Ignorance about the Third Gender

[Jingthing]

I am reminded of a past colleague who used the " Third gender" when describing school teachers. I never understood exactly why because it was not seemingly based on actual gender apparent.

But for Thailand I have observed that in my opinnion there are two main catagories. There are those that are genotypically confused and so are genuinely a third sex. The others are a confusion of social/ pshycological impression and/or compulsion.

I have no attraction to either but have found that the majority of the first catagory are usually as much as can be are socially functionally normal people despite obvious gender contradiction. I have no experience to say the same about " working" individuals in Pattaya etc .

Similarly the "Tomboys" in Thailand are not often man hating lesbians. I have the increasing impression that the partners of tomboys in Thailand are more likely to be victims of trauma regarding males .

My overall opinion is that provided they do not demand special social status similar to many western countries I have no issues.

If you do not understand my differentiation .....try to organize a "Hetoresexual Parade" in a western country !

Every parade is already a heterosexual parade, dude, unless specifically a Gay Pride Parade.

As the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexually identified and/or cisgender identified.

There have been parades in some countries like Uganda which advertise they are straight parades ... they carry signs saying stuff like KILL THE GAYS. So you see, those are not heterosexual parades, they are HATE PARADES against GLBT people.

So in that sense, I consider your post above very ignorant about the actual reality of the civil rights struggles for GLBT people worldwide, including Thailand.

Dumbastheycome ... perfectly apt that.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[sunnyjim5]

I am reminded of a past colleague who used the " Third gender" when describing school teachers. I never understood exactly why because it was not seemingly based on actual gender apparent.

But for Thailand I have observed that in my opinnion there are two main catagories. There are those that are genotypically confused and so are genuinely a third sex. The others are a confusion of social/ pshycological impression and/or compulsion.

I have no attraction to either but have found that the majority of the first catagory are usually as much as can be are socially functionally normal people despite obvious gender contradiction. I have no experience to say the same about " working" individuals in Pattaya etc .

Similarly the "Tomboys" in Thailand are not often man hating lesbians. I have the increasing impression that the partners of tomboys in Thailand are more likely to be victims of trauma regarding males .

My overall opinion is that provided they do not demand special social status similar to many western countries I have no issues.

If you do not understand my differentiation .....try to organize a "Hetoresexual Parade" in a western country !

Every parade is already a heterosexual parade, dude, unless specifically a Gay Pride Parade.

As the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexually identified and/or cisgender identified.

There have been parades in some countries like Uganda which advertise they are straight parades ... they carry signs saying stuff like KILL THE GAYS. So you see, those are not heterosexual parades, they are HATE PARADES against GLBT people.

So in that sense, I consider your post above very ignorant about the actual reality of the civil rights struggles for GLBT people worldwide, including Thailand.

Dumbastheycome ... perfectly apt that.

It is of course interesting that the GLBT crowd feel the need to shout, scream, parade and advertise (to the world of course) their preferred form of sexuality.

Maybe this group of people would be better described as Narcissistic Exhibitionists ?

[bbbbooboo]

Maybe its natures way of population control. One thing is certain they won't have babies

[sunnyjim5]

Maybe its natures way of population control. One thing is certain they won't have babies

But they do attempt to acquire children by various means

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gay-couple-fight-get-surrogate-baby-out-thailand-1513261

[northernphil]

Starting to get more impressed with thaivisa again. No mention of ladyboy/shemale bar girls who drug/rob/ farangs/non thais, good to here that many know that not all ladyboys work bar or freelance on the streets.

Yes , plenty to be seen on television and they don't attack folk with high heels nor to they work on the streets. My best Thai mate is a ladyboy , have known him/her for nearly 2 years and despite his very poor English and my Thai much the same we get on great. , I said he would look better with a pair of noms , he asked me to by him a pair , I said I would buy one this coming birthday and one next year , That tickled him.

Thailand is well known for a number of unusual issues while the relative abundance of ladyboys / shemales is one of them.

