Forum Psychology: The Fine Art of Detecting Liars and Interpreting Insults

[Fabricus]

This is a thread I gave to Minnie The Minx. I encouraged him to start it, but he appears to have gone AWOL. I'll kick if off myself.

Lies

If you and I were to sit face to face in a pub you'd probably notice one or two strange mannerisms. You might be puzzled, for example, by the way I nervously scratch my left hand when explaining that you can't see my Maserati today because it's being serviced. Perhaps you'd pick up on how I fiddle with my index finger when pointing out that unfortunately I have no photos of my penthouse in Monte Carlo. And I'm sure you'd ponder this strange tendency of mine to blink repeatedly when I discuss my private Rothschilds account in Zurich.

While it's usually quite easy to detect liars in the real world, it's often much harder online. But It can be done, and generally only requires a basic understanding of easily-explained psychology. Note that policemen and lawyers are trained in these techniques.

Insults

Have you ever been insulted on this or any other online forum. If so, what did the other guy say about you? And did you stop to consider the meaning of his insult?

The psychology here is quite interesting: people will generally insult you using words and phrases which convey their own fears, sensitivities or insecurities. Learning to "read" other people's insults is quite revealing.

===

Questions:

1. Have you ever "outed" a liar online? How did the guy give himself away?

2. What insults have been leveled at you? And what do you think they said about the guy making them?

[lovelomsak]

Online does it matter,about insults. It just easily forgotten donot have to see the person so forget it and move on.Replies or responses get lost online because of to much typing to make it worth responding to them.

Liars no use calling them on it,they will just keep lieing so serves no purpose. Liars are not worth the time of day. They are just a waste of time you give to them. So do not give them your time.

What I do is just dismiss liars and insulting people,who needs them. They have nothing to offer.And usually end up a problem.

[sipi]

I have met complete strangers online who want to argue with everything including my age. I am sure I know how old I am.

[sipi]

Here is an interesting thought OP.

I did my Thermal Engineering degree in a boiler house. True, at a power station.

[Minnie the Minx]

Fab my friend, you asked me to do this topic, apologies, have been detained with some business.

I had a few conversations with friends about this, had a laugh at some great takes on the topis as I said, everybody lies, the only variable is what about? Disclaimer: All characters are fictitious and any reference to any person living or dead is unintentional.

Ahhh, you see, you have to understand that the habitual liar is wired differently from the rest of us. They process facts in a different way, and in many ways, that comes out in variations of narcisstic personality disorders. Underlying the lying personality you'll find there is, ( among other things ).

1. Insecure little man syndrome - like the guy I know who knows he's in the habit of making stupid decisions. He allows a fury of uncontrollable self-righteousness build up, and then it explodes in a combination of teachers petness/social incompetence. Once he has blown his load, and has woken up to the reality of the what he has done, he has only two outs. Lying and obsfucation - which he does on a regular basis - or, Burnt Bridges Syndrome. There are many people who go through life suffering from that syndrome. They can't stand the loss of face that their bursts of indignant certitude bring, so they then disappear and start a new life. What you then find is, all the people they have left behind are <deleted> and nutters, cos they have to be for Insecure Little Man to sleep at night. You see, Insecure Little Man knows deep in his heart that he is the tosser and nutter, but he fears that gnawing thought rising - so everyone else gets the blame. Here's an example - real life, in Chiang Mai.

Retired school teacher who drank in the hotel bar decided that the hotel bar was too nosiy on the nights he wasn't in, so demanded that it close at 10.00 p.m. Not content to demand that it closed, he also slated many of the regulars who drank in the bar, demanding that some who were not residents to be banned. he made some wild accusations against others that I won't repeat here. The next night, hotel management found him sitting drunk in the bar at 11.30 p.m. with the guys that he slated. Unfortunately for our retired teacher, the hotel management made a point of pulling him up in front of all the others ( unusual in Thailand ) and also let it be known on the quiet what the guy had said about the regulars.

Burnt bridge time - off he went railing against the <deleted> ( or onanists as he calls them ) that form the vibrant community that he is no longer welcome in. The man is an object of ridicule - but he has to justify his actions by observing it was all the fault of the other fifty people.

