Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[aidenai]

Thanks for writing your experience.

[pokoal2000]

HI

I have been teaching at same school for 4 years now, and today they informed me that Education Office can’t approve my application for a visa extension, because I don’t have a teacher’s license. I have a blue book which say Teachers license on the front, but apparently that is not a proper teachers licence.Nobody can explain to me, what I really need. School is at lost, no idea what they want. They started talking about some sort of test that I have to take in Bangkok? Any idea what that is about?

[Scott]

What you may have is a waiver of the Teacher's License. The waiver would probably have been granted 4 years ago and would have been good for 2 years. You would have then gotten another waiver. Now, they want you to meet the requirements, which in your case would require taking the tests. At least they want you to show some effort toward compliance.

I am guessing at your situation and other posters may have better information. Most of the 'unqualified' teachers who have a TL, got theirs before 2003 and have been grandfathered through.

[aidenai]

HI

I have been teaching at same school for 4 years now, and today they informed me that Education Office can't approve my application for a visa extension, because I don't have a teacher's license. I have a blue book which say Teachers license on the front, but apparently that is not a proper teachers licence.Nobody can explain to me, what I really need. School is at lost, no idea what they want. They started talking about some sort of test that I have to take in Bangkok? Any idea what that is about?

Do you mean with Education Office, the Educational Service Service Area Office? If so, that's bad news.

Have a look at the website of The Teachers' Council of Thailand. All information is there. i.e. teacher license requirements, the professional knowledge tests, et cetera.

http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/

Edited September 24, 2010 by aidenai

[jcartermad]

Actually they do: During the Wai Kru Day ceremony at my school they told us how to line up:

1. Second Generation American of British ancestry.

2. Englishman.

3. First Generation American of non-European ancestry.

4. 2 Filipinos

5. 6 Chinese teachers.

Surely as we are talking English teachers here then it makes sense to push the English guys to the front and have the Americans behind them. Only joking. Standing in farang rank is racist and stupid to the extreme. My question is why are the Chinese at the back? We have 5 great chinese teachers, all female and i would love to stand behind them and admire the veiw...so to speak!

[Scott]

This is a pinned thread about Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing and The Teacher's Council of Thailand. Discussion needs to be limited to these topics.

General discussions need to take place in the regular threads.

[jackbox]

Thai law doesn't mandate a Bachelor's degree. The degree is requested/required by some schools and some immigration offices won't authorize the non-B and sometimes the Ministry of Labor will not grant a Work Permit. A degree makes the whole process easier and seldom is there a hitch. A non-degreed person has fewer options. Just make sure they will get you a Work Permit.

Not correct. The Teachers and Educational personnel council ACT B.E.2546 requires a Bachelor's Degree to get the Professional Teacher's License (PTL). Persons without degrees can still have their employer get them a waiver of the teacher's license from the M.O.E., but those will be getting harder to get as time goes on. If you have a degree your employer should help you apply for a two year temporary teacher's license. You can renew it for another two year term when it expires providing you can prove you are working towards meeting the requirements to obtain the PTL (i.e., take a GradEd course or take the four licensing exams).

Edited October 15, 2010 by jackbox

[jackbox]

Those questions that I was able to understand were either quite simply bizarre or virtually impossible to know the answer to!

EG:

Which student has a 'special needs':

a: John has a withered arm and leg

b: Amy is a dwarf

c: Susan is insane

d: Jamie has short attention

e: Joe is intelligent and often works harder than his colleagues

Impossible questions are like: what is the average pixel size of a typical website page? In which chapter of the national education act of BE 2442 is information technology written about? In the Ayuthaya period, where did children generally learn?

It was hilarious!

The actual question was more like:

Which of these students is not a special needs student needing special attention of their teachers.

a. An economically disadvantaged student.

b. A student with a special ability.

c. A student with a physical handicap.

d. A student with a mental handicap.

e. A student with a drug addiction problem.

The answer is e. The other students are specifically listed as special needs students in the National Education Act of B.E. 2542, Chapter 2, Subsection 10.

The answers to the other questions you list are:

What is the average pixel size of a typical website page?

The answer is 75 dpi.

Which chapter of the National Education Act of B.E. 2442 is information technology written about?

The answer is Chapter 9.

In the Ayuthaya period, where did children generally learn?

The answer is in the Temples.

