Wifes name on British Passport

[mrskint]

Hi guys,

Quick question, this won't be an issue just yet but need to start thinking about it now for down the road.

When my wife gets British citizenship we would like to have her passport in her English married surname to make things easier here.

Her Thai passport currently has her Thai maiden name as does all her Thai ID/driving licence etc.

So the question is does she need to start changing her Thai passport and other documents to her English married name to get the British passport in the English name also?

Obviously we have the wedding certificate, which is evidence of change of surname, is that enough to get the British passport in the English surname?

TY in advance

[steve187]

thats what my wife has, but she had her UK passport for some time now. all UK stuff married name all thai stuff Thai name, maybe things have changed with biometric cards etc.

[7by7]

There is no legal requirement in either Thailand or the UK for a wife to take her husband's surname upon marriage.

In the UK one can use any name one wishes, as long as there is no intention to deceive. I think, but am not sure, that it's the same in Thailand.

For example, the barrister and judge Cherie Booth uses her married name, Cherie Blair, whenever it suits her.

So there is, as far as I am aware, no legal reason why your wife cannot have a British passport in her married name and a Thai passport in her maiden name.

BUT:

Doing so may cause difficulties with airlines when travelling to and from Thailand.

Obviously, she will want to use her Thai passport to enter Thailand and her British one to enter the UK.

When checking in, the airline will want to see that she can enter her destination and so will want to see the appropriate passport.

They will also want to see that the name on the passport is the same as the name on the ticket, and if it isn't will need evidence that ticket and passport do, indeed, belong to the same person.

Usually overcome by producing the other passport and her marriage certificate, with translation if necessary.

But she would need to do that every time she travelled to Thailand and back.

So, IMHO, simpler to either use her maiden name for her UK passport or change her Thai one, and her Thai ID card, to her married one.

[Bantex]

When we got married, my wife wanted to change her surname. She took our marriage certificate and a copy of my passport data page to her local amphur where the changed her Thai ID card immediately. She then changed her Thai passport as well.

If your wife wants to keep her maiden name in the Thai passport the easy option is to get her to change to married name on Thai ID card. Her unique ID card number also appears in the Thai passport.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bantex

[steve187]

you only need UK passport to enter the UK, leaving Uk and entering and leaving Thailand is all done with Thai passport, so tickets in maiden name are ok, my wife has never needed to show marriage certificate to airline. but yes they will require proof of being allowed entry to the UK, at Thai check in.

[Thongkorn]

My wife has a Thai passport and an English passport, The English passport has her name on it that was use to get her Visas, But all we did was to put My Sir name on the end of her Thai name From the beginning of making the Visa process that was a few years ago now, all her Thai passport and ID cards are still in her Thai name.

[Richard W]

There is no legal requirement in either Thailand or the UK for a wife to take her husband's surname upon marriage.

In the UK one can use any name one wishes, as long as there is no intention to deceive. I think, but am not sure, that it's the same in Thailand.

For example, the barrister and judge Cherie Booth uses her married name, Cherie Blair, whenever it suits her.

So there is, as far as I am aware, no legal reason why your wife cannot have a British passport in her married name and a Thai passport in her maiden name.

A passport for a British citizen is a privilege and not a right. So far as I am aware, the only rights one has is not to be arbitrarily refused a passport, and to be granted an appropriate travel document to return to the UK if subject to a temporary exclusion order.

Since I put out an alert on the problem with getting a British passport in a different name to other passports (UK problem with different names in different passports), I have found an alarmingly circumscribed concession that is of no help in this case.

It is on printed p4 of Applying for a passport from outside the UK (I couldn't find an equivalent guide for applying from within the UK!). There is the requirement

The name that is shown on the passport should be the name that is used for all purposes.

with the concession

You should check the requirements for the country you are in for when and how a name can be changed as this may not meet UK requirements. If you live in such a country, HM Passport Office will issue your passport in the new name with an observation to say that the holder is also known by their original name.

