Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[PeaceBlondie]

Boatabike, I'm no expert or nothing, but I can't see this funky exam for "teachers" being directly tied to your work permit or your visa. Those are each administered by separate Thai agencies. And traditionally in Thailand, flunking an 'exam' doesn't mean much, if anything.

If the school needs you and considers your services valuable, they will bend over backwards, Thai style, to keep you. They may never give you an exam. They may not grade the exam (or know how to). Ajarn Nachacannotteachalot probably will just sign some document and give it to Director Wainotwaimeforabaht, and you'll keep teaching - especially if the school is getting extra funds because you're teaching Engrit.

[Loaded]

Ajarn Nachacannotteachalot probably will just sign some document and give it to Director Wainotwaimeforabaht,

And ask the 2 gay farang teachers - Ben Dover and Phil McCavity - to give one to the director as well.

Sorry Steven, a little tongue in cheek ( ) double entendre that I couldn't resist.

[nakhonsi sean]

Just found out a bit of news from the boss. Cut of dates for teachers licence is June 2003. If your work permit was issued before that date you get a teachers licence and do not have to take a test.

The test, she says will cover 9 criteria but Bangkok has not said what they are yet! She only knows it covers English, Thai culture and possibly maths! As someone else has mentioned, docs need to be filed by the end of November.

[Casanundra]

Maths?

I thought you were all meant to be English conversation teachers with a bit of grammar thrown in... when did maths suddenly become a requirement for English Conversation teaching?

Oh I get it, all future English classes muct include questions such as:

"Now children, hands up those who know how many grammar rules there are..."

Or

"ok what is the answer to verb 1 multiplied by verb 2 minus verb 3... come on Tongrob, you are meant to be the maths genious... jeeez what's wrong with you Thai students?"

Just curious, but what are they going to do with all those wannabe teachers who arrive AFTER 2003 with several degrees, a doctorate and a wealth of experience but no specific teaching qualification per sae beyond a TEFL? tell them they must throw their certificates in the corner in favour of a Thai test on how to jump through silly hoops?

I am so glad to not be an English teacher in Thailand as it sounds like it is getting worse by the day.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Casanundra

[ray23]

You know I don't teach don't feel qaulified to do so. I have an Associates in Law Enforcement, at one point thought of continuing my education to obtain a Bachelors and completing the TEFl just to have something to do.

You know I finally came to the conclusion that it was insane to do so, My retirement is enough. Well I made the right decesion. I really feel for you guys.

Why is it Thailand just keeps finding more and more hoops for farrangs to jump through, Is it truly entertaining to them and we are just missing it?

Well good luck to you all, your in a profession that truly makes the world better when you are really allowed to teach

[Boatabike]

Feeling a little more relaxed right now so thought might raise a few points I think are important. There are a lot of us teaching here not qualified to do so, my BA in model design does not qualify me to say I am a teacher, but I am learning and so are my kids. The reason I am concerned by taking a test is because I should not pass it. I did not study for 4 years to be a teacher. A good teacher license should be set so that those who have studied to be a teacher can prove they are up to it. Is this not correct? I should not pass a "good" teachers exam I simple should fail. Ok I know this is Thailand but that aside if I pass that exam, and pass it should by any standard I am trying to install in my kids, be a joke. I have fought long and hard at my school to be able to fail my students if they can't do the exams I set. Yes they can re-sit it, and I have one student on his 5th attempt this week. He will pass but it will be because he got the marks required, eventually. Now if I manage to, or my school manage to, get that license I feel it makes mockery of what I am teaching, of course faced with the alternative I will play it Thai style I guess but it really does go against the grain. My school will not be able to pay enough to hire a fully qualified teacher, unless very, very lucky. The kids are from very poor families on the whole, we are the school that refuses no child and kicks out no one. We get some pretty rough and ready kids. But I get on great with them, despite the huge frustration some of their background situations create. But I don't think they would be able to attract a qualified person on the money offered nor the frustrations encountered. If I hadn't lived in that town longer then most of my kids I would probably have moved on a while ago.

