'Simply impossible': Husband of Harvard debt-skipping dentist rejects repayment deadline

[katana]

Nice set of teeth, although I guess you'd expect that for a dentist:

Edited February 19, 2016 by katana

[simonuk]

Pure lowlife , selfish , self entitled scumbag.

Cap in hand for help but when its time to honour your debt claim you can't pay it back because you have other stuff you prefer to spend your money on.

Sell you house and pay back the good people who helped your wife out.

Pathetic .

I hope this makes the news in the USA and everyone is aware of the type of characters these two are.

[AZBill]

Just claim she's an Obama liberal and they'll understand the debt will never be repaid.

[Artisi]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent victims in this case as I do for anyone so cruelly exploited. The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape. That's certainly what any prudent lender would do if making such a loan. Mahidol has no incentive now to chase a wild goose looking for repayment from her when they will be made whole by the co-signors.

"The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape"

Your comment is so wrong it borders on stupidity as they didn't have to understand anything - they simply applied standard procedure , all loans must be guaranteed before they are issued.

Yeah they understood the risk and applied standard procedure they had developed to mitigate such risks as...the debtor absconding. All loans must be guaranteed before they are issued? Not in every jurisdiction and not in Thailand.

Sorry you are so wrong, and you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me know what I am wrong about I am curious.

Not in Thailand.

Here's one site which compares loans in Thailand with no guarantor required.

http://www.moneyguru.co.th/en/personal-loan

Irrelevant, the discussion is about an agreement with Mahidol University, entered into in good faith by all, however it would seem not the one being funded had / has other ideas.

[thedemon]

If there was a thread for every Brit, Aussie or Kiwi that hasn't paid their student loan TV would need some more server resources.

Who cares?

[ableguy]

How can anyone get a scholarship worth 30,000,000 baht?? Doesn't sound right to me, maybe there is more to this.

She borrowed ten million, her contract said if she did not return to the university to work for a given period the debt would be tripled. Her guarantors had the extra twenty million taken off the debt so they only repay ten million.

[swerver]

Sounds like they need to sell the house!

Maybe better sell the Porsche

Not only sell the Porsche.

But also sell the outrages price place they are living in.

Here are two people an American and a Thai who were sitting on their brains when they met each other and then got married.

[Basil B]

"The funds I receive from my salary after taxes and healthcare insurance... result in me receiving US$1,100 less than is required to pay the mortgage on our house — the house I purchased with no monetary contribution from Porsche [Dr Dolrudee].”

Wylie words...

He is talking about his income not their joint income.

No doubt if he/they were sincere in paying off her debt no doubt it would be fair to give them more time to pay, but I bet they have have not put any sensible proposal to her creditors.

Maybe they should down size...

[swerver]

The lady ( using term lady, loosely) is a thief and her husband is supportingt her in cheating the very people who made it possible for her to have the material things she now has, plus her dental practice. He pleads lack of funds to repay debt, but does not mention his, and her income, assets, etc.

Those who co signed for her are learning another lesson in the school of hard knocks, much too late to recover what they lost, both money wise and trust of people. The world is full of people like this who go thru life screwing others out of what they can in any way they can. This also makes it difficult to trust and do business without protecting yourself, legally, against these type of people, iunless they put up some assets which covers the amount of money involved.

col·lat·er·al [kə láttərəl]

noun (plural col·lat·er·als)

1. property as security against loan: property or goods used as security against a loan and forfeited if the loan is not repaid

Microsoft® Encarta® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

You said it, " Unless they put up some assets which covers the amount of money involved".

In English this is called, "Bond". There are companies that handle this and are called "Bond Companies".

That is were the co-signers went off the rail.

Like thousands of others, the co-signers knew her as a student and when approached to co-sign they just grabbed the University scholarship contract and signed on the dottedline without for a single second thinkng about a Bond for the amount they signed it seems signed their live away.

Now they're in the middle of the river in a leaking boat. Keep steaming ahead? Turn around? It doesn't make any difference anymore, the boat is sinking.

As for having to work for a certain length of time to repay for the help is as old a system as the days of Rome. In Thailand the majority of Doctors working in Thai Gov. Hospitals are on this system.

The woman her husband calls Porsche amounts to nothing less than a gold digger as shown by her selecting Harvard as the University to do her further dental studies. She could and Mahidon University should have made her to select a less expensive University. But being a gold digger she was after STATUS "face" as they call it in Thailand. She had no intention of returning to Thailand as proven by her marrying and American who in his feeble mind figured he married a Porsche and he says: Porsche. He is not a German.

