How to explain World War 2 to a Thai person

[RikDao]

Given Thailand's collusion with Japan during WW2 it is probably no surprise that the subject is not spoken about in Thai schools.

Umm, you sure? There's a small museum in Phrae dedicated to the memory of the Thai underground anti-Japanese resistance in WW II. They taught British and American intel agents how to survive in SE Asian jungles, engaged in anti-Japanese sabotage, and radioed information on Japanese military activities and troop strength in Thailand to the Allies in Sri Lanka (Ceylon).

The Thai government was given an offer they couldn't refuse* by the Japanese, who were headed to Burma from China, but I wouldn't say Thailand 'colluded" with the Japanese.

* Basically, declare war on the Allies, or else!

That "offer they couldn't refuse" was the same one given to Belgium, Holland, Denmark etc. wasn't it? Somehow those nations did refuse.

And no, Thailand did not collude with the Japanese: they joined them and became full allies and declared war on the western nations, even to the surprise of the Japanese!

That underground anti-Japanaese resistance was the Seri Thai, the best equipped, best communicating, best organized, best supported, and least effective of all anti-Axis resistance forces in all of World War II. They did radio information about bomb targets and damage reports, and rescued a few downed airmen, but caused no damage to the Japanese forces whatsoever.

Oh, I wasn't aware that the Japanese had occupied Belgium, Holland, Denmark etc in WW II. Thanks for schooling me on that one.

The Thai Ambassador to the UK delivered a declaration of war to London, but a declaration was not forwarded to Washington by the equivalent Thai Ambassador. And yeah, maybe the Thai government (not necessarily the same as the Thai people, perhaps even you would agree) did help the Japanese; what would you have done? Fought against them?

And one of the reasons for helping the Japanese was to try to regain some Thai territory that had previously been annexed by Burma. Apparently, by the end of the war the Thai people at large were firmly anti-Japanese.

[GAZZPA]

I have noticed this, the fact that Nazi memorabilia is sold throughout the country should tell you that they have no idea. I was at an auction last week and they were selling a hitler statue (well head bust), who in their right mind would buy such a thing? Well, they did.

About a year or 2 ago a Thai University painted a "superhero" mural on the side of a University wall. it had pictures of Superman, Spiderman, Batman and yes,, Adolf Hitler. The University hit the press and the Governors publicly apologised for the inclusion of a picture of Hitler,, but Thais do not understand what the fuss was all about.

Most Thais have no idea despite the Japanese occupation of Thailand during WW2.

A part of Thai history never taught and trying to forget I guess.

[GAZZPA]

Given Thailand's collusion with Japan during WW2 it is probably no surprise that the subject is not spoken about in Thai schools.

Umm, you sure? There's a small museum in Phrae dedicated to the memory of the Thai underground anti-Japanese resistance in WW II. They taught British and American intel agents how to survive in SE Asian jungles, engaged in anti-Japanese sabotage, and radioed information on Japanese military activities and troop strength in Thailand to the Allies in Sri Lanka (Ceylon).

The Thai government was given an offer they couldn't refuse* by the Japanese, who were headed to Burma from China, but I wouldn't say Thailand 'colluded" with the Japanese.

* Basically, declare war on the Allies, or else!

That "offer they couldn't refuse" was the same one given to Belgium, Holland, Denmark etc. wasn't it? Somehow those nations did refuse.

And no, Thailand did not collude with the Japanese: they joined them and became full allies and declared war on the western nations, even to the surprise of the Japanese!

That underground anti-Japanaese resistance was the Seri Thai, the best equipped, best communicating, best organized, best supported, and least effective of all anti-Axis resistance forces in all of World War II. They did radio information about bomb targets and damage reports, and rescued a few downed airmen, but caused no damage to the Japanese forces whatsoever.

Oh, I wasn't aware that the Japanese had occupied Belgium, Holland, Denmark etc in WW II. Thanks for schooling me on that one.

The Thai Ambassador to the UK delivered a declaration of war to London, but a declaration was not forwarded to Washington by the equivalent Thai Ambassador. And yeah, maybe the Thai government (not necessarily the same as the Thai people, perhaps even you would agree) did help the Japanese; what would you have done? Fought against them?

And one of the reasons for helping the Japanese was to try to regain some Thai territory that had previously been annexed by Burma. Apparently, by the end of the war the Thai people at large were firmly anti-Japanese.

