Brit. Murders in Thailand

[luke000]

My last Thai gf admitted to killing her Swedish husband.

The Thai authorities recorded his death as a RTA (hit and run), which is what the Swedish government accepted.

Have you told the Police about this ?

[HooHaa]

British deaths overseas in 2013-2014, as compiled by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Thailand is the second most dangerous place, after Spain. (Source cited below.)

Spain - 856

USA - 125

Thailand - 362

France - 346

Greece - 160

United Arab Emirates - 75

Cyprus - 157

Australia - 72

India - 89

Germany - 146

Turkey - 75

China - 66

Philippines - 82

Pakistan - 21

Portugal - 131

Egypt - 49

Canada - 32

Switzerland - 173

Italy - 45

Jamaica - 23

Source: FCO

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3086453/The-country-highest-proportion-British-deaths-Philippines-cost-17-000-repatriate-body.html#ixzz42pRl0Vqc

Do you not think that it is telling that the highest death (not murder) counts are in 2 of the most popular counties for brits and to tour and retire in?

15 million visited spain in 2014

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-sees-record-65-mn-tourist-visits-2014-141027289.html

though 900,000 some odd brits visited thailand in 2014, so the ratios are definitely skewed.

[MaeJoMTB]

My last Thai gf admitted to killing her Swedish husband.

The Thai authorities recorded his death as a RTA (hit and run), which is what the Swedish government accepted.

Have you told the Police about this ?

Why would I do that?

As the Thais say, not my family, not my business.

[sawadee1947]

That's amazing. So Brits should visit Pakistan........ very safe indeed

[chiang mai]

Do you not think that it is telling that the highest death (not murder) counts are in 2 of the most popular counties for brits and to tour and retire in?

15 million visited spain in 2014

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-sees-record-65-mn-tourist-visits-2014-141027289.html

though 900,000 some odd brits visited thailand in 2014, so the ratios are definitely skewed.

Some were indeed very odd!

[isanbirder]

Posters have provided two sets of figures with some degree of acceptability. These figures are not, however, linked to the number of people who visit these countries (tourists) or go to live there (mainly retirees).

You will all have noticed (but I don't think have commented on) the large number of murdered Brits in Tunisia, which refers to one incident, well known to us all. This shows how a single incident can skew the figures.

The rest of this thread is pure guesswork..... on everybody's part.

[chiang mai]

Posters have provided two sets of figures with some degree of acceptability. These figures are not, however, linked to the number of people who visit these countries (tourists) or go to live there (mainly retirees).

You will all have noticed (but I don't think have commented on) the large number of murdered Brits in Tunisia, which refers to one incident, well known to us all. This shows how a single incident can skew the figures.

The rest of this thread is pure guesswork..... on everybody's part.

Well, TAT and other sources provide us with the 900,000 British visitors to Thailand each year.

UK Government gives us 50,000 British expats living in Thailand.

UK government also provides us with 362 British deaths in Thailand last year, from all causes.

British Embassy deputy head of mission gives us what the British expat murder rate is in Thailand.

A UK FOI from UK Government gives us the number of British murders in Thailand.

Which of these is giving you difficulty.

BTW Tunisia and any other country apart from Thailand is off topic and outside of scope, as is any cause of death other than murder.

Edited March 15, 2016 by chiang mai

[GuestHouse]

Well, TAT and other sources provide us with the 900,000 British visitors to Thailand each year.

UK Government gives us 50,000 British expats living in Thailand.

UK government also provides us with 362 British deaths in Thailand last year, from all causes.

British Embassy deputy head of mission gives us what the British expat murder rate is in Thailand.

A UK FOI from UK Government gives us the number of British murders in Thailand.

Which of these is giving you difficulty.

BTW Tunisia and any other country apart from Thailand is off topic and outside of scope, as is any cause of death other than murder.

Hint 'see bold text above'.