2. Wet Brain Syndrome - horrible, nasty syndrome that it is. Alcoholics and recovering alcoholics who are consumed by deep hatred. And I'll point out, these types are in the minority, most alcoholics can reconcile their own problems without reducing themselves to this. If you've ever seen full blown alcoholism at its worst, you start to see things like my pal vomiting blood every morning, then lining his stomach with cider because "its only apple juice." Every day starts in a haze of blood and drink, and worse. Two things which are worse are, guilt. The guilt of the stupidity of the night before. One of the clearest warnings of alcoholism is doing things with a drink in you that you would never do sober. So, the guy that tells the lengthy lie about some absurd situation - or sexually harasses the bar maid, or plays the part of Johnny Big Cigar - King For A Day - these guys wake up in the morning with a sense of deep dread as they run through the night before trying to recollect what deeply embarrassing thing they've done now. And that sense of deep dread stays with them until they obliterate it with more drink and so the cycle continues.

However, what most alcoholics omit to tell you is that they turn into swamp rats and worse when they're drunk. Night after night their long suffering wife wakes up in a bed drenched in urine yet again, and if she's damned unlucky, he'll have blown out the contents of his bowel too. I jest you not - its far more common than many people ever know, with the only high-profile person to ever admit to it being Robin Williams. Go sit at AA meetings and you'll hear the truth. Ah, but here's the problem - at the same meeting you'll find people who as I said have reconciled the reality of their lives and go through the literal step by step, day by day attitude required to progress. Next to them, you'll have other recovering alcoholics whose thought processes have been seriously corrupted, and whose inner demons insist on finding a way out. That nutter on the other side that we all pity is that guy.

No one in their right mind would harp on about the same fundamental subject as much as he does, and for as long ( Persian ex-model blah blah ). You might say it once or twice - not over and over again under various nicknames over the course of at least six years. And to keep going back to the fact that you are a cuckold time after time is another indicator that you:

a) can't get over it

are racked with guilt because you turned your wife into a swamp rat. No wonder she went for the older guy - you'll find it was the ability to wake up in a dry bed that attracted her.

These types of alcoholic liars are deeply evil and they don't even realize it. Everything they do is controlled by the demon within, the same demon that threw them under the alkie bus in the first place. These guys will go for entire lifetimes blaming everyone else - and they'll go on deep, filth, personal attacks because:

c) Thats how depraved their lives are, they know depravity as they live with it daily, and,

d) Their corruped thought processes convince them that absolute falsehoods are true. They get an idea in their head and can't let it go. And then they run with the lie convinced that its true - and some people believe them, so the lie grows wings and away it goes. Wet Brain Syndrome liars - deeply evil, demon-driven, depraved liars.

3. The Ego Liar - oooooh many of them abound. Each and every ( sane ) person on this planet forms some degree of ego, its a necessary part of life. Hey, it may sound like a contradiction, but the decision to live in a humble fashion is also ego driven. Its the view you want the world to see of you. Now, the ego-driven liar comes in two forms, the first so well known its hardly worth mentioneing.

a) The Fantasist - ex-SAS/gangster blah blah. Me? I was a territorial. I read that XXXX was a regular for years and that he was based in Hong Kong with a degree of envy and admiration. If I had my time again, I would have joined the forces full-time. I know I would have never made it into the SAS, ever. As a teeager I was fit enough, but tempermentally unsuited - in fact I'm still to this day tempermentally unsuited for the SAS, and you know what? I'm fine with that. Unlike those other weirdos, and like 99% of the sane planet, have no need to create a fantasy existence.

Gangster? you can spot a gangster a mile off in a bar - he's the guy with his back to the wall, or sitting in the deepest corner watching everything. And hey, that applies to Thailand too - its so much part of their lives they never lose it. So, if you see a guy standing at a bar pontificating about being a gangster - he's a liar. A real gangster would never show you his back. Never.

Ahh, but its the other ego division that are more common. They present themselves in a certain way - most aften as good guys, great guys, funs guys for example - and they'll make a point of telling you what kind of guy they think they are time and time and time again. Think about it - I know you have met this ego liar.

