Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[Moonsterk]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

[jayjay78]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

Guess you'll have to keep on wondering

[Moonsterk]

if some posters have business interests on Koh Tao and are so-called shills, wouldn't it be in their interest to have the real killers caught? After all if the real killers get away with it they might strike again and that would surely not be good for business.

Who knows what the strategy is, why would mafia threaten the translators at Samui court? According to the vanished post the reach extends to Samui and Bangkok, not just Koh Tao

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

[Khun Han]

"His last call was on Skype from Koh Tao hours before his death. He described the island as paradise and showed us the view from his balcony using his phone and said he was going snorkelling that day. (Sue Miller).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-35639768

Last call was hours before his death? Estimated time of death was 3-5am. Going snorkelling that day? Could that have been night snorkelling? Maybe the call was after midnight and 'that day' relates to the 'day' of the 15th as opposed to the early hours of the 15th. Sure would be good if that sim card turned up that police said was found on the beach.

Fellow Royal Thai Police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen confirmed Mr Millers phone had been found discarded near the lodgings of the defendants, and that the UKs National Crime Agency had identified the sim card as Mr Millers.

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Fellow Thai police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen also confirmed that Mr Millers phone had been found discarded near the lodgings of the defendants, and that the UKs National Crime Agency had identified the SIM card as belonging to the Islander.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/08/28/thai-murders-trial-confusion-over-cctv-footage/

IMEI stands for International Mobile Equipment Identity number and it is unique for all devices. However, the SIM card is something different, it is not related to your IMEI number and you cannot find your SIM card by using IMEI number. Actually, IMEI number is used to track your phone devices not the SIM card.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-find-a-sim-card-number-using-an-IMEI-number

Am I missing something here or having a grey moment? I thought it was the IMEI number of the phone that had been confirmed as being David's on the phone found behind the B2's lodgings? Now I am reading that the sim card was identified as David's???

Interesting, catsanddogs, interesting. May be another discrepancy. Certainly worth looking into.

[fab99]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

It's easy to criticize others (and your tone is always quite provocative...) but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Should Andy Hall let all the thai companies exploit their slaves in peace ?

He sure is helping a lot of people, and media attention is part of the game, of course he is seaking it...

As for his involvment in the defense, I don't think he should have testified, he played a good part at giving the attention this case deserved, but he should have used experts instead of testifying himself, the judges found his testimony irrelevant and didn't use what he provided.

We all agree the defense didn't do a perfect job, they did what they could with what they were provided with though...

Hope the appeal will be better. I really don't think the B2 will ever be executed.

[Moonsterk]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

Guess you'll have to keep on wondering

I think any competent defense in an appeal should consider keeping Mr Hall out of sight of the court for just that reason. In fact Mr Hall himself might have already considered it, but decided to disregard it.

Seems to me, there are a lot of... well, publicity hounds surrounding this case to the detriment of the defense.

[IslandLover]

Moonsterk, on 25 Feb 2016 - 04:33, said:

jayjay78, on 24 Feb 2016 - 12:30, said:

bannork, on 24 Feb 2016 - 12:13, said:

if some posters have business interests on Koh Tao and are so-called shills, wouldn't it be in their interest to have the real killers caught? After all if the real killers get away with it they might strike again and that would surely not be good for business.

Who knows what the strategy is, why would mafia threaten the translators at Samui court? According to the vanished post the reach extends to Samui and Bangkok, not just Koh Tao

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

Sky News reporter Jonathan Samuels is on record (and video) confirming it. Other British news agencies reported it as well. So, not gossip and not hearsay.

[jayjay78]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

[Moonsterk]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

It's easy to criticize others (and your tone is always quite provocative...) but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Should Andy Hall let all the thai companies exploit their slaves in peace ?

He sure is helping a lot of people, and media attention is part of the game, of course he is seaking it...

As for his involvment in the defense, I don't think he should have testified, he played a good part at giving the attention this case deserved, but he should have used experts instead of testifying himself, the judges found his testimony irrelevant and didn't use what he provided.

We all agree the defense didn't do a perfect job, they did what they could with what they were provided with though...

Hope the appeal will be better. I really don't think the B2 will ever be executed.

If my tone is always quite provocative, it's because you do not like my opinion, perhaps?

but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Is asking such a question is really part of the rules on discourse here? Is it even relevant?

I don't think he should have been seen anywhere near this case. He is on trial for embarrasing the nation, which is pretty much his occupation. We can argue whether it's deserved or not on another thread, regardless I think his presence was not very smart and to continue to allow it in an appeal could be considered malpractice on part of the lead attorney.

