7 Killed in explosion at SCB Park Plaza in Bangkok

[Tywais]

I did see another report saying that the contractors where installing a pyrogen fire extinguisher system (http://www.pyrogen.com/Pyroleaflet.pdf) and that they accidentally triggered the canister(s).

I also read that some are complaining about the exits being locked, remember that this is a bank and locked doors are the basic of security. And closed doors are used to prevent fire from spreading to other compartments/rooms in buildings, ships and so on.

Pyrogen does make sense as Halon is banned due to the environmental impact, though that may not mean much for Thailand. It also would produce a substantial cloud that would look like smoke. Pyrogen is around 3 times more effective then Halon. Use of either in a bank system with its data center servers would be a necessity over CO2 or sprinkler system which would destroy them. We had Halon installed in our computer room where I worked in the states. It was a small research system but still ran around $250,000 USD for the computer equipment.

[pennine]

Can anyone advise on the precautions to take to ensure that a LPG cylinder in a house basement or pump room is safe?

[Shawn0001]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

With your experience in firefighting, have you ever heard of people being killed in this way before? Do you consider it to be normal that so much halon was released that people suffocated following the breakage of a pipe? I would have thought that there would be a regulator to only release a certain amount of argon as to prevent people being killed who did not find the exit fast enough, and that there would be a valve that closed should the gas be releasing faster than normal as in the case of a broken pipe.

[Bobotie]

Can anyone advise on the precautions to take to ensure that a LPG cylinder in a house basement or pump room is safe?

First precaution is try not to have it in a house basement or other room where gas can build up, check your regulator and hoses frequently visually and do a soap test on the connections to ensure no leaks

[webfact]

Police to charge contractor in SCB Park fire suppression system improvement incident

BANGKOK: -- Metropolitan police are prepared to charge a contracting firm for carelessness that caused deaths and injuries to others after eight workers died and seven others injured from suffocation at the Siam Commercial Bank head office at SCB Park last night.

Acting metropolitan police commissioner Pol Lt Gen Sanit Mahathavorn said this morning that the police were prepared to file charge against the contractor for causing deaths and injuries to others for carelessness.

He said forensic police were inspecting the area this morning to look into the actual cause of the tragedy.

Earlier Siam Commercial Bank issued a statement regarding an incident at its headoffice’s basement room saying it might be caused by faulty improvement of its fire suppression system by the contractor that accidentally triggered the fire suppression system to work.

It said there was neither fire nor explosion in the incident and the victims succumbed to death from suffocation.

The incident happened at about 9.30 pm Sunday night.

It said there were neither damages to the building and the documents kept in the room.

It said the contractor was employed to improve the fire fighting system at the basement room where important papers and documents were kept.

But the workers might accidentally trigger the pyrogen fire fighting system to function, emitting the FM200 waterless fire suppressants that could stop fire fast.

The gas will replace oxygen, making the area without oxygen, but carbon dioxide.

This was reason why workers suffocated, it said.

Earlier last night the Erawan Emergency Medical Center forged five people suffocated to death from inhaling toxic gas when an extinguisher exploded at the underground floor of Siam Commercial Bank headquarters on Ratchadapisek Road on Sunday night.

Three others who also inhaled the toxic gas were declared dead at hospitals.

Seven others who were at the scene still have received treatment in the hospitals.

According to fire fighting industry, pyrogen is an inert non-toxic solid that remains stable until electrically or thermally activated, where upon it produces a gas-like extinguishing aerosol. The aerosol attacks the fire chemically and physically, giving virtual instant extinguishment & preventing re-ignition, and in certain instances,
explosions.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/154950


-- Thai PBS 2016-03-14

[Travel2003]

strange this exploded at 10.00pm .... was someone working on it at that time ?

there needs to be more safety adopted around gas cylinders and the likes .....

it's not rocket science but it is rocket fuel !!

Well, dear Steven.

There are people who work outside regular office hours.

Maybe working on safety issues is done outside working hours in other countries as well?

Check it out.

;-)

Oh, and is this freakin facebook, packed with juveniles clicking LIKE on each and every post???

[Bobotie]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

With your experience in firefighting, have you ever heard of people being killed in this way before? Do you consider it to be normal that so much halon was released that people suffocated following the breakage of a pipe? I would have thought that there would be a regulator to only release a certain amount of argon as to prevent people being killed who did not find the exit fast enough, and that there would be a valve that closed should the gas be releasing faster than normal as in the case of a broken pipe.