Yes, they should have fought the Japanese, the English fought the Germans, the Vietnamese fought the Americans,, why would the Thais not join the Allied forces and fight the Japanese?

Instead they did a deal, supported the Japanese and in return were allowed to maintain their own government (anything so they can maintain their stance of never being colonised). it is only when the Aliied forces started to win that Thailand took a turn and requested the Japanese to leave.

[GAZZPA]

Still doesn't explain why the Hitler memorabilia is such a hit in thailand….swastikas, SS outfits…maybe they thought WW2 was some sort of cosplay situation.

I think it does - the west sees it as symbols of a war in Europe whereas in Asia the connection is less obvious - especially as the governments in Thailand leading up to the war were particularly fond of fascism.

In UK punk used Nazi paraphernalia as a protest or at least a provocative statement and there are many people in Thailand who may naively consider irt some kind of off-beat fashion statement too.

However the war in Europe was and is a long way off - to them the war was a period for most of the time Japan was an ally - not even a colonial master as in China but an ally that allowed the government and armed forces to stay in place.

For Europeans (not Americans) the dates for the start of WW2 centre around 1939...but in Asia Japn started to invade China in 1931 and all-out war by 1937.........yet so many Europeans are happy to use 1939 as a "start date"....even the end of the war is not really the end even in Europe, but this is never considered by most who really cling to the TV/Movie histories they have been fed by a biased media for the last 7 decades

in the West we expect everyone to know about the war in Europe when it is the war in Asia that had some of the greatest casualties and the most long term detrimental effects. Really this perception is not the result of Thai ignorance so much as Euro-centric ignorance by expats.

What a crock. Rarely have I read such utter waffle.

Yes there were some related battles before WW2 officially started but the reality is that Japan surrendered in 1945, look it up. it is absolutely Thai ignorance that they are not even aware of WW2, especially as the Japanese were occupying their country! When ever do military forces occupy another country in mass if not during War Time,, so please get real!

"The surrender of the Empire of Japan was announced by Imperial Japan on August 15and formally signed on September 2, 1945, bringing the hostilities of World War II to a close."

[little mary sunshine]

"It will be like trying to feed hay to a dead horse"

[Emster23]

Hard to expect Thais to know about Hitler, when they don't have a clue regarding Che Guevara who was so popular last few years (as a design). I would suggest film "Railway Man" over "Bridge", which seemed to portray only whites worked on railway & bridge, and was shot in Sri Lanka.

My ex went to special school for gifted here so I asked "What did they teach you about WW2?" She said "America very bad for dropping atomic bomb on Japan". Ok..... "Did they ever explain WHY USA dropped the bombs?"

[how241]

Morakot, on 08 Mar 2016 - 16:56, said:

kannot, on 08 Mar 2016 - 15:20, said:

I dont think many people even in the West realise Russias losses in the war and the fact Europe was just a side show for the Germans

The Fallen of World War II

https://vimeo.com/128373915

An animated data-driven documentary about war and peace, The Fallen of World War II looks at the human cost of the second World War and sizes up the numbers to other wars in history, including trends in recent conflicts.

Well-worth watching the entire 18 minutes!

Thanks for the video link. Very interesting and easy to watch.

[DrTuner]

Tell them it's when Thainess was born. The blank stare can last for hours, you can even go to have a lunch in between and the synapses are still not firing.

[sgtsabai]

I think many younger Thais don't know much if anything about WWII, then again there was a soap opera some years back that featured WWII and I saw a movie on tv that featured Thais fight the Japanese in the underground. Also never forget Uncle Ho was in Thailand for some time and not far from where I live. He helped those that turned against him later to fight the Japanese. I'm fortunate enough to know my wife's grandfather who was born back when this part of Thailand was Lao. A very good mind, and one can still see the power in that wasting body. He knows WWII, knows it pretty well as he fought it. He is damn proud of never giving in and being part of the underground (terrorists these days). I told my wife, who is pretty well educated, intelligent and able to understand, well enough to know she never wanted/wants to go to the states, that he was a walking history book and somebody needs to do an oral history with him before he dies. She said, we've all heard his stories and don't need to hear anymore. Arrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!! I will not say what organization he belonged to but if you know Thai WWII you will know who fought back, they damn sure weren't red or yellow shirts. I had flunked all the other family interviews, believe it, I'm honest and that didn't go over well, and grandpapa was the last and only hope. He looked me deep and for what seemed like an eternity in the eyes, smiled, said I know him, same me, he is warrior. Damn sure made me proud. I think a lot more is known about WWII, at least among those born before, during or right after than they let on. BTW, official American history is full of crap and yes we did learn WWI and WWII when I was in school. (Ahem, we didn't win it by ourselves) Then again I was born during last days of WWII.

