Are European kids smarter than Thai kids?

[GanDoonToonPet]

What is meant by "smarter",is it IQ or level of knowledge attained through education?

[quandow]

IQ is not based on religion, culture or race. Its based on education

Actually, it's not. It's based primarily on critical thinking. One could argue that, as Thai culture stifles critical thinking, IQ scores would tend to be lower. Again, they're not any less capable, but the exercise of critical thinking has been trained out of them.

[mesterm]

You can't have educated serfs & peasants, they won't put up with the shit from their lords & masters for ever & sooner or later there would be a very bloody revolution....

You mean they'd rush in and demand for the new iPhone? Yeah maybe.

[TuskegeeBen]

Journalist writing about educational standards & language proficiency who can't spell 'rote'.

Nice one!

What country did you go to school?

"Rote learning is a memorization technique based on repetition. The idea is that one will be able to quickly recall the meaning of the material the more one repeats it. Some of the alternatives to rote learning include meaningful learning, associative learning, and active learning."

Your contribution to the thread, by providing the correct spelling, and definition of the word "Rote" is most appreciated.

The OP probably speaks English as a second language. A little generousity toward other posters, on your part, costs you absolutely nothing.

Apparently, you did get "the discernible" drift of the Op's meaning, so the point of your put-down of the OP's spelling proficiency, was to what avail? Do you feel better about yourself, now? I certainly hope so, for your future sake.

Here's a news-flash, just for you, and your constituentcy: "you really need to get off that high-horse you're riding on this forum (of all places to do such), and grow-up there, sir!"

Now, have a nice person's day, for a change. Cheers, and friendly regards

You should have read the original !

"Frozen by her precocious command of my native language, I just stared in disbelief. After a few seconds she held up the plate again and smiled sweetly,"

Did you spell check your post ?

Typical "know-it-al" bloke. Any excuse for your poor behavior, is better than none at all, eh? If you're so high_and_mighty, then why are you posting to this platform level, to begin with? You were out-of-line, sir. Period! Now own it, then move progressively along, by contributing a positive "thought", pertinent to the topic thread, instead.

Again, get off the typical high-horse. No one, on the forum is impressed, except probably yourself? Ok? Done! Whew!

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

Although It is much more difficult to succeed when of mixed race here it is not impossible and some have reached senior positions such as Mechai Viravaidya who was a deputy minister under Prem and Minister for Tourism under Anand.

Mixed race Thai/Chinese seem to have no problems.

FYI ~ Mixed race Thai/Chinese usually enjoy an above average economic status, than do the average majority Thai. As a result, that demographic group does not enroll their children in the Government School System.

Thus, they (mixed race Thai/Chinese) do not fit anywhere into the equation of this particular topic thread, in the first instance. Cheers

Bird McIntyre

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

Journalist writing about educational standards & language proficiency who can't spell 'rote'.

Nice one!

What country did you go to school?

"Rote learning is a memorization technique based on repetition. The idea is that one will be able to quickly recall the meaning of the material the more one repeats it. Some of the alternatives to rote learning include meaningful learning, associative learning, and active learning."

Your contribution to the thread, by providing the correct spelling, and definition of the word "Rote" is most appreciated.

The OP probably speaks English as a second language. A little generousity toward other posters, on your part, costs you absolutely nothing.

Apparently, you did get "the discernible" drift of the Op's meaning, so the point of your put-down of the OP's spelling proficiency, was to what avail? Do you feel better about yourself, now? I certainly hope so, for your future sake.

Here's a news-flash, just for you, and your constituentcy: "you really need to get off that high-horse you're riding on this forum (of all places to do such), and grow-up there, sir!"

Now, have a nice person's day, for a change. Cheers, and friendly regards

You should have read the original !

"Frozen by her precocious command of my native language, I just stared in disbelief. After a few seconds she held up the plate again and smiled sweetly,"

Did you spell check your post ?