Use google...a woman killed in a new york bank in the record room in a similar manner to this one, she accidently set off the halon system

[Basil B]

Seems the Thai papers are reporting the death from suffocation and not explosion.

Not explosion of hydrogen tanks, but leaks from tank(s) of the Halon system is the cause of death.

Hydrogen has nothing to do with Halon fire suppression systems, and Halon itself is inert.

"Halon is a liquefied, compressed gas that stops the spread of fire by chemically disrupting combustion. Halon 1211 (a liquid streaming agent) and Halon 1301 (a gaseous flooding agent) leave no residue and are remarkably safe for human exposure. Halon is rated for class "B" (flammable liquids) and "C" (electrical fires), but it is also effective on class "A" (common combustibles) fires. Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 are low-toxicity, chemically stable compounds that, as long as they remain contained in cylinders, are easily recyclable".

Perhaps there will be technical investigation?

technical investigation

I think we already have a good idea as to the cause... and the Thais will never have a investigation if the outcome makes them look stupid.

[Thongkorn]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

So does it not become a narcotic in confined spaces.

[Basil B]

Use google...a woman killed in a new york bank in the record room in a similar manner to this one, she accidently set off the halon system

Banks, to hell with safety... security comes first.

[Shawn0001]

Can anyone advise on the precautions to take to ensure that a LPG cylinder in a house basement or pump room is safe?

LPG sinks, you want ventilation holes at ground level for the pump house, in the basement is scary, consider moving it or at least get a gas leak alarm.

[Bobotie]

Can anyone advise on the precautions to take to ensure that a LPG cylinder in a house basement or pump room is safe?

LPG sinks, you want ventilation holes at ground level for the pump house, in the basement is scary, consider moving it or at least get a gas leak alarm.

And which "gas leak alarm" would you recomend..?

[Broken Record]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/13/marines-exposed-halon-gas-training-accident

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7718156.stm

Accidents happen, it's not just a Thai thing.

[Shawn0001]

Can anyone advise on the precautions to take to ensure that a LPG cylinder in a house basement or pump room is safe?

LPG sinks, you want ventilation holes at ground level for the pump house, in the basement is scary, consider moving it or at least get a gas leak alarm.

And which "gas leak alarm" would you recomend..?

Wasn't it you recommending Google for this type of thing? I think Honeywell are a good manufacturer for this type of thing, the HF500LPG is very good as it can be wired to a solenoid and so it can shut off the gas as well as sounding an alarm.

http://www.carbonmonoxide.co.uk/liquefied-petroleum-gas

[borisloosebrain]

RIP

[kannot]

From working with many Thais Ive found them " not careful" at all at work in fact many are totally oblivious to "what happens next" when doing anything.

[rachaeljanerobinson]

They should not have been using Halon at all. It's a very old fashioned and went out of use 20 years ago.

Halon is a greenhouse gas, is toxic to humans and is no longer used for fire suppression. Anything which displaces the oxygen will kill anyone there. It's banned as a fire suppressant now because of its greenhouse effects and toxicity.

The usual one now is called Firesafe-200 (there are others) and it's not a gas, its a very fine powder and it's extremely effective and non-toxic. It sucks the fire out of the atmosphere but does not remove or displace oxygen and it's completely survivable. It's the same kind of fire suppressant used in aircraft when there's an engine fire.

It's very negligent to continue to use Halon in any fire suppression system. Even water is more preferable.

[mango66]

Exits are rarely managed well.

That the article mentions people had difficulty finding exits or exiting in time is not surprising.

So many stories of exits (lack of) being a significant factor in tragedies the world over... here at home, we are not special.

Not to hijack the story, but last night ...

I was in Gateway mall (again). I parked in the garage on level MA. There are MA and MR as well as M levels. I wont try to understand the logic but am grateful they marked them with something different on each floor.

I wanted to enter the mall on the ground floor. I saw I could walk the long distance to use the service elevator or go down the stairwell marked EXIT nearby. I inquired and was instructed by the friendly uniformed guard on the MA level to use the exit stair well to walk down to the ground floor. I did so and found the door was locked. Being locked in the exit stairwell and nowhere lower to go, I walked up a level. Door was locked. Going up another level, door was locked. Going up to where I started, I found the door locked but knocking on it was lucky to find the same guard opening it for me. He explained that they were usually locked but he was hopeful it was possible I could go down the exit (EMERGENCY EXIT) and find the door open.

2 things in conclusion: Gateway mall and that medical mistake building across soi 42 are some of the worst designed building space, counter intuitive to access and egress, ugly, and confirmed safety hazards in my experience.

