Commuter chaos as technical fault hits BTS network

[brewsterbudgen]

Ah the BTS. Incompetent and innefficient

Ah, kingalfred, so negative and inaccurate. This must be the 2nd or 3rd technical fault in perhaps 15 years of operation and the first one that hasn't been rectified fairly quickly.

incompetent and inefficient covers all aspects not just this breakdown. I.e The system of ticketing,the dealing with volumes of passengers etc. So Think again, or just think!

Yes, it would be nice to have a combined BTS / MRT money card

I believe the combined BTS/MRT "Spider" card is to be launched in August. Edited February 25, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[brewsterbudgen]

Make alternative travel arrangements? I wonder what BTS management had in mind, hours after the problem became known. Desperate to hang onto travellers, notice of the issue was not particularly prominent at stations. I paid the BTS for the privilege of accessing the Thonglor platform for Phrom Phong, but after ten minutes, with no train evident in the distance and an ever growing queue, then elected to walk.

You could have got a refund at the station although the large numbers of people would have made it a lengthy process.

Not a lengthy process. Twice yesterday I entered a station and then decided to walk/take alternative transport when I saw the queues. Both times it took less than a minute to get by card re-credited

Good to know. Thanks.

[MiKT]

Well, for what it's worth, this is a pretty uncommon occurrence; the BTS is generally very reliable transportation. If you can remember back pre Dec 1999, a trip from Klongtoey to Childom (home and work) could take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours. Stuff breaks and it seems like the folks at BTS are on top of it,

That’s right; people here don't remember the terrible chaos pre Dec 1999. Yes, it was far worse than today (I once spent 8 hrs driving from Silom to Don Muang) and how lucky they are to have had the Skytrain built in the first place. There was terrible opposition from those who did not want the great unwashed looking into their posh schools, or even worse stopping and letting their little darlings mingle with the hoi pollie.

Nor do they remember the small numbers of passengers for quite a few years that never made the BTS a viable commercial proposition. Successive Governments did not want to put money into railways and only You Know Who made the Underground possible.

The BTS may not be anywhere near as good as it could have been, but it has not done to badly for 16 years and more lines being added will help the overall situation in Bangkok.

However, the ticketing situation has been a travesty. BTS started off with gates and TVM's using magnetic tickets that were exactly as used in Singapore in the 80’s but has failed to keep up with the times and although it has smart cards now, it has not made any real effort to do what needs to be done to provide real through ticketing to the underground. This situation will persist with the Green/Purple Lines, etc. until the Government actually makes it worthwhile for the BTS to change. It’s a concession and needs to make money like any commercial enterprise.

The Government should have sorted this out long ago and the new proposed Central Clearing House will not help with the single ticket situation. Given the 20 Million visitors a year to KT it is ridiculous not to put a very small amount of money into through ticketing.

As for reliability, both the BTS and the Underground have been very reliable on a train kilometerage basis (both the Siemens and the Chinese stock) and the staff (99.999% Thai) have been very professional and have done a fantastic job.

Certainly they need to get more 4 car trains, but unless the government show willing it takes time.

Look at the fantastic job that has been done in Seoul or Shanghai with numerous lines built at Government expense and what a difference they have made to the economies. We are cursed with a Government that wants to spend money on tanks and submarines and the like when they don’t have a real justification any more. Now they want to spend on an extensive HS train network that is not required yet, just to look good and get their mitts on Chinese money. Let’s have some reasonable speed trains that don’t fall off the crumbling lines every day, let’s have dual tracks, not expensive HS trains that will not be able to run at full capacity for another 50 years.

If you want to know about breakdowns, try standing in the snow waiting for a BR train that will not come until tomorrow, or next week if the wrong snow is on the line; or for the TFL drivers to come off strike. Breakdowns are an everyday occurrence on every railway network, even in Japan.

Fortunately for Bangkokians extended breakdowns have been very rare on the BTS and accidents very, very few.

Count your blessings whilst sweating in the queues.