I have actually met Thais, possessing the ability to speak better, more discenible English (in Thailand), than do_many of the so-called native-language speakers, in the UK, anymore. That is a "food-for-thought" phenomenon, defying all possible belief.

And, many of that foregoing Thai farang genre, are regular posters to the TVF.

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[NeverSure]

The writter is X-Special forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Sent from my c64

The writter writer is X-Special ex-Special forces Forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Brilliant. And you would be from... ???

[TuskegeeBen]

The writter is X-Special forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Sent from my c64

The writter writer is X-Special ex-Special forces Forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Brilliant. And you would be from... ???

Probably from one, of the eleven Bible Belt, southern U.S. states, guaranteed.

[fiddlehead]

My son is 10.
I quiz him often on the times tables.
He usually always gets them all correct now.
His friends his age, who go to Thai schools rarely get them right.
They start counting on their fingers or just look at me blankly.

He goes to Thai school, English program but when he was in 2nd grade (when kids normally learn the times tables), he was in Montessori school (international school)

So, yes, I believe he is a bit smarter in math and definitely English.
But the Thai kids are much better at reading and writing Thai.

Will he catch up?
I hope so.
I think so.
Why?
Because I will quiz him and have my (Thai) wife quiz him and make sure he can read and write)

Do Thai parents do the same?
Who knows.

Do they care?
I hope so.

[TuskegeeBen]

My son is 10.

I quiz him often on the times tables.

He usually always gets them all correct now.

His friends his age, who go to Thai schools rarely get them right.

They start counting on their fingers or just look at me blankly.

He goes to Thai school, English program but when he was in 2nd grade (when kids normally learn the times tables), he was in Montessori school (international school)

So, yes, I believe he is a bit smarter in math and definitely English.

But the Thai kids are much better at reading and writing Thai.

Will he catch up?

I hope so.

I think so.

Why?

Because I will quiz him and have my (Thai) wife quiz him and make sure he can read and write)

Do Thai parents do the same?

Who knows.

Do they care?

I hope so.

Lucky, to be born of cross-cultural parents, who can afford to sent your son to private schools.

My observation is that most Thai parents do care, especially about their children's education level, but specifically, and only within the Thai cultural realm, for obvious reasons.

Considering there are no "starving" homeless people, anywhere in Thailand (to the best of my knowledge), then I'd conclude that "the system of things" in Thailandworks_exceptionally well, for the Thai people, over-all.

This observation is confirmed, especially when compared to many societies of the western First World nations. Scandinavia, not withstanding, of course.

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[bobmac10]

I hate to say this,but generally,yes.When i taught at a private school i found that it was the mixed Thai/Ferang kids that excelled,every time.The 100% Russian kids and the Korean kids,did the same.I had two very brilliant Thai/English brothers and a Thai Swedish boy that was way out in front.These kids always were at the top if the class.I taught Prathom 9 to M6.Even in their other classes,such as computer and Thai language.These were the kids that were sent to other schools to visit and give examples of their attributes.and they were assured of university places.

I did my Thai culture course at Mahidol University and during one lunch break i chatted to a lecturer about these children and his conversation amazed me.He told me that the mixed race kids would never be accepted as 100% Thai citizens,no matter what.The reason was that the powers that be would never allow a Mixed race kid would never be allowed to be elected to a government position because his position might lean toward seeing points of view from the Foreigners angle,and if more were elected over the years,this could cause problems for the country.The lecturer said it never happen in the foreseeable future,but one should consider it food for thought.I have to say that it was one point i never even considered.

Yes, to have smarter mixed-race children than their full-Thai counterparts would imply they were above the Thais and thereby loss of face comes into play.

Teachers don't want to have to answer difficult questions in case they can't answer them and there is loss of face again.

The whole education system is a reflection of the Thai culture.

The elite have better education and they have full control over what happens to the rest.

Successive governments from the beginning have perpetuated this.

Everyone in Thailand is either above or below the other on a ranking system and they all instinctively know it.

