My Trees Look Sick

[thedi]

Hello farmers

About 20 month ago I planted 10 trees as protection against the evening sun around my house. I bought them already grown up. They came as just trunks without leaves and only a little bit of roots. At first they had problems to adjust with the earth here. But after about a year I thought they where doing well. They had not to many leaves, but what there was as leaves looked healthy.

Now (since about 10 days) some of them look sick. For example the middle one of this group of three:

An other one in front of the house has more leaves. It grows on filled up earth which was not salty like the original rice field. About 2 weeks ago it started to make a lot of new leaves. While many of them look good, other look sick:

What is wrong? Is there something I can do?

Thanks for any hints

Thedi [email protected]

[chownah]

I had a similar experience with a luk ta kob tree I transplanted. It looked fine and was growning new foliage and then gradually died. when I dug it out it had termites eating the trunk where it was underground. I think this was because it was damaged when I dug it up. If this is what has happened I don't think there is anything you could do but I don't know for sure.....also....it could be something else too.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

Thedi

Am I correct that these dead and dying leaves are appearing only at the end of the branches - as in the leaves that are furthest from the trunk that represent the most recent growth.

Correct?

Second question - are there any black, grey or rusty blotches on any of the leaves?

Third question - is there any damage to the bark - is it dry and/or peeling back in any places?

And last question - just where about in Thailand are you - coastal, inland, highlow, lowlad?

.... we'll try and eliminate the options one by one?

Tim

[thedi]

.... we'll try and eliminate the options one by one

hello Tim,

1. Only new leaves are dying. Old leaves are not dying.

2. There are bloches on older leaves, not on the one that are dying:

Only two of the trees have leaves with blotches now, but other had them before.

From the two trees with the most dying new leaves, one has a about 10% of old leaves with blotches, the other one has just dying leaves, no bloches.

3. from my 10 trees, only one has a damaged bark. This one has some dying leaves but is not one of the two who worthend in the last 10 days. It had bloches before, but not now:

All other trees have some damages which result from the transport 20 month ago. All barks are dry.

4. I leave in Manchakiri 45 km southwest of Khon Kaen.

Many thanks for your interest in my problem.

Thedi [email protected]

[Maizefarmer]

The leaf damage you have described and shown is not what I was expecting - so its not what I thought it could be, and to be honest - I'm out of my depth now.

But I know a man who almost certainly will: a Thai neighbour who is an arborist for the Loei Muncipality. I will show him all this tomorrow morning and get back to you in the afternoon/early evening

Tim

[thedi]

Thank you Tim,

The trees will surely last that long

The local people here can not help me at all. Some tell me to try fertiliser, other recommend insecticides and most think its not worth to try anything: this kind of trees will never have any fruits anyway, so why does the farang care?

I will wait until tomorrow.

Regards Thedi [email protected]

[teletiger]

That bark damage looks like termites.

Regards

[MiG16]

my little plant is dying too

but i have absolutely no knowledge about or how to describe

thing is the leaves have been slowly wilting away 2 or 3 at a time. but today i showed up at work and almost all leaves (20 or so!!) had turned yellow plus even when they hadnt turned yellow they were all dropping downwards for weeks

[Maizefarmer]

Thailand has an abundance of Nematodes - and while many do no damage at all to plants, there are speicies in Thailand which do - by attacking the roots - and which are ususally fatal to the plant over time.

The symptoms are often seen as leaf damage and quite often on one side of the plant initialy only - an indication that the root structure feeding that side of the plant is where the nematodes have had a go at the roots. They are normally fatal to the plant over time.

There are also funguses and bacteria in the soil which manifest themselves through the same symptoms.

Why the plant can appear healthy for months if not years before any problem starts to show is simply because they were not present in the exact place where the plant was planted, but over time as the root structure developed and expanded outwards and away from the plant it encounted a root nematode, or paratistic bacteria or fungus - some species of which lie dormant for years just waiting for a live root to appear on which they can start feeding

A guess off the top of my head is that what we have here is a soil bourne problem whatever it is(like a nematode, fungus or bacteria) - which explains why the trees loang side are not suffering the same symptoms.