The though ticketing system will be in place by August. The delay is due to the Government and their related transport agencies. BTS has submitted a proposal to purchase more 4 car trains last week. This was originally envisaged for 2017 but passenger numbers are now above 733,000 on weekdays, so that purchase has been brought forward.

Please explain how they are going to handle through ticketing for single journeys as the two systems are incompatible at the moment. The Blue line (underground) uses tokens, as will the Purple line and all new lines constructed under MRTA - that is all new lines (and extensions to the BTS) to be built in Bangkok; but the BTS is still using ancient mag cards.

Yes, all the moaners don't seem to realise how long it has taken for the passenger numbers to build up to volumes that make it worth while to add more cars. Be thankful that the BTS can be extended even more, you can't add more cars on any London Underground Line currently running.

Why do people here post idiotic comments about Thais and preventative maintenance? If you have the slightest idea about railways or maintenance you must realise that a railway that has been running very successfully for 16 years and done millions of train miles (sorry kilometers) must have a good preventative maintenance system in place.

Save your crap comments for the SRT who really are terrible at maintenance.

[dddave]

Remember when the Germans were running this at the start.No problems.It ran like a well oiled machine.Then Ha,Ha, give it to the incompetent so they then hire their kenfoke to work there..Yes sir I can hear it now "I wonder whats this switch is for".WOW look at that!

Yup, them Germans really know how to run trains so much better than Thais.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12147601/German-train-crash-Several-killed-and-100-injured-in-Bad-Aibling-Bavaria-live.html

[Crossy]

The though ticketing system will be in place by August. The delay is due to the Government and their related transport agencies. BTS has submitted a proposal to purchase more 4 car trains last week. This was originally envisaged for 2017 but passenger numbers are now above 733,000 on weekdays, so that purchase has been brought forward.

Interesting.

Which system will be used for through ticketing (lets stick to the smart cards and ignore the single ride issue)?

EDIT To make it fare you have the choices of:- Mangmoom (Spider), Rabbit, MRT Plus (that's the PL card for MiKT), something else.

[hawker9000]

Well, for what it's worth, this is a pretty uncommon occurrence; the BTS is generally very reliable transportation. If you can remember back pre Dec 1999, a trip from Klongtoey to Childom (home and work) could take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours. Stuff breaks and it seems like the folks at BTS are on top of it,

This is the reason for "preventive maintenance". Ever head of it? (If so, I expect it wasn't here...). Don't say it, we already know: there's a budget for that. And we know where a nice chunk of that ends up. The BTS is aging; expect more of this. TIT.

Please present facts as to where the maintenance money goes. The BTS is aging and so is everyone else. I use to walk pretty fast, but now I take the BTS.

Now if I could do that, and did do that, these days, I'd be having my attitude adjusted, wouldn't I? Previously, I'd have fallen off some hotel balcony or been found hanging wi my hands tied behind my back (an obvious suicide) or perhaps died unexpectedly (since I never touch the stuff) of a drug overdose.... Get real. ...and your head out of the sand. (Not necessarily in that order...) Edited February 25, 2016 by hawker9000

[CoreanoOzzie]

Do you include yourself in that vacuous observation? Or are you of the local variety?

Because they're a bunch of failures in their home countries and had to resort to a developing nation to survive. Losers

No I do not, I moved here because my Thai wife wanted to move back home. I am an intelligent, educated man. Hardly a loser, unlike many on here.

Edited February 25, 2016 by CoreanoOzzie

[Searat7]

When you consider how long the BTS has been in operation there really have been very few service disruptions over the years....the MRT is equally reliable. Both , however , should invest in additional cars for the trains to handle the additional volume. The MRT is still operating the same 3 car trains that began service in 2004

No it is NOT operating the three (3) car system. They contrary to design because this is Thailand were people know everything better than the designer(s) of equipment, the Thais added a fourth car to the 3-car system and to add insult to injury the fourth car was of Siemens China design, not Siemens Germany design. The moment they did that problems started on the Silom line which started to operate with 3-German designed cars and 1-China designed car. The problem wasn't the cars, the problem was the electronic equipment not being compatible. It was straightened out over time. The other line ran/runs okay because the complete train is Siemens China design. Siemens warned the Thais that this problem could occur when they were mixing design origin, but the Thais know better, as already mentioned above.

