How to explain World War 2 to a Thai person

[englansi]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

It doesn't even go into any detail of the profound importance of the Balfour declaration or the reality of the Lusitania sinking, much less the jostling over Mesopotamia which is the linchpin of the story. Victor red herring claptrap to disguise the reality of ... oh never-mind. They won convincingly, both the war and the propaganda. To this day.

The pop version of history for people who want to eat cake only.

Those who rely solely on TV and movies for their history will NEVER get the whole picture.....to do that you need to read and be guided by teachers...there are no shortcuts to understanding.

And you are that teacher I suppose. I have seen a few of your condescending posts now, clearly you fancy yourself as a well read intellectual, and you seem to believe that no other person in the Western World can possible understand the details of WW2 like you because you have lived here so long you are enlightened, everyone else is clueless in your eyes.

Total crap, you disastrously underestimate other peoples intelligence in this matter and accuse the West as being blind to the truth,, dear oh dear.

You cannot see the obvious fact that people are poorly educated (here) in this matter, despite all your years living in an "enlightened state", very strange. Wood for the trees perhaps? Polluted and lost the ability to think laterally? Feel the need to defend the locals? Maybe, who knows and who cares, enjoy your reading.

How bizarre? You added things he didn't say or allude to and create your own offence. Well played, own goal.

[big carl]

It would probably help if you had a giant world map like they hang on the wall and you could show the area it covered and the countries involved in it. She probably understands what war is after all Thailand has a history of it. She just can not grasp the size of it.

[trainman34014]

There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse .

True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND...

Don't really understand that; i was at school in England in the 50's and WW1+WW2 were talked about almost every day, often by teachers who had taken part in them or had family that had. Also; it was the topic of many conversations in my family, particularly at times when the family got together, as all the men and some of the women had participated right back to The Somme.

[thaihome]

Most Thais today understanding of WW2 comes from the book, film, and series "Sunset at Chaoprya" which is fairly accurate from a historical perspective.

Japan did indeed invade Thailand in 1941 in preparation for assaults on both Burma aND Malaya. The landings were opposed in all cases for less then one day until Phibun made his deal. This is of course 44 days less then France held out until Petain made his deal with Hitler.

Worth noting that France not only fought against the Allies on several occasions, but sent more Jews to the gas chambers then Brits/Commonwealth soldiers died on the Burma railway.

For some reason, Churchill was very upset with Thailand delivering the declaration of war against the UK and wanted severe reparations after Japan surrendered. But he never held a grudge against France and sent UK troops to Vietnam to make sure Uncle Ho did not succeed in setting up a independent country. We all know how that turned out.

Have noticed that many Brite degenerate Thailand's role in WW2,but are completely ignorant of France's role and how the UK made sure France was able to reclaim their colonies when the war was over.

TH

Edited March 9, 2016 by thaihome

[Stevemercer]

Those who do not know or learn from their history are doomed to repeat the mistakes from the past over and over. Sound familiar? The great thing about a good education is that we can collectively learn from the mistakes of many, and not just our own experiences.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The problem here is that the average Thai person, especially not the older ones, seems to know fairly little about their own country's actual history, beyond the family of the current king and a few famous prior kings and such.

The history of past wars and conflicts involving Thailand (and its predecessor states), how and why the country's geography and hegemony has changed in the past, the past role of autocrats and military rulers -- all that seems pretty well unfamiliar to the average Thai citizen. And, double or triple that when it comes to history pertaining to things outside Thailand.

In that context, and I've had these attempted kinds of discussions in the past, it becomes pretty much impossible to explain to the average Thai person about the meaning of and impact of World War II. And more to the point, they generally speaking don't seem particularly interested to understand or see any reason to care.

To be interested in world history, you have to kind of care about the world around you, and understand your place in it is part of a broader fabric of which everyone is a part. In my experience here, apart from the most rudimentary self-interest issues, Thais don't seem to particularly care about the general goings on in the world around them.

Edited March 9, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[siamcrut]

The problem here is that the average Thai person, especially not the older ones, seems to know fairly little about their own country's actual history, beyond the family of the current king and a few famous prior kings and such.

The history of past wars and conflicts involving Thailand (and its predecessor states), how and why the country's geography and hegemony has changed in the past, the past role of autocrats and military rulers -- all that seems pretty well unfamiliar to the average Thai citizen. And, double or triple that when it comes to history pertaining to things outside Thailand.

In that context, and I've had these attempted kinds of discussions in the past, it becomes pretty much impossible to explain to the average Thai person about the meaning of and impact of World War II. And more to the point, they generally speaking don't seem particularly interested to understand or see any reason to care.

To be interested in world history, you have to kind of care about the world around you, and understand your place in it is part of a broader fabric of which everyone is a part. In my experience here, apart from the most rudimentary self-interest issues, Thais don't seem to particularly care about the general goings on in the world around them.