Most foreigners will never come in contact with the ladyboys rather just see them on T.V. and Movies and on the Internet maybe see them from afar sometimes.

However if you go to the bar districts then you will see more than enough ladyboys while a good percent of them are very attractive and just as attractive as many of the girls / women.

But what ever you think of them, in the end, they are men dressing and acting like women and trying their best to look feminine while I would surmise most of them really do not feel like they are a women trapped in a mans body rather they are a particular kind of Kinky and they like the erotic aspect of role playing as a female dressed in the image of a sexy looking female.

Cheers

I think you are right gemguy , the one I know very well ( and known through out this provincial town as Gipsee ; Hairband ) told me he wanted to be a girl when he was 13 yo , has no noms but always wears a bra and he can burst into tears with little notice so again , internal confusion. Cheers.

[colinneil]

A man is a man, a woman is a woman.

Nothing inbetween end of story.

[Dumbastheycome]

I am reminded of a past colleague who used the " Third gender" when describing school teachers. I never understood exactly why because it was not seemingly based on actual gender apparent.

But for Thailand I have observed that in my opinnion there are two main catagories. There are those that are genotypically confused and so are genuinely a third sex. The others are a confusion of social/ pshycological impression and/or compulsion.

I have no attraction to either but have found that the majority of the first catagory are usually as much as can be are socially functionally normal people despite obvious gender contradiction. I have no experience to say the same about " working" individuals in Pattaya etc .

Similarly the "Tomboys" in Thailand are not often man hating lesbians. I have the increasing impression that the partners of tomboys in Thailand are more likely to be victims of trauma regarding males .

My overall opinion is that provided they do not demand special social status similar to many western countries I have no issues.

If you do not understand my differentiation .....try to organize a "Hetoresexual Parade" in a western country !

Every parade is already a heterosexual parade, dude, unless specifically a Gay Pride Parade.

As the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexually identified and/or cisgender identified.

There have been parades in some countries like Uganda which advertise they are straight parades ... they carry signs saying stuff like KILL THE GAYS. So you see, those are not heterosexual parades, they are HATE PARADES against GLBT people.

So in that sense, I consider your post above very ignorant about the actual reality of the civil rights struggles for GLBT people worldwide, including Thailand.

Dumbastheycome ... perfectly apt that.

Aha ! A parade is a parade. A "Gay Parade" is a promotive exhibition more than any "civil rights" issue. Uganda? Hardly a country with a history of any social norms ..and if carrying signs say "KILL" would indicate not much has changed.

Civil rights ? In most civilized countries civil rights exist for everyone under law. AS a heterosexual member of such I have my civil rights no more or less than a transexual, homosexual, etc. As a heterosexual I have no "rights" to proclaim it. In contrast "Gay Parades" which are not in the interests of the whole of society require the disruption of businesses, commuters, police/security personnel in the closing of streets etc for a their proclamation. A "Civil Right" denied heterosexuals generally. Parades for the whole of society where gender identity selection is not the focus do not qualify in this differentiation.

I have stated nothing in objection to the reality of alternative gender identification or to individuals who for whatever reason take that alternative . I have friends who have taken that alternative.

I have no knowledge of or interest in "GLBT". Is it some elite group using public funds as an occupational platform?

If your reference to my user name is a snide attempt to catagorize me as sub intellect I would suggest you refer to the definitions of dumb.

My inability to vocalize does not reduce my ability to read and write, to be educated, to have opinion and to defend that opinion..

Discrimination of any type is a socially indoctrinated mindset initiated by ignorance.

.

[Jingthing]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

[Dumbastheycome]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

Do you object to the "civil right" to be straight?

[Jingthing]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

Do you object to the "civil right" to be straight?

Obviously not, dude.

You've already got yours.

In the vast majority of the world, GLBT are facing civil rights struggles, and in many cases they live under states with death penalties in effect for their sexuality.

Heterosexual and cisgender people don't have such issues.

[Morakot]

I have no knowledge of or interest in "GLBT".

Why then post long stories here? Or are you just coming out in a rather long-winded way?