[kinmaew]

I have no time for war memorials, for what? Tell me what have we learnt from war? We are still making the SAME mistakes, mankind never changes and we still have constant conflict around the world. No need to go to a memorial, just look around the world today.

[marko kok prong]

The limit of my ex's and her family and village knowledge stopped at what was to eat,who was shagging who,she admitted she only voted for Thaksin because she got 200 b ,had no clue about his policies,new nothing of any history,except Thailand was the greatest country in the world,and could beat any other,she watched the news,but when something about syria,or something outside Thailand came up,no interest.Compare this to my friend in the Philippines,who not only can i have a proper conversation with,but knows about Syria,the refugee crisis in Europe,ww2,and heaps of stuff,her biggest dream is to travel,where as my ex mrs refused to ever leave Thailand[mainly due to the panic of no som tam],my freind in the phillippines comes from a poor family,but her EDUCATION has been so much better,and this is the crux of the matter the crazy face saving,and lack of a decent education,Thailand has and never will do anything but sit in it's own insular bubble as the rest of southeast asia draws further and further ahead and away,and the main reason for this they have better educated and informed populations,who actually want to learn about the outside world, i mean my local immigration office has no one who can speak good English,the immigration office.!!!!

[ozyjon]

Who cares, on the other hand what's for lunch.

I studied ancient and modern history in high

school, like i said, what's for lunch.

[GAZZPA]

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

Perhaps the answer to that questions is found in the various versions of the following quote

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

That's why you've got Thais running around using the Nazi symbol and such for pop culture or business purposes -- because they have no idea what it means, or what occurred under those banners.

Perhaps that's also why some countries end up with a succession of failed governments and military dictators, because they never learn from past history that such things usually end badly for their people.

But hey, why pay attention to history, why look back at where we've been and how we got to where we are today. That's just complicated, boring old stuff... We really don't want to focus too much on what's gone on the past 85 years or so.

"“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

which is precisely what the USA is trying to do now.

exactly how are the USA "precisely" repeating past mistakes?

[GAZZPA]

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

Perhaps the answer to that questions is found in the various versions of the following quote

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

That's why you've got Thais running around using the Nazi symbol and such for pop culture or business purposes -- because they have no idea what it means, or what occurred under those banners.

Perhaps that's also why some countries end up with a succession of failed governments and military dictators, because they never learn from past history that such things usually end badly for their people.

But hey, why pay attention to history, why look back at where we've been and how we got to where we are today. That's just complicated, boring old stuff... We really don't want to focus too much on what's gone on the past 85 years or so.

"“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

which is precisely what the USA is trying to do now.

exactly how are the USA "precisely" repeating past mistakes?

[yardrunner]

There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse .

True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND...

I started secondary school in England in 1958 and left in 1963 and one of the teachers their started teaching the second world war as history in 1961 and he was the first teacher to do it. Why because for many teachers at the time to them it was not history but their recent past and those who had served in the armed forces quite often did not want to talk about their experiences

[RikDao]

Lol. Speaking of the English, they abandoned British-occupied Burma to the Japanese, who in turn slaughtered thousands of unarmed Burmese on their way to the coast. England heroically fought the Germans, yeah, but the Thais would've been slaughtered by the Japanese. Better to make a deal with them in order to survive the war and avoid unnecessary suffering for the population. Speaking of which strategy, isn't that kind of what the French government did in WW II?

(Not putting down the French here; they had a very courageous and effective unofficial armed resistance, as we all know).

[Dogmatix]

No WW2 is not taught in Thai history lessons. The Thai collaboration with the Japanese and the Thai invasions of Cambodia, Malaya and Burma with Japanese encouragement to regain territory taken by the Brits and the French seem too complicated to explain and it is easier to omit them. They seem to just teach about King Ramkhamhaeng, the wars against the Burmese and the founding of Chakri dynasty dynasty. Some of it doesn't seem to be verifiable and may be mythological. A Chula history professor was ousted as president of the Siam Society for writing a paper suggesting that King Ramkhamhaeng never existed and the stone is a 19th century forgery (Western scholars agree with the latter point). Nothing much is taught about the history of Thai politics in the 20th century and the minimal amount that is seems largely spurious or distorted.