I think I managed to scare them (the school) into actually thinking about what they are being asked to do concerning this exam. I sweetly explained I was looking for a job in Laos in case it all went wrong here due to Government policy. I also happened to mention that the qualified teachers Thailand now want will cost about 50K a month. That was if there were any left. I felt fair doing this as they gave me a 2 week holiday of doubt and worry this mid term by telling me just a little of all this the day we broke up, bless. Sometime in the next week or 2 I will be adding that if I have a license I will of course require to be paid accordingly as a qualified foreign teacher. I do believe this will get them on the phone to where ever; asking is all this needed, what’s going on, why etc. I strongly recommend any teacher out there to mention the pay raise that will accompany this exam. If enough people raise this issue they may decide on that alone to stop it.

[mijan24]

Feeling a little more relaxed right now so thought might raise a few points I think are important. There are a lot of us teaching here not qualified to do so, my BA in model design does not qualify me to say I am a teacher, but I am learning and so are my kids. The reason I am concerned by taking a test is because I should not pass it. I did not study for 4 years to be a teacher. A good teacher license should be set so that those who have studied to be a teacher can prove they are up to it. Is this not correct? I should not pass a "good" teachers exam I simple should fail. Ok I know this is Thailand but that aside if I pass that exam, and pass it should by any standard I am trying to install in my kids, be a joke. I have fought long and hard at my school to be able to fail my students if they can't do the exams I set. Yes they can re-sit it, and I have one student on his 5th attempt this week. He will pass but it will be because he got the marks required, eventually. Now if I manage to, or my school manage to, get that license I feel it makes mockery of what I am teaching, of course faced with the alternative I will play it Thai style I guess but it really does go against the grain. My school will not be able to pay enough to hire a fully qualified teacher, unless very, very lucky. The kids are from very poor families on the whole, we are the school that refuses no child and kicks out no one. We get some pretty rough and ready kids. But I get on great with them, despite the huge frustration some of their background situations create. But I don't think they would be able to attract a qualified person on the money offered nor the frustrations encountered. If I hadn't lived in that town longer then most of my kids I would probably have moved on a while ago.

I think I managed to scare them (the school) into actually thinking about what they are being asked to do concerning this exam. I sweetly explained I was looking for a job in Laos in case it all went wrong here due to Government policy. I also happened to mention that the qualified teachers Thailand now want will cost about 50K a month. That was if there were any left. I felt fair doing this as they gave me a 2 week holiday of doubt and worry this mid term by telling me just a little of all this the day we broke up, bless. Sometime in the next week or 2 I will be adding that if I have a license I will of course require to be paid accordingly as a qualified foreign teacher. I do believe this will get them on the phone to where ever; asking is all this needed, what’s going on, why etc. I strongly recommend any teacher out there to mention the pay raise that will accompany this exam. If enough people raise this issue they may decide on that alone to stop it.

Boatabike if you have studied for four years to gain a BA in model design why would you worry about a simple test here in Thailand? The culture bit has always been a requirement that they haven't bothered to enforce in recent times.

The point you make about salary levels is fair, but when you consider a Thai with a degree who wishes to teach must go back for approx 5 months which includes practical assessments etc. and includes some Sat/Sun with no pay during training and then receives one third of the $ you (a self admitted unqualified and worried about an English exam) are being paid?

Even though you are doing a good job at a school that does not say no to any student (which in itself is questionable - not the job you are doing the latter - of not saying no to any student). Thinking you have scared the school admin is a pipe dream, I am a true believer of the Bucket of Water concept - meaning we all at one time or another believe we can not be done without - align that to withdrawing your arm out of a bucket filled with water - the water is turbulent for a period (read place of work here) it then settles and life (workplace) goes on as it has done before you or I arrived and left - sorry if this pricks your self blown bubble.

Edited October 31, 2006 by mijan24

[Boatabike]

Well my BA was 20 years ago now, and I am worried because I believe I should fail. Not want to, but should. I shouldn't be able to pass an exam I am unqualified in, I am not saying I will fail; but if I pass it surely there is something wrong with the exam. If that is the case then why are we doing it in the first place if it indeed means nothing? OK so I am maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill TiT but I prefer mountains lol.

Are you saying that anyone who has a degree in anything can therefore pass any exam? I don't think that’s what you mean but why should I be able pass a teaching exam when that is not my field of study?