This is the concession to the usage of maiden names in passports of countries that will not let people change surname upon marriage.

So, the answer is, start changing the name in the Thai documents. I think the first passport renewal after marriage will do, but I am not certain there will be no problem with BRPs at the roughly 30-month stage. Also, I am not sure if there will be a fine if the current BRP is not replaced when the name in the passport changes; I don't believe leave to remain will be withdrawn because of the discrepancy.

[wooloomooloo]

Thanks for your recent posts, Richard. I enjoy a complicated life and your many uncertainties but not sure the majority will follow.

Edited February 7, 2016 by wooloomooloo

[highlander403]

My wife has a Thai passport and an English passport, The English passport has her name on it that was use to get her Visas, But all we did was to put My Sir name on the end of her Thai name From the beginning of making the Visa process that was a few years ago now, all her Thai passport and ID cards are still in her Thai name.

thongkorn and just where did your wife get her "ENGLISH PASSPORT" as there is no such animal surely you mean BRITTISH as in united kingdom

[Thongkorn]

My wife has a Thai passport and an English passport, The English passport has her name on it that was use to get her Visas, But all we did was to put My Sir name on the end of her Thai name From the beginning of making the Visa process that was a few years ago now, all her Thai passport and ID cards are still in her Thai name.

thongkorn and just where did your wife get her "ENGLISH PASSPORT" as there is no such animal surely you mean BRITTISH as in united kingdom

Because i am English and proud of it, you can have a Welsh passport and a Scottish Passport and an Irish Passport, I am Part of Britain I am ENGLISH,, I have no choice but to except Institutional Racism , along with having to put my wife through Visa requirements with medicals and no recourse to public funds, and all my finances looked at. yet If you come from Eastern Europe you dont have to fit or do any of this criteria , Rant over.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Thongkorn

[Bantex]

Because i am English and proud of it, you can have a Welsh passport and a Scottish Passport and an Irish Passport, I am Part of Britain I am ENGLISH

.

If your English then your part of Great Britain. When you state "Irish Passport" I assume you actually mean Northern Ireland which is not part of Great Britain but is a part of the United Kingdom.

An Irish Passport is something completely different.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bantex

[Richard W]

Thanks for your recent posts, Richard. I enjoy a complicated life and your many uncertainties but not sure the majority will follow.

Well, the simple approach is to assume that the names of people in Britain may no longer change. As far as immigration related changes go, the simple sequence is:

1) Get married name in Thai passport, e.g. at renewal.

2) Change name on BRP and driving licence* to match new passport.

3) Use married name for next leave application (ILR or FLR), or naturalisation if next.

*Driving without ILR may be seen as a gratuitous risk. A court appearance associated with one's driving may delay ILR.

The problem with Step 2 is that it is undesirable for it to clash with extending leave to remain, but too large a gap betweens steps 1 and 2 may result in a £125 civil penalty. Changing the name and extending leave within three months (but I haven't checked the regulations) appears to be acceptable, and therefore desirable.

[Richard W]

Because i am English and proud of it, you can have a Welsh passport and a Scottish Passport and an Irish Passport, I am Part of Britain I am ENGLISH,, I have no choice but to except Institutional Racism , along with having to put my wife through Visa requirements with medicals and no recourse to public funds, and all my finances looked at. yet If you come from Eastern Europe you dont have to fit or do any of this criteria , Rant over.

If it's any consolation, Russian and Ukrainian wives in Britain have to go through the same process.

[Richard W]

So there is, as far as I am aware, no legal reason why your wife cannot have a British passport in her married name and a Thai passport in her maiden name.

If not a 'legal reason', how would you describe Section 10 of the document valid from February 2015 referenced by Change of name guidance for artificial documents? Section 10 reads:

Holders of non-British passports and national identity cards must also provide evidence they have amended the details in other passport(s) and any national identity cards they hold, unless there are exceptional circumstances that would seriously adversely affect their life in the UK, such as those set out in paragraphs 18 to 25. The names used in these documents take precedent to names used in other supporting documents, such as marriage certificates and deed polls.