The Siemens German original design is one motor car on each end with a trailing car in-between. Then as time moved on and more people started getting used to and using the sky train another 3-car train would be coupled with the other train making for a six (6) car train. Consequently the platforms are designed to accommodate a six (6) car train. Now with a four(4) car train, you CANNOT couple another train because you will have an eight (8) car train making two (2) cars not lining up with the platform.

This 4-car train in time will cause serious problems when continuous loaded to capacity and more because the TRAILING cars have NO electric motors and have NO brakes. The 2-motor cars are designed to accommodate one (1) trailing car NOT two (2) trailing cars, but as said already Thais know everything better than the designers.

As BKK Post Bernard for so many years would say, "TIT".

I'm very familiar with this system, when going to Technical college I travelled on a system like this, starting from Utrecht it was a two train unit, in Gouda it was uncoupled, one unit went on to Rotterdam and the other unit went on to s'Gravenhagen. On their way back the two units coupled again at Gouda and continued on to Utrecht as a two unit train. But that was in the Western world "were everybody is stupid" and follows designed instructions.

LOL in LOS.

I said that the MRT still uses a 3 car train, not the BTS which I realize has 4 cars. Both could easily add one car more to their trains to handle increased ridership

[MiKT]

The though ticketing system will be in place by August. The delay is due to the Government and their related transport agencies. BTS has submitted a proposal to purchase more 4 car trains last week. This was originally envisaged for 2017 but passenger numbers are now above 733,000 on weekdays, so that purchase has been brought forward.

Interesting.

Which system will be used for through ticketing (lets stick to the smart cards and ignore the single ride issue)?

EDIT To make it fare you have the choices of:- Mangmoom (Spider), Rabbit, MRT Plus (that's the PL card for MiKT), something else.

That's not fair Crossy, just like BTS you are evading the important single ride issue and you know very well which card it is going to be, don't be obtuse (again).

But boy how (moderately) lucky people in Bangkok are to now have two lines running and more on the way. I am currently working on Dhaka Line 6 which has just starting construction ..............unfortunately Lines 1 to 5 have not even reached the planning stage yet. If you really want to see traffic chaos come to Dhaka. Blimey, you would even be praising Bangkok Bus drivers (oh such blasphemy, I will wash my mouth out with soap).

But you know how good HK, Singy, Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, etc. new metros are, even the camel jockeys (no racial offence meant Mod) have very good metro's now and the Government here should have put much more money into Bangkok railways. The overall costs to the country in lost time, not to mention health issues are tremendous and overshadow the cost of building a railway.

Vote for the politician who will provide Bangkok with better railways...................oh dear you can't......... 555.

[cat handler]

When you consider how long the BTS has been in operation there really have been very few service disruptions over the years....the MRT is equally reliable. Both , however , should invest in additional cars for the trains to handle the additional volume. The MRT is still operating the same 3 car trains that began service in 2004

No it is NOT operating the three (3) car system. They contrary to design because this is Thailand were people know everything better than the designer(s) of equipment, the Thais added a fourth car to the 3-car system and to add insult to injury the fourth car was of Siemens China design, not Siemens Germany design. The moment they did that problems started on the Silom line which started to operate with 3-German designed cars and 1-China designed car. The problem wasn't the cars, the problem was the electronic equipment not being compatible. It was straightened out over time. The other line ran/runs okay because the complete train is Siemens China design. Siemens warned the Thais that this problem could occur when they were mixing design origin, but the Thais know better, as already mentioned above.

The Siemens German original design is one motor car on each end with a trailing car in-between. Then as time moved on and more people started getting used to and using the sky train another 3-car train would be coupled with the other train making for a six (6) car train. Consequently the platforms are designed to accommodate a six (6) car train. Now with a four(4) car train, you CANNOT couple another train because you will have an eight (8) car train making two (2) cars not lining up with the platform.