Your points about what a Thai teacher has to do to qualify are not really relevant unless they are only going to only hire qualified foreign teachers and pay them well to move half way round the world to teach their children for them. To expect me and others to become fully qualified to teach they must also expect to raise the rewards along with it, that they are not prepared to do that is why I am allowed to work here in the first place. I agree that fully qualified teachers with lots of experience should be a good thing, but they get what they pay for. Where i work all the English (Thais) department are on the same sort of money i am, of course they have had to work 20-30 years to get to that level but do you think that i should be on the same rate as a new teacher instead? It would solve a few probs if that was the case because i wouldn't be doing the job in the first place if this was the case.

My pipe dream as you put it is no dream. I am fully aware that they will do fine without me I do not kid myself that easily, but a qualified teacher will cost them more is a fact not dream, the look on the admins face was a fact not a dream, if I leave they will replace me, but it wont be with anyone more qualified unless they pay more and they wont, and as they seem to be quite happy with the devil they know they may do what they can to keep me. And if you read what I said again I simply said I think I scared them into thinking about the situation the gov. is creating for them which can't be a bad thing for them, the kids and for me. I really do like my kids, my mafia class included, they all want to be mafia when they grow up bless. Would you like to teach kids with aims that high for 24k a month?

[mijan24]

Well my BA was 20 years ago now, and I am worried because I believe I should fail. Not want to, but should. I shouldn't be able to pass an exam I am unqualified in, I am not saying I will fail; but if I pass it surely there is something wrong with the exam. If you are a native speaker what is the concern? If that is the case then why are we doing it in the first place if it indeed means nothing? OK so I am maybe making a mountain out of a mole hill TiT but I prefer mountains lol. Yes that comes over loud & clear.

Are you saying that anyone who has a degree in anything can therefore pass any exam? I don't think that’s what you mean but why should I be able pass a teaching exam when that is not my field of study? But you are teaching you have a TEFL Cert I assume, and the powers of research & study.

Your points about what a Thai teacher has to do to qualify are not really relevant unless they are only going to only hire qualified foreign teachers and pay them well to move half way round the world to teach their children for them. To expect me and others to become fully qualified to teach they must also expect to raise the rewards along with it, that they are not prepared to do that is why I am allowed to work here in the first place. I agree that fully qualified teachers with lots of experience should be a good thing, but they get what they pay for. Where i work all the English (Thais) department are on the same sort of money i am, are you sure about that? of course they have had to work 20-30 years to get to that level but do you think that i should be on the same rate as a new teacher instead? It would solve a few probs if that was the case because i wouldn't be doing the job in the first place if this was the case.

My pipe dream as you put it is no dream. I am fully aware that they will do fine without me I do not kid myself that easily, but a qualified teacher will cost them more is a fact not dream, 24k in the boonies is a fact of life for the white faced farang even less for other races and that is a fact the look on the admins face was a fact not a dream, if I leave they will replace me, but it wont be with anyone more qualified unless they pay more and they wont, and as they seem to be quite happy with the devil they know they may do what they can to keep me. And if you read what I said again I simply said I think I scared them into thinking about the situation the gov. is creating for them which can't be a bad thing for them, the kids and for me. I really do like my kids, my mafia class included, they all want to be mafia when they grow up bless. Would you like to teach kids with aims that high for 24k a month?

Boatabike only one question - Did they recruit you from overseas or did you arrive here of your own free will? It is your thread and not wanting to steer it away from your original post I will leave well enough alone. Mate stop worrying what ever will be will be, the hierachy may even make it an open book exam.

Edited October 31, 2006 by mijan24

[PeaceBlondie]

Boatabike, you have reason to be concerned or scared of the unknown in your situation regarding this 'exam,' but I suspect you're committing that cardinal sin in Thailand, of 'being too serious.' Chances are, you won't fail the exam, or they somehow will never get around to giving you the exam, or marking it.

Yes, I was making the same salary you make, and the Thai teachers made around the same (I'm sure). There's a TEFL teacher in an EP up north who makes 10K per month less than his wife. And he has a degree in English, and many years of experience!