Edited February 29, 2016 by Morakot

[Asheron]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of being gay. Nor straight for that matter. Or even black, white etc etc etc.

[hawker9000]

Assuming "gender" (usually intended to mean sexual orientation) to be a social or cultural term rather than biological, then numbering genders is pointless since sexual orientation is on a continuum rather than being discrete groupings.

Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history ...

No. You're spouting complete fiction. "Gender" is NOT usually, if EVER used to mean "sexual orientation". You make stuff up out of thin air and then proceed to natter about it as your "given". "Gender" denotes gender, as in male and female, NOT "sexual orientation" as in heterosexual or homosexual. It's arguably possible to change one's gender from one to another, but not into some non-existent "third gender". The very terminology is absurd, as is anyone using it. There ARE ONLY two genders. Thailand can foolishly "declare" a third gender, but there simply is no such thing. Edited February 29, 2016 by hawker9000

[Jingthing]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of being gay. Nor straight for that matter. Or even black, white etc etc etc.

I don't think you understand the concept of civil rights movements of minority groups when they are oppressed and told they are "less than" by the majority.

[Jingthing]

Third gender just seems to be a Thai cultural way of talking about transgender people that for a variety of reasons don't easily fit into standard male/female labeling. Of course biologically the vast majority of babies are born either male or female. Some are biologically ambiguous though and that can cause a lot of problems for the parents and the child.

So I see the third gender thing as more of a social construct than anything reflected in biology.

All societies deal with transgender issues differently.

Thailand isn't the only culture that refers to third gender of course but certainly not all do. I think most don't.

But this isn't only about genital biology as identity comes into play as well. In fact, it's mostly about identity.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[sunnyjim5]

There has been some progress !

The Thai Army used to refuse these people by providing a paper which stated they were mentally defective!

They are still refused but do not get that paper ...........

[Asheron]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of being gay. Nor straight for that matter. Or even black, white etc etc etc.

I don't think you understand the concept of civil rights movements of minority groups when they are oppressed and told they are "less than" by the majority.

I fully understand that there is nothing to be proud of being gay or anything else related to which gender you get turned on about. "Pride" in this context has nothing to do with civil rights for any group.

Surely pride is something you should feel for instance when you accomplish something, not something you are born as.

[Jingthing]

So the straight dude feels oppressed because of gay pride parades. Too stupid.

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of being gay. Nor straight for that matter. Or even black, white etc etc etc.

I don't think you understand the concept of civil rights movements of minority groups when they are oppressed and told they are "less than" by the majority.

I fully understand that there is nothing to be proud of being gay or anything else related to which gender you get turned on about. "Pride" in this context has nothing to do with civil rights for any group.

Surely pride is something you should feel for instance when you accomplish something, not something you are born as.

OK, that's your opinion.

But I think you are deliberately taking the word pride in Gay Pride parades more literally than it really should be taken. They started as all politics to fight oppression. Society was telling gay people they're garbage, and gay people said no we're not, and we're going to fight for our civil rights.

I know about this because I marched in some of the first Gay Pride Parade parades in the history of the planet so I'm better than Wiki. Not in jockstraps but with political banners.

In some nations they are still mostly about politics to fight oppression and in others they are now mostly about a big excuse for a party, like St. Patrick's Day Parades, etc. Proud to be Irish or an honorary Irish for the day? Why the hell not?

Thai GLBT people aren't much into gay pride parades. Their choice either way. No biggie. But they do like to party.

In the west even in countries where GLBT enjoy decent civil rights, they can still be politically and psychologically important for younger people coming out in oppressive family (usually related to religion) and social environments.

Like if you're family is telling you you're garbage, to a gay kid like that, seeing Gay Pride parades may help him hang on to survive into adulthood as he can see there is a bigger more tolerant world out there.

To add, sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing. But all people deserve dignity and civil rights.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[Asheron]

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of being gay. Nor straight for that matter. Or even black, white etc etc etc.