The British Government do not investigate all cases of death in Thailand and are reliant upon data from the Thai authorities, what they say is based upon what they are told and, given the nature of international relations, may be influenced by what they are instructed.

[chiang mai]

Well, TAT and other sources provide us with the 900,000 British visitors to Thailand each year.

UK Government gives us 50,000 British expats living in Thailand.

UK government also provides us with 362 British deaths in Thailand last year, from all causes.

British Embassy deputy head of mission gives us what the British expat murder rate is in Thailand.

A UK FOI from UK Government gives us the number of British murders in Thailand.

Which of these is giving you difficulty.

BTW Tunisia and any other country apart from Thailand is off topic and outside of scope, as is any cause of death other than murder.

Hint 'see bold text above'.

The British Government do not investigate all cases of death in Thailand and are reliant upon data from the Thai authorities, what they say is based upon what they are told and, given the nature of international relations, may be influenced by what they are instructed.

I have to set aside the idea of influence and international relations otherwise it is impossible to establish a baseline of anything involving governments anywhere. And whilst that last statement will no doubt please many and be seen as an everyday fact of life, I don't agree that it represents the status quo. Yes I agree there are periods of time when information is suppressed and indeed needs to be suppressed but I do not believe it is constant over long period of time. Put another way, if Thailand were murder city number one for British visitors/residents, that fact would emerge into the public domain at some point and it hasn't.

As far as UK government not investigating all deaths: a fair point but it seems to me, as with the above, that after a period of time and after seeing enough bodies returned to the UK for disposal, where an autopsy or embalming was performed, coroners would note the discrepancies between the Thai autopsy results and what was seen in the UK and such information would enter the public domain - it hasn't and the tabloid press would certainly be keen to air it publicly if it existed. Note: not all bodies are cremated here in Thailand.

The above is not to suggest that government figures are 100% accurate, without doubt there will be a percentage of errors, of cover ups and of incorrect causes of death since this happens everywhere. For example, recently in the UK a north London gangster was found by police to have died of a heart attack in his garden, six days later an autopsy found he had been shot six times!

The question is, what is that margin of error or whatever you want to term it, is it 10%, some would have us believe it's 500% or more, personally I suspect 20% may well cover all possibilities but even if we said 100%, that is still less than 10 Brits. murdered each year out of 50k residents and 900k visitors.

[isanbirder]

Posters have provided two sets of figures with some degree of acceptability. These figures are not, however, linked to the number of people who visit these countries (tourists) or go to live there (mainly retirees).

You will all have noticed (but I don't think have commented on) the large number of murdered Brits in Tunisia, which refers to one incident, well known to us all. This shows how a single incident can skew the figures.

The rest of this thread is pure guesswork..... on everybody's part.

Well, TAT and other sources provide us with the 900,000 British visitors to Thailand each year.

UK Government gives us 50,000 British expats living in Thailand.

UK government also provides us with 362 British deaths in Thailand last year, from all causes.

British Embassy deputy head of mission gives us what the British expat murder rate is in Thailand.

A UK FOI from UK Government gives us the number of British murders in Thailand.

Which of these is giving you difficulty.

BTW Tunisia and any other country apart from Thailand is off topic and outside of scope, as is any cause of death other than murder.

Most of it, actually, Chiangmai!

The 362 British deaths are not split between tourists and retirees...... which would be significant because the two groups would generally face different risks.

I simply don't believe the two figures for murder rates, because they have to be based on local figures, and I doubt whether Thai authorities , especially in the more rural areas, bother all that much.

I mentioned Tunisia because it gave a clear example of how figures, especially small ones like the first list posted, can be skewed.

[chiang mai]

Posters have provided two sets of figures with some degree of acceptability. These figures are not, however, linked to the number of people who visit these countries (tourists) or go to live there (mainly retirees).

You will all have noticed (but I don't think have commented on) the large number of murdered Brits in Tunisia, which refers to one incident, well known to us all. This shows how a single incident can skew the figures.

The rest of this thread is pure guesswork..... on everybody's part.