I always say that there's simply no comparison, or as you said no relevance, between the stated salary of a Thai teacher and a farang teacher. No connection whatsoever.

Don't be serious. Mai bpen rai, and so forth.

[mijan24]

Boatabike thought you may find this of interest - I have copied it from the Ajarn forum on Ajarn.com.

Re: UPDATED - MOE Regulations - UPDATED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation

The Teachers Council Thailand

Standards, Methods of Testing and Knowledge Evaluation of Foreigners Applying for Teacher Permits 2006

Clause 1: In this announcement, ‘permit applicant’ means foreigners who are applying for a teacher permit. ‘Foreigners’ means people not of Thai nationality.

Clause 2: Requirements in the testing and knowledge evaluation of foreign applicants for a teacher permit consist of the following:

2.1. Language and Thai culture.

2.2 Professional Ethics

2.3 Pedagogical Knowledge

(Translators note: ‘pedagogical knowledge’ is defined in another official document elsewhere and is omitted here for brevity and sanity)

Clause 3: Permit applicants who have at least one year of teaching experience must pass only 2.1 and 2.2 in the testing and knowledge evaluation requirements listed above and hold one of the qualifications that follow:

3.1 A degree related to Education, or;

3.2 A degree from another field and teacher registration from the applicant’s respective country or;

3.3 A degree from any other field and certification related to Education which took at least one year to complete.

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience:

Clause 5: Upon the successful completion of the evaluation requirements listed in clauses 3 or 4, the permit applicant has within three years to lodge the application for a teacher permit. The application must be lodged with copies of the following documents

[Casanundra]

Well that's the teaching profession in Thailand killed then...

[Loaded]

A Thai language and culture test!

How will schools recruit teachers from abroad? Put them through an intensive 2-month language programme before the academic year begins? LoL.

Ethics? In Thailand? I'm rolling around in tears

The rest is just nonsense.

An opportunity for the MoE to earn some money under the table methinks.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well that's the teaching profession in Thailand killed then...

Well, maybe it depends what we (or they) define as the "teaching profession." The B.Ed., certified, licensed, etc., in their home country-professional real educator/academic types are worth 100K per month or double that; they're not worried. They're probably not who's involved in this problem.

It would endanger the slap-dash and semi-slap-dash programs of TEFL, MEP, EP, etc., if they actually went at it 100%. Would anybody care to wager 1,000 baht on the chances of that happening?

[Robski]

So many people ask the question "do I need a degree?" as the official line is, that it is required. Well here it is in black and white, confirmation of the official line. If like me you don't have a degree, it makes no difference really, I've still got to give it 100% and make the right impression to the right people. The Gov. are just making the ground rules clear, as they seem to be doing in so many areas at the moment, so that at some point in the future if I fail to give it 100% or P off the wrong person or they find a Uni bod who will fill my shoes for twenty k, they can get rid of me like a shot without embarrassment to themselves. If it gets rid of the less desirable elements in Thai ELT teaching great.

For the many teachers doing a good job without a degree, keep up the good work, keep smiling, make sure your shirt's clean and don't forget to wai those who decide your fate.

[Boatabike]

First I would like to apologize to mijan24 as reading my post again I came across some what defensive I feel. You were offering your thoughts and doing it in a polite manner sorry if I was a little snappish there. My school is on the case for me so I say no more on this till I know for sure, they understand the problem and have taken on board the fact that it worries me; they really are rather nice folk. 2 of our department were very genuinely concerned I was losing sleep bless.

It was just bad luck for me that Thailand should decide to amend its Visa laws and working requirements both at the same time as I seem to be having a mid life crisis. Hmm or maybe they triggered it. Anyway for those who have advised Jai yen I agree and have taken note, thanks for the time taken to reply to my concerns.

Robski a lot of what you say makes sense too, although you are rather implying that they have managed to master the art of forward planning which may very well scupper your theory totally. But I like what you say and to a logical person it seems quite possible that these ground rules, as you put them, could just sit there waiting for the right moment to be used against you. I will await the results as my paper work was all submitted to the office today. Good luck to all who may need it.

[Ijustwannateach]

A bit off topic, but I just wanted to say again that I love you guys...