If you are in the higher echelons, there's no incentive to change things.

It just wouldn't do to have the lower socioeconomic masses getting above their station in life.

That would mean sharing the wealth and opportunities with them.

It's going to take a huge shift and a brave government to allow independent thought in the schools.

[stbkk]

Doesn't matter where or from what nationality children stem from.They all have one thing in common,it's called a brain.

The key is education.In a perfect world where all kids had access to good education,I think no matter the nationality,they would all be playing on a level playing field.

A nice clear reply, which I agree with completely.

My 100% Thai stepson has been going to an expensive international school for many years now, and is a normal, smart, questioning teenager who is virtually bi-lingual. When I ask him to compare his current school with the Thai school he went to for a year or two before the international, he shakes his head and laughs!

The 2 observations I have after over 10 years of working in 3 different high-tech (IT related) environments in Thailand are:

1. Education - Thais who have got their degree abroad are usually much more adept at thinking/logic/problem solving.

2. Culture - The traditional 'kreng jai' issues where respect/deference must be shown to older/more senior/etc. people, irrespective of the quality of their work.

Obviously the above points are GENERALISATIONS, and there have been exceptions (some notable).

Until they start to fix the education system (I saw an article in the Bangkok Post a few months ago that said Thai kids IQ's GO DOWN when they start school, for goodness sake!), Thailand will struggle to advance.

My opinion only, of course. I am sure there will be people who have had different experiences than I have.

[johnatong]

Doesn't matter where or from what nationality children stem from.They all have one thing in common,it's called a brain.

The key is education.In a perfect world where all kids had access to good education,I think no matter the nationality,they would all be playing on a level playing field.

A nice clear reply, which I agree with completely.

My 100% Thai stepson has been going to an expensive international school for many years now, and is a normal, smart, questioning teenager who is virtually bi-lingual. When I ask him to compare his current school with the Thai school he went to for a year or two before the international, he shakes his head and laughs!

The 2 observations I have after over 10 years of working in 3 different high-tech (IT related) environments in Thailand are:

1. Education - Thais who have got their degree abroad are usually much more adept at thinking/logic/problem solving.

2. Culture - The traditional 'kreng jai' issues where respect/deference must be shown to older/more senior/etc. people, irrespective of the quality of their work.

Obviously the above points are GENERALISATIONS, and there have been exceptions (some notable).

Until they start to fix the education system (I saw an article in the Bangkok Post a few months ago that said Thai kids IQ's GO DOWN when they start school, for goodness sake!), Thailand will struggle to advance.

My opinion only, of course. I am sure there will be people who have had different experiences than I have.

You seem to have an incomplete understanding of the term "intelligence quotient" (IQ) but assuming I am wrong please explain how a persons IQ can "go down"?

The link provides a beginners guide to the concept of IQ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient

[KarenBravo]

Maybe read these links. Average Thai IQ is decreasing.

http://www.funeducation.com/News/Kids-IQ-Test-Information/new-survey-shows-worrying-iq-results-for-thailand

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Low-IQ-of-Thai-children-30261437.html

[Fabricus]

My observation is that most Thai parents do care, especially about their children's education level, but specifically, and only within the Thai cultural realm, for obvious reasons.

You really are clueless.

Many middle class families in the deep south have their children educated at international schools in Penang.

A desire for fluency in English takes precedence over cultural issues. It's a desire that spans the far north to the deep south.

[hdkane]

Journalist writing about educational standards & language proficiency who can't spell 'rote'.

Nice one!

What country did you go to school?

"Rote learning is a memorization technique based on repetition. The idea is that one will be able to quickly recall the meaning of the material the more one repeats it. Some of the alternatives to rote learning include meaningful learning, associative learning, and active learning."

Rote is spelled correctly...hmmm...

[TuskegeeBen]

The following remark is a post-script, immediately following post# 53, as follows: "Still a developing country, but developing into WHAT defies logic."