I don't think you understand the concept of civil rights movements of minority groups when they are oppressed and told they are "less than" by the majority.

I fully understand that there is nothing to be proud of being gay or anything else related to which gender you get turned on about. "Pride" in this context has nothing to do with civil rights for any group.

Surely pride is something you should feel for instance when you accomplish something, not something you are born as.

OK, that's your opinion.

But I think you are deliberately taking the word pride in Gay Pride parades more literally than it really should be taken. They started as all politics to fight oppression. Society was telling gay people they're garbage, and gay people said no we're not, and we're going to fight for our civil rights.

I know about this because I marched in some of the first Gay Pride Parade parades in the history of the planet so I'm better than Wiki. Not in jockstraps but with political banners.

In some nations they are still mostly about politics to fight oppression and in others they are now mostly about a big excuse for a party, like St. Patrick's Day Parades, etc. Proud to be Irish or an honorary Irish for the day? Why the hell not?

Thai GLBT people aren't much into gay pride parades. Their choice either way. No biggie. But they do like to party.

In the west even in countries where GLBT enjoy decent civil rights, they can still be politically and psychologically important for younger people coming out in oppressive family (usually related to religion) and social environments.

Like if you're family is telling you you're garbage, to a gay kid like that, seeing Gay Pride parades may help him hang on to survive into adulthood as he can see there is a bigger more tolerant world out there.

To add, sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing. But all people deserve dignity and civil rights.

I don't think we are on different pages, i think we are pretty much on the same exact page when it comes to civil rights... i just have a big issue with using the wrong words for whatever they are advocating. And i think the word "pride" has no place when talking about skin color, sexual preference or anything else some one is born with/as.

What i mean is, have your gay parades, go a head, i couldn't care less. But skip the "pride" part. And please do behave like normal people if someone did have "straight parade", even if you find it silly/whatever, because surely they have the same rights to have parades like that... even if they are majority.

But i do find it offensive that so many in the LGBT community embrace religions that extremely clearly state that their so called "sexual condition" (their words, not mine) is punishable by death.

[Jingthing]

No, we're most certainly not on the same page.

You're obsessed with the word pride and insist on taking it literally even though I have explained very well how the concept of Gay Pride came about historically. You don't care ... just focus on the semantics of one word. Silly. Very silly.

As far as straight pride parades ... NOBODY CARES unless they are about marching as way to put down GLBT people.

In the real world, "Straight Pride" parades are almost always about the only purpose being to promote bigotry against GLBT people.

It's like Aryan Pride parades ... those are white supremacists and they are horrible haters.

Now if you're talking about a German Cultural Pride event with sausages and beer ... that's more like it. Count me in!

[canathai8]

When can we start talking about Unisex people?

It's all a little over the top, but that's cool..

On another note, Lady Gaga stole the show..

[sunnyjim5]

My problem with these people is that they took a word "gay" and distorted its original meaning to one indicating sexual deviancy.

[happy Joe]

Maybe its natures way of population control. One thing is certain they won't have babies

In a time where the source of all planetary problems is overcrowding I think that nature incites to sterile sexual intercourse,

Edited February 29, 2016 by happy Joe

[Asheron]

No, we're most certainly not on the same page.

You're obsessed with the word pride and insist on taking it literally even though I have explained very well how the concept of Gay Pride came about historically. You don't care ... just focus on the semantics of one word. Silly. Very silly.

As far as straight pride parades ... NOBODY CARES unless they are about marching as way to put down GLBT people.

In the real world, "Straight Pride" parades are almost always about the only purpose being to promote bigotry against GLBT people.

It's like Aryan Pride parades ... those are white supremacists and they are horrible haters.

Now if you're talking about a German Cultural Pride event with sausages and beer ... that's more like it. Count me in!

Semantics and definitions of words is the only way to view words... because if not then you just make up your own definitions of words to your liking or agenda.

Now that you take up skin color... do you think that groups like "black lives matter", "black panthers", "black pride", "la raza", "nation of islam" are haters? If not, why not? Because they are just as much haters as groups like KKK, only difference is the melanin the hate groups have in their bodies.