[Robski]

You are super moderator 'Steve'

[1900]

Part of the story I don't find clear is my case. Got here way before 2003, have California State teaching credential, 25 years experience but my present WP is 5 months old. Will they count all the other WPs from the past?

This is new rule insane! I can earn 60+K a year in California but I like it here, have no Thai wife but I don't drink and whore around, keep a lo pro, got a stack of letters of recommendation, no legal hassles in either country, treat Thais with respect .. isn't that enough? Do they expect more from a teacher at 33,000 a month?

[Boatabike]

The way i have heard it is yes. If you have been working for more than 3 years you will still have to submit your documents but it will go no further than that. Part of what is happening is to weed out those without any WP. If you have been working for the time scale you say then unless you have changed jobs a lot and the trail has been broken at some point, if all your paper work is in order there really should be no problem at all. Then again anything could happen. Good luck to you.

Edit

if you have teaching creds too, then that will also exempt you from further action. You should be fine go get a good night sleep with no worry.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Boatabike

[1900]

That's nice. Thank you, although I can sleep through a world war without chemic inducement.

[Moonhunteruk]

just a quick check as i have read through all 4 pages so far and no one seamed to mention the 500 baht fee, i submitted all my docs today along with the 500 baht fee, was told the exam was on thai language and some english but nothing more.

Did anyone else have to pay this fee or was the Englsih dept on the fiddle?

Mike

[Scott]

No, the fee is legitimate. Anyone licensed before June 2003 does not have to pay the fee--they will get a new teacher's license after their documents are submitted. Those after the 2003 cut-off date have to pay the 500 baht fee.

[Scott]

There is some confusion as to why the rules are being changed now and why the June 2003 is magical. In 2003, they changed the rules for Teacher's Licensing. Since that time, they have been working on the Licensing of Thai Teachers. Like foreign teachers, the Thai's had lots of people who were licensed without degrees--either two year certificates etc. They changed the rules on them. Those before that time were allowed to continue with their license. New ones, however, had to meet the new criteria.

The Thai portion is complete, so now it's our turn.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think we need to have a serious and detailed discussion about the new teacher's requirements and regulations that may or may not be in place now. On some other websites, bits and pieces of the rules have already been posted. Does anyone have the whole slew of them, and could you please link to them or post them here?

I will "control" posts that take us unduly in the direction of "do you have to have a degree to bake a cake?" but it isn't my desire to stifle debate. Any information that is genuinely helpful in interpreting details of the new policy is welcome.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

I am shamelessly stealing this from the Antithesis at Ajarn, to whom all we teachers owe a lot:

Translation

The Teachers’ Council Thailand

Standards, Methods of Testing and Knowledge Evaluation of Foreigners Applying for Teacher Permits 2006

Clause 1: In this announcement, ‘permit applicant’ means foreigners who are applying for a teacher permit. ‘Foreigners’ means people not of Thai nationality.

Clause 2: Requirements in the testing and knowledge evaluation of foreign applicants for a teacher permit consist of the following:

2.1. Language and Thai culture.

2.2 Professional Ethics

2.3 Pedagogical Knowledge

(Translators note: ‘pedagogical knowledge’ is defined in another official document elsewhere and is omitted here for brevity and sanity)

Clause 3: Permit applicants who have at least one year of teaching experience must pass only 2.1 and 2.2 in the testing and knowledge evaluation requirements listed above and hold one of the qualifications that follow:

3.1 A degree related to Education, or;

3.2 A degree from another field and teacher registration from the applicant’s respective country or;

3.3 A degree from any other field and certification related to Education which took at least one year to complete.

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience:

2.1. Language and Thai culture.

2.2 Professional Ethics

2.3 Pedagogical Knowledge

(Translators note: pedagogical knowledge is defined in another document elsewhere and is omitted here for brevity and sanity)

Clause 5: Upon the successful completion of the evaluation requirements listed in clauses 3 or 4, the permit applicant has within three years to lodge the application for a teacher permit. The application must be lodged with copies of the following documents…

__________________

It is apparently a translation of a document scanned and posted as follows:

Further helpful comments by Zehner continue:

here's the gist of it as far as i can tell.

