New Zealand votes to keep its current flag

[webfact]

New Zealand votes to keep current flag in nationwide poll

WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — New Zealand has voted to keep its current flag by 57 percent to 43 percent in a nationwide poll.

More than 2 million people voted in the ballot to decide whether to keep the British Union Jack on their flag or replace it with a silver fern. The results were announced Thursday.

The current flag has been the national symbol since 1902. It was up against a new design that was winnowed from more than 10,000 entries submitted by the public.

Those advocating change argued the flag was a relic of the nation's colonial past and too similar to Australia's flag. Those favoring the status quo said the new design was uninspiring or an attempt by Prime Minister John Key to create a legacy.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-03-24

[BookMan]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

[Gsxrnz]

I for one am very happy the old flag has been retained and that sanity has prevailed. The time is not yet right for a chnge and the alternative flag was nothing but a tourist tea towel souvenir.

Ironically, in both referendums, the question was never actually asked "do you want to change the flag?". A true balls up of a process but I'm sure next time they'll do a better job and have a better process to select a flag more befitting Godzone country.

Bad luck John Key - your name won't be in the history books as the prat that stole our flag.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Gsxrnz

[SgtRock]

Taxpayers face $25 million bill even if old flag stays

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11350245

Hope it was worth it.

I am also happy to see the old flag retained.

[sirineou]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

[BookMan]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

The flag comes down to National identity and I for one would like to see the Union Jack removed

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

[sirineou]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

The flag comes down to National identity and I for one would like to see the Union Jack removed

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

Sorry I was being so short sighted

[WitawatWatawit]

Sad day. I've never, as best I can recall, ever identified myself by the current flag whenever and wherever I've traveled. It's always been the silver fern. But it's also not so sad as the alternatives were hardly acceptable, although I've developed more of a fondness for the koru of late.

[Jingthing]

Yeah the other choices weren't great. The Union Jack is OK but the bigger problem is the lack of distinction from Australia.

[BookMan]

Yeah the other choices weren't great. The Union Jack is OK but the bigger problem is the lack of distinction from Australia.

yep... very similar

Until New Zealand is assimilated as a new Australian territory, it can be confusing

[WitawatWatawit]

Yeah the other choices weren't great. The Union Jack is OK but the bigger problem is the lack of distinction from Australia.

yep... very similar

Until New Zealand is assimilated as a new Australian territory, it can be confusing

Excuse me? Did we not offer to make Australia an autonomous state?

Some people just don't know when they are well off!

[Katipo]

I for one am very happy the old flag has been retained and that sanity has prevailed. The time is not yet right for a chnge and the alternative flag was nothing but a tourist tea towel souvenir.

Ironically, in both referendums, the question was never actually asked "do you want to change the flag?". A true balls up of a process but I'm sure next time they'll do a better job and have a better process to select a flag more befitting Godzone country.

Bad luck John Key - your name won't be in the history books as the prat that stole our flag.

It's interesting you see things this way, as I see them quite differently. While I am no fan of John key, I refused to let my opinion be based on politics.

I think we need a change, i quite liked the new design, and so had no problem if it changed. That the country voted to keep the old one, that's fine by me too.

I also don't think the referendum was a balls up. Choosing a potential flag before going to the final vote was a sensible move. it gave people the chance to see what they would be voting for.

[Cuchulainn]

If that's what the people want.

[grumpyoldman]

I was at the war cemetery in Kanchanaburi earlier this year and many of the Kiwi graves had the N.Z. flag by them. More than any other nationalities really.

They looked good, distinguished. You could tell those people cared. Poignant.

Not a Kiwi so my opinion insignificant but I am happy they kept it as is.

[Chicog]

Congratulations to my commonwealth brothers and sisters.

[Gsxrnz]

I for one am very happy the old flag has been retained and that sanity has prevailed. The time is not yet right for a chnge and the alternative flag was nothing but a tourist tea towel souvenir.

Ironically, in both referendums, the question was never actually asked "do you want to change the flag?". A true balls up of a process but I'm sure next time they'll do a better job and have a better process to select a flag more befitting Godzone country.