[highlander403]

quote thongkorn "Because i am English and proud of it, you can have a Welsh passport and a Scottish Passport and an Irish Passport, I am Part of Britain I am ENGLISH"

thongkorn i applaud your sense of pride in your country as i do with the welsh irish and scots, but nowhere have i ever seen a scots welsh or northern ireland passports, nor to my memory posting on this and other forums have i ever seen a post from scottish n.ireland or welsh national claiming to have those countries passports, but have seen various english nationals do so..

keep your pride in your country but just admit on the front cover of your wifes and your passport it says uk and not england

[7by7]

Because i am English and proud of it, you can have a Welsh passport and a Scottish Passport and an Irish Passport, I am Part of Britain I am ENGLISH,, I have no choice but to except Institutional Racism , along with having to put my wife through Visa requirements with medicals and no recourse to public funds, and all my finances looked at. yet If you come from Eastern Europe you dont have to fit or do any of this criteria , Rant over.

There is no such thing as a Scottish, Welsh or, indeed, Northern Irish passport.

People from those parts of the UK have British passports the same as the English do.

Anyone born anywhere on the island of Ireland prior to 1/1/2005 is considered by the Republic of Ireland to be an Irish citizen and so can have an Irish passport. If born after that date at least one of their parents must have been Irish, British or be living in the RoI or NI with no time restriction for them to be automatically Irish; but if not then they can still apply for Irish citizenship.

Of course, if they are also British then can have a British passport as well as, or instead of, an Irish one.

I take it your rant about Eastern Europeans refers to the EEA freedom of movement regulations. These apply to all EEA nationals, not just those from Eastern Europe!

If you object to the EEA freedom of movement rights you should direct you rant at all those who take advantage of them, including the approx. 1.5 to 2 million British citizens currently exercising their freedom of movement rights in other EEA countries.

You go on about racism; but by singling out Eastern Europeans as the subject of your rant and ignoring the rest, are you not being racist yourself?

[7by7]

So there is, as far as I am aware, no legal reason why your wife cannot have a British passport in her married name and a Thai passport in her maiden name.

If not a 'legal reason', how would you describe Section 10 of the document valid from February 2015 referenced by Change of name guidance for artificial documents? Section 10 reads:

Holders of non-British passports and national identity cards must also provide evidence they have amended the details in other passport(s) and any national identity cards they hold, unless there are exceptional circumstances that would seriously adversely affect their life in the UK, such as those set out in paragraphs 18 to 25. The names used in these documents take precedent to names used in other supporting documents, such as marriage certificates and deed polls.

I did say "as far as I am aware."

But thank you for updating me that this may no longer be possible.

Although I note that document is regarding changing one's name on an official document, such as a passport; not obtaining that document in the first place.

Are you sure it is relevant here?

However, there is no legal reason why a married woman cannot use her maiden name in her British passport; unless you know different.

[Richard W]

Although I note that document is regarding changing one's name on an official document, such as a passport; not obtaining that document in the first place.

Are you sure it is relevant here?

If there is a pre-existing foreign passport in the maiden name, then getting a British document in a married name will generally be a change of name. So, for most practical purposes, yes.

However, there is no legal reason why a married woman cannot use her maiden name in her British passport; unless you know different.

Indeed, a dual national of the UK and a clone of the UK could have great difficulty changing their name - each country would require the other's passport to be changed or cancelled first!

Of course, this is guidance, not law, so I wondered if you did have a more appropriate phrase for it than 'legal reason'. I'm not sure whether the policy can be challenged in the courts. There is no appeal against a refusal of a 'no time limit' BRP; I am not sure about BRPs evidencing limited leave.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Richard W

[Richard W]

One of my wife's friends had been using her married name in her British passport and her maiden name in her Thai passport. She's just hit the problem. Her husband tried to sort it out with HMPO, who suggested that she surrender her Thai passport!