[canathai8]

My problem with these people is that they took a word "gay" and distorted its original meaning to one indicating sexual deviancy.

As a Hetrosexual - I take minor umbrage at that statement.

Remember sunny - when you point a finger at someone - ten fingers point back at you! Funny how that works..

We should all avoid judging others in a negative light - because we're all too imperfect to wade in those deep, uncertain waters..

But Pardon me, I have to go rip some wings off a few flying insects..as I suspect they don't agree with my personal Dogma..

Kindest Regards

[Jingthing]

No, we're most certainly not on the same page.

You're obsessed with the word pride and insist on taking it literally even though I have explained very well how the concept of Gay Pride came about historically. You don't care ... just focus on the semantics of one word. Silly. Very silly.

As far as straight pride parades ... NOBODY CARES unless they are about marching as way to put down GLBT people.

In the real world, "Straight Pride" parades are almost always about the only purpose being to promote bigotry against GLBT people.

It's like Aryan Pride parades ... those are white supremacists and they are horrible haters.

Now if you're talking about a German Cultural Pride event with sausages and beer ... that's more like it. Count me in!

Semantics and definitions of words is the only way to view words... because if not then you just make up your own definitions of words to your liking or agenda.

Now that you take up skin color... do you think that groups like "black lives matter", "black panthers", "black pride", "la raza", "nation of islam" are haters? If not, why not? Because they are just as much haters as groups like KKK, only difference is the melanin the hate groups have in their bodies.

No, I don't think the Black Lives Matter movement is a hatred movement. I think it's a civil rights movement emphasizing that systemized racism against black people is still a big problem in the USA. Duh! That said, sure some of their followers are probably racist towards others but that's not the core message of the movement. But this is really getting off topic now.

Getting back to the topic.

Of course there's a lot of ignorance about what Thais call third gender people. I'm not sure that article is going to help much though.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[northernphil]

My problem with these people is that they took a word "gay" and distorted its original meaning to one indicating sexual deviancy.

As a Hetrosexual - I take minor umbrage at that statement.

Remember sunny - when you point a finger at someone - ten fingers point back at you! Funny how that works..

We should all avoid judging others in a negative light - because we're all too imperfect to wade in those deep, uncertain waters..

But Pardon me, I have to go rip some wings off a few flying insects..as I suspect they don't agree with my personal Dogma..

Kindest Regards

Sorry to be picky but when you point at someone 3 fingers point back . Unless of course you have 8 fingers on one hand . sorry loosing count now , been on TV for the past 3 hours.

[northernphil]

My problem with these people is that they took a word "gay" and distorted its original meaning to one indicating sexual deviancy.

I wonder where gay ​in the gay context came from and when. The '60s I think. In the '50s I lived next door to a family the surname being Parsons , the youngest daughter was called Gay. I bet she wished she had been Christened , Jim, John anything but Gay.

[AdamRich]

Can we all assume the OP likes Transgenders ??

No need to defend anything as the whole issue.... is what it is..... while people will do what they want to do anyhow even if there are loads of critics out there to criticize what they do.

The transgender population here in Thailand is flourishing all the more, so people better get used to it or just learn to tolerate all that is entailed or ignore all that is entailed.

Cheers

I just wish they would stop clicking the female box when making their profiles on dating websites. I am tired of having to surf through and figure out who is a ladyboy or not when fishing for women.

[Jingthing]

Can we all assume the OP likes Transgenders ??

No need to defend anything as the whole issue.... is what it is..... while people will do what they want to do anyhow even if there are loads of critics out there to criticize what they do.

The transgender population here in Thailand is flourishing all the more, so people better get used to it or just learn to tolerate all that is entailed or ignore all that is entailed.

Cheers

I just wish they would stop clicking the female box when making their profiles on dating websites. I am tired of having to surf through and figure out who is a ladyboy or not when fishing for women.

So a third sex button would be a benefit then, wouldn't it?