[Moonsterk]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Moonsterk

[boomerangutang]

This is a theory like many other theories, is it possible to make it to Bangkok that fast ? Yes I guess so but that would mean a lot of luck on the way ,

Nomsod was not seen on the island , he was not seen at the airport , unless airport officials suddenly decided to hide CCTV images after a call from the influential "mafia" dad. This is all far-out speculations.

Nomsod is shown in the 3 Running Man videos. Nomsod is probably shown in parts of the 59 hours of videos that RTP won't show - and that's not counting the hours of CCTV which Mon refused to hand over to RTP. ....and not counting the CCTV which RTP deemed "too unimportant to even look at" , which may have shown boats leaving the island in the hour after the crime. And there's Maung Maung, a Burmese DJ at AC bar who is said to have claimed to have seen NS in one of the bars that Sunday night. No one is surprises that MM the DJ split to Burma, never to be heard from. Of course, prosecution didn't want the other MM (formerly of the B3) testifying. He also split to Burma, to be incognito. And RTP/prosecution didn't want anything from Sean - who similarly was scooted out of Thailand a.s.a.p. and not heard from again. Those are 3 potential witnesses which Thai authorities (working hand in hand with the Headman's people) don't want to hear a peep from. There are probably others. Even Thai cops admitted that some islanders are too afraid to speak the truth of what they heard/saw.

As for airport: Can we see CCTV of passengers entering or leaving that Monday morning flight to Bkk from Chumpon? Can we see the passenger manifest? Of course not. It's all part of the bungled cover-up which goes all the way up to the self-appointed PM. We, the general public seeking truth & justice will also never see/hear about cell phone histories from that night and the next day. Similarly, we will never see/hear about any money transactions between the Headman's people (including Mon, Headman's wife, NS, NS's lawyer) which likely involved top brass cops. RTP aren't going to incriminate themselves, are they? ha ha ha, they're laughing all the way to the bank. While Nomsod can dress in flimsy white cotton smock with a gold crown, showing the world what a devout lovely Buddhist boy he is.

Note: Bribing is common in Thailand. It's more often done indirectly, rather than from a principle player to the other principle player. It's more common for money or valuables to be transferred clandestinely via a family member or trusted acquaintance. Thaksin transferred money to his chauffeur and maid. Later, he had agents try to transfer money to a judge. A lawyer is often a good conduit, because even if he's caught carrying something, he can claim 'lawyer/client confidentiality.' On the day after the OJ murders in L.A., OJ's lawyer went in alone to visit OJ at his mansion, then came out carrying a suitcase. Cops couldn't stop or search the lawyer, who was grinning the whole time the press cameras were on him. Go figure.

Edited February 25, 2016 by boomerangutang

[JLCrab]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

... and with his translator scared off by the Mafia 9 JULY 2015, Mr.Samuels was thereafter unable to report on the proceedings of the trial:

1. Jonathan Samuels ‏@jonathansamuels 10 Jul 2015

   Defendants asked to stand as coroner asks if men of their stature could've caused injuries on David Miller. Coroner said that's possible.

   2 retweets1 like

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2. Jonathan Samuels ‏@jonathansamuels 10 Jul 2015

   Expert who carried out post mortems on both bodies tells court David had serious head wounds most likely caused by garden hoe #kohtao

   0 retweets1 like

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[greenchair]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

Well that's so sad my friend Jay because when I tried to get into aleg post but I see I must have drop box that I don't have. And unfortunately the noids are not adept at links. Could you possibly supply the link to it from one noid to a shill.

Bless .

[jayjay78]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk, on 25 Feb 2016 - 04:33, said:

jayjay78, on 24 Feb 2016 - 12:30, said:

bannork, on 24 Feb 2016 - 12:13, said:

if some posters have business interests on Koh Tao and are so-called shills, wouldn't it be in their interest to have the real killers caught? After all if the real killers get away with it they might strike again and that would surely not be good for business.

Who knows what the strategy is, why would mafia threaten the translators at Samui court? According to the vanished post the reach extends to Samui and Bangkok, not just Koh Tao

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

Sky News reporter Jonathan Samuels is on record (and video) confirming it. Other British news agencies reported it as well. So, not gossip and not hearsay.