Bad luck John Key - your name won't be in the history books as the prat that stole our flag.

It's interesting you see things this way, as I see them quite differently. While I am no fan of John key, I refused to let my opinion be based on politics.

I think we need a change, i quite liked the new design, and so had no problem if it changed. That the country voted to keep the old one, that's fine by me too.

I also don't think the referendum was a balls up. Choosing a potential flag before going to the final vote was a sensible move. it gave people the chance to see what they would be voting for.

You misinterpreted my reference to John Key. My opinion is certainly not politically based. I vote national and like his style of government and policies. However i think his ego got the better of him in this situation and he wanted to go down in the history books - his Swan Song, if you like.

Regarding the referendum process - the public were never asked "do you want to change the NZ Flag". They made a basic mistake in not asking this question either initially, or as part of the forst referendum. They were simply asked to choose an alternative flag, and then vote to change to that flag or retain the status quo.

The outcome now reveals that (at least by implication), 57% did not want to change to the alternative flag. But did 57% not want tgo change the flag at all? We'll never know because thay made a basic mistake in their design of the referenda.

Or......were they designed that way on purpose in an effort to achieve Key's preferred outcome?

[godden]

happy to hear that in this ever changing pc world

[Katipo]

I for one am very happy the old flag has been retained and that sanity has prevailed. The time is not yet right for a chnge and the alternative flag was nothing but a tourist tea towel souvenir.

Ironically, in both referendums, the question was never actually asked "do you want to change the flag?". A true balls up of a process but I'm sure next time they'll do a better job and have a better process to select a flag more befitting Godzone country.

Bad luck John Key - your name won't be in the history books as the prat that stole our flag.

It's interesting you see things this way, as I see them quite differently. While I am no fan of John key, I refused to let my opinion be based on politics.

I think we need a change, i quite liked the new design, and so had no problem if it changed. That the country voted to keep the old one, that's fine by me too.

I also don't think the referendum was a balls up. Choosing a potential flag before going to the final vote was a sensible move. it gave people the chance to see what they would be voting for.

You misinterpreted my reference to John Key. My opinion is certainly not politically based. I vote national and like his style of government and policies. However i think his ego got the better of him in this situation and he wanted to go down in the history books - his Swan Song, if you like.

Regarding the referendum process - the public were never asked "do you want to change the NZ Flag". They made a basic mistake in not asking this question either initially, or as part of the forst referendum. They were simply asked to choose an alternative flag, and then vote to change to that flag or retain the status quo.

The outcome now reveals that (at least by implication), 57% did not want to change to the alternative flag. But did 57% not want tgo change the flag at all? We'll never know because thay made a basic mistake in their design of the referenda.

Or......were they designed that way on purpose in an effort to achieve Key's preferred outcome?

My apologies if I misinterpreted your reference.

I understand your point re the 57% and how they handled the referendum, but I think letting people choose the flag first was a good move. It meant people knew what they were voting for. In my opinion, people would be less likely to vote for change if they don't know what the change is going to be.

In this day and age, I think changing the flag without first becoming a republic is going to be very difficult. There are too many groups who will put their own interests before that of the country.

I personally liked the alternate flag. Even now I can't think of a design that would have been better..... except maybe Laser Kiwi. We really missed the boat on that one.

[soc]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

The flag comes down to National identity and I for one would like to see the Union Jack removed

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

l would prefer that the Union Jack stays.

[Saradoc1972]

Pity, I liked that silver fern. Well, anyway both the Union Jack and what the old flag are both way more appealing and creative than most other countries' 2 or 3 stripes design.

[Kiwiken]

Yeah the other choices weren't great. The Union Jack is OK but the bigger problem is the lack of distinction from Australia.

yep... very similar

Until New Zealand is assimilated as a new Australian territory, it can be confusing

It is more likely NZ will go to war with Australia rather than assimilate. Until they stop treating us like Mexicans are treated by the US. The disdain for Australia is very deep in NZ now

[Robm579]

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

<deleted> ... The population od NZ is 4 million... ,

Less than half will be tax payers...