As such, if the writer’s drift is a direct put-down to Thailand, then perhaps the writer needs to get more travel experience, and certainly an ample educational background, prior to posting any further opinions, about Thailand, at all.

Thus, My reply: “All things historically considered, the entire human species is a developing civilization, but developing into WHAT, ……also defies logic”.

Plus, my considered opinion is, "that if the rest of the world, especially the Middle East and Western Hemispheres were as culturally "under-developed" as Thailand, then imagine what peace, and indeed, urban street-life tranquility there would be, on the entire planet". Sigh!

[TuskegeeBen]

Maybe read these links. Average Thai IQ is decreasing.

http://www.funeducation.com/News/Kids-IQ-Test-Information/new-survey-shows-worrying-iq-results-for-thailand

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Low-IQ-of-Thai-children-30261437.html

FYI ~ thanks to you both, for the links. However, read my previous post, and consider this: the global I.Q. (cognitve-cosciousness-levels of the entire human species) leaves much to be desired.

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[hdkane]

The simple answer is that European children are usually smarter than their Thai peers. Over the past few decades, intelligence testing across nations has revealed true and genuine estimates of intelligence, based on nation/geographic region. A very good read and place to start an understanding of this topic is found in the work of Richard Lynn and JP Rushton. Basically, Thai kids have an average estimated IQ of 90, while Central and Western Europeans have an IQ of around 100. This 10 point difference matters significantly, as the ability to make sound decisions reveals itself in the everyday lives of people. People with lower IQs commit more crime, perform less well in school, have more children outside wedlock, sustain more injuries, and make poor choices within a social context. Often, when the public perceives "race" problems, they are actually seeing the evidence of a group's lower average intelligence. National IQ is related positively to wealth and productivity, as well as political unrest. Importantly, the underlying causes for differences in intelligence are largely genetic/biological in origin. Thus, IQ is a stable, reliable, and highly valid trait. There are certainly smart Thais, as well as stupid Europeans. But you are far more likely to encounter a comparatively smart European kid. Another issue is that the European kids here in Thailand are likely not representative of the population of Europe. I'm guessing they are children of fairly smart parents who have professional jobs here in Thailand. This would mean that their IQs are likely above 100, therefore accentuating any observed differences.

The ASEAN community is very diverse intellectually. Chinese people are genuinely much smarter than other Asian groups. If I had to guess, I would think that Thailand stands a very good chance of being exploited by some of their ASEAN partners.

http://www.ttu.ee/public/m/mart-murdvee/EconPsy/2/Lynn_Meisenberg_2010_National_IQs_calculated_and_validated_for_108_nations.pdf

an older study...lots of work has complemented Lynn's findings...but it's an interesting paper, and a very good introduction to an interesting topic...

[KarenBravo]

Here is another possible explanation.

The body diverting energy away from brain development to fight disease.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/30/disease-rife-countries-low-iqs

Edited March 27, 2016 by KarenBravo

[TuskegeeBen]

My observation is that most Thai parents do care, especially about their children's education level, but specifically, and only within the Thai cultural realm, for obvious reasons.

You really are clueless.

Many middle class families in the deep south have their children educated at international schools in Penang.

A desire for fluency in English takes precedence over cultural issues. It's a desire that spans the far north to the deep south.

How right you are, especially since the British began teaching English in Bangkok, on September 30, 1852. Yet, despite the fact that Thailand possesse more "higher" educational institutions, per capita, than all other SEA countries combined, travelers are hard pressed to find a discernibly speaking English Thai person, even at Bangkok International Airport, in 2016.

After 164 years of English teaching programs in Thailand, the realities should be obvious. The vast majority of Thai people are simply not interested. Period!

However, oops! Why do I keep forgetting that, indeed, you, sir. are perpetually one of the main "know-it-alls, about everything", on the TVF. You're right! I'm wrong! Now, are YU happy? Huh?

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[Roomuck]

Who cares about education anyway these days.

If you want to know something you can just google it.

Times have changed.

Life's good.