So other news agencies reported an an un named, unverified " quote" that one sloppy reporter put in an article, and then presto, it's a fact. But it isn't a fact, and this entire conspiracy has oodles of declarations from non facts just like that one

How do I know the reporter didn't just print take what one publicity seeking cling-on told him? One of the Samui gossip gaggle?

Seems to be a habit of press these days in fact, regurgitating what other media reports state, without independently verifying it

[Khun Han]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

[Moonsterk]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL

Responsible press would make a statement to the effect of the translator wished to remain anonymous. Why not here? Because the reporter is reprinting hearsay, is why.

How can anyone seriously take this crap as fact ? It's hearsay and I think there is a concerted effort to make a lot of this hearsay and conjecture accepted as fact on this thread, which is why I will continue to point out this dis-information.

Why would people do it? They lke to feel involved, they like having erred meme circulated endlessly on FB - they like attention, adoration and assorted internet stroking.

[greenchair]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

It's easy to criticize others (and your tone is always quite provocative...) but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Should Andy Hall let all the thai companies exploit their slaves in peace ?

He sure is helping a lot of people, and media attention is part of the game, of course he is seaking it...

As for his involvment in the defense, I don't think he should have testified, he played a good part at giving the attention this case deserved, but he should have used experts instead of testifying himself, the judges found his testimony irrelevant and didn't use what he provided.

We all agree the defense didn't do a perfect job, they did what they could with what they were provided with though...

Hope the appeal will be better. I really don't think the B2 will ever be executed.

If my tone is always quite provocative, it's because you do not like my opinion, perhaps?

but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Is asking such a question is really part of the rules on discourse here? Is it even relevant?

I don't think he should have been seen anywhere near this case. He is on trial for embarrasing the nation, which is pretty much his occupation. We can argue whether it's deserved or not on another thread, regardless I think his presence was not very smart and to continue to allow it in an appeal could be considered malpractice on part of the lead attorney.

The donations for human rights, went from zero to millions of baht because of the b2. Not saying it had anything to do with his wanting to help. But at the end of the day, this was and is a criminal case, the b2 needed qualified criminal lawyers. The human rights in my opinion is a separate issue. I do ask the question.

How much of the money was used to assist the b2?

How much was put in to the organisation of human rights ?

Though I think they are guilty, the defence certainly could have done a lot more.

[greenchair]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Oh is there a luke Miller thread?

[StealthEnergiser]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

I suggest you do a bit of research before making childish responses as you really are embarrassing yourself CS maybe check out CSI on Facebook .

[jayjay78]

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL

Responsible press would make a statement to the effect of the translator wished to remain anonymous. Why not here? Because the reporter is reprinting hearsay, is why.

How can anyone seriously take this crap as fact ? It's hearsay and I think there is a concerted effort to make a lot of this hearsay and conjecture accepted as fact on this thread, which is why I will continue to point out this dis-information.

Why would people do it? They lke to feel involved, they like having erred meme circulated endlessly on FB - they like attention, adoration and assorted internet stroking.

Crab kindly posted his twitter account. Why don't you ask him directly if your so unhappy with his reporting, please come back and report with an update, until then I have other things to do but promise to find time to ignore you when I return.

https://twitter.com/jonathansamuels

Edited February 25, 2016 by jayjay78

[stephenterry]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.

Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.

[Khun Han]

This is a theory like many other theories, is it possible to make it to Bangkok that fast ? Yes I guess so but that would mean a lot of luck on the way ,

Nomsod was not seen on the island , he was not seen at the airport , unless airport officials suddenly decided to hide CCTV images after a call from the influential "mafia" dad. This is all far-out speculations.

Nomsod is shown in the 3 Running Man videos. Nomsod is probably shown in parts of the 59 hours of videos that RTP won't show - and that's not counting the hours of CCTV which Mon refused to hand over to RTP. ....and not counting the CCTV which RTP deemed "too unimportant to even look at" , which may have shown boats leaving the island in the hour after the crime. And there's Maung Maung, a Burmese DJ at AC bar who is said to have claimed to have seen NS in one of the bars that Sunday night. No one is surprises that MM the DJ split to Burma, never to be heard from. Of course, prosecution didn't want the other MM (formerly of the B3) testifying. He also split to Burma, to be incognito. And RTP/prosecution didn't want anything from Sean - who similarly was scooted out of Thailand a.s.a.p. and not heard from again. Those are 3 potential witnesses which Thai authorities (working hand in hand with the Headman's people) don't want to hear a peep from. There are probably others. Even Thai cops admitted that some islanders are too afraid to speak the truth of what they heard/saw.