Edited February 19, 2016 by swerver

[iReason]

For the massively uninformed here on the subject of 30 Million:

"Auichai Iriyawiriyasakul, a representative from Mahidol University, told Morning News the scholarship had been granted on condition that the Harvard instructor would return to work at the Thai university for a period that was three times the length of her studies at the US university."

"As she did not return, she owed the university triple the amount of her tuition with a fine, which totaled over THB30 million, the representative said."

"The four guarantors negotiated with the university in court and agreed to pay about THB8 million, the actual cost of the student loan."

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/01/30/thai-born-harvard-dentist-accused-welching-multi-million-baht-scholarship-debt-mahidol

[Ks45672]

Sounds like they need to sell the house!

Maybe better sell the Porsche

Not only sell the Porsche.

But also sell the outrages price place they are living in.

Here are two people an American and a Thai who were sitting on their brains when they met each other and then got married.

How much is their house worth BTW?

It might be pretty average for 2 USA dentists and If there still in the mortgage it isn't even their house to take....

[Chicog]

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

You make a good point but they can't really bat an eyelid at the people in Thailand - it could have all sorts of consequences.

She, on the other hand, is an easy target and perhaps they are venting the entire contents of their spleens at her.

[PaullyW]

Can Thailand request that she be extradited back to Thailand? Would the USA ever agree to that, especially since I understand she is now a US citizen? Filing charges would get her detained if she ever went near Thailand or maybe traveled through some other foreign country that had an interest in pleasing Thailand

No. Extradition is for criminal cases, not civil lawsuits. I doubt she can be sued in a civil action in the US for defaulting on her loan in Thailand. Probably the loan agreements she signed specified the jurisdiction for legal disputes and that wouldn't be the US.

Isn't "fraud" a criminal case?

Depends entirely on jurisdiction. In Thailand, for example, fraud can be both criminal and civil. In some jurisdictions, it will be purely civil.

[PaullyW]

since when is a scholarship a debt? isn't the whole idea of a scholarship to be a gift? and, even so, if she doesn't pay it, why would there be criminal charges brought against her? its obviously a civil matter. she could just dismiss it in a bankruptcy court or similar, especially if she's in the US now which surely would be more lenient towards her "foreign" debts than a thai bankruptcy court, assuming they have such things. and, as a third option for her, wouldn't there be a statute of limitations to collect old debts and wouldn't they likely have run out or eventually will run out if she avoids it long enough.

Please try, try, try to understand that when the Thais use the word "scholarship" in this case they do not mean that it is a free grant, but a grant with either work or repayment obligations. I know that it deeply offends your sense of order that people could possibly use a word like that with a connotation that is not consistent with English usage, but you might reflect on the fact that you are now in a foreign country.

The US courts do not have jurisdiction over civil actions in Thailand. There is a Thai statute of limitations on her debt obligation which will run out in about three years, after which she will be free to re-enter Thailand with impunity.

Free to enter but probably not without significant risk...

[PaullyW]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

Where's you comment about the local people who have gone into big time debt to pay her loan because they were the guarantors, some limiting their own ability to take care of their own immediate families?

Should they suffer?

As I said, she should be made to repay her debts. People have every right to be angry.

My point was; what's needed is some consistency. People getting really angry with this and rightly so. But why aren't they getting as angry with people who get away with murder and blatant theft from the people.

You could say she's a product of her society. Little or no reprecussions or consequences for her actions because of who she thinks she is.

I'm sure the authorities are doing all they can to recoup the money so let them get on with it. The authorities on the other are doing very little about other miscarriages and you see very little anger.

Again. It's all about context and consistency.

Nice attempt at a save, I don't buy your argument.

I buy his argument. Makes perfect sense to me and it reasonable as well.

Thais are notorious for being cowardly in this regard. They go after "soft" or easy targets and never go after difficult targets. Examples are all over Thai society almost everyday.

Why do we NEVER read or hear otherwise about Thais going after corrupt people in Thailand? Answer: Because they scared to do so.

While this dentist APPEARS to have done wrong - we do not know the entire story - those complaining Thais get no sympathy from me. They need to take on more difficult problems in their own society - even and especially when the problems are difficult. They need to be brave and committed and make necessary sacrifices!

Only then will they get any sympathy from me.

[tomwct]

These scholarships are the same all over the world. Some are no obligations and some do have obligations. Hers has a Teaching

requirement. After she finishes her studies, she is supposed to return to Mahidol to teach. Normally, if it's a full scholarship

ten years of teaching is normal. I am a Lecturer at a university in Korat! Our PHD canidates study with a salary and expenses

for about 3-4 years. When they get the PHD, they return and teach for the required period of time, but most teach forever and

never leave. A Doctor on the other hand, probably can make more money in the private sector, so they would teach for the

required number of years and then leave. Porsche is required to return and teach, probably 10 years, and decided not to!