[TuskegeeBen]

Who cares about education anyway these days.

If you want to know something you can just google it.

Times have changed.

Life's good.

Absolutely, and thank you for the defuse,

[johnatong]

Who cares about education anyway these days.

If you want to know something you can just google it.

Times have changed.

Life's good.

Glad you have such faith in Mr.Google !

How do you sift the reams of rubbish served up by Google from fact ?

[benalibina]

Who cares about education anyway these days.

If you want to know something you can just google it.

Times have changed.

Life's good.

Glad you have such faith in Mr.Google !

How do you sift the reams of rubbish served up by Google from fact ?

Full details of that extraordinary Thai governmentschool school you referred to before.

Thank you very big.

[Asheron]

Yes, european children are generally more intelligent than thai children. One of the reasons is that european children have a much better diet compared to thai children whose diet is "rice with fish sauce, rice with one egg and rice with som tam"... protein is fundamental for children and their cognitive development.

And yes, even adult europeans are generally more intelligent than thais and there is nothing "racist" about it. And no, it's not because IQ tests were developed by "the white devil".

[TuskegeeBen]

My observation is that most Thai parents do care, especially about their children's education level, but specifically, and only within the Thai cultural realm, for obvious reasons.

You really are clueless.

Many middle class families in the deep south have their children educated at international schools in Penang.

A desire for fluency in English takes precedence over cultural issues. It's a desire that spans the far north to the deep south.

How right you are, especially since the British began teaching English in Bangkok, on September 30, 1852. Yet, despite the fact that Thailand possesse more "higher" educational institutions, per capita, than all other SEA countries combined, travelers are hard pressed to find a discernibly speaking English Thai person, even at Bangkok International Airport, in 2016.

After 164 years of English teaching programs in Thailand, the realities should be obvious. The vast majority of Thai people are simply not interested. Period!

However, oops! Why do I keep forgetting that, indeed, you, sir. are perpetually one of the main "know-it-alls, about everything", on the TVF. You're right! I'm wrong! Now, are YU happy? Huh?

In addition, those Thais, who truly desire to possess a "working" knowledge of the English language, manage to do so, exceeding well. So, I.Q. level has absolutely nothing to do with Thais not learning the English language.

I have personally met Thais, who are literally "filthy" rich (even by western standards), yet cannot speak a word of English, or even Chinese for that matter. Those Thai send their children to private secondary boarding schools, and then onto universities in either Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand or Singapore, anymore. Presumably, Mr. Fabricus, of the TVF elite, will label me clueless, regarding those facts, as well,

Edited March 27, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[johnatong]

Yes, european children are generally more intelligent than thai children. One of the reasons is that european children have a much better diet compared to thai children whose diet is "rice with fish sauce, rice with one egg and rice with som tam"... protein is fundamental for children and their cognitive development.

And yes, even adult europeans are generally more intelligent than thais and there is nothing "racist" about it. And no, it's not because IQ tests were developed by "the white devil".

Robust, reputable evidence for that assertion can be found where ?

[Roomuck]

Who cares about education anyway these days.

If you want to know something you can just google it.

Times have changed.

Life's good.

Glad you have such faith in Mr.Google !

How do you sift the reams of rubbish served up by Google from fact ?

I reckon Mr Google knows way more than any teacher.

My dad doesn't need it though, he says my mum knows everything, he just asks her.

[NeverSure]

The writter is X-Special forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Sent from my c64

The writter writer is X-Special ex-Special forces Forces from the US just behind Thailand in education standards.

Brilliant. And you would be from... ???

Probably from one, of the eleven Bible Belt, southern U.S. states, guaranteed.

"Probably from one, (please remove comma) of the eleven Bible Belt, southern Southern U.S. states, States, guaranteed."

And YOU would be from... ??

Are there ANY (incredibly insulting and bigoted) non-Americans on here who can actually write in English?

(You guys asked for it.)

Cheers.

Edited March 27, 2016 by NeverSure