Well, TAT and other sources provide us with the 900,000 British visitors to Thailand each year.

UK Government gives us 50,000 British expats living in Thailand.

UK government also provides us with 362 British deaths in Thailand last year, from all causes.

British Embassy deputy head of mission gives us what the British expat murder rate is in Thailand.

A UK FOI from UK Government gives us the number of British murders in Thailand.

Which of these is giving you difficulty.

BTW Tunisia and any other country apart from Thailand is off topic and outside of scope, as is any cause of death other than murder.

Most of it, actually, Chiangmai!

The 362 British deaths are not split between tourists and retirees...... which would be significant because the two groups would generally face different risks.

I simply don't believe the two figures for murder rates, because they have to be based on local figures, and I doubt whether Thai authorities , especially in the more rural areas, bother all that much.

I mentioned Tunisia because it gave a clear example of how figures, especially small ones like the first list posted, can be skewed.

I can easily agree there are two different murder rates for Brits in Thailand and that they are very different, the expat rate being the same if not higher than the tourist rate which is very very small. As you say, the risks are totally different.

As for splitting the the deaths between residents and retirees, I presume you intended to mean that, I am almost certain that the vast majority of deaths are attributable to the resident expat group, sadly no breakdown exists that I have seen although the earlier "farang deaths" link goes some way to supporting that.

[evadgib]

A suitably worded FoI request from the OP would answer his enquiry. By suitably worded I mean something like this:

"How many Brits died in Thailand as a result of Murder, Manslaughter, unexplained injuries or unnatural causes excluding traffic accidents, between <date1> and <date2>?"

HTH

[brling]

I am not sure why the OP decided to start this topic but it really is a no brainer.

But I am sure:, the OP, and all the other Thai apologists dont want any negative said about Thailand, so they try to justify murders, road accidents, corruption, crime, etc, etc.

[luke000]

I am not sure why the OP decided to start this topic but it really is a no brainer.

But I am sure:, the OP, and all the other Thai apologists dont want any negative said about Thailand, so they try to justify murders, road accidents, corruption, crime, etc, etc.

I believe that the allegation about there being many foreigners murdered in Thailand by Thais to be a false accussation

[evadgib]

Many are murdered in Thailand full stop!

Edited March 15, 2016 by evadgib

[luke000]

Many are murdered in Thailand full stop!

^ Yep, that proves it, May as well close this thread now

[chiang mai]

Since nobody challenged the earlier post it looks like nobody is really interested in this subject so we may as well close it down.

2.7 million British VISITS over three years is of course multiplied by the average duration of stay which is 7 days, giving 189 million British tourist days or 512,329 British tourist years, plus 50,000 (x 3 years) resident expats normalizes the numbers to equal 662,329 British tourist years spent in Thailand.

So if the murder rate for all British visitors to Thailand was the same as the British resident expat in Thailand, 5 per 100k, this would result in 35.5 British murders per year. I don't think it does, the official rate is less than 5. But if does, the cover/negligence is possibly to the tune of an additional 31 murders, not impossible to believe but improbable in my book.

I am going to file for a Freedom of Information request on this subject and when I get a response I'll reopen the thread, the FOI will ask how many of the 362 deaths in 2015 were murder, how many were from old age/natural causes and how many resident expats were murdered. In the meantime I'm, going to go with the idea that the behavior of resident Brits is very different and more dangerous than that of visitors and that the vast majority of murders occur in the resident group.

Mods. , at your leisure.

[NanLaew]

When it comes to deaths, the older 'resident' UK demographic don't generally do tubing, white water rafting, bungy jumping, zip-lining, rock climbing, island trips on overloaded and unsafe cruise boats, jet ski's, water ski's, or rent motorbikes they have no experience of driving, do drugs, go on bar crawls, indulge in methamphetamines, smoke ganja or go on booze and mushroom 'rites of passage' trips on southern Thai islands. They do tend to have medical conditions, mostly undetected until the head gasket blows.