It is actually not that ridiculous and if you take the time to study the tests are passable.

[BruceMangosteen]

It is actually not that ridiculous and if you take the time to study the tests are passable.

That may be true. We spend our nights and weekend preparing for these exams, and for the sake of discussion, pass them. Then the question becomes "what do you get for your efforts?".

Higher wages?...no

Respect from the Thai's?...no

Prestige?....no

I guess you can stay in Thailand and teach. But many seem to accomplish that despite being drunkards etc..

The serious question remains why jump through these hoops if there is no reward beyond being able to stay at the same school, assuming of course they "like you" at the particular school.

[jackbox]

It is actually not that ridiculous and if you take the time to study the tests are passable.

That may be true. We spend our nights and weekend preparing for these exams, and for the sake of discussion, pass them. Then the question becomes "what do you get for your efforts?".

Higher wages?...no

Respect from the Thai's?...no

Prestige?....no

I guess you can stay in Thailand and teach. But many seem to accomplish that despite being drunkards etc..

The serious question remains why jump through these hoops if there is no reward beyond being able to stay at the same school, assuming of course they "like you" at the particular school.

After passing the tests you will be eligible for a Professional Teacher's License from the TCT. This is the same license the Thai teachers need. Essentially, you become a credentialed, professional teacher in Thailand. This does include respect and prestige. And yes, it can mean higher income. Many International school are now accepting the TCT License as a credential and you may now be eligible for employment with a much higher wage. Your school makes you get it because the law requires it. But since few foreigners have earned the license, it does give you the ability to earn a higher wage.

[aidenai]

Thai law doesn't mandate a Bachelor's degree. The degree is requested/required by some schools and some immigration offices won't authorize the non-B and sometimes the Ministry of Labor will not grant a Work Permit. A degree makes the whole process easier and seldom is there a hitch. A non-degreed person has fewer options. Just make sure they will get you a Work Permit.

Not correct. The Teachers and Educational personnel council ACT B.E.2546 requires a Bachelor's Degree to get the Professional Teacher's License (PTL). Persons without degrees can still have their employer get them a waiver of the teacher's license from the M.O.E., but those will be getting harder to get as time goes on. If you have a degree your employer should help you apply for a two year temporary teacher's license. You can renew it for another two year term when it expires providing you can prove you are working towards meeting the requirements to obtain the PTL (i.e., take a GradEd course or take the four licensing exams).

I think what Scott wrote is correct.

First of all, the TCT Teacher License only applies to OBEC schools. That is, government primary and secondary schools and private schools that comply with the OBEC rules.

Secondly, nowhere in the Labour Acts is stated that one should have a degree to be a teacher.

[BruceMangosteen]

Many International school are now accepting the TCT License as a credential and you may now be eligible for employment with a much higher wage.

I seriously doubt this. The few I know who teach in international schools have education credentials from the "west". Often Masters. They make real money, western wages. The "local" hires are paid less than I am having nothing, nada, except a native tounge.

Why are you suggesting a foreigner who gets a TCT License will earn more money? Do you have actual experiences or know it first or even second hand? I'm not asking for specific school names, just wondering if you actually know this to be true or if it is rumor and expectations.

[jackbox]

I think what Scott wrote is correct.

First of all, the TCT Teacher License only applies to OBEC schools. That is, government primary and secondary schools and private schools that comply with the OBEC rules.

Secondly, nowhere in the Labour Acts is stated that one should have a degree to be a teacher.

The applicable law is not the Labor code. It is the National Education Act of B.E. 2542 and the Teachers and Educator Professionals Act of BE 2546. The first law required the second law be passed, and the second law does require a Bachelor's degree to be granted the Professional Teacher's License, unless you were teaching in Thailand before the law went into effect in 2003 and you were grandfathered in under the new law and had six months to apply for the license under the grandfather clause.

Also, the law applies to all schools, not just the schools you mentioned. These are not rules, these are codified laws passed by the Parliament and approved by the King.

I seriously doubt this. The few I know who teach in international schools have education credentials from the "west". Often Masters. They make real money, western wages. The "local" hires are paid less than I am having nothing, nada, except a native tounge.

Why are you suggesting a foreigner who gets a TCT License will earn more money? Do you have actual experiences or know it first or even second hand? I'm not asking for specific school names, just wondering if you actually know this to be true or if it is rumor and expectations.

