Advice Needed Regarding Parental Rights/Travelling To UK

[stoneyboy]

Ok so a little background information to start with.

After a 6 year relationship we have decided it for the best that we separate,the reasons for this are to numerous to mention so I won't go into detail,the reason for my post is not based on revealing the downfalls anyway.

The question in hand basically relates to my returning to Thailand next week to take my daughter who is approaching 3 years old in June to live with me in the UK.

My ex girlfriend at the moment after many heated arguments via Skype etc has verbally agreed that if I return to Thailand next week I can take custody of our daughter.

Firstly we have never been married but I have petitioned the court with the cooperation of my girlfriend at the time and have legitimised the birth so that I am the legal father.

Unfortunately I never got around to organising a British passport for my daughter so my biggest issue is once I return to Thailand I will need to do so.

She currently has a Thai passport though,but I imagine it is preferred for her to obtain a British passport to travel to the UK with me as opposed to entering the UK on a Thai passport is this in fact the case.

Can she legally enter the UK on a Thai passport and obtain citizenship once here or is that a no no,simply to avoid waiting in Thailand for a British passport minimising time and cost ?

If I have to obtain the UK passport do I need her mothers consent,her mothers birth certificate,ID card etc,after searching the forum it seems to be hit and miss like in most instances.

Will I also need a letter from her mother consenting that my daughter can travel to the UK with me.

[stoneyboy]

Could one of the moderators move this to the visa/migration forum for possibly more response.

[metisdead]

Could one of the moderators move this to the visa/migration forum for possibly more response.

Moved to the Visas and migration to other countries forum.

[bobrussell]

Are you named on the birth certificate? If you are then you should apply for a British passport as there is no further need to show nationality. With a British passport there is no need to worry about a visa but permission is likely to be required from the mother.

If you are not on the birth certificate, you need to provide evidence of paternity. That level is beyond my knowledge!!

[stoneyboy]

Are you named on the birth certificate? If you are then you should apply for a British passport as there is no further need to show nationality. With a British passport there is no need to worry about a visa but permission is likely to be required from the mother.

If you are not on the birth certificate, you need to provide evidence of paternity. That level is beyond my knowledge!!

Yes I am named as the father on the Thai birth certificate.

[sunnyjim5]

The child can travel on her Thai passport if you obtain an appropriate UK visa for the child which allows entry to the UK

There is no visa that I am aware of that allows (of itself) direct access to citizenship.

You should seek the advice of a professional immigration lawyer/agent.

[stoneyboy]

The child can travel on her Thai passport if you obtain an appropriate UK visa for the child which allows entry to the UK

There is no visa that I am aware of that allows (of itself) direct access to citizenship.

You should seek the advice of a professional immigration lawyer/agent.

Yes I understand that if I obtain a visa in Bangkok for her Thai passport that she will be granted entry to the UK.

But she will be staying permanently with me in the UK after arrival,she is British by descent,would it then be possible while in the UK to register her with the relevant authorities and obtain a British passport etc for future travel.

She will in essence be on overstay on her Thai passport will she not,that is the part I don't understand even though she has rights to British citizenship.

I assume the correct way is to obtain a British passport before we travel to avoid the above situation.

A British passport holder has the right to abode in the UK unless the passport otherwise states.

Edited March 11, 2016 by stoneyboy

[whiterussian]

would it then be possible while in the UK to register her with the relevant authorities and obtain a British passport etc for future travel.

I don't think so...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/552969-british-citizenship-basics/?p=8648212

Get a copy of your long form birth cert while in the UK https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

You'll need a countersignature from a Brit on the passport application too (or EU, but that delays it)

Also a good read: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694440-getting-a-uk-passport-for-my-newborn-half-thai-child/?p=7277248

Good luck

[sunnyjim5]

The child can travel on her Thai passport if you obtain an appropriate UK visa for the child which allows entry to the UK

There is no visa that I am aware of that allows (of itself) direct access to citizenship.

You should seek the advice of a professional immigration lawyer/agent.

Yes I understand that if I obtain a visa in Bangkok for her Thai passport that she will be granted entry to the UK.

But she will be staying permanently with me in the UK after arrival,she is British by descent,would it then be possible while in the UK to register her with the relevant authorities and obtain a British passport etc for future travel.

She will in essence be on overstay on her Thai passport will she not,that is the part I don't understand even though she has rights to British citizenship.

I assume the correct way is to obtain a British passport before we travel to avoid the above situation.

A British passport holder has the right to abode in the UK unless the passport otherwise states.

You are in Serious need of Professional advice.

Moving young children around the World is not simple or without risk

Edited March 11, 2016 by sunnyjim5

[stoneyboy]

would it then be possible while in the UK to register her with the relevant authorities and obtain a British passport etc for future travel.