This 4-car train in time will cause serious problems when continuous loaded to capacity and more because the TRAILING cars have NO electric motors and have NO brakes. The 2-motor cars are designed to accommodate one (1) trailing car NOT two (2) trailing cars, but as said already Thais know everything better than the designers.

As BKK Post Bernard for so many years would say, "TIT".

I'm very familiar with this system, when going to Technical college I travelled on a system like this, starting from Utrecht it was a two train unit, in Gouda it was uncoupled, one unit went on to Rotterdam and the other unit went on to s'Gravenhagen. On their way back the two units coupled again at Gouda and continued on to Utrecht as a two unit train. But that was in the Western world "were everybody is stupid" and follows designed instructions.

LOL in LOS.

A few errors, first not only power cars have brakes all railcars have brakes, the power cars have an air/dynamic brake blend on the motor bogie and straight air on the trailer bogie, the trailer railcars have straight air brakes, an emergency application is a straight air application with no dynamic brake blend. You could easy couple a 4th railcar to a 3 car consist particularly if it's a trailer as the only electrics used would be lighting, compressor and door operation and if there were any problems communicating the railcars simply wouldn't move, if you couple the two together and can drive them without problems in the test scenario then magical problems don't just appear. on the BTS there are no ruling grades as such so power wouldn't be an issue. The platforms look like they could easily accomodate a 6 car consist however. I would suggest the 2 power car 1 Trailer configuration is for reliability because a 1 power car 2 trailers consist would be no problem on their flat deck unless you had a fault in the power unit, that's where the second power unit comes in handy. You also need to consider to buy extra railcars is an expensive excersise, in Aussie dollars you won't get much change from $14 Million dollars EACH railcar.

[Crossy]

That's not fair Crossy, just like BTS you are evading the important single ride issue and you know very well which card it is going to be, don't be obtuse (again).

Well I'm 99.9% certain that Mangmoom won't be doing anything significant by August no matter what the politicians say, not sufficient interest from the service providers and there's still no operating company in place.

MRT Plus will at least have two lines accepting it in August (Blue and Purple) and you can already buy them (all new MRT cards are this brand and will work on Purple when it opens) but it's unlikely to ever be used outside of the realm controlled by MRTA (so not the BTS or SRT Red Line).

Just to add to the mix, the BTS northern extension will be all contactless (the contract includes upgrading the rest of the system too), but the current plan is for it to use smart tickets like the BRT, not tokens.

[sandyf]

My main gripe is the lack of signage and announcements regarding problems such as these. It would not be all that difficult to have bill boards with messages in Thai and English regarding the nature of the current problem and how long trains are being delayed.

Of course that has to be a Thai problem.

I was on the Montreal metro and the train just came to a stop in the tunnel, the only announcement was in French.

[pookiki]

My main gripe is the lack of signage and announcements regarding problems such as these. It would not be all that difficult to have bill boards with messages in Thai and English regarding the nature of the current problem and how long trains are being delayed.

Of course that has to be a Thai problem.

I was on the Montreal metro and the train just came to a stop in the tunnel, the only announcement was in French.

I can read and understand Thai -- signs in Thai would be sufficient for me. However, as of the first of this year, English is the 'official' language for all ASEAN countries.

[MiKT]

That's not fair Crossy, just like BTS you are evading the important single ride issue and you know very well which card it is going to be, don't be obtuse (again).

Well I'm 99.9% certain that Mangmoom won't be doing anything significant by August no matter what the politicians say, not sufficient interest from the service providers and there's still no operating company in place.

MRT Plus will at least have two lines accepting it in August (Blue and Purple) and you can already buy them (all new MRT cards are this brand and will work on Purple when it opens) but it's unlikely to ever be used outside of the realm controlled by MRTA (so not the BTS or SRT Red Line).

Just to add to the mix, the BTS northern extension will be all contactless (the contract includes upgrading the rest of the system too), but the current plan is for it to use smart tickets like the BRT, not tokens.

Exactly Crossy, single journey through ticketing has been a travesty for 16 years and it will remain so until..........God I can't even imagine... maybe when consideration for the Bangkok travelling pubic overcomes commercial self interest and over inflated ego's...........so there we are, still can't imagine it happening.