Just take her to Kanchanaburi and show her the museum and watch the look of horror on her face. Then the questions will start to roll out. Worked for my wife.

[jomcondo]

probably can't understand why foreigners don't let go of things.

remembering something that happened 70+ years ago

[sead]

If its a gf then change gf. If friends then change friends.Thailand is not a place for Intellectual conversations. First time i met an intellectual , after 3 years was in Central Pattaya 5th floor restaurant. Where the gayboy showing us the table asked where i was from, I said Serbia and he said. Yes i know Serbia. before Jugoslavia and now Croatia, Slovenia etc. He knew everything about it. For me that was a blast.

[RikDao]

The limit of my ex's and her family and village knowledge stopped at what was to eat,who was shagging who,she admitted she only voted for Thaksin because she got 200 b ,had no clue about his policies,new nothing of any history,except Thailand was the greatest country in the world,and could beat any other,she watched the news,but when something about syria,or something outside Thailand came up,no interest.Compare this to my friend in the Philippines,who not only can i have a proper conversation with,but knows about Syria,the refugee crisis in Europe,ww2,and heaps of stuff,her biggest dream is to travel,where as my ex mrs refused to ever leave Thailand[mainly due to the panic of no som tam],my freind in the phillippines comes from a poor family,but her EDUCATION has been so much better,and this is the crux of the matter the crazy face saving,and lack of a decent education,Thailand has and never will do anything but sit in it's own insular bubble as the rest of southeast asia draws further and further ahead and away,and the main reason for this they have better educated and informed populations,who actually want to learn about the outside world, i mean my local immigration office has no one who can speak good English,the immigration office.!!!!

"Nobody speaks English at the immigration office? Gee, too bad!" is what many Thais are thinking, and likely saying out loud amongst themselves.Could it possibly be that, unbelievable as it may sound, they're getting tired of us being here? Perish the thought!

Honestly, many of them are sick to death of farangs who come here and constantly denigrate them and their society. Don't think they're not aware of it.

"Don't like it here? Move to Guatemala! Likely you'll be begging to come back here within six months. Can't afford to live in your home country? Don't blame us!"

[BookMan]

If its a gf then change gf. If friends then change friends.Thailand is not a place for Intellectual conversations. First time i met an intellectual , after 3 years was in Central Pattaya 5th floor restaurant. Where the gayboy showing us the table asked where i was from, I said Serbia and he said. Yes i know Serbia. before Jugoslavia and now Croatia, Slovenia etc. He knew everything about it. For me that was a blast.

Having a friend ask why you are going somewhere and attempting to explain why is hardly an intellectual conversation.

Should i be talking about Kitty, Pooh, Minnie, Noodles, som Tum and spicy?

[NumbNut]

I was... ....but a few years earlier....That Ford GT40 was really something...

Still is Trans... sex on four wheels.

[Capt Rob]

I was at school in the UK in the 50's and 60's...No mention of WW2...

In Ubon on remembrance day we have a huge celebration totally funded by the Town..Brass band the whole nine yards. Flags of all the allies are flying, NOT the aggressors.

Ubon folk of the period took care of our chaps on release of our lads from the Japs....Worth seeing if anyone is in the area......We do not forget..........

PS..I didn't even know my dad was a Warrant Officer Class 1 (Sgt.Major) until his funeral in 2009, he never talked about it..I was given his Sgt.Major sleeve badge then...

A lot of service personnel internalized their issues from wartime experiences for a number of reasons.

Post war UK particularly in the early 1950's had a lot of bomb damaged sites with vacant blocks and rebuilding still in progress. The war was still very evident, as a young boy I photos of aircraft from all sides. I particularly remember the VE day commeration days.

[mydee]

Lol. Speaking of the English, they abandoned British-occupied Burma to the Japanese, who in turn slaughtered thousands of unarmed Burmese on their way to the coast. England heroically fought the Germans, yeah, but the Thais would've been slaughtered by the Japanese. Better to make a deal with them in order to survive the war and avoid unnecessary suffering for the population. Speaking of which strategy, isn't that kind of what the French government did in WW II?