I don't think so...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/552969-british-citizenship-basics/?p=8648212

Get a copy of your long form birth cert while in the UK https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

You'll need a countersignature from a Brit on the passport application too (or EU, but that delays it)

Also a good read: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694440-getting-a-uk-passport-for-my-newborn-half-thai-child/?p=7277248

Good luck

Thanks for the links and the advice.

I have all the relevant paperwork long form birth certificate etc and a retired police officer friend for the counter signature in Thailand so it looks like I shall do what I guessed I needed to do and apply for a British passport for my daughter.

Time and money aren't really a problem as I have the assistance of my family from the UK who are prepared to travel with me and afford me the necessary assistance to ensure my daughter has a better future with us in the UK as opposed to Thai village life.

Thanks again.

[whiterussian]

Looks like there is an option on a Thai passport too - I don't know much about it. Might be faster?

Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/801724-advise-on-uk-visa-for-son-needed/?p=9250781

see also the post underneath:

When considering whether to apply for a British passport or for a Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode in one's foreign passport, you should be aware of two things:-

1) If you get a C o E in your foreign passport, you can't subsequently be issued with a British Passport, at least until your foreign passport expires. (The validity of the C o E is limited to the validity of the passport). - and ditto if you have a UK ppt, you can't get a CoE in your other one.

2) The C o E gets you waved through at a UK Border Control, but does not confer the benefits of visa-free travel to other countries entitled by a UK passport. So for example a side-trip from the UK to Europe would still require a Schengen visa.

Edited March 11, 2016 by whiterussian

[Richard W]

I can only see four options:

• British passport.
• Visitor's visa
• Settlement visa
• Certificate of entitlement to right of abode

For the passport option, research the current timings. As has been noted, it's the proper way to do things, and might not be the slowest. There may be issues with proof of address for the OP, especially if he cannot be considered resident in Thailand.

The next two options could fail because the daughter's British. If her being British is ignored, then a visitor's visa should be refused unless the OP can convincingly lie that she will return to Thailand. I believe a settlement visa would fail because the OP's claim to have sole responsibility is likely to be rejected. A settlement visa is far and away the most expensive. If either succeeded, the daughter's British passport could then be applied for in slower time.

The CoE to RoA is also legitimate, though more expensive than a passport. Compare the timings. Once the daughter is in Britain, the Thai passport can be replaced once it seems that she would benefit from having a British passport. Once the old Thai passport has been cancelled (or expired beyond hope of extension), a British passport can be applied for. So, research the timings on this option.

[brewsterbudgen]

I can only see four options:

• British passport.
• Visitor's visa
• Settlement visa
• Certificate of entitlement to right of abode

For the passport option, research the current timings. As has been noted, it's the proper way to do things, and might not be the slowest. There may be issues with proof of address for the OP, especially if he cannot be considered resident in Thailand.

The next two options could fail because the daughter's British. If her being British is ignored, then a visitor's visa should be refused unless the OP can convincingly lie that she will return to Thailand. I believe a settlement visa would fail because the OP's claim to have sole responsibility is likely to be rejected. A settlement visa is far and away the most expensive. If either succeeded, the daughter's British passport could then be applied for in slower time.

The CoE to RoA is also legitimate, though more expensive than a passport. Compare the timings. Once the daughter is in Britain, the Thai passport can be replaced once it seems that she would benefit from having a British passport. Once the old Thai passport has been cancelled (or expired beyond hope of extension), a British passport can be applied for. So, research the timings on this option.

Getting a first UK passport in Thailand is quite fast at the moment, as long as you have all the documentation, although it does involve two trips to VFS in Bangkok, unless you use an agent. My son's passport took 2 weeks (over Christmas as well).

[stoneyboy]

I can only see four options:

• British passport.
• Visitor's visa
• Settlement visa
• Certificate of entitlement to right of abode

For the passport option, research the current timings. As has been noted, it's the proper way to do things, and might not be the slowest. There may be issues with proof of address for the OP, especially if he cannot be considered resident in Thailand.

The next two options could fail because the daughter's British. If her being British is ignored, then a visitor's visa should be refused unless the OP can convincingly lie that she will return to Thailand. I believe a settlement visa would fail because the OP's claim to have sole responsibility is likely to be rejected. A settlement visa is far and away the most expensive. If either succeeded, the daughter's British passport could then be applied for in slower time.

The CoE to RoA is also legitimate, though more expensive than a passport. Compare the timings. Once the daughter is in Britain, the Thai passport can be replaced once it seems that she would benefit from having a British passport. Once the old Thai passport has been cancelled (or expired beyond hope of extension), a British passport can be applied for. So, research the timings on this option.

Yes at present the only real issue I can foresee is the fact that I am not considered resident in Thailand.

That said I can show that in the past 6 years I have spent considerably more time in Thailand than the UK by way of exit and entry stamps as well as 60 day extensions of stay etc,I also hold a Thai bank account,although I'm unsure if either of these will have significant impact.