Now, the contract terms and conditions kicks in! She owes the money, but it looks like she and her husband never planned on

paying back this obligation. Now, Harvard is involved. She will have to come up with a solution to her debt and quick, otherwise

she won't be teaching at Harvard much longer! Harvard can only protect her for a certain period of time before she becomes a

liability.

[Ks45672]

These scholarships are the same all over the world. Some are no obligations and some do have obligations. Hers has a Teaching

requirement. After she finishes her studies, she is supposed to return to Mahidol to teach. Normally, if it's a full scholarship

ten years of teaching is normal. I am a Lecturer at a university in Korat! Our PHD canidates study with a salary and expenses

for about 3-4 years. When they get the PHD, they return and teach for the required period of time, but most teach forever and

never leave. A Doctor on the other hand, probably can make more money in the private sector, so they would teach for the

required number of years and then leave. Porsche is required to return and teach, probably 10 years, and decided not to!

Now, the contract terms and conditions kicks in! She owes the money, but it looks like she and her husband never planned on

paying back this obligation. Now, Harvard is involved. She will have to come up with a solution to her debt and quick, otherwise

she won't be teaching at Harvard much longer! Harvard can only protect her for a certain period of time before she becomes a

liability.

Thais have already contacted harvard and they are unwilling to get involved....

Maybe she could sue harvard for unfair dismissal if they fired her..... In the land of opportunity ....

[Mister Fixit]

>>Her nickname is "Porsche"? Looks more like a Corolla.<<....Fiat Lada ,an old one more like.

In all honesty, I hope it's a misprint by the publication and her real nickname is Portia, but knowing Thais, I suspect Porsche is correct.

It will be correct. I've had a couple of students called Porsche, many called Benz and also BM (most often) or BMW. They are so suspicious that they think if they have a nickname like that, they'll get a fancy car of the same name, or so I was told by a few students.

I even know a Thai chap whose nickname is 'Nissan' - I don't think his parents had high hopes for him ...

The other thing I dislike intensely is how they always pronounce it 'Porshay'. It isn't. The Germans correctly pronounce it 'Porschuh' with the 'uh' lightly inflected. We ignorant Brits just say 'Porsh' ...

Suspicious? Superstitious, presumably?

Yes, sorry, dyslexic fingers ...

[Mister Fixit]

When you refer to the capital of France, do you say "Paree?" I didn't think so, because you're speaking English, not French? Well, the Thais are speaking Thai, oddly enough.

There's no acute accent over the 'e' in Porsche (as there isn't such a mark in German) so it is incorrect pronunciation nevertheless, as it is in English. Someone has just decided to pronounce it that way, and the sheep follow.

How do you think the pronunciation of any word comes into being? Someone decided and everyone followed!

Well, not quite, but I can believe that here. Sheep springs to mind ...

[thaihome]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

[CaptHaddock]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

Applicants for citizenship can normally get a work permit without any difficulty while the application is under consideration.

[Artisi]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

So that makes it all OK not to return as agreed and not to fully repay the debt? Edited February 20, 2016 by Artisi

[thaihome]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

Applicants for citizenship can normally get a work permit without any difficulty while the application is under consideration.

Has she was likely there on student visa when she got married she applied for a change of status while in the US. It likely took 3 years before she got the green card that would allow her to work. Applying for change of status is a heavily reviewed process and is highly frowned on by US immigration authorities.

Once got the green card she could work and after 5 years, including the time her change of status case was under review, she applied for citizenship.

[thaihome]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

So that makes it all OK not to return as agreed and not to fully repay the debt?

You might have a reading disability. Trying to negotiate a longer payment schedule is not refusing to fully repay the debt.

TH

[CaptHaddock]

Would likely help this thread if people read the entire article.

The couple has already paid $50k on the $200k the guarantors settled with the university's finance dept.

The letter to the guarantors was an attempt to negotiate a longer payment schedule then the 30 months in the demand letter sent to the couple by the guarantors lawyer.

During the 3 years Doldaree was acquiring her US citizenship she was not allowed to work.

Just a few points further down in the article.

TH

Applicants for citizenship can normally get a work permit without any difficulty while the application is under consideration.

Has she was likely there on student visa when she got married she applied for a change of status while in the US. It likely took 3 years before she got the green card that would allow her to work. Applying for change of status is a heavily reviewed process and is highly frowned on by US immigration authorities.