So what DO the serial coffin dodgers do in LOS that makes them higher risk than the young, dumb and full of cum? Your inference is that older Brits in relationships are more likely to be murdered than the young and the bulletproof?

Edited March 16, 2016 by NanLaew

[luke000]

Before you close it, the older 'resident' UK demographic don't generally do tubing, white water rafting, bungy jumping, zip-lining, rock climbing, island trips on overloaded and unsafe cruise boats, jet ski's, water ski's, or rent motorbikes they have no experience of driving, do drugs, go on bar crawls, indulge in methamphetamines, smoke ganja or go on booze and mushroom 'rites of passage' trips on southern Thai islands.

So what DO the serial coffin dodgers do in LOS that makes them higher risk than the young, dumb and full of cum?

They expire naturally .

[whiterussian]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/82108-thai-wife-given-life-sentence-for-murdering-british-ex-husband/?p=1758392

Out of date, but the stats seem to relate. Don't know if the stats are better now. Like Randy Quad's 'Star Whackers'... are there 'Farang Whackers' targeting wives/girlfriends with cash cow husbands...

Yet, the following year, Charnaud was dead. His fate at the hands of his ex-wife provides a tragic glimpse of an altogether darker aspect of the so-called "Land of Smiles". Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000. In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals, according to the FCO. These murders include a sexually motivated killing of a young British woman; a Thai police officer executing two backpackers in a crowded street; shootings, throat cuttings and two cases of other Westerners murdering UK nationals; and, more pertinently, several cases of Thai wives or their family members slaying British husbands.

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

Edited March 16, 2016 by whiterussian

[luke000]

In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals,

That works out at four UK Nationals murdered in Thailand every year , which isnt excessive

[whiterussian]

That works out at four UK Nationals murdered in Thailand every year , which isnt excessive

Need the condo skydiving club stats, plus blood tests of departed UK pensioners... even the Thais are scared of poisoning to get at the family 'treasure'

Can only hope times are changing. The Thai 'backdoor man' is of course the classic...

Edited March 16, 2016 by whiterussian

[chiang mai]

When it comes to deaths, the older 'resident' UK demographic don't generally do tubing, white water rafting, bungy jumping, zip-lining, rock climbing, island trips on overloaded and unsafe cruise boats, jet ski's, water ski's, or rent motorbikes they have no experience of driving, do drugs, go on bar crawls, indulge in methamphetamines, smoke ganja or go on booze and mushroom 'rites of passage' trips on southern Thai islands. They do tend to have medical conditions, mostly undetected until the head gasket blows.

So what DO the serial coffin dodgers do in LOS that makes them higher risk than the young, dumb and full of cum? Your inference is that older Brits in relationships are more likely to be murdered than the young and the bulletproof?

Indeed. As stated earlier, older resident expats are more likely to have closer relationships with more Thai's, have more assets such as cars, houses etc., be in business here, have more money in country than a tourist etc and therefore become targets and/or at risk of family/acquaintance aggression. Tourists who spend their times in hotels and on the beaches are more likely to have accidents in Thailand, drowning, RTA's resulting from inexperience and the alcohol holiday factor I would think. The tourist is only a target for the opportunist or the scammer, they seem unlikely targets of extortion, family upset, relationship difficulties et al., the two groups are almost diametrically opposites in their behavior patterns and risk profiles.

[chiang mai]

That works out at four UK Nationals murdered in Thailand every year , which isnt excessive

Need the condo skydiving club stats, plus blood tests of departed UK pensioners... even the Thais are scared of poisoning to get at the family 'treasure'

Can only hope times are changing. The Thai 'backdoor man' is of course the classic...

See the earlier post regarding balcony railing heights, that answers most of the related questions.

[whiterussian]

See the earlier post regarding balcony railing heights, that answers most of the related questions.

Hardly anyone believes that IMO. It's a standard pub joke about the condo skydiving clubs in Pattaya etc...