The bottom line is how can one be considered a resident of Thailand if the relationship with the child's mother has in this instance ended and we have left the once family home with my returning to the UK to live and work while my ex girlfriend has rehoused elsewhere with my daughter.

Is considered being a resident of Thailand really enough to halt the process of applying for a British passport ?

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Edited March 12, 2016 by surat04

[stoneyboy]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Excellent that's the sort of positive information I am looking for.

Thanks.

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Excellent that's the sort of positive information I am looking for.

Thanks.

Proof of address was my son's entry in the house registration blue book. Officially translated.

[stoneyboy]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

[sunnyjim5]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

[stoneyboy]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

So from the picture provided it looks like it says house registry,which I assume is Tabien Ban of which my daughter is obviously registered on already in Thailand.

And the focus is on the applicant being a resident not me the father.

Would that be the case.

Edited March 12, 2016 by stoneyboy

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

So from the picture provided it looks like it says house registry,which I assume is Tabien Ban of which my daughter is obviously registered on already in Thailand.

And the focus is on the applicant being a resident not me the father.

Would that be the case.

It was when I applied for my son.

[stoneyboy]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

So from the picture provided it looks like it says house registry,which I assume is Tabien Ban of which my daughter is obviously registered on already in Thailand.

And the focus is on the applicant being a resident not me the father.

Would that be the case.

It was when I applied for my son.

Thanks I also note that it says that for a first time application of a British passport that only the bio page of both parents passport was required as a photo copy not every page which I think is the case for a renewal.

Would this be correct ?

[surat04]

I have just got my son his first UK passport. I am not resident in Thailand, I was in the UK nine months last year.

Was you asked to supply an address in Thailand if so what did say ?

I wasn't asked to prove my address.

Really ?

All UK passport applications require documentary evidence (proof) of address.

HMG provide a list of documentation which can be used as "proof" of address which if not provided will result in a passport not being issued until such evidence is provided.

So from the picture provided it looks like it says house registry,which I assume is Tabien Ban of which my daughter is obviously registered on already in Thailand.

And the focus is on the applicant being a resident not me the father.

Would that be the case.

It was when I applied for my son.

Thanks I also note that it says that for a first time application of a British passport that only the bio page of both parents passport was required as a photo copy not every page which I think is the case for a renewal.

Would this be correct ?

Yes, only the bio page required.

[bobrussell]

If your son is named on the birth certificate he is almost guaranteed to be a British citizen by right!

Your residential status should be pretty close to irrelevant but they do need proof of address to ensure the passport is sent to the right address.

Seems as if things are being made complicated by some posters but he is already British and the only requirement is to get the documentary evidence to allow travel. The document is a passport!

It may be the case that it is not correct to issue a visa for anyone with the right to British citizenship as it is not legal for the authorities to limit access to the UK. A visit visa limits the stay to six months.

A father, under normal circumstances, can move his child round the world freely but it is quite appropriate to expect the other parent to give permission to travel. This minimises the risks of a child being 'abducted' by one parent against the wishes of the other.

With a shiny new British passport and consent from the mother, I fail to see any complications.

[surat04]

Your residential status should be pretty close to irrelevant but they do need proof of address to ensure the passport is sent to the right address

New UK passports are not posted. You have to collect then in Bangkok.

[brewsterbudgen]

If your son is named on the birth certificate he is almost guaranteed to be a British citizen by right!

Your residential status should be pretty close to irrelevant but they do need proof of address to ensure the passport is sent to the right address.

Seems as if things are being made complicated by some posters but he is already British and the only requirement is to get the documentary evidence to allow travel. The document is a passport!

Not quite as simple as that, as the father needs to show he is "British otherwise than by descent". And in Thailand I believe the passport has to be collected from VFS.

[bobrussell]

I am not saying it is as simple as turning up with a birth certificate and clearly collection rather than posting seems to be required.

None of this changes the fact that the child is likely to qualify for a British passport. Not particularly complicated and no different to any other parent applying on behalf of a child born in Thailand.

I have two nephews born in Bangkok and getting passports was only a matter of taking the right paperwork to the right place at the right time and waiting for it to be processed. The arrangements are a bit different to those a few years ago but the general rules are the same.

Travel is then a matter of routine especially when the other parent has given permission.

Edited March 12, 2016 by bobrussell

[Richard W]

I have two nephews born in Bangkok and getting passports was only a matter of taking the right paperwork to the right place at the right time and waiting for it to be processed. The arrangements are a bit different to those a few years ago but the general rules are the same.

A major complication is that the father lives in Britain, but mother and daughter live in Thailand. (Also note that we are assuming that the father is British and was born in the UK.) Ideally it would be the mother who applied for the British passport for the daughter. I have grave doubts as to the mother's ability to cope with a British passport application unaided. Remember, British citizens don't have a right to a British passport. If their guardians can't jump through the hoops, then no passport.