"Look, XXXX, you can tell me anything, I'll never give away a secret," - says the guy with an unnerving desire to collect other peoples secrets.

"I never lie," - says the guy who lies as soon as he says that. You get the idea - these people are always fast to tell you what part of their ego drives them. So, just supposin' the guy that never lies gets caught lying? Well, he ain't ever going to get over that.

Tom - "I lost a pal due to the Scottish referendum."

Dick - "can't have been much of a pal if he fell out with you over that."

Tom - "yeh, well, its his loss, I'm a great guy, a fun guy, and I never lie."

Harry - "<deleted>, you lying bastard - you didn't lose me, it was you that clicked the cowardly unfriend button on facebook. And now you are here playing the part of the victim?"

Result? Tom goes wild because he has been caught lying in public. He has to now create a brand new narrative, and in the worst case scenarios, delves into deep obsessions. The fact that it is true that he unclicked the facebook friends button, and did lie in public is to be forgotten - his ego demands revenge, even if that revenge results in his ridicule. Which it did.

4. The Thick/The Mentally Ill - man, I have seen dozens of examples of these, so briefly.

My uncle approached my Dad and told him that his mother-in-law had died, and could my Dad lend him $100? ( 1976 money ) - my Dad gave him the money the went to see his sister in law to pay his condolences. The Mother-in-Law answered the door.

Falklands War - seventeen-year-old that I knew declared that he had been called up to the SAS to fight in the Falklands. He went out and bought the whole caboodle from the army surplus store, then left home to join up to much fanfare. We found him hiding in the local forest starving four days later. Turns out, his cunning plan was to wait until the war was over then return to a heros welcome.

The guy I know in Chiang Mai that met a middle class girl on a dating site, and fell for the whole chaperone, no-sex before marriage caboodle. Within weeks he had bought her a condo in her name so that he could "show her mum he could look after her." She moved in, he went to visit her, she opened the door and told him to eff off.

That's a true story that got even worse but we'll leave it there. The real damaging part to that story is that the guy lied to himself all the way through it. And when things got worse, it was also based upon him being prepared to lie to himself. To lie to to yourself is the worst kind of lie.

Or is it? hmmm, I go by the precept of clear conscience - as long as my conscience is clear, I'm good to go. So, here I sat with friends in my hotel, where they informed me that I had bought my ex-girlfriend ( a girl they had all known for years ) a car, and three brand new motorbikes. Man, I was astonished, I had heard the car story before - I'd never heard the three brand new motorbikes story. Oh, and that I had also taken her to Bali on holiday. So I took out my phone, opened her number, put it on dial, and offered it to the main mouth.

"Call her and tell her that," I said. Ohhhh, face dropped, shoulders dropped, full-body sag going on. So I offered the phone to the two other guys, "you call her." Eyes dropped.

"You realize that not only does she know about the car lie, but that her husband knows about it too and it caused a serious problem last year."

"She has a husband?"

"Yes, she married a Thai guy last year. And he wanted to know why they were paying 8,000 baht a month for a car that the farang bought."

"How did he find out?"

"Because she worked here, and every Thai that works in the place knows her and speaks to her all the time, and they told her what was being said, and for some reason, he found out. Go ahead, speak to her on the phone, ask her." Faces dropped even more.

"To you, its only idle chat - to her, its a serious marital problem. When you don't know what you are talking about, don't effin talk." Silence.

................................................................................


"Ahhh, but you did take her to Bali on holiday!!!!"

"<deleted>, what's wrong with you? of course I did. She's as hot as hell, and I had the pleasure of her in Bali. Man, she looked amazing running through the waves in a bikini, and stunning in her evening dresses. What red-blooded male wouldn't love to take her to Bali on holiday?"

"Fair point."

................................................................................

That lie about the car and motorbikes above is just stupid talk - people making up wee stories, spreading them, then convincing themselves that they are true. Then being sickened when confronted not only with the truth, but the embarrassment of being offered the phone to ask the horses mouth. Stupid talk, stupid talk.