Most International schools require a teaching credential, and yes, this is normally from the West. Just having a Master's degree doesn't meet this requirement. I have a Master's degree from the University of California, but I don't have a teaching credential. I have spoken with administrators at some International schools and have seen ads that state you must possess a valid teaching credential or be a holder of the Thai Professional Teacher's License (PTL), as the PTL is basically a Thai credential. Mind you, this does not apply to all schools, but many will accept the PTL in lieu of a Western credential.

Edited October 16, 2010 by jackbox

[jackbox]

Also, the law applies to all schools, not just the schools you mentioned. These are not rules, these are codified laws passed by the Parliament and approved by the King.

Incorrect. Here's Part 5 of the TEACHERS AND EDUCATIONAL PERSONNEL ACT B.E. 2546 (2003)

PART 5

PRACTICE OF LICENSED PROFESSION

Section 43

The Profession of Teachers, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators shall be a licensed Profession under this Act. Other licensed Professions shall be as stipulated in ministerial regulations.

No one shall practice a licensed Profession without a License under this Act, except in any of the following cases:

(1) Those occasionally providing knowledge to learners in any Educational Institution as guest educational lecturers;

(2) Those whose primary Profession does not relate to the teaching and learning process, but has the occasional duty to teach;

(3) Students, trainees or those with a practical training license apprenticing or training under the supervision of Professional Educators, subject to the criteria, procedures and conditions set forth by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board;

(4) Those arbitrarily offering educational courses;

(5) Those teaching in any learning center under the law governing national education or learning establishments arbitrarily operated by nonformal educational agencies, individuals, families, communities, community organizations, local administrative organizations, private organizations, Professional organizations, religious institutions, business establishments, hospitals, medical institutions, charitable shelters and other social institutions;

(6) Public and private instructors, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators at the higher education level;

(7) Education Administrators of a level higher than educational districts;

(8) Other persons as designated by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board.

That does not exempt International Schools. The exemptions are basically for casual and arbitrary instruction, which an International school is certainly not. The law applies to all less than University Degree granting institutions providing primary and secondary education.

Edited October 16, 2010 by jackbox

[aidenai]

That does not exempt International Schools. The exemptions are basically for casual and arbitrary instruction, which an International school is certainly not. The law applies to all less than University Degree granting institutions providing primary and secondary education.

International Schools do not comply with the Thai National Education Act or its derivations. If they would, they wouldn't be International Schools.

[jackbox]

International Schools do not comply with the Thai National Education Act or its derivations. If they would, they wouldn't be International Schools.

The act defines a "teacher" as "such persons whose primary Profession relates to the teaching and learning process, and promotion of learning among learners through various methods in public and private Educational Institutions at early child, basic and higher education levels below a degree level." An International school is a private Educational Institution below a degree level. The International aspect has to do with the curriculum they follow, which still has to be approved by the Ministry of Education. The teachers at these schools are not exempt from the licensing provisions of the law. Nothing in the exclusions list can be construed as referring to teachers at an International School.

Edited October 16, 2010 by jackbox

[aidenai]

An International school is a private Educational Institution below a degree level. The International aspect has to do with the curriculum they follow, which still has to be approved by the Ministry of Education. The teachers at these schools are not exempt from the licensing provisions of the law. Nothing in the exclusions list can be construed as referring to teachers at an International School.

Let's agree that we don't agree on this one.

I hope that some other members can shed some light on this topic.

[Scott]

Further we will not further discuss whether or not you MUST have a degree to teach. It is not in the law and unless someone can cite a law--which is different from a regulation of a particular department--let's drop that part of the discussion.

It is difficult in many areas to get a job without a degree. Some schools require a degree. Some immigration officers will not issue an extension of stay without the degree (why, I don't know). So there are hurdles and it is getting harder.

[jackbox]

Further we will not further discuss whether or not you MUST have a degree to teach. It is not in the law and unless someone can cite a law--which is different from a regulation of a particular department--let's drop that part of the discussion.

It is difficult in many areas to get a job without a degree. Some schools require a degree. Some immigration officers will not issue an extension of stay without the degree (why, I don't know). So there are hurdles and it is getting harder.