Spot on!

[BookMan]

.

To be interested in world history, you have to kind of care about the world around you, and understand your place in it is part of a broader fabric of which everyone is a part. In my experience here, apart from the most rudimentary self-interest issues, Thais don't seem to particularly care about the general goings on in the world around them.

I am noticing this a little bit more

[Boycie]

Loads of great documentaries on youtube regarding world war 2. Best way to explain it is to watch some with her.

Do they have subtitles in Thai? or are they dubbed?

Did you not notice that I said watch with her.

Why would they have to be in Thai or dubbed?

I'm pretty sure the English speaking OP can explain it to her if she is unable to understand English, but by the OP stating she is educated and intelligent I'm sure she can understand spoken English considering he has already been trying to explain it to her.

Always has to be at least one foolish comment in every topic, and yours seems to be that one.

As someone who has taught at Thai universities I can tell you that most students do not have the language skills to explain historical theory in fact I'd say that most expats don't either, in their own language, let alone in Thai.

There's even English subtitles for those of us that have no knowledge of the Thai language.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Boycie

[thaihome]

The problem here is that the average Thai person, especially not the older ones, seems to know fairly little about their own country's actual history, beyond the family of the current king and a few famous prior kings and such.

The history of past wars and conflicts involving Thailand (and its predecessor states), how and why the country's geography and hegemony has changed in the past, the past role of autocrats and military rulers -- all that seems pretty well unfamiliar to the average Thai citizen. And, double or triple that when it comes to history pertaining to things outside Thailand.

In that context, and I've had these attempted kinds of discussions in the past, it becomes pretty much impossible to explain to the average Thai person about the meaning of and impact of World War II. And more to the point, they generally speaking don't seem particularly interested to understand or see any reason to care.

To be interested in world history, you have to kind of care about the world around you, and understand your place in it is part of a broader fabric of which everyone is a part. In my experience here, apart from the most rudimentary self-interest issues, Thais don't seem to particularly care about the general goings on in the world around them.

I suggest you go into a pub in the UK and ask anyone under the age of 30 if the know the real family name of their royal family.

If they know that ask them how many wars English kings fought against themselves and other royal houses of Europe.

TH

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not British, so I'm not one to opine on that subject.

But perhaps a better question for this thread would be to ask the following question of under 30 UK pub goers:

Tell me what you know about World War II and the role Britain played in it...

I'm guessing (hoping) you'd generate somewhat more knowledge than asking the comparable question to a comparable group of Thais... But... maybe not!

[cyberfarang]

Regardless whether people believe in Christ or not, ask any Christian Thais if they know about the life story of Jesus, the political situation that involved the Romans at the time and events that led up to his crucifixion. You will find most don`t have a clue, they will answer, Jesus was a good man and the rest goes beyond their understanding.

These days young Thais think Aldolf Hitler is a Disney cartoon character who appears on tee shirts. Asking Thais about historic events, forget it. Most are not interest anyway, not even about their own history. Also Thais know nothing about their own family histories. Usually about grandparent levels then after that have no idea. They are born, end of story.

[Dumbastheycome]

Most Thais today understanding of WW2 comes from the book, film, and series "Sunset at Chaoprya" which is fairly accurate from a historical perspective.

Japan did indeed invade Thailand in 1941 in preparation for assaults on both Burma aND Malaya. The landings were opposed in all cases for less then one day until Phibun made his deal. This is of course 44 days less then France held out until Petain made his deal with Hitler.

Worth noting that France not only fought against the Allies on several occasions, but sent more Jews to the gas chambers then Brits/Commonwealth soldiers died on the Burma railway.

For some reason, Churchill was very upset with Thailand delivering the declaration of war against the UK and wanted severe reparations after Japan surrendered. But he never held a grudge against France and sent UK troops to Vietnam to make sure Uncle Ho did not succeed in setting up a independent country. We all know how that turned out.

Have noticed that many Brite degenerate Thailand's role in WW2,but are completely ignorant of France's role and how the UK made sure France was able to reclaim their colonies when the war was over.

TH

And Thailand was never accorded defence because it had refused infiltrations from Europe thus leaving it more or less incapable of defying the Japanese effectively. Not that the colonialized areas did better! Ensuing military action within Thailand was primarily to prevent further incursion into colonialized territory rather than to defend Thailand.

Interestingly that despite that Thailand is viewed as a developing nation with a significantly superior economy when compared to the now de colonialized neighbours. I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

[englansi]

Regardless whether people believe in Christ or not, ask any Christian Thais if they know about the life story of Jesus, the political situation that involved the Romans at the time and events that led up to his crucifixion. You will find most don`t have a clue, they will answer, Jesus was a good man and the rest goes beyond their understanding.