Thai guards have a hopeful outlook and think positively.

emergency and fire exits to be locket !

That's Thai safety understanding -

no oxygen can come in to fuel the fire !!

POOR works ! RIP !

[Bobotie]

They should not have been using Halon at all. It's a very old fashioned and went out of use 20 years ago.

Halon is a greenhouse gas, is toxic to humans and is no longer used for fire suppression. Anything which displaces the oxygen will kill anyone there. It's banned as a fire suppressant now because of its greenhouse effects and toxicity.

The usual one now is called Firesafe-200 (there are others) and it's not a gas, its a very fine powder and it's extremely effective and non-toxic. It sucks the fire out of the atmosphere but does not remove or displace oxygen and it's completely survivable. It's the same kind of fire suppressant used in aircraft when there's an engine fire.

It's very negligent to continue to use Halon in any fire suppression system. Even water is more preferable.

They werent it was a pyrogen system..so guess that shoots to sh@t the rest of your lecture...maybe try reading previous posts

[taony]

So if I am in this room trying to find some document and fire breaks out, I am dead? And not from the fire! Could be just a small fire on the other side of the room that triggers the system and we're all dead? That's what it seems like from the PBS article. Why no provision that there might be people around and they need more than a minute to get out? Or might not even be rushing out because it the fire isn't necessarily a raging inferno?

[oyster]

In fact nearly every household or business has a potential bomb inside in the form of a cooking gas tank.

Never mind the stocks of shops selling the gas or the modes if transport.

Guys you NEVER have a gas cylinder inside, outside preferably near a drain, the gas is heavy and flows like a liquid. Once escaped it just pools around waiting for alight.

Edited March 14, 2016 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Condolences to the families. Hopefully this wasn't part of a coordinated terror attack also striking Turkey and Cote d'Iviore

"..... caused by chemical reaction after workers of a contractor accidentally struck the chemical-based fire extinguishing system as they were moving carpet into the building."

[crazydrummerpauly]

From working with many Thais Ive found them " not careful" at all at work in fact many are totally oblivious to "what happens next" when doing anything.

Yep, and not just at work.

[Chicog]

They should not have been using Halon at all. It's a very old fashioned and went out of use 20 years ago.

Halon is a greenhouse gas, is toxic to humans and is no longer used for fire suppression. Anything which displaces the oxygen will kill anyone there. It's banned as a fire suppressant now because of its greenhouse effects and toxicity.

The usual one now is called Firesafe-200 (there are others) and it's not a gas, its a very fine powder and it's extremely effective and non-toxic. It sucks the fire out of the atmosphere but does not remove or displace oxygen and it's completely survivable. It's the same kind of fire suppressant used in aircraft when there's an engine fire.

It's very negligent to continue to use Halon in any fire suppression system. Even water is more preferable.

They werent it was a pyrogen system..so guess that shoots to sh@t the rest of your lecture...maybe try reading previous posts

Reading between the lines, is it not possible that they were upgrading from Halon to the more modern Pyrogen?

Either way, an accident of this kind in Thailand does not surprise me one bit.

When compensation and/or punishment amounts to probably a few thousand dollars, why would anyone really give a $hit about safety?

[dcutman]

But the workers might accidentally trigger the pyrogen fire fighting system to function, emitting the FM200 waterless fire suppressants that could stop fire fast.
The gas will replace oxygen, making the area without oxygen, but carbon dioxide.
This was reason why workers suffocated, it said.

With over 100,000 installations worldwide of this system using FM200. Apparently these were the first deaths directly attributed to this fire suppressant that is specifically designed for occupied spaces because it does not deplete oxygen.

DUPONT (the makers) might just have something to say about this.

http://www.gielle.it/adv/index-en.php?camp=fm200&suppression=fire-suppression-systems-fm200&gclid=CMzSw8fWv8sCFc-FaAodHakJWQ

[Bobotie]

But the workers might accidentally trigger the pyrogen fire fighting system to function, emitting the FM200 waterless fire suppressants that could stop fire fast.

The gas will replace oxygen, making the area without oxygen, but carbon dioxide.

This was reason why workers suffocated, it said.

With over 100,000 installations worldwide of this system using FM200. Apparently these were the first deaths directly attributed to this fire suppressant that is specifically designed for occupied spaces because it does not deplete oxygen.