But it is in the law. In Chapter 5, Section 44 of the Teachers and Educator Professionals Act of B.E. 2546 (2003) it states the following:

Section 44 Applicants for Licenses to practice a licensed Profession shall possess the qualifications and have no prohibited characteristics s follows:

(a) Qualifications

(1) Having an age of fully twenty years or older;

(2) Having an education degree or equivalent or other educational qualification accredited by the Teachers Council of Thailand;

(3) Having completed a practical training in an Educational Institution in accordance with an educational curriculum of not less than one year and having passed the practical training requirements in accordance with the criteria, procedures and conditions as set out by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board;

Not only does number 2 states one must have an education degree or other qualifications per the TCT, in Chapter 2, Section 84 of the same law it states "The criteria and procedures for issuance of Licenses to practice the Profession of Teachers shall be in accordance with the regulations of the Teachers Council of Thailand." So basically any regulations of the TCT, one approved by the MOE, have the full effect of the law. So if the TCT regulations require a person to have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree to be licensed, this is backed up by the applicable law. If one wants to work without a degree then they can get a waiver from the M.O.E., but they can never be licensed by the TCT under current Thai law and regulations.

Edited October 16, 2010 by jackbox

[Scott]

This will be my final reminder on the subject of degrees. Please check the forum rules, in particular the rules for this forum. More specifically, this:

8. Topics on the question of degrees/no degrees for teaching English or other subjects are currently restricted as they have been over-discussed and Thai government policy is not currently clear.

Not everyone who is teaching falls under the act you specify. Schools are under different jurisdictions and agencies. For example, a person teaching at a University does not need a Teacher's License. Language schools fall under a different entity as well.

The particular law you refer to does not apply to everyone teaching in Thailand. This forum is for a wide variety of teachers, not just those covered by the act, which, by the way, is not being universally enforced.

[Scott]

One of our posters, Aidenai, has been kind enough to give the dates of the next test in January, 2011. The topic is here:

Those wishing to register need to do so rather quickly, between Nov. 11 to 22 for the tests to be given January 21 and 22.

Again, thanks for the information.

[Scott]

From poster Aidenai:

As of today you can sign-up for the 7th TCT Professional Knowledge Tests.

Thai teachers: http://testth.ksp.or.th/

Foreign teachers: http://testeng.ksp.or.th/index.php

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Hi there,

I recently received a 'certificate' from the TCT informing me that I had passed parts 1 and 8 of the 8 tests (2 parts per exam, 4 exams in total) (taken back in September 10 in Chiang Mai).

My colleague, who also took the same tests at the same time and got the same pass/fail result as I, recently had to get his Non Immigrant B visa renewed (back in mid-Oct). He took his 'certificate' and other docs proving he had sat these tests to the immigration office in CM. His visa was renewed with no request to see any documentation regarding these tests.

I was thinking of registering for the other tests in Feb, but given the fact that my visa could get renewed without the additional 2000 THB test fees + travel expenses etc.... I think I'll give them a pass.

Cheers

James

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Those questions that I was able to understand were either quite simply bizarre or virtually impossible to know the answer to!

EG:

Which student has a 'special needs':

a: John has a withered arm and leg

b: Amy is a dwarf

c: Susan is insane

d: Jamie has short attention

e: Joe is intelligent and often works harder than his colleagues

Impossible questions are like: what is the average pixel size of a typical website page? In which chapter of the national education act of BE 2442 is information technology written about? In the Ayuthaya period, where did children generally learn?

It was hilarious!

The actual question was more like:

Which of these students is not a special needs student needing special attention of their teachers.

a. An economically disadvantaged student.

b. A student with a special ability.

c. A student with a physical handicap.

d. A student with a mental handicap.

e. A student with a drug addiction problem.

The answer is e. The other students are specifically listed as special needs students in the National Education Act of B.E. 2542, Chapter 2, Subsection 10.

The answers to the other questions you list are:

What is the average pixel size of a typical website page?

The answer is 75 dpi.

Which chapter of the National Education Act of B.E. 2442 is information technology written about?

The answer is Chapter 9.

In the Ayuthaya period, where did children generally learn?

The answer is in the Temples.

It is actually not that ridiculous and if you take the time to study the tests are passable.

To Jackbox,

it is clear that you haven't had a hand in writing the tests as you can quite clearly write grammatically coherent questions :-) (maybe you should offer your services?)

I'm sorry to say that the actual question did contain the option "insane", "dwarf" and "withered arm".