The only practical solution is to dig up as much of the soil as possible and replace it. Sometimes diggin up as much soil as possible and incorporating a certain percentage of lime with it has proved to be successful.

Anyway - should have an answer tomorrow.

Tim

[teletiger]

Last year we had a sweet tammarind tree, where termites had gotten underneath the bark.(very similar to your picture) We hosed the trunk with water (fairly high pressure) for 3 evenings running.

They left They also left a scarred trunk which has mostly healed now. The tree is also showing a healthy crop for this year too. Any bark that looks like it has been "splashed" with mud is termites.

Another time they attacked the corn sacks (jute?) that we used to cover our dragonfruit posts. They didn't seem to affect the dragonfruit. But taking no chances we doused them with Foodan?? sounded like that anyway. Gone the next day.

The pictures of the old leaves you showed, look like regular insect damage and not likely to affect a native tree too much. I would be inclined to expose a few shallow roots and investigate. good luck.

Regards

[thedi]

There are small black things under the most affected tree. My wife is sure it is insect or larvae shit. It is visible only where there are tiles. I saw them before but suspected them to be seeds (the trees are blooming). Here are some pics (you would have to click them to see any details):

Whatever it is, it is dry - not moist at all.

Regards

Thedi [email protected]

[Maizefarmer]

THEDI - insect crap - 100% certain about that - though what type I wouldn't have a clue.

[thedi]

THEDI - insect crap - 100% certain about that - though what type I wouldn't have a clue.

Thank you Maizefarmer, thats a relief. If it is only insects that eat the leaves of this trees, that will not kill them. Once the insects are eaten by the many birds around here, the trees can grow on.

Thank you for your help - I will sleep better tonight

Regards Thedi [email protected]

[chownah]

Thedi,

Not wanting to spoil your sleep tonight but just because you have one type of insect does not rule out the possibility of their being other problems with the trees. Also, if it is insect shit then you should be able to find the insect and identify it so that you can assess the possible outcome of the infestation.

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

I've got quite a few of the same tree's (can't remember the name) and they all have the same thing, I don't think it's much to worry about.

Oh just showed the wife the pic, she said "yea they all have that no need to worry"....so they will probaly be dead tomorrow

[Maizefarmer]

THEDI

The results you have been waiting for -

I am advised that you have 2 problems both are fungus:

RUST FUNGUS – the raised pustules on the leaf are classic early RF sympotoms

Exactly which type he needs to check against a reference chart/book in his office – which he will do tomorrow but it is almost certainly the Chaconia Ingae type of rust fungus.

There is no treatment pur say but the addition of lime to the soil and th eapplication of a fungacide to a watering regime over a periof of a few months (say once 2or 3 times a month) over the dry season may help.

No - it is not likely to spread to the other trees.

Yes - its nothing rare or uncommon - many instances in Thailand and all over Asia

The second one could be one of about 6 different types - and again he will be in his office tomorrow and will cross ref the pictures with some academic referances, sufice to say he is not to concerned about the patches of dry leaves (from what he thinks its most likely to be - and not to get your hopes up or down, I am keeping my mouth shut on that till tomorrow)

Regards

Tim

[JungleBiker]

In case you are interested I'm sure the Latin name of your trees are is Alstonia scholaris, the Thai name is “teen phet” (duck’s feet) trees.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstonia

I once heard that they are used in Thailand to make pencils – the wood is soft and easily shaped. I have lots in my own garden. I once had the same problem as you but the problem eventually cleared by itself. I am sure the trees won’t die of this problem. I think it is an insect that feeds on the new leaves – try looking on the new leaves before they completely die to see if the insects are there – I think they will have already abandoned the dead leaves. The lumps (galls) on the older leaves is a different insect and nothing much to worry about.