I do share your opinion that the overwhelming majority of Thai-farang relationships don't and wont end in murder though. The idea of a ménage à trois with a Thai guy is horrifying to most though... and surprisingly common especially iif the lady is a hooker looker. Even the village Thais are all into bed-hopping, gambling, or scheming! Village gossip at the stupidity of others never ends. As said before I hope 'the new generations' are different, I think they might be (seems that a good chunk of the village got wiped out with HIV from the local Burmese brothel a few decades ago, so they've learnt that lesson...)

Edited March 16, 2016 by whiterussian

[chiang mai]

See the earlier post regarding balcony railing heights, that answers most of the related questions.

Hardly anyone believes that IMO. It's a standard pub joke about the condo skydiving clubs in Pattaya etc...

I do share your opinion that the overwhelming majority of Thai-farang relationships don't and wont end in murder though. The idea of a ménage à trois with a Thai guy is horrifying to most though... and surprisingly common especially iif the lady is a hooker looker. Even the village Thais are all into bed-hopping, gambling, or scheming! Village gossip at the stupidity of others never ends. As said before I hope 'the new generations' are different, I think they might be (seems that a good chunk of the village got wiped out with HIV from the local Burmese brothel a few decades ago, so they've learnt that lesson...)

Have you ever wondered why balcony falls as a means of suicide among westerners is pretty much unique to Thailand!

[whiterussian]

Have you ever wondered why balcony falls as a means of suicide among westerners is pretty much unique to Thailand!

Maybe you're right, hardly ever been in condos here or anywhere for that matter. There was a nice Brit I knew who died and the Thai BF moved in a week or so later. Strangely the guy who told me he suspected foul play ended up skydiving out of a BK hotel with his wife. Myself, I've avoided the death thing, but run into the gun/implied murder thing... happily she had to marry the backdoor man, so shes stuck with the pyscho now, or he'll do his Thai male thing. somnamnah

[chiang mai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/82108-thai-wife-given-life-sentence-for-murdering-british-ex-husband/?p=1758392

Out of date, but the stats seem to relate. Don't know if the stats are better now. Like Randy Quad's 'Star Whackers'... are there 'Farang Whackers' targeting wives/girlfriends with cash cow husbands...

Yet, the following year, Charnaud was dead. His fate at the hands of his ex-wife provides a tragic glimpse of an altogether darker aspect of the so-called "Land of Smiles". Thailand has one of the world's highest per-capita murder rates – when the UN last counted it in 2000, it stood at 5,140 per year, though the annual total is now speculated to be more than 6,000. In the years 2003 to 2006, 17 of these victims were UK nationals, according to the FCO. These murders include a sexually motivated killing of a young British woman; a Thai police officer executing two backpackers in a crowded street; shootings, throat cuttings and two cases of other Westerners murdering UK nationals; and, more pertinently, several cases of Thai wives or their family members slaying British husbands.

On average, about 50 civilian UK nationals are murdered around the world each year (excluding terrorist attacks). This means that almost 10 per cent of all murders of Britons abroad are committed in Thailand – a chilling figure, given that Thailand comprises only 0.6 per cent of all foreign travel from UK shores.

The quote is from a book/review of a book, books are written to sell in order to make money, the book is fiction, just like the The Sun.

The numbers quoted regarding murder and number of killings is woefully wrong, as discussed previously.

All fiction, no fact.

[evadgib]

Many are murdered in Thailand full stop!

^ Yep, that proves it, May as well close this thread now

My point being that non Thai Asians or other foreigners account for some of the murders each year but it is the host nation, regardless of where you are in the world, that takes pole position.

Edited March 16, 2016 by evadgib

[chiang mai]

Many are murdered in Thailand full stop!

^ Yep, that proves it, May as well close this thread now

My point being that non Thai Asians or other foreigners account for some of the murders each year but it is the host nation, regardless of where you are in the world, that takes pole position.

The topic is British people murdered in Thailand, no more, no less!