DUPONT (the makers) might just have something to say about this.

http://www.gielle.it/adv/index-en.php?camp=fm200&suppression=fire-suppression-systems-fm200&gclid=CMzSw8fWv8sCFc-FaAodHakJWQ

Go and read DOWS own MSDS, in high concentrations suffocation is possible and in case of accidential release, SCBA is recommended in the area...so nice try but no cigar...its all a function of the FM-200 concentration in the space, the article however is incorrect stating it replace oxygen...it doesnt specifcally at operational concentrations

Therefore could these people suffocated from FM-200 inhalation ? Yes if the concentration of FM-200 was high enough

Edited March 14, 2016 by Bobotie

[Bobotie]

They should not have been using Halon at all. It's a very old fashioned and went out of use 20 years ago.

Halon is a greenhouse gas, is toxic to humans and is no longer used for fire suppression. Anything which displaces the oxygen will kill anyone there. It's banned as a fire suppressant now because of its greenhouse effects and toxicity.

The usual one now is called Firesafe-200 (there are others) and it's not a gas, its a very fine powder and it's extremely effective and non-toxic. It sucks the fire out of the atmosphere but does not remove or displace oxygen and it's completely survivable. It's the same kind of fire suppressant used in aircraft when there's an engine fire.

It's very negligent to continue to use Halon in any fire suppression system. Even water is more preferable.

They werent it was a pyrogen system..so guess that shoots to sh@t the rest of your lecture...maybe try reading previous posts

Reading between the lines, is it not possible that they were upgrading from Halon to the more modern Pyrogen?

Either way, an accident of this kind in Thailand does not surprise me one bit.

When compensation and/or punishment amounts to probably a few thousand dollars, why would anyone really give a $hit about safety?

Your contradicting yourself, if they didnt give a sh&t about safety why would they be upgrading the system then ?

[swerver]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

Careless workers sounds about correct in addition to don’t know nothing reporting by blasting it all over the world about a Hydrogen tank exploding. Today’s Hydrogen tanks are pretty safe, not like the steel Hydrogen tanks from years ago which killed a relative who experimented with a Hydrogen fueled internal combustion engine, some 70-years ago.

In my last job which included firefighting instruction I recall receiving a Bulletin that the use of HALON was being outlawed and all HALON systems the Halon to be evacuated (not just blown off into the atmosphere but evacuated into gas cylinders for later appropriate disposal) and the systems to be recharged with another fire smothering by taking away the oxygen in the air gas. Of course that was in the real world, some twenty years later I see HALON still being used in, you said it, THAILAND. When taking a good look at the firefighting bottles you can see that the Halon in the bottles as of recent is supplied by a company in Great Britain. So in the Western World it is outlawed then just sale it to the third world, same as they western world sales their out of date medicines to the third world.

LOL in LOS

[diehard60]

strange this exploded at 10.00pm .... was someone working on it at that time ?

there needs to be more safety adopted around gas cylinders and the likes .....

it's not rocket science but it is rocket fuel !!

Yo dude! the safety is there but this is Thailand and they do not follow safety regulation at all.

[dcutman]

But the workers might accidentally trigger the pyrogen fire fighting system to function, emitting the FM200 waterless fire suppressants that could stop fire fast.

The gas will replace oxygen, making the area without oxygen, but carbon dioxide.

This was reason why workers suffocated, it said.

With over 100,000 installations worldwide of this system using FM200. Apparently these were the first deaths directly attributed to this fire suppressant that is specifically designed for occupied spaces because it does not deplete oxygen.

DUPONT (the makers) might just have something to say about this.

http://www.gielle.it/adv/index-en.php?camp=fm200&suppression=fire-suppression-systems-fm200&gclid=CMzSw8fWv8sCFc-FaAodHakJWQ

Go and read DOWS own MSDS, in high concentrations suffocation is possible and in case of accidential release, SCBA is recommended in the area...so nice try but no cigar...its all a function of the FM-200 concentration in the space, the article however is incorrect stating it replace oxygen...it doesnt specifcally at operational concentrations

Therefore could these people suffocated from FM-200 inhalation ? Yes if the concentration of FM-200 was high enough

Yes an if somebody filled my bedroom with pillows while I was sleeping I could also suffocate. You are correct, if, the company installed a system in a 50m3 room that was designed for a 1000m3 room.

I will still assume DUPONT (manufacture) is still going to have something to say about this bank spokesperson blaming the product on these deaths.

Maybe in the future. If you reply to a post I made and want t argue it, could you argue something that I posted. Thanks

Edited March 14, 2016 by dcutman