But think of the consequences - luckily the Thai guarantor of the loan stepped in and explained to the new Thai husband how it came to be that my ex bought the car. Luckily he didn't go for the first reaction of many Thai husbands of kicking her head in first then asking questions later.

Lies - a necessary part of life. A good way of allaying someone's fears - but in the hands of the nutters above, they have a great capacity to damage.

[Minnie the Minx]

Memorable mentions: I'll add 6) The stark raving bonkers liar....that person who convinces themselves that you have in some way offended them and goes on regular Oscar worthy rants after consuming copious amounts of Smirnoff on an internet forum. Those types are mentally ill so don't really qualify as liars per se, but the amount of rubbish they make up is astounding.

[Cpkt8]

I usually ignore harsh comments/insults. Not worth to make my blood boils. Life is too short to be unhappy.

[SoiBiker]

Easy to make stuff up on the internet. Next to impossible to verify anything. Pretty pointless to worry about it either way. Just judge people on whether what they say is interesting enough to warrant a response.

[CharlieH]

I have posted this once previously, and this will be the last time.

If you have "issues" with other members, dont bring them here, stop the pathetic attempts at "veiled stories" or concocted themes, where the sole purpose is antagonising other people and trying to score points.

Its actually neatly wrapped up in rule 9 - "Trolling", it could also be construed as stalking in some instances.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

So, last warning, holidays will follow, stop it now, or ultimately face removal.

[Minnie the Minx]

Fab stick to the topic. Why do people lie? Or is omitting the truth also classed as a lie?

7) The Peacock...this character lies to big himself up. You come across this type often, he loves to brag about his material possessions, his superior intellect, his conquests and connections. That picture of his MacMansion he posted is not really his, neither is that flash car, he doesn't really have a business he could be a TEFLER earning 30k who knows, but this type of liar does it for his own narcissistic gratification. Whilst everyone else is feeling nauseated, he preens himself in from of the cyber mirror truly convinced of his own charms.

[SoiBiker]

Given the near-impossibility of confirming anything either way, it's interesting how determined some people become about 'outing' liars. I've had people label me a liar or a fantasist on forums about things that were completely true - and not even that remarkable. It's funny to see how convinced they are that they know the truth, even when they're completely wrong. You have to wonder, though, what sort of person you have to be to take an assumption and treat it like a fact.

[Minnie the Minx]

Have you seen that movie 'Liar, Liar'? Funny stuff.

[StreetCowboy]

...

Don't leave us in suspense. Is this a truth or lie?

It's true - Dengue is no laughing matter. I believe that there are multiple variations of the virus, and that it can be caught more than once (possibly different strains) with increasingly distressing results.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

My favourite is "I'm going to go home after this one...". I'm kidding no-one but myself.

[CharlieH]

Off topic, Bickering and responses to same ,removed.

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

[Minnie the Minx]

Insults ( from the OP)

This place is tame compared to others from my observations.

A diverse range of personalities here and dynamics to go with them, but as with anything, people run in packs. Whether it is patting someone on the back or giving someone a put down people tend to stick together. This is also known as the 'gang bang'. Ganging up on a poster and attacking from different sides. There is a topic on here where a poster is being dissed but said poster laughs at the clowns involved and refuses to engage in such pathetic attempts to 'get a rise'. Nothing annoys these type of attention w***s more than, well, not getting attention.

To answer the OP, when swimming with sharks best not to bleed, throw cold water or give them a <deleted> yu, generally starving them of oxygen is the better way to deal with pathetic attempts at insults.

So are you a sensitive soul? Does forum fukkery get to you? Here people don't get down and roll in the mud which is nice. Some friction is healthy and adds spice, vanilla is not the only flavour. Let's face it. one of the favourite past times of the overly sensitive is humiliating themselves. Get in a disagreement over some insignificant little thing, blow it all out of proportion, perceive it as a slight and run off to lick imaginary wounds. The playing field is as even as its ever going to get. Some possess rapier wit, others, a brooding angst. At some point in our lives we learn to live with our shortcomings and engage in endeavours where we are more adept.