These days young Thais think Aldolf Hitler is a Disney cartoon character who appears on tee shirts. Asking Thais about historic events, forget it. Most are not interest anyway, not even about their own history. Also Thais know nothing about their own family histories. Usually about grandparent levels then after that have no idea. They are born, end of story.

Not quite sure about the relevance of the xian fable in Asia, but if you were to ask the same questions about Siddhartha you'd have about the same response. Just ask them what he would have thought about their pork soup; blank stares.

[englansi]

Most Thais today understanding of WW2 comes from the book, film, and series "Sunset at Chaoprya" which is fairly accurate from a historical perspective.

Japan did indeed invade Thailand in 1941 in preparation for assaults on both Burma aND Malaya. The landings were opposed in all cases for less then one day until Phibun made his deal. This is of course 44 days less then France held out until Petain made his deal with Hitler.

Worth noting that France not only fought against the Allies on several occasions, but sent more Jews to the gas chambers then Brits/Commonwealth soldiers died on the Burma railway.

For some reason, Churchill was very upset with Thailand delivering the declaration of war against the UK and wanted severe reparations after Japan surrendered. But he never held a grudge against France and sent UK troops to Vietnam to make sure Uncle Ho did not succeed in setting up a independent country. We all know how that turned out.

Have noticed that many Brite degenerate Thailand's role in WW2,but are completely ignorant of France's role and how the UK made sure France was able to reclaim their colonies when the war was over.

TH

And Thailand was never accorded defence because it had refused infiltrations from Europe thus leaving it more or less incapable of defying the Japanese effectively. Not that the colonialized areas did better! Ensuing military action within Thailand was primarily to prevent further incursion into colonialized territory rather than to defend Thailand.

Interestingly that despite that Thailand is viewed as a developing nation with a significantly superior economy when compared to the now de colonialized neighbours. I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

What on earth are you babbling about? This makes no sense whatsoever. Particularly from an historical point of view, never mind the phrasing.

If you want to find a more relevant anomaly from WW2, have a close look at the contribution of the Netherlands.

[jacky54]

I suggest you go into a pub in the UK and ask anyone under the age of 30 if the know the real family name of their royal family.

If they know that ask them how many wars English kings fought against themselves and other royal houses of Europe.

TH

The customers would be mostly Poles, Indians and African though!

[jacky54]

I suggest you go into a pub in the UK and ask anyone under the age of 30 if the know the real family name of their royal family.

If they know that ask them how many wars English kings fought against themselves and other royal houses of Europe.

TH

The customers would be mostly Poles, Indians and African though!

[thaihome]

...I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

Or take Italy that managed to be on both sides of both world wars. ?

TH

[englansi]

...I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

Or take Italy that managed to be on both sides of both world wars. ?

TH

Fascinating. Please tell me which battles they engaged in on the central powers side in 1914?

[mauGR1]

...I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

Or take Italy that managed to be on both sides of both world wars. ?

TH

Nope, just the WW2.

Some interesting posts here.

I wonder how Europeans can explain WW2 to Thais, when obviously many of us have no clue, after more than 70 years.

For everyone interested in history, " History is written by the winners ", is a good place to start... Once you understand the concept, there is enough to be at least suspicious of every history.

[thaihome]

...I find it a strange mind set that Thailand is supposed to feel grateful/obligated for the outcome while Switzerland and the Irish Repubic who remained neutral in WW2 have suffered little condemnation.

Or take Italy that managed to be on both sides of both world wars. ?

TH

Fascinating. Please tell me which battles they engaged in on the central powers side in 1914?

You will note I did not say "fought" on both sides. Italy was a full fledged member of the central powers at the out break of WW1 and was expected to join the war, but after year long negotiations formally entered on the side of the Allies and attacked Austria to gain territory.

My ex-wife's grandfather was a recent immigrant to the US from Italy and jumped on a boat when war broke out to fight with Austria, by the time he got there he ended up fighting against Austria. According to her he found that very confusing for the rest of his life. Worked out ok for him as they let him back into the US at the end of war. Something he did not expect happen when left.

TH

Edited March 9, 2016 by thaihome

[smotherb]

just don't try.

thais had their own bit of trouble with the vietnam incident.

ww2 happened 80 years ago, time to let go and focus on stuff happening today.

for you and me - involved or directly related to people involved, this might be different.

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

History and geography are two of the most misunderstood subjects--well what a line of feces. So are reading, writing, and speaking; not to mention math, science, and even social studies.

I keep thinking of George Carlin, "Think of how dumb the average person is; then realize half of them are dumber than that." People are dumb and they don't care.

However, I know Thais and farangs--even Brits--who are knowledgeable, but not many. Some people even think WWII started in 1939--or as you say, 80 years ago.

[jesimps]

There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse .

True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND...

I was at school in Liverpool in the 50s and we got plenty of wartime history, 1st and 2nd. Maybe it's because we received loads of bombings. "Those Germans bombed our chip shop!"

[jesimps]

The truth of the matter is that many of the expats and nearly ALL of the tourists I speak to have absolutely no idea of what happened in this region during the second world war.....it even includes those who fought here..........most Europeans see the WW2 as a European affair and conveniently forget it was even at the time at least by the end called a WORLD war.

When it comes to the details of deaths and casualties most westerners have a lamentably lop-sided perspective - and that even includes US troops stationed out here....as for the "bridge over the River Kwai" - that was a movie based on a novel by a Frenchman with the name of the river changed by the local thai authorities and the bridge in the wrong location.......

Yes, there were huge numbers who lost their lives there - mostly Asian forced labourers - whilst not denying the sacrifice of the allied troops lets also try to get the facts straight ourselves before criticising those who were, for one reason or another, on the "other" side for not having the same perspective as a westerner of the conflicts of the 1930s and 40s....and after..........

Oh jeez, have to get the flail out again. I've only just put it away after the last self-scourging session.

[cyberfarang]

I suggest you go into a pub in the UK and ask anyone under the age of 30 if the know the real family name of their royal family.

If they know that ask them how many wars English kings fought against themselves and other royal houses of Europe.

TH

The customers would be mostly Poles, Indians and African though!

[citzofwrld]

Only old Americans know anything about WW2, because they fought in one of the theaters, watched movie newsreels, read newspapers and listened to the radio during that era. Much of what they were told was myths, lies and exaggerations. There's a reason why WW2 documents have been sealed for 100 years. To give the allied war criminals time to die off. Today's generation of Americans don't care about WW2 anymore then they care about what is really going on at home and abroad. What they hear during 15 seconds of news watching as they are running out the door to work is enough for them. Many American kids believe, the U.S and Germany fought against Russia. Good luck with enlightening the Thai.

[cyberfarang]

just don't try.

thais had their own bit of trouble with the vietnam incident.

ww2 happened 80 years ago, time to let go and focus on stuff happening today.

for you and me - involved or directly related to people involved, this might be different.

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

History and geography are two of the most misunderstood subjects--well what a line of feces. So are reading, writing, and speaking; not to mention math, science, and even social studies.

I keep thinking of George Carlin, "Think of how dumb the average person is; then realize half of them are dumber than that." People are dumb and they don't care.

However, I know Thais and farangs--even Brits--who are knowledgeable, but not many. Some people even think WWII started in 1939--or as you say, 80 years ago.

WW1 started in 1917 and WW2 started in 1941. It`s true, ask any American and they don`t lie.

To most of the Thai population in Thailand during the war the Japanese occupation was just a minor irritation and most did not realise or cared that we were at war at all. Even back then they found ways of making money, passing food over the wires to Australian and British POWs for a price. It`s true, it`s all written in the history books. There were some Thai resistance fighters fighting with the allied forces not on behalf of Thailand, but many more collaborated with the Japanese. This is why there have been very few Thai war films and is a topic they would rather not mention. Probably the reason why Thais are not educated about WW2. Maybe it`s best not to know what granddad did in the war.

[tomyumchai]

There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse .

True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND...

they didnt mention it in the 70's either. i did learn about anglo saxons and the romans...... and 3 crop rotations.....

[JusMe]

Oh, I wasn't aware that the Japanese had occupied Belgium, Holland, Denmark etc in WW II. Thanks for schooling me on that one.

The Thai Ambassador to the UK delivered a declaration of war to London, but a declaration was not forwarded to Washington by the equivalent Thai Ambassador. And yeah, maybe the Thai government (not necessarily the same as the Thai people, perhaps even you would agree) did help the Japanese; what would you have done? Fought against them?

You obviously need schooling on reading a simple statement in English. Notice those quotation marks on "offer they couldn't refuse"?

And your comment regarding the ambassador in English not forwarding a declaration of war from London to Washington? What absurdity! Perhaps they should have declared war in Saniago or Cuba? Declarations of war do not need forwarding from anywhere to anywhere else.

In the early part of the war, the government was supported by the Thai people, particularly during the Thai-French battles before WWII. The Thai newspapers glorified Thailand's participation. Yes, I have read those newspapers.

Try learning something from original papers.

[JusMe]

Get the movie Bridge on the River Kwaai with Thai sub titles sorted

That's not a bad idea. Many Thais died working on that railroad system.

Bridge on the River Kwai is complete fiction. Fabulous movie, but dreadful history. Not even filmed in Thailand.

As for the Thais who died working on the railroad system - total rubbish. No Thais worked building the railway. Many many other Asians, yes, but absolutely NO Thais were used or employed building the railway.