That's a much more relevant calculation ... To assess the waste of tax payers money...

Almost as stupid as brownlees insistence to build a massive stadium in central Christchurch ... Which will become a moment to his largess and a drain on rate payers to support it... Heck they never even half filled the previous one... Ever

I'm happy to be a kiwi... But delighted I don't live there anymore ...

Go AB's

[Linzz]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

The flag comes down to National identity and I for one would like to see the Union Jack removed

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

Better things to do with the money

[Robm579]

BTW is is not currently represented by a Union Jack... But a defaced red ensign... Similar to that of the 'west island'...

[Linzz]

Sad day. I've never, as best I can recall, ever identified myself by the current flag whenever and wherever I've traveled. It's always been the silver fern. But it's also not so sad as the alternatives were hardly acceptable, although I've developed more of a fondness for the koru of late.

I've always identified myself as a kiwi, like the bird not an athlete

[TPI]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

yes sure with all the tax money the Australian government has and dont know what to do do with, why not put it to good use .

I know people are sitting around ,right now thinking,

if only we had a different flag

The flag comes down to National identity and I for one would like to see the Union Jack removed

If it cost $50 million that is $2 per person...insignificant cost

l would prefer that the Union Jack stays.

Our brothers in the shaky isles have shown good sense (IMHO), their flag is quite distinctive and is obviously not the Oz flag! This crazy idea that things have to "change" in order for society to be better seems to be a product of higher education? I think the idea that "I've changed therefore so should everything else" is implanted about graduation day, " let ME guide you to a bright and NEW day" is the mantra. I wish they would hurry up and get old thereby coming to their senses!!

[Ulic]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

Every survey from the start said this wound be the result. Why waste the money.

If the survey indication showed any possibility of the citizens wanting a new

flag by all means, go through the process. Otherwise it is a waste of taxpayer money.

[BookMan]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

Every survey from the start said this wound be the result. Why waste the money.

If the survey indication showed any possibility of the citizens wanting a new

flag by all means, go through the process. Otherwise it is a waste of taxpayer money.

That's the point of a referendum and voting though... so everyone can choose to have their say. Not just 1087 people randomly surveyed..

You suggest elections are decided by a survey?

[Kiwiken]

At least they went through the process

Would like to see Australia do the same

Every survey from the start said this wound be the result. Why waste the money.

If the survey indication showed any possibility of the citizens wanting a new

flag by all means, go through the process. Otherwise it is a waste of taxpayer money.

That's the point of a referendum and voting though... so everyone can choose to have their say. Not just 1087 people randomly surveyed..

You suggest elections are decided by a survey?

The point was every poll before the first referendum said Kiwis did not want to change the flag. Even though we have schools in desperate need of funding, Health needs. Housing crisis caused by 18,ooo houses lost in chch in 2011, plus Auckland burgeoning population. Our Government despite knowing we needed money on more urgent things chose to waste 26 million NZ$ (US$17) on a set of referenda most of us did not want. All to hide their corruption and Nepotism. Polling here is very good. The flag debate was a red herring to hide National ineptness and to big note John Key.

[gomangosteen]

26 million...might buy 20 houses in a middle class Auckland suburb?

It's less than a small Ministry's policy advice fees.

MSD spends over $75 million on such "advice" each year, a flag referendum's worth every 4 months

in the context of the annual expenditure of the New Zealand Government it is a miniscule amount.

The 2015 Budget sets out $88.9 billion in Government spending for the coming financial year. The money spent on the flag referendum will account for about 0.0029 per cent of this budget.

So what else does $26 million get the tax-payer? Here are a few examples of similar expenses in the 2015/16 Budget:

*$26.8 million for development of Central City anchor projects for the Christchurch rebuild

*$27 million for the Crown's contribution to regional pest management

*$27.1 million for policy advice to the Ministry of Primary Industries

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/74003348/flag-referendum-where-does-the-26-million-go