote. That's just it, they should not have to break the law, the genuine ones that are here, not working illegally, and contributing honestly to the Thai economy,

I hope they get away with it, and no, I am not under fifty rears old.

[NoshowJones]

Jacko45k. I suppose you are one of the, we are "guests" in this country brigade.

Where would Thailand be without us Westerners? If they did not need us, we would not be here.