The proper name of the chemical Teletiger mentioned is Furudan (or Furadan?) - small dark purple granules that can be sprinkled on the soil around the tree and then watered in; most agricultural shops sell it; it is used for termites and may also control the other insect problems mentioned above because it is a systemic insecticide – it will travel from the roots up to the leaves of the trees where insects will ingest the chemical and die.

[Maizefarmer]

JB - I am advised that the nodles on the leave are a species/type of rust fungus. That is like saying you have a type od stone or grass in your back yard - as there are some 5000 different type of Rust fungus. In this case allegedly it is the Chaconia Ingae type.

However, I quite happy for the record to be put striaght if this is wrong.

AS far as the tree goes - yes, I concurr with you, it is "Teen Phet" (that is also what I have been told it is - by an arborist who cuts them down on a regular basis - as they can grow to as much as metres in Thailand and make good lighteningconductors!!).

It's uses (besides firewood - but it smells awful if not dry when burnt!) are pencils, the bark has commercial pharmacuitacal uses, not least of which apparently is research into the resin or juice in the wood as a component for ulcer medications and gastric disorders (been carried out by Schering Plough in the UK - who now have a 2 rai plantation been grown in the North East of Thailand specificaly for the above reserach.)

Other than for pencils, the wood is also used for furniture, because its easy to work with and retains this shape well.

So there Thedi! - if it dies you won't be short of uses for it.

Note its height potential - 50 metres!! - were you told that when you purchase it, and were you told the roots can lift paved driveways, porches and other construction!! It'll be a big tree one day.

Tim

[JungleBiker]

THEDI

The results you have been waiting for -

I am advised that you have 2 problems both are fungus:

RUST FUNGUS – the raised pustules on the leaf are classic early RF sympotoms

I am not a gambling man but if I were I would be willing to bet a lot of money that those are not rust pustules but are galls caused by insects.

Rust pustules would be much much smaller and would be tiny lumps of fungus not lumps of leaf. Further more they would be rust coloured (reddish-brown) not green (hence the reason rust is called rust).

[HenryB]

Thank you Tim,

The trees will surely last that long

The local people here can not help me at all. Some tell me to try fertiliser, other recommend insecticides and most think its not worth to try anything: this kind of trees will never have any fruits anyway, so why does the farang care?

I will wait until tomorrow.

Regards Thedi [email protected]

Your trees need love.

Tonight hung all of them for 10 minutes do this for 2 weeks.

Hope the police don't see you.

Edited November 1, 2006 by HenryB

[JungleBiker]

Your trees need love.

Tonight hung all of them for 10 minutes do this for 2 weeks.

Hope the police don't see you.

If you love someone it's better to hug them not hung them.

[thedi]

The proper name of the chemical Teletiger mentioned is Furudan (or Furadan?) - small dark purple granules that can be sprinkled on the soil around the tree and then watered in; most agricultural shops sell it; it is used for termites and may also control the other insect problems mentioned above because it is a systemic insecticide – it will travel from the roots up to the leaves of the trees where insects will ingest the chemical and die.

I found it without problem in the local agricultural shop: Furadan 50 Baht a kilo. My gardener will apply it tomorrow morning. In the shop they advised me to not to mix it with water but to disperse it, about a soon full around each tree, and then water it in. I should also take care that it will not go into the pond, because it is toxic for fish.

Regards Thedi [email protected]

PS: while Furadan and love for the trees are applied by my gardener; huging is reserved exclusively for the boss here - but I never tried it with trees...

[JungleBiker]

I found it without problem in the local agricultural shop: Furadan 50 Baht a kilo. My gardener will apply it tomorrow morning. In the shop they advised me to not to mix it with water but to disperse it, about a soon full around each tree, and then water it in. I should also take care that it will not go into the pond, because it is toxic for fish.

Yes I also said to apply it to the soil and then water it in. This way of application is much easier and safer than spraying. It is also toxic for humans - not just insects and fish! Also be careful if you are taking water from a nearby borehole.