Perhaps we learn to learn to adapt and bend in the wind, perhaps we learn to accept that tilting at windmills is an exercise in futility, as it holding a pi***g contest with the incontinent, perhaps we even learn to enjoy it. Some learn to use their weaknesses to garner attention and an unfair advantage. These are the 'professional victims'. The ones with sad lives, alcoholism, meds, brain conditions and mental issues making up all sorts of imaginary things for the entertainment of the masses. You can't help but fall for it early on even though these people turn around and try to insult you. Notice the use of the word 'try'.

"Oh that poor thing, life is so sad, go easy on him/her".

These folks may have their own self pity exposed for what it is, then they try to cover it up saying it is 'only make believe'.

People can only insult you if you allow them to, that is. if you let them into your head. Personally bullets bounce off me, it would take more than petty name calling or school yard bullying to annoy. Kindergaten stuff.

Laugh it off, after all it is only a forum. I hope that answers your query Fab.

[wow64]

One thing I cant stand is people talking about themselves in the thrid person... Oh wait you just did that.

Sent from my c64

[Gsxrnz]

Insults ( from the OP)

This place is tame compared to others from my observations.

A diverse range of personalities here and dynamics to go with them, but as with anything, people run in packs. Whether it is patting someone on the back or giving someone a put down people tend to stick together. This is also known as the 'gang bang'. Ganging up on a poster and attacking from different sides. There is a topic on here where a poster is being dissed but said poster laughs at the clowns involved and refuses to engage in such pathetic attempts to 'get a rise'. Nothing annoys these type of attention w***s more than, well, not getting attention.

To answer the OP, when swimming with sharks best not to bleed, throw cold water or give them a <deleted> yu, generally starving them of oxygen is the better way to deal with pathetic attempts at insults.

So are you a sensitive soul? Does forum fukkery get to you? Here people don't get down and roll in the mud which is nice. Some friction is healthy and adds spice, vanilla is not the only flavour. Let's face it. one of the favourite past times of the overly sensitive is humiliating themselves. Get in a disagreement over some insignificant little thing, blow it all out of proportion, perceive it as a slight and run off to lick imaginary wounds. The playing field is as even as its ever going to get. Some possess rapier wit, others, a brooding angst. At some point in our lives we learn to live with our shortcomings and engage in endeavours where we are more adept.

Perhaps we learn to learn to adapt and bend in the wind, perhaps we learn to accept that tilting at windmills is an exercise in futility, as it holding a pi***g contest with the incontinent, perhaps we even learn to enjoy it. Some learn to use their weaknesses to garner attention and an unfair advantage. These are the 'professional victims'. The ones with sad lives, alcoholism, meds, brain conditions and mental issues making up all sorts of imaginary things for the entertainment of the masses. You can't help but fall for it early on even though these people turn around and try to insult you. Notice the use of the word 'try'.

"Oh that poor thing, life is so sad, go easy on him/her".

These folks may have their own self pity exposed for what it is, then they try to cover it up saying it is 'only make believe'.

People can only insult you if you allow them to, that is. if you let them into your head. Personally bullets bounce off me, it would take more than petty name calling or school yard bullying to annoy. Kindergaten stuff.

Laugh it off, after all it is only a forum. I hope that answers your query Fab.

Just my thoughts, after reading TVF for many years, anyone who seems to be "ganged up on" has earned it....One thing ol' Trans cannot deal with is someone posting lies on an open forum.

The guy that did that to me was banned, I traced him to another forum and confronted him with the issue, he denied it, yet many TVF friends read it...

Lets be careful out there, the guy is still lurking... ...

He means when someone uses their name in the third person when talking about themselves - I highlighted it in the quote above.

Personally, I don't use the third person, but my good friend Gsxrnz does.

[sipi]

I use the third person on myself. I know it is hard to believe but my name isn't really Sipi.

[SoiBiker]

One likes to utilise the fourth person from time to time.

[Ghostmanthai]

Mini Don't Forget the internet tough guys. Ones who think insulting and baiting people then trying to give you threats about if they ever saw you. Please post on that or when I see you....... POW

[StreetCowboy]

One likes to utilise the fourth person from time to time.

Four's too many. They end up just talking amongst themselves.