Finally, if we were given any pointers/tips/research aides which we could use to could study for these tests, most teachers would gladly do so - any information on the availability of such resources should be shared on this forum!

[aidenai]

Finally, if we were given any pointers/tips/research aides which we could use to could study for these tests, most teachers would gladly do so - any information on the availability of such resources should be shared on this forum!

Here's the book list compiled by a test taker who has passed all 4 sections.

Curriculum Development

Wiles, Jon and Bondi, Joseph (1989), Curriculum Development: A Guide to Practice Third Edition, New York: MacMillan

Instructional Method / Learning Management

Burden, Paul R. and Byrd David M. (1999) Methods for Effective Teaching Boston: Allyn and Bacon

Kameenui, Edward J.; Designing Instructional Strategies. Columbus; Merrill Publishing Co.

Educational Psychology

Lefrancois, Guy R. (1999) Psychology for Teaching Stanford, CT; Wadsworth

Slavin, Robert E. (2003) Educational Psychology Seventh Edition. Boston: Allyn and Bacon

Classroom Management

Owens, Robet G. (1991) Organisational Behaviour in Education Seventh Edition. Boston: Allyn and Bacon

Educational Technology

Heinich, Robert (1993) Instructional Media and the New Technologies of Instruction

Educational Evaluation

Worthen, Blaine R. (1998) Educational Evaluation Sixth Edition

Howell, Kenneth W. (1987) Curriculum-Based Evaluation for Special and Remedial Education Boston: Merrill Publishing

Educational Research

Best, John W. (2003) Research in Education Ninth Edition, Boston: Pearson Education

Teachership

Parkay, Forrest W. (1992) Becoming a Teacher.Boston: Allyn and Bacon.

Moreover, an institute called the Siam Knowledge Transfer Center has compiled a 194 pages Review Handbook with reading material to sit the TCT Tests. Google around for more information.

[Scott]

Thanks. That is very helpful.

[BruceMangosteen]

My colleague, who also took the same tests at the same time and got the same pass/fail result as I, recently had to get his Non Immigrant B visa renewed (back in mid-Oct). He took his 'certificate' and other docs proving he had sat these tests to the immigration office in CM. His visa was renewed with no request to see any documentation regarding these tests.

I was thinking of registering for the other tests in Feb, but given the fact that my visa could get renewed without the additional 2000 THB test fees + travel expenses etc.... I think I'll give them a pass.

I don't think you have to prove to immigration you took, signed up for, and/or passed these tests. That proof or some part thereof, according to posts and sources, has to be sent to the M.of Ed. and they decide to issue or not issue an additional waiver letter which authorizes you to continue teaching in Thailand without a liscense, maybe at just the school which sponsored or sent the request(this unclear). Perhaps your colleague had this letter and didn't know? Or perhaps the officer didn't care....

I think the next tests are in January, not Feb and you need to sign up by tomorrow or Monday.

Cheers. There will always be plenty of non native speakers with Education degrees to fill your spot if you are refused. The future is written on the wall, take notice and govern yourself accordingly.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Thanks Aidenai, that is a real help, I shall fwd on those websites.

To Bruce, well, if I am no longer able to get a teaching job in LOS that pays less than 1/10 of what I have previously earnt outside of Thailand, then I guess I would have to suck it up and leave this place... though I dread the thought of who would fill my shoes ;-)

Once more, I go back to the fact that when I took those test in September, there were less then 10 people present - does this mean that only a small number of us have fallen for the money making scam or that there will be a shed load of teaching positions open in the near future????

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Thanks Aidenai, that is a real help, I shall fwd on those websites.

To Bruce, well, if I am no longer able to get a teaching job in LOS that pays less than 1/10 of what I have previously earnt outside of Thailand, then I guess I would have to suck it up and leave this place... though I dread the thought of who would fill my shoes ;-)

Once more, I go back to the fact that when I took those test in September, there were less then 10 people present - does this mean that only a small number of us have fallen for the money making scam or that there will be a shed load of teaching positions open in the near future????

[aidenai]

Thanks Aidenai, that is a real help, I shall fwd on those websites.

You're welcome.

Once more, I go back to the fact that when I took those test in September, there were less then 10 people present - does this mean that only a small number of us have fallen for the money making scam or that there will be a shed load of teaching positions open in the near future????

That must be Chiang Mai.

In Bangkok there were about 60 test takers.