(Not putting down the French here; they had a very courageous and effective unofficial armed resistance, as we all know).

don't hesitate in condemning the French in WW11 they had far more collaborators than effective armed resistance fighters - Klaus Barbie says Hi

[BookMan]

In answer to the OP; Simple: The US wanted an empire but couldn't beat Britain at sea. They engineered an illegal Asian and European war, and blackmailed a washed out British spokesman (hero in his early days certainly) to be the worst traitor in British history (that's saying something).

This post will probably be deleted because the victors claptrap is still widely held to be the truth despite the palpable absurdity to those who have bothered to check and do not have a vested interest in the establishment.

It's a sad story for us that inherited Churchill's price for hanging on to Chartwell and a place in history. Serving his mother's homeland interests more closely than his father's.

I think FDR was probably the biggest and most successful opportunist in history. Fair play to him; audacious and a winner, wish we'd had one.

I think that is succinct enough for a Thai.

that wasn't too helpful

[englansi]

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

Perhaps the answer to that questions is found in the various versions of the following quote

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

That's why you've got Thais running around using the Nazi symbol and such for pop culture or business purposes -- because they have no idea what it means, or what occurred under those banners.

Perhaps that's also why some countries end up with a succession of failed governments and military dictators, because they never learn from past history that such things usually end badly for their people.

But hey, why pay attention to history, why look back at where we've been and how we got to where we are today. That's just complicated, boring old stuff... We really don't want to focus too much on what's gone on the past 85 years or so.

"“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

― Edmund Burke

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

which is precisely what the USA is trying to do now.

exactly how are the USA "precisely" repeating past mistakes?

I can answer that easily. The RN switched to oil in 1911. The Junkers built a railway to threaten supply. That's WW1 and all the subsequent wars explained.

The US is repeating, not a mistake, but a strategic interest in energy supply. End.

[englansi]

In answer to the OP; Simple: The US wanted an empire but couldn't beat Britain at sea. They engineered an illegal Asian and European war, and blackmailed a washed out British spokesman (hero in his early days certainly) to be the worst traitor in British history (that's saying something).

This post will probably be deleted because the victors claptrap is still widely held to be the truth despite the palpable absurdity to those who have bothered to check and do not have a vested interest in the establishment.

It's a sad story for us that inherited Churchill's price for hanging on to Chartwell and a place in history. Serving his mother's homeland interests more closely than his father's.

I think FDR was probably the biggest and most successful opportunist in history. Fair play to him; audacious and a winner, wish we'd had one.

I think that is succinct enough for a Thai.

that wasn't too helpful

Fair enough.

The US wanted an Empire.

Better?

[soc]

I dont think many people even in the West realise Russias losses in the war and the fact Europe was just a side show for the Germans

lf Europe was "just a side show for the Germans" then pray tell where the Germans' main show was?

Russia's losses were at least 25 million.

[RikDao]

In answer to the OP; Simple: The US wanted an empire but couldn't beat Britain at sea. They engineered an illegal Asian and European war, and blackmailed a washed out British spokesman (hero in his early days certainly) to be the worst traitor in British history (that's saying something).

This post will probably be deleted because the victors claptrap is still widely held to be the truth despite the palpable absurdity to those who have bothered to check and do not have a vested interest in the establishment.

It's a sad story for us that inherited Churchill's price for hanging on to Chartwell and a place in history. Serving his mother's homeland interests more closely than his father's.

I think FDR was probably the biggest and most successful opportunist in history. Fair play to him; audacious and a winner, wish we'd had one.

I think that is succinct enough for a Thai.

Hmm, interesting opinion, stated as if it were fact.

Forgive me, I'm not British, I'm American, and I don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not denying what you say, don't get me wrong, and I'm not criticizing. I just really, really don't know what the deuce you're on about. Like, how was Churchill a traitor, again? For fighting the Germans? Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe Hitler knew Churchill was being blackmailed (for what, exactly? I have no idea), which might explain Dunkirk?

[RikDao]

I dont think many people even in the West realise Russias losses in the war and the fact Europe was just a side show for the Germans

lf Europe was "just a side show for the Germans" then pray tell where the Germans' main show was?

Russia's losses were at least 25 million.

I'm getting confused. Isn't the guy saying Russia was the main show for the Germans? Stopping communism and all that...