How Do You Say This ?

[boxig]

Hi,

I know sometimes you can't translate the sentence as it is in English, and using TUK or DON in a passive with question, together with Gamlang" looks to me not perfect. Here are two sentences which I would like to hear what do you think about the best translation should be:

"The man is being bitten by the dog ?"

"The child is being kissed by his mother ?"

Thank you all

box

[davidjtayler]

Hi,

I know sometimes you can't translate the sentence as it is in English, and using TUK or DON in a passive with question, together with Gamlang" looks to me not perfect. Here are two sentences which I would like to hear what do you think about the best translation should be:

"The man is being bitten by the dog ?"

"The child is being kissed by his mother ?"

Thank you all

box

maa gat khun un or khun don maa gat ... are both acceptable for the dog

mare gamlang joop luk or mare joop luk ... for the kiss

If the dog is just about to bite the man then ... maa gamlang ja gat khun un

[boxig]

Thanks

But those are supposed to be questions and here is where I'm not sure.

We should add "Mai" or "Ru Plao" and then it soesn't sound very correct.

[davidjtayler]

Thanks

But those are supposed to be questions and here is where I'm not sure.

We should add "Mai" or "Ru Plao" and then it soesn't sound very correct.

Sorry ... I didnt see those question marks first time ... but yes by adding Ru plao or Mai will do ... there are many acceptable ways of asking these questions and you can omit gamlang but will be understood if you leave it in.

Basically the simpler the better here ....

[meadish_sweetball]

It does not really make sense to try to construct sentences in Thai based on the grammatical features of another language, which is probably what your language sense is telling you.

BTW, to make the questions grammatical in English, you'd need to reverse the word order - "Is the man being bitten by the dog?" "Is the child being kissed by his mother?"

But both sound rather artificial. The first sentence sounds weird in English because the -ing form implies duration, so it sounds like the man is constantly being bitten by the dog. Probably for the same reason, it sounds weird in Thai with "kamlang".

phuu[F] chaai[M] khon[M] nan[H] kamlang[MM] doon[M]/thuuk[L] maa[R] kad[L] rue[R] (plaaw)[L]

mae[F] kamlang[MM] juub[L] luuk[F] yuu[L] rue[R] (plaaw)[L]

It should also be noted that this type of passive construction is much less frequent in Thai than it is in English. The use of 'doon' and 'thuuk' is also primarily reserved for negative connotations - in other words, they would be perfectly acceptable in the case of being bitten by a dog, arrested by the police or hit in the head with a bottle, but less likely in the case of the mother kissing her child, which is more likely to be seen as something positive.

The use of ถูก in neutral or positive constructions does occur, but is more often a result of laziness in translation of English sentences using the passive voice, where the translator cannot be bothered to think one step further and reconstruct the sentence into the active voice instead.

[boxig]

meadish_sweetball

Thank you for your very profound explanation.

Of course when speaking I never try to translate such sentences and I'm using the minimum needed to be understood.

One question, why you use Don+Tuk in the first sentence (it sounds better with both and I assume this is the reason) ?

Thank you

box

Edited October 20, 2006 by boxig

[meadish_sweetball]

Sorry, that sentence wasnt clear. I meant either "doon" or "thuuk". The only difference is that "thuuk" is used more in spoken and formal language, and "doon" is more colloquial.

[boxig]

Pitty. It sound much better with both Don and Tuk.

Can we use both together ?

[Rikker]

No, you can't use both together. Either one works, though.