Teachers appointed prior to 12th june 2003 can apply for the license by themselves. They need to supply a photocopy of educational qualifications. They do not have to do the thai language, culture, and ethics ( ) training.

All teachers appointed after 11th june 2003 (very basically) have to supply a letter certifying assessment and evaluation criteria.

The educational qualifications bit means a B.Ed or PGCE equivilant as far as i can tell. If you don't have this then you will have to do a course (which has not been set) and sit an exam consisting of 4 papers:

Paper 1 - language and technology for teachers

- educational innovation and information communication technology

Paper 2 - Curriculum development

- learning management

-classroom management

Paper 3 - academic assessment and evaluation

-educational research

Paper 4 - psychology for teachers

- professionalship (?) of teachers

Pass is average of 50%

----------------------------

The people who were appointed after 2003 will all have to do the thai language, culture and ethics course.

The structure of this is:

3.1 Thai language and culture area - 14 periods

1) thai society

2)thai language and culture

3)thai etiquette

4)thai arts and music

3.2 Professional ethics area - 6 periods

Total : 20 periods

Evaluation criteria: pass or not pass.

and furthermore:

here's the course outline for the thai language, culchhhuurrr and professional ethics programme.

***please grit your teeth***

4.1 thai society (4 periods)

thai society in the past and present

structure of thai society

thais' way of life

thai politics and government

environment

thai local wisdom

4.2 thai language and culture (6 periods)

thai language in everyday life

thais' beliefs, norm and personality characteristics

thai costumes, food and traditional games

thais' behave in accordance with buddhism

4.3 thais etiquette (2 periods)

the practice of thai physical disposition etiquette (?????)

formal and informal saluting,sitting,standing,standing up wai

gestures paying homage to the 3 gems, buddhist places and objects of worship

objects of worship

gestures with the seniority

approching and presenting objects to and receiving objects from the seniority

4.4 thai music and arts (2 periods)

local arts in the regions

value of the beauty and uniqueness of local arts

features and identity of thai music instruments

thai traditional dances, thai literature and sports

4.5 professional ethics (6 periods)

professional standards and ethics

important provisions of teachers ciouncil nad educational personnel act b.e. 2546

the importance of professional ethics

behaviour according to one's ethcis

ethics towards those recieving service, those in the same profession and towards the society

As far as I can tell, this is the bulk of hard information out there right now. Any other tidbits or interpretation would be most welcome. This is affecting most schools which employ foreigners legally, including mine.

Has anyone been through the whole "process" yet, and either rejected or stamped "approved" and given a gold star to wear in his/her navel?

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to Ijustwannateach (You shameless man!).

The problem here is that nobody is the same; we're each unique. Even if the exact same bureaucrat interprets 198 candidates for this teacher's license, and is consistent and gets a good night sleep each time, he'll be confused. Cecil will have a degree from England that's written in English, but isn't a degree in English, and Hermione will have been to some unknown uni in northern Wales or Ireland that counts semesters/quarters/credits in Gaelic, and Homer from Muskogee, Oklahoma will have credits from "Sock-jock" (South Oklahoma City junior College; I really earned credits there!). How do you evaluate 126 different kinds of acadmic transcripts on 1903 different subjects like SOC OF EDUC 303b?

Let the games begin...

[Robski]

The educational qualifications bit means a B.Ed or PGCE equivilant as far as i can tell. If you don't have this then you will have to do a course (which has not been set) and sit an exam consisting of 4 papers:

Paper 1 - language and technology for teachers

- educational innovation and information communication technology

Paper 2 - Curriculum development

- learning management

-classroom management

Paper 3 - academic assessment and evaluation

-educational research

Paper 4 - psychology for teachers

- professionalship (?) of teachers

Pass is average of 50%

----------------------------

Very interesting if these test are for those who do not is have a degree, as it seems to be worded.

I await further news on this point .

[Loaded]

Many Thai school associations are protesting strongly against this. I believe it will be shelved. It's unworkable for a number of reasons already stated on other threads.

Thai schools won't be able to survive with the new proposed regulations. They will scupper the proposals.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm just waiting for the explanation of how my ability to point out important features of Thai musical instruments adds to my ability to teach, say, math.