Once got the green card she could work and after 5 years, including the time her change of status case was under review, she applied for citizenship.

While waiting for a decision on a green card application the applicant can routinely get a work permit. My wife did after applying for Change of Status. Nor did she experience any frowns from BCIS staff during the process. You apparently don't know anything about the process. It's true that permission to work is very limited for those on a student visa, but from the point of applying for Change of Status on, a work permit is routine.

[thaihome]

Did your wife come on a fiance visa? A COS in that case is part of the process. Coming in on visa where you are expected to leave and then applying for a COS is much different. You must prove that you did not enter fraudulently with the intent to stay. The USCIS assumes you did enter fraudulently and you must prove otherwise.

TH

Edited February 20, 2016 by thaihome

[CaptHaddock]

Did your wife come on a fiance visa? A COS in that case is part of the process. Coming in on visa where you are expected to leave and then applying for a COS is much different. You must prove that you did not enter fraudulently with the intent to stay. The USCIS assumes you did enter fraudulently and you must prove otherwise.

TH

No, my wife came on a student visa, married me seven months later, applied for Change of Status the next day, together with a work permit and Advance Parole, both of which she received each year until the green card application was approved. Every such application was completely routine: pay the fee, get the document. At no point did they ask her any question about her work permit or Advance Parole applications.

You don't help people by explaining how you think the system works according to some notion you have. You either know from experience or you should keep quiet.

[thaihome]

Did your wife come on a fiance visa? A COS in that case is part of the process. Coming in on visa where you are expected to leave and then applying for a COS is much different. You must prove that you did not enter fraudulently with the intent to stay. The USCIS assumes you did enter fraudulently and you must prove otherwise.

TH

No, my wife came on a student visa, married me seven months later, applied for Change of Status the next day, together with a work permit and Advance Parole, both of which she received each year until the green card application was approved. Every such application was completely routine: pay the fee, get the document. At no point did they ask her any question about her work permit or Advance Parole applications.

You don't help people by explaining how you think the system works according to some notion you have. You either know from experience or you should keep quiet.

Congratulations on your wife's successful process.

My statements are based on the article (you did read it, right?) and personal knowledge of case where the wife was not given a work permit. In that case she had no legal status as she had finished school and then got married. The legal proceedings was very painful and she was close to getting deportation order several times. It was certainly her fault for not paying attention to her legal status aND waiting until she was actually in US illegally before filing COS.

Considering the actions of Doldaree in regards to her obligations in thailand, i would not be surprised if she did a similar thing.

TH

[CaptHaddock]

Did your wife come on a fiance visa? A COS in that case is part of the process. Coming in on visa where you are expected to leave and then applying for a COS is much different. You must prove that you did not enter fraudulently with the intent to stay. The USCIS assumes you did enter fraudulently and you must prove otherwise.

TH

No, my wife came on a student visa, married me seven months later, applied for Change of Status the next day, together with a work permit and Advance Parole, both of which she received each year until the green card application was approved. Every such application was completely routine: pay the fee, get the document. At no point did they ask her any question about her work permit or Advance Parole applications.

You don't help people by explaining how you think the system works according to some notion you have. You either know from experience or you should keep quiet.

Congratulations on your wife's successful process.

My statements are based on the article (you did read it, right?) and personal knowledge of case where the wife was not given a work permit. In that case she had no legal status as she had finished school and then got married. The legal proceedings was very painful and she was close to getting deportation order several times. It was certainly her fault for not paying attention to her legal status aND waiting until she was actually in US illegally before filing COS.

Considering the actions of Doldaree in regards to her obligations in thailand, i would not be surprised if she did a similar thing.

TH

To which article are you referring? Did you post a link to it? I have no idea what article you are talking about.

So, now you are referring to some other case known to you where the applicant was illegally in the country. Well, of course, then all bets are off. The BCIS is likely to be harsh. But no one has suggested that Dolrudee was ever illegally present in the US. So, that story is irrelevant to the case at hand.

Your prior claim that an applicant who enters for a presumed temporary stay in the US, i.e. student or tourist, and who then applies for a Change of Status is somehome treated differently with respect to a work permit, is something you just made up because it sounds logical to you. There is no basis in fact for that opinion and my wife's actual experience disproves it. She was never asked to "prove" that she had not entered with an intent to stay as, indeed, she had not.

The discussion is about what Dolrudee did, not what you "would not be surprised" to know that she did, i.e. idle speculation.

Why don't you just sit this one out?

[harrry]

I doubt too many studends will get burseries to study at harvard from Mahidol now.