As for airport: Can we see CCTV of passengers entering or leaving that Monday morning flight to Bkk from Chumpon? Can we see the passenger manifest? Of course not. It's all part of the bungled cover-up which goes all the way up to the self-appointed PM. We, the general public seeking truth & justice will also never see/hear about cell phone histories from that night and the next day. Similarly, we will never see/hear about any money transactions between the Headman's people (including Mon, Headman's wife, NS, NS's lawyer) which likely involved top brass cops. RTP aren't going to incriminate themselves, are they? ha ha ha, they're laughing all the way to the bank. While Nomsod can dress in flimsy white cotton smock with a gold crown, showing the world what a devout lovely Buddhist boy he is.

Note: Bribing is common in Thailand. It's more often done indirectly, rather than from a principle player to the other principle player. It's more common for money or valuables to be transferred clandestinely via a family member or trusted acquaintance. Thaksin transferred money to his chauffeur and maid. Later, he had agents try to transfer money to a judge. A lawyer is often a good conduit, because even if he's caught carrying something, he can claim 'lawyer/client confidentiality.' On the day after the OJ murders in L.A., OJ's lawyer went in alone to visit OJ at his mansion, then came out carrying a suitcase. Cops couldn't stop or search the lawyer, who was grinning the whole time the press cameras were on him. Go figure.

The behaviour toward McAnna is just so strange. Mon and his police goon chased Sean down, allegedly wanting to assist his suicide, and the visiting RTP couldn't get him off the island fast enough afterward. He had to be either arrested as a suspect, or taken into protective custody as a witness. But the investigators couldn't wash their hands of him fast enough. Edited February 25, 2016 by Khun Han

[StealthEnergiser]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

Just a heads up the thread isn't about Andy Hall go troll on another thread.

[JLCrab]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

OK so Bomer's posts are verbose but I don't think they're infuriating -- just verbose.

(Analogy time): It's like a Burns & Allen routine where George Burns would ask Gracie about her Uncle Herman in Milwaukee and Gracie would then ramble on incoherently for the next 20 minutes while George would just stand there not saying a word and smoke his cigar.

Edited February 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[StealthEnergiser]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

It's easy to criticize others (and your tone is always quite provocative...) but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Should Andy Hall let all the thai companies exploit their slaves in peace ?

He sure is helping a lot of people, and media attention is part of the game, of course he is seaking it...

As for his involvment in the defense, I don't think he should have testified, he played a good part at giving the attention this case deserved, but he should have used experts instead of testifying himself, the judges found his testimony irrelevant and didn't use what he provided.

We all agree the defense didn't do a perfect job, they did what they could with what they were provided with though...

Hope the appeal will be better. I really don't think the B2 will ever be executed.

If my tone is always quite provocative, it's because you do not like my opinion, perhaps?

but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Is asking such a question is really part of the rules on discourse here? Is it even relevant?

I don't think he should have been seen anywhere near this case. He is on trial for embarrasing the nation, which is pretty much his occupation. We can argue whether it's deserved or not on another thread, regardless I think his presence was not very smart and to continue to allow it in an appeal could be considered malpractice on part of the lead attorney.

Your tone does sound provocative certainly not a Sweet tone it looks like you are trying to make problems.

Edited February 25, 2016 by StealthEnergiser

[DM07]

If someone states, that Andy Hall, by exposing slave- labor, is "embarrassing the nation" ...that says a lot about that someone and the way, this person perceives Thailand and its justice system! Maybe a discussion about the problems at hand, should be engaged very, very carefully!

[stander]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

"Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia". "

This is a unsubstantiated allegation, no more than tittle-tattle

Edited February 25, 2016 by stander

[Khun Han]

It's not the 'JD' character that posters have mentioned, is it?

[Moonsterk]

"His last call was on Skype from Koh Tao hours before his death. He described the island as paradise and showed us the view from his balcony using his phone and said he was going snorkelling that day. (Sue Miller).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-35639768

Last call was hours before his death? Estimated time of death was 3-5am. Going snorkelling that day? Could that have been night snorkelling? Maybe the call was after midnight and 'that day' relates to the 'day' of the 15th as opposed to the early hours of the 15th. Sure would be good if that sim card turned up that police said was found on the beach.......

Interesting, catsanddogs, interesting. May be another discrepancy. Certainly worth looking into.

How about the 7 or is it 8 hour time difference between Greenwich